Why MM Stay

[herenow]

In the end it's really about the choices we make and being responsible for those choices. I felt my marriage was worth a second chance. It took time for me to let him back into my life, but I did see a man who was willing to do what it took to rebuild our marriage with what I believe to be a stronger foundation. In turn, I made that same commitment to him and took responsibility for my part in the problems in our marriage. After all, it is OUR marriage.

 

I don't need or expect anyone to believe in my choices, because they are just that, my choices. I do believe that the cheating is all about the MM and no matter who he ends up with, he is that very same man with the very same issues. I truly believe that until the real reason that any MM has an affair is addressed and worked on, anyone who is with him it crazy.

 

and once again, it's Chicken Picatta time! See ya lata!

[openingup]

In response to the OP, I think you've made a very good analogy - work relationships/dynamics mirror romantic ones in many ways. In my experience, MM stay simply because they're looking out for #1 and are following the laws of inertia.

 

Even if they're miserable in the marriage, it's easier to just tune it out and let the status quo reign than have a confrontation in which they stand to lose a good deal of money, their reputation, custody of kids and the enviable situation of having two women at his beck and call.

 

Why leave?

[White Flower]

In response to the OP, I think you've made a very good analogy - work relationships/dynamics mirror romantic ones in many ways. In my experience, MM stay simply because they're looking out for #1 and are following the laws of inertia.

 

Even if they're miserable in the marriage, it's easier to just tune it out and let the status quo reign than have a confrontation in which they stand to lose a good deal of money, their reputation, custody of kids and the enviable situation of having two women at his beck and call.

 

Why leave?

Another good analogy.

[silktricks]

What an odd question! But okay, I'll answer it. They usually aren't directing it at me. It's joked about, usually in a group of 2 or more men, and they're just shooting the breeze, talking about all kinds of "guy" things, making each other laugh. I also tend to read everything I can get my hands on (men or not). It's a common theme almost everywhere I go that's talking about married men.

 

In short, I'm living in the real world.

 

And there's no way I can discern your actual intention in asking me this question. But you can judge me all you want. No skin off my nose.

 

Since you said you here this all the time from married men, I inferred they were talking to you.

 

Why I asked the question - well the thread at that point was mostly about work. Since I have for a long time managed men in a mostly male environment, I tend to think about what is and is not acceptable for discussion at work. The kind of discussion you mentioned could quickly be the basis of a sexual harassment suit at most of the companies where I've been employed - thus the "why would you allow this?" came from a work environment mindset.

 

BTW, most of the women I know complain they don't get enough sex from their husbands, so go figure.

[Lookingforward]

Since you said you here this all the time from married men, I inferred they were talking to you.

 

Why I asked the question - well the thread at that point was mostly about work. Since I have for a long time managed men in a mostly male environment, I tend to think about what is and is not acceptable for discussion at work. The kind of discussion you mentioned could quickly be the basis of a sexual harassment suit at most of the companies where I've been employed - thus the "why would you allow this?" came from a work environment mindset.

 

BTW, most of the women I know complain they don't get enough sex from their husbands, so go figure.

 

NO, the whole point of the thread has been the ANALOGY between work and marriage.....it had nothing at all to do with what was considered appropriate language in the workplace.......... OB never said where she 'heard it said', so it did come across as an odd question to pose

[herenow]

I know that this thread isn't about talk in the work place, but I do have something to ad to that topic.

 

I have heard men talk about a lack of sex in the work place. A good example just happened this week. When talking about the holiday weekend, I heard one man say to another to have a great holiday and something about getting some alone time with his wife (don't remember the exact words), The other guy said (and I do remember these exact words): "I'm married, what do you think the chances are of that happening?" Both guys laughed and moved on. I can only assume this is the kind of talk that OB is referring to.

 

They weren't talking to me, but I was close enough to hear it and I have to say, it made me sad.

[GreenEyedLady]

I have heard men talk about a lack of sex in the work place. A good example just happened this week. When talking about the holiday weekend, I heard one man say to another to have a great holiday and something about getting some alone time with his wife (don't remember the exact words), The other guy said (and I do remember these exact words): "I'm married, what do you think the chances are of that happening?" Both guys laughed and moved on. I can only assume this is the kind of talk that OB is referring to.

 

They weren't talking to me, but I was close enough to hear it and I have to say, it made me sad.

 

That makes me sad, too.

 

What is it about M that kills the passion that people have for each other? I can't believe that people would rather do laundry, run errands, work, than be with their partners. As a single parent previously, I had to do all those things on my own. And I still made time for the man I loved. I do it now, although we share the responsibilities now, and we truly are together most of the time.

 

We were talking today and I said,"We do everything together now." Because we had done grocery shopping and taken him to the doctor and it just seemed like why doesn't everyone do this? We don't spend every waking moment together (and I admit his and my employment make it easy some of the time to be together 24/7) but we spend most of our off time together. I don't want to believe it's because we haven't tied the knot yet. But we will in the future.

 

It seems like so many people are so interested in cultivating other R's (and I include friendships) that they fail to nurture the primary R. And I don't mean this to anyone in particular. It is just an observation of the world, from my experience. Is this failure to nurture just an oversight? Or is it because the parties just aren't into each other anymore?

 

And HN, I really commend you for making your M work. For both of you being responsible for your part in the M and loving each other enough to do the hard work. I see so much bitterness on this board, but I have never seen that from you.

 

M gets so much bad press. It seems like it should get so much better reviews. You get to be with the person you chose to spend the rest of your life with and weather ups and downs and have sex whenever you want. Is there anything better than that?!

 

Unfortunately, oftentimes, it doesn't work out like that. And I guess that is why there is a need for this forum and those like it.

 

I share your sentiments.

 

GEL

[OpenBook]

I know that this thread isn't about talk in the work place, but I do have something to ad to that topic.

 

I have heard men talk about a lack of sex in the work place. A good example just happened this week. When talking about the holiday weekend, I heard one man say to another to have a great holiday and something about getting some alone time with his wife (don't remember the exact words), The other guy said (and I do remember these exact words): "I'm married, what do you think the chances are of that happening?" Both guys laughed and moved on. I can only assume this is the kind of talk that OB is referring to.

 

They weren't talking to me, but I was close enough to hear it and I have to say, it made me sad.

 

Well, you can always sue 'em for making you overhear this "unacceptable discussion in the workplace.":lmao:

[OpenBook]

BTW, most of the women I know complain they don't get enough sex from their husbands, so go figure.

 

I heard one man say to another to have a great holiday and something about getting some alone time with his wife (don't remember the exact words), The other guy said (and I do remember these exact words): "I'm married, what do you think the chances are of that happening?" Both guys laughed and moved on.

 

What is it about M that kills the passion that people have for each other? I can't believe that people would rather do laundry, run errands, work, than be with their partners.

 

... we spend most of our off time together. I don't want to believe it's because we haven't tied the knot yet. But we will in the future.

 

... Is this failure to nurture just an oversight? Or is it because the parties just aren't into each other anymore?

 

... M gets so much bad press. It seems like it should get so much better reviews. You get to be with the person you chose to spend the rest of your life with and weather ups and downs and have sex whenever you want. Is there anything better than that?!

 

Unfortunately, oftentimes, it doesn't work out like that. And I guess that is why there is a need for this forum and those like it.

 

GEL, that is the million-dollar question. I was thinking the exact same thoughts. It seems that the very state of marriage kills desire for each other. Familiarity breeds contempt.

[silktricks]

Well, you can always sue 'em for making you overhear this "unacceptable discussion in the workplace.":lmao:

 

I wish this joke was really just a joke . It's absolutely AMAZING what people will sue about!!

 

 

What is it about M that kills the passion that people have for each other? I can't believe that people would rather do laundry, run errands, work, than be with their partners. As a single parent previously, I had to do all those things on my own. And I still made time for the man I loved. I do it now, although we share the responsibilities now, and we truly are together most of the time.

 

We were talking today and I said,"We do everything together now." Because we had done grocery shopping and taken him to the doctor and it just seemed like why doesn't everyone do this? We don't spend every waking moment together (and I admit his and my employment make it easy some of the time to be together 24/7) but we spend most of our off time together. I don't want to believe it's because we haven't tied the knot yet. But we will in the future.

 

It seems like so many people are so interested in cultivating other R's (and I include friendships) that they fail to nurture the primary R.

 

It is sad. I think you've "hit the nail on the head" with the above bolded statement, though. American society (at least) seems to stress the importance of every relationship except for marriage - the one that's most important of all. Women are told that they are supposed to put their kids first, their old college chums first, their parents first, their jobs first and of course their housework first.. In the end the person in last place is the one who really needs to be in first - their husband.

 

I have no doubt that men are in the same position.

[overandout]

Getting back on topic,

The mm who stay with their wives generally are the ones that don't fall in love with their OW (despite what they tell the OW to keep the sex, free bed and breakfast etc coming).

 

The ones that leave are the ones that genuinely fall in love and aren't cake eaters.

By the way I am excluding exit affairs here where the man is on the way out of the door and then wants to be by himself and "find himself". Find another OW more like.

[Lookingforward]

Getting back on topic,

The mm who stay with their wives generally are the ones that don't fall in love with their OW (despite what they tell the OW to keep the sex, free bed and breakfast etc coming).

 

The ones that leave are the ones that genuinely fall in love and aren't cake eaters.

By the way I am excluding exit affairs here where the man is on the way out of the door and then wants to be by himself and "find himself". Find another OW more like.

 

which wasn't really the 'topic'

- the OP was a refreshing analogy which led to some interesting debate - this is just the same old stuff, and it's amazing how it gets stated like it's set in stone LOL

[overandout]

which wasn't really the 'topic'

- the OP was a refreshing analogy which led to some interesting debate - this is just the same old stuff, and it's amazing how it gets stated like it's set in stone LOL

 

Entitled to my opinion I think.

The people who don't like what I have said are often the OW whose mm is staying put and who continue to kid themselves that he is in love with them and not the wife. LOL

[GreenEyedLady]

Entitled to my opinion I think.

The people who don't like what I have said are often the OW whose mm is staying put and who continue to kid themselves that he is in love with them and not the wife. LOL

 

You are right, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how cliche it may be.

 

Funny that "you" are one of the "XOW" whose MM stayed put and kidded yourself. Or perhaps you just kidded the forum.

 

GEL

[White Flower]

And HN, I really commend you for making your M work. For both of you being responsible for your part in the M and loving each other enough to do the hard work. I see so much bitterness on this board, but I have never seen that from you.

 

M gets so much bad press. It seems like it should get so much better reviews. You get to be with the person you chose to spend the rest of your life with and weather ups and downs and have sex whenever you want. Is there anything better than that?!

 

Unfortunately, oftentimes, it doesn't work out like that. And I guess that is why there is a need for this forum and those like it.

 

I share your sentiments.

 

GEL

I must agree. I have always respected Herenow for the way she handled her marriage and the way she conducts herself here at LS. She is one of the most introspective and non-judgmental BSs (hate to use that label for her now) here. I see her as someone who completely thought everything through, dealt with it, forgave, and continues to understand it in retrospect. A real success story and example of love and hard work.

[bentnotbroken]

WF, some of us do the introspective work and find out we love ourselves more than the liar we were married to. I for one can forgive, but the trust is gone. And I cannot be with someone who not only hurt me(for what ever part I played in the marital issues)but my children also. That's where I draw the line. I have a responsibility to protect them from who ever is out to hurt them. That includes their father and the ow.

 

 

You can't tell my children you love them to their face and then go tell the ow what rotten kids they are because they are like me. That isn't right. What ever issues that I had in the M, I will accept resposibility for and work on so as not to repeat those mistakes. But I truly believe I am better off alone than with someone I will always wonder about if he is a few minutes late, or changes his undies to a new brand.

 

Mr. Messy has never accepted his part in my feelings about his shortcomings in the M. Everything was my fault, because he did everything he possibly could to tell me that he didn't like the way I handled things. Yet, he let me do all the housework,shopping, yard work, auto up keep, child rearing, school activities, sick duty and work a full time job. But I didn't have time to play when he felt like it. And until he realizes that women have needs too and that they have to be nurtured and cared for, he will end up where he is right now, alone.

[Lookingforward]

 

You can't tell my children you love them to their face and then go tell the ow what rotten kids they are because they are like me. That isn't right. What ever issues that I had in the M, I will accept resposibility for and work on so as not to repeat those mistakes. But I truly believe I am better off alone than with someone I will always wonder about if he is a few minutes late, or changes his undies to a new brand.

 

 

 

Dayum BNB, he did that ? Talk about a low life. Sounds like you made the right decision there.

[White Flower]

WF, some of us do the introspective work and find out we love ourselves more than the liar we were married to. I for one can forgive, but the trust is gone. And I cannot be with someone who not only hurt me(for what ever part I played in the marital issues)but my children also. That's where I draw the line. I have a responsibility to protect them from who ever is out to hurt them. That includes their father and the ow.

 

 

You can't tell my children you love them to their face and then go tell the ow what rotten kids they are because they are like me. That isn't right. What ever issues that I had in the M, I will accept resposibility for and work on so as not to repeat those mistakes. But I truly believe I am better off alone than with someone I will always wonder about if he is a few minutes late, or changes his undies to a new brand.

 

Mr. Messy has never accepted his part in my feelings about his shortcomings in the M. Everything was my fault, because he did everything he possibly could to tell me that he didn't like the way I handled things. Yet, he let me do all the housework,shopping, yard work, auto up keep, child rearing, school activities, sick duty and work a full time job. But I didn't have time to play when he felt like it. And until he realizes that women have needs too and that they have to be nurtured and cared for, he will end up where he is right now, alone.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Bent. Your H was a narcissist who never gave you credit for anything. It was never going to work with him.

 

Herenow was blessed in that aspect. Her H realized his shortcomings and did what it took to convince her to let him back and she only did so because he proved himself to her. My compliment to her was mostly due to her graceful way of dealing with OWs and former OWs.

 

You know I'm crazy about you too;)

 

Throughout all of my time at LS you, Bent, have been the one I could imagine my exMM's W's voice to be. He isn't as bad a H as yours so she wouldn't have the need to call him a narcissist, etc, but she would be angry and hurt and threaten to cut his jewels off. I really feel for her, now more than ever, and hope to never hurt her. She never knew about me, but I am sure she was suspicious from time to time and I hate that I took part in that and will be forever sorry.

[White Flower]

You can't tell my children you love them to their face and then go tell the ow what rotten kids they are because they are like me. That isn't right.

Exactly. I just reminded my STBeXH yesterday that if you love your children you will not disparage their parent. I maintain to this day I have painted him in a good light. I guess he thought since he was trying to ruin my rep with the kids that I would be doing the same. He has actually been nicer around me since. Interesting. We'll see for how long.

 

I also told him that our children notice who is always trying to be the bigger person and that is why they respect me more. It must have gotten to him because he's been offering rides and he even cooked dinner tonight. I do have the flu, so I was grateful.

 

Don't say I never said nothing nice about the man, lol.

[overandout]

You are right, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how cliche it may be.

 

Funny that "you" are one of the "XOW" whose MM stayed put and kidded yourself. Or perhaps you just kidded the forum.

 

GEL

 

Yawn, Sometimes cliches are true.

 

I agree that I was duped by my xmm but I saw the light and then he wanted to resume with me. You don't get it.

Just remember that you are now shacked up with a liar even though he had the balls to leave his marriage. Or did you put a gun to his head?

 

Once a liar always a liar so you just remember that when he is delayed at the office.

[OWoman]

Entitled to my opinion I think.

The people who don't like what I have said are often the OW whose mm is staying put and who continue to kid themselves that he is in love with them and not the wife. LOL

 

Mine left. GEL's left. Lyssa's left. Plus some others if you care to read the stories. So no, it's not just the "OWs whose MM is staying put" that find knee-jerk trotting out of stereotypes irksome. Precisely because our realities to not resonate with those tired old cliches we tend to look beyond tabloid tales to real situations and apply our own brains to analyse the findings and develop understandings based on evidence rather than old wives tales.

 

And, for the record, I never got warts from touching frogs, and when the wind changed my face didn't stay like that, either. Sometimes not everything you see on Jerry Springer is a universal truth...

[OWoman]

Yawn, Sometimes cliches are true.

 

And more often they're not. Why else would we have human rights legislation against racial, gender-based and sexual preference prejudice? Or are you one of those who belive that black people are inferior and gay people should be stoned, and women enslaved in their own homes?

 

You don't get it.

 

On the contrary, I think GEL is getting plenty now she's full-time with her SO. I think it's the bitter brigade not getting it - or not getting near enough, or not getting any worth having, at any rate.

 

Once a liar always a liar so you just remember that when he is delayed at the office.

 

You really ought to get out more and stop believing the fairytales you were read as a kid. My father has been happily, faithfully and joyously married to his FOW for decades now. I know countless similar couples. There are many others among public figures too - Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn, Nelson Mandela and Graca Machel, Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall... But I guess they're all incorrigible liars too, delayed at the office and having it off with the tea girl...

[OWoman]

Getting back on topic,

The mm who stay with their wives generally are the ones that don't fall in love with their OW (despite what they tell the OW to keep the sex, free bed and breakfast etc coming).

 

The ones that leave are the ones that genuinely fall in love and aren't cake eaters.

By the way I am excluding exit affairs here where the man is on the way out of the door and then wants to be by himself and "find himself". Find another OW more like.

 

Did you read the OP? Because your reply certainly wasn't on topic. Please try to stick to the topic, and if you have difficulty understanding it, I'm sure if you asked for clarity one of the nice posters engaging in the constructive discussion that preceded your post would have taken the trouble to explain it.

[Lyssa]

The only reason why FMM is delayed at work is because of me

[OWoman]

The only reason why FMM is delayed at work is because of me

 

I'll bet DELAYED is the one thing he's not..