Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Second, for what it's worth, many of the women "making the dough" who meet a man making more than them often decide, "Honey, I don't want to work anymore". Half the guys I know have been through exactly that. They all met working women who ultimately ditched the corporate world. Half of the guys I see at work every day are there working OT exactly for that reason. Most of these guys have bought into it because it benefits the raising of children. Better the mother than cheep child care raising the kids, right? But it all leads to a wanton disconnection with fiscial reality inside a few years and leads to the situations I've talked of earlier. Every time. It's the #1 complaint I hear every day. I can see that. The problem is that in particular for women who had growing careers and the accesability to flowing income and the independance of doing as they deem desirable with their money it is quite a change and even "sacrafice" I would say to lose all that to devote themselves to the upbringing of their children. A job which I might add goes mostly unappreciate, and unrewarded in terms of financial gain. Staying home to raise children is NO easy task. And while spending the joint income frivolusly or irresponsibly is no way to keep a healthy balanced relationship and respect between you and your spouse, special consideration should be given to all the above things a career woman has to give up to properly raise the children. A task which a lot of women will happily do but men refuse to acknowledge as a job in and of itself.
Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 You should start doing that! I'm sure you could carry it off:cool: Thanks but I wouldn't want anyone to actually listen to me.
hip chick Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 That isn't the voice of a lot of single men. It is the voice of weirdo men who go to the anti-women sites. The men I know at work and the men in my family are not like this and do not hold this sentiment toward women.
hip chick Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Childcare is not cheap. First of all, I am not trying to paint all men as saints. Yes, there are bastards out there. Second, for what it's worth, many of the women "making the dough" who meet a man making more than them often decide, "Honey, I don't want to work anymore". Half the guys I know have been through exactly that. They all met working women who ultimately ditched the corporate world. Half of the guys I see at work every day are there working OT exactly for that reason. Most of these guys have bought into it because it benefits the raising of children. Better the mother than cheep child care raising the kids, right? But it all leads to a wanton disconnection with fiscial reality inside a few years and leads to the situations I've talked of earlier. Every time. It's the #1 complaint I hear every day.
Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 That isn't the voice of a lot of single men. It is the voice of weirdo men who go to the anti-women sites. The men I know at work and the men in my family are not like this and do not hold this sentiment toward women. Likewise, your dad and your brother and the three guys in shipping and receiving do NOT represent all of the single male population.
hip chick Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 You're talking about the single guys who can't get chicks and are angry about it - the same ones who frequent the anti-women sites.
Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 What the heck is an "anti-women site" and why do you even know about that?!!?!
BiAxident Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 That isn't the voice of a lot of single men. It is the voice of weirdo men who go to the anti-women sites. The men I know at work and the men in my family are not like this and do not hold this sentiment toward women. It may very well not be the voice of single men, but it is a voice which is perpetuated in our society. Sam Kinison made a living out of describing the hell that men can go through in marriage. In Michigan, there are law firms for men that exist to help them protect their assets. There is also the stereotype (true or otherwise) that women prefer to marry men with $$$. Now, you certainly don't have to agree with this message. However, you may do well for yourself to understand that it does exist. Attacking the messenger, generalizing it as coming from someone who goes to the "anti-women sites", isn't going to help in the end. I agree with you at the average age at which people marry has increased primarily to emphasis on career achievement. I also agree with the notion that some men find committment intimidating because of the horror stories they hear on television, in the news, and from other men.
hip chick Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 It is not always in women's best interests to get married with all the cheating, loser men out there, that's for sure. You get a good guy one in a million I think.
MJR Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I can see that. The problem is that in particular for women who had growing careers and the accesability to flowing income and the independance of doing as they deem desirable with their money it is quite a change and even "sacrafice" I would say to lose all that to devote themselves to the upbringing of their children. A job which I might add goes mostly unappreciate, and unrewarded in terms of financial gain. Staying home to raise children is NO easy task. And while spending the joint income frivolusly or irresponsibly is no way to keep a healthy balanced relationship and respect between you and your spouse, special consideration should be given to all the above things a career woman has to give up to properly raise the children. A task which a lot of women will happily do but men refuse to acknowledge as a job in and of itself. I completely agree.
MJR Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Childcare is not cheap. I wasn't referring to the price, but the quality. Surely a mother cares more than a hired hand, no?
BiAxident Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 It is not always in women's best interests to get married with all the cheating, loser men out there, that's for sure. You get a good guy one in a million I think. I am beginning to think that projection is your preferred defensive mechanism?
MJR Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 That isn't the voice of a lot of single men. It is the voice of weirdo men who go to the anti-women sites. The men I know at work and the men in my family are not like this and do not hold this sentiment toward women. I'm far less anti-woman than you are anti-man. That much is clear.
Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I am beginning to think that projection is your preferred defensive mechanism? Bingo!!!!!!!!!
Woggle Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Men always get accused of being afraid of commitment but while might be scared to make that commitment at all we mean it when we do. Just look at this board to see all the cases of men who had their wives get bored a few years down and all of a sudden she is in love with some guy at work or she drops the I love you but I am not in love with you anymore bomb. He is sitting there thinking he has a happy marriage while she is busy planning on dropping the divorce bomb when he least expects it and his world is shattered. Tell me which is worse, not making the commitment at all or making it and then a few years down the road shatering your family because the marriage is not a perfect 24/7 romance novel that you only find in the movies. When you look at the walkaway wives, the cheating women who have nor emorse for what they do, the bias of the courts and everything else why should a man take this risk? Why should he play russian roulette with his life like this? Single men see this and it scares the hell out of them. No matter how well you treat her and how devoted you are to her and your family if she gets bored you will be thrown out like a piece of garbage. Most men would love to have a loving wife and raise their kids but they see the risk as too much these days. I may be happily married myself but I just got very lucky and what I see in other marriages is enough to make any man want to become a catholic priest.
White Flower Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Men always get accused of being afraid of commitment but while might be scared to make that commitment at all we mean it when we do. Just look at this board to see all the cases of men who had their wives get bored a few years down and all of a sudden she is in love with some guy at work or she drops the I love you but I am not in love with you anymore bomb. He is sitting there thinking he has a happy marriage while she is busy planning on dropping the divorce bomb when he least expects it and his world is shattered. Tell me which is worse, not making the commitment at all or making it and then a few years down the road shatering your family because the marriage is not a perfect 24/7 romance novel that you only find in the movies. When you look at the walkaway wives, the cheating women who have nor emorse for what they do, the bias of the courts and everything else why should a man take this risk? Why should he play russian roulette with his life like this? Single men see this and it scares the hell out of them. No matter how well you treat her and how devoted you are to her and your family if she gets bored you will be thrown out like a piece of garbage. Most men would love to have a loving wife and raise their kids but they see the risk as too much these days. I may be happily married myself but I just got very lucky and what I see in other marriages is enough to make any man want to become a catholic priest. Woggle, most men don't open up like you and they certainly aren't open to share about their cheating so they don't post here. That explains why you see so many W/MW posting in higher numbers. Women have been self-depracating for centuries so we don't fear the bashing as much as men do so we post about anything and everything. And the 'bias' of the courts often comes from the fact that men make more money than women so they often have to pay the alimony. When women make more than their H's they have to pay alimony. Joan Lunden did exactly that when she divorced. I know in your case the judge misjudged you and it wasn't fair, but I don't think that happens too often.
Woggle Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 The courts were 100% fair to me but I happened to get a good judge who ironically was a woman. Many men are not so lucky and I don't feel that a good man who was thrown out of his family for no reason should have to break his bank.
Author SouthernT Posted June 1, 2008 Author Posted June 1, 2008 Take into consideration that many of these men I know did not initially enter into these relationships with negative thoughts or comparison concerns. I seriously doubt so many men would gleefully engage to marry with the disposition of failure hanging in their heads. The common thread I see, from my end, is that they all thought they would be different; that they would be the exception. That's the scariest part of all. The tendency not to second guess that seems far too naive for trust and hope. There are women, I've met them, that I'm willing to take that leap of faith with. They are few and far between. I just don't think this is a "man issue". I think this is a people issue. I think it goes right down to the core of a western society, to which women are equal to blame as men. Everything else seems cliche', pop culture trash to me, most especially novels entitled "Men Who Can't Love". We love. We most definately love. Funny, because I work with at least 10 married men and I don't hear them complain about anything other than their wives moodiness. But at the same time, all of these men are in their 20's. I honestly think the problem today is the loss of basic fundamentals: 1) Everyone is so focused on careers and the money/wealth has taken the place of good communication in a marriage. Communication is key. Hence: MORE MONEY MORE PROBLEMS (without a solid foundation...and in MY world..that foundation is God) 2) People are entering relationships/marriages with UNREALISTIC expectations which leads to dissapointments and both parties stop trying. 3) Some men flash their money/cars to get a woman's attention and she becomes comfortable with that lifestyle. And then he is suprised when HER up-keep becomes HIS downfall. (this is totally different from being able to provide a stable home and the basics to provide for a family) 3) Both men AND women think that once they find their way into a relationship and/or marriage, neither one of them think they have to work or put in the effort anymore. When the truth is, the REAL work doesn't begin until AFTER the relationship and marriage begins. 4) It will always be a "Leap of Faith" and you can't loose you're faith. Relationships/marriages will always be a gamble. Nobody is perfect. The man isn't perfect and neither is the woman. Yet we are so quick to judge and point out one anothers shortcommings. Just like you have to tolerate someone else, someone else has to tolerate YOU. And switching from parter to partner will NEVER fix nor change that. That actually takes more energy in my opinion. 5) I think that some of us become so closed off from previous hurt and drama, that we don't even know HOW to receive real love when it's right there in front of us. So we find reasons to fight it and purposely look for flaws in each person that presents him/herself...
MJR Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Funny, because I work with at least 10 married men and I don't hear them complain about anything other than their wives moodiness. That may only be because there is a woman in the room. Men with a gripe tend to be far more frank and forthcoming with other men in conversation than they would be in the presence of or towards a woman. Guy talk, basically. A lot of women never get to hear it in true form, and I believe those women who have would agree it's not something you're going to hear at the work place when a woman is present. As for the rest of your post, it's certainly hard for me to disagree with much of it. But I also don't believe much of that is new either. I'm sure people have struggled with those issues all throughout history in some form to one degree or another.
hip chick Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Everyone is projecting their own experiences on here.
hip chick Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah, Woggle, but we also have the husbands who become distant and give wives the "I'm not in love with you anymore" talk, tons of creepy cheating husbands (I get hit on so much by married men it's not funny), etc. etc. etc.
SpikeyChick Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 'Women That Can't Accept Men Who Don't Love Them So It Must Be Something Wrong With The Man Instead Then' more like. True that- Ladies, all men who date you will NOT want to marry you because they are just not attracted to you as a long term prospect. You can buy all those lame-ass books which attempt to portray the guy as pathological if it makes you FEEL better about getting dumped.. Apparently this is a growth industry --writing books for women who are desperate to avoid talking responsibilty for the failure of their relationship (s)
Author SouthernT Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 True that- Ladies, all men who date you will NOT want to marry you because they are just not attracted to you as a long term prospect. You can buy all those lame-ass books which attempt to portray the guy as pathological if it makes you FEEL better about getting dumped.. Apparently this is a growth industry --writing books for women who are desperate to avoid talking responsibilty for the failure of their relationship (s) You are jumping to WAAAY too many conclusions about this subject and if you read the book then you would see and understand what is really going on. This is NOT as simple as ''He's Just Not That Into You". (Now in some cases, of course) But you are making statements out of ignorance. Read the book before write post about women "needing to feel better about being dumped"
Gunny376 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 I've still got some things in my life that I'm working on ~ but the list is getting shorter with each passing day before I get back into the mating and dating game. I don't want to get into a serial dating type situation ~ and would very much like to get into a LTR committed relationship with the right woman. During my sabbaticial from the dating world, I've been taking sometime to "bone-up" by reading, web-surfing, etc. One of the things that I read randomingly is that the length of time from the on-set of the relationship to the the point to where it become sexually intimate ~ is proportinate to how long the relationship will last. The next LTR I get into ~ she and I will be taking it "Andy Griffin and Hellen Crump" slow.
tgrgrlx Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Hi.. I am in love with "a man who can't love" ! It's driving me nuts & I am very trn as if to saty for the ride or get out now while I have at least half of my heart left. He is all that people descibe. Mixed signals, Actions & words thaat contradict each other, a neverending rollercoaster ride, full of ups & downs ! But as I said.. I am in love with him & so are my children ! I have no clue what to do. I do know that I have ALWAYS" attracted men like this. Unavailable to me in one way or another. Please read my posts under "dating"... Tell me what you think !
Recommended Posts