"Men Who Can't Love"

[White Flower]

Very interesting post.

 

People don't fail because others make them, people fail because they themselves set out to.

Pretty sage advice:cool:

[SouthernT]

Very interesting post.

 

So stop allowing that negative feedback to mold your way of thinking. I think that having no faith that you won't become like one of your friends, is ultimately having no faith in your own abilities.

 

There is no reason why a man has to turn his relationship into one that is a failure just as the ones he compares himself to. If you go into a situation predisposed to fail you will fail, and if you enter into a relationship plaguing your thoughts with the failures of others how could you not be destined to fail?

 

 

I think that men that are afraid of commitment are ultimately afraid of their own capacity to succeed, and that can be scary I suppose.

 

People don't fail because others make them, people fail because they themselves set out to.

 

I agree.

 

This whole subject wouldnt be as bad it werent for the fact that almost every man is like this in today's generation. It makes it impossible for women. Men have become more and more comfortable with being single and it makes it impossible to start a family this way. Then it's like one day he wakes up and is afraid that he is going to die alone and be lonely for the rest of his life. So he goes out and puts on his best "front" to end up with a marriage that he doesnt really want.

 

With men wanting to remain single, what is a woman to do? It seems like she almost has no choice but to pretty much accept fwb type situations or end alone as well. (and I'm speaking very generally here)

[sid3]

I think maybe half the time it is the fact that a guy just comes to feel like he just isn't that into her. For what ever reason, it is always dismissed as him being a commitment phob and the real cause of his loss of interest is not honestly embraced. Just as in the begining of a new relationship, men are too quick to assume a woman is flaky, when in fact there could be several reasons for diminished interest levels after a few weeks of dating. Labels are used in many cases to escape the resonsibilty the one left does not want to confront and deal with. It's much easier on the ego to place the blame and a label on the other half that decided not to stick around. And as often as it is discussed on these threads, the emotionally unavailble seem to be the type of person who slips past our guard and are not found out until too much of an emotional investment has been made before it is too late. The question is; are they really that good at seducing, or do we really want to be seduced. jmho:eek:

[Tomcat33]

I agree.

 

This whole subject wouldnt be as bad it werent for the fact that almost every man is like this in today's generation. It makes it impossible for women. Men have become more and more comfortable with being single and it makes it impossible to start a family this way. Then it's like one day he wakes up and is afraid that he is going to die alone and be lonely for the rest of his life. So he goes out and puts on his best "front" to end up with a marriage that he doesnt really want.

 

With men wanting to remain single, what is a woman to do? It seems like she almost has no choice but to pretty much accept fwb type situations or end alone as well. (and I'm speaking very generally here)

 

More men are choosing to stay single because men have become more selfreliant around the home so he needs of a woman less and less. Women have become selfreliant in terms of financial independence since we started to work and so there is no REAL reason to marry anymore other than to give children a name and to provide them with a sense of family.

 

It all started in the 60's with the feminist movement unfortunately, we wanted equality and we kept pushing and pushing for more to our own detriment and this is what we ended up with SEL RELIANT genders that don't need from each other. Technological revolution has a lot to do with it too since now every desire is at the tip of your fingertips and more and more social communities are being formed online. Look at the HUGE industry roleplaying games is. The amount of people that are getting caugh up in virtual living through life games and communities that form online is astronomical, also creating an even bigger social gap.

 

Perhaps it's time to evaluate why we still want marriage so much?

 

The big thing I notice, I check out dating sites and I see an overwhelming amount of men who in the area where it says "do you want children" will either say NO or UNDECIDED. A lot of men in the 30-45 group who don't already have children seem to have NO interest in that at all.

[Tomcat33]

Pretty sage advice:cool:

 

 

thanks WF wasn't so much advice since I am sure it will fall on deaf ears, but more an observation.

[Tomcat33]

Technological revolution has a lot to do with it too since now every desire is at the tip of your fingertips and more and more social communities are being formed online.

 

 

 

PAHAHAHAH I meant Evolution not REvolution! :lmao:

Might be getting close to bed time...

[MJR]

Very interesting post.

 

So stop allowing that negative feedback to mold your way of thinking. I think that having no faith that you won't become like one of your friends, is ultimately having no faith in your own abilities.

 

There is no reason why a man has to turn his relationship into one that is a failure just as the ones he compares himself to. If you go into a situation predisposed to fail you will fail, and if you enter into a relationship plaguing your thoughts with the failures of others how could you not be destined to fail?

 

 

I think that men that are afraid of commitment are ultimately afraid of their own capacity to succeed, and that can be scary I suppose.

 

People don't fail because others make them, people fail because they themselves set out to.

 

Take into consideration that many of these men I know did not initially enter into these relationships with negative thoughts or comparison concerns. I seriously doubt so many men would gleefully engage to marry with the disposition of failure hanging in their heads.

 

The common thread I see, from my end, is that they all thought they would be different; that they would be the exception. That's the scariest part of all.

 

The tendency not to second guess that seems far too naive for trust and hope.

 

There are women, I've met them, that I'm willing to take that leap of faith with. They are few and far between. I just don't think this is a "man issue". I think this is a people issue. I think it goes right down to the core of a western society, to which women are equal to blame as men.

 

Everything else seems cliche', pop culture trash to me, most especially novels entitled "Men Who Can't Love".

 

We love. We most definately love.

[Tomcat33]

Take into consideration that many of these men I know did not initially enter into these relationships with negative thoughts or comparison concerns. I seriously doubt so many men would gleefully engage to marry with the disposition of failure hanging in their heads.

 

The common thread I see, from my end, is that they all thought they would be different; that they would be the exception. That's the scariest part of all.

 

The tendency not to second guess that seems far too naive for trust and hope.

 

There are women, I've met them, that I'm willing to take that leap of faith with. They are few and far between. I just don't think this is a "man issue". I think this is a people issue. I think it goes right down to the core of a western society, to which women are equal to blame as men.

 

Everything else seems cliche', pop culture trash to me, most especially novels entitled "Men Who Can't Love".

 

We love. We most definately love.

 

 

I can appreciate that MJR that a lot of these people who we hear complain did NOT go into a marriage thinking they were going to fail, however at some point they must have stopped putting effort into the relationship and THIS is what ultimately kills it.

 

Having high hopes for anything, be it a marriage, a new job, a friendship or a vacation you saved up for your entire life is great but high hopes alone is not going to sustain a positive outcome.

 

We live in a time where everything around us is disposable and quickly accessible and everything is "improved" and upgraded to make our lives easier and more simple to live. Well it's no wonder after a while we come to rely on things being simplified for us so what is stopping us from carrying that attitude over onto our romantic relationships as well? It's attitude controlled by thought patterns.

 

I agree with you it is NOT a man thing it is a people thing. Women are just as guilty of having their idiosyncracies as well VERY MUCH SO I know I am a woman. But here we are in a social atmosphere where everything is to be analysed and given a label and it seems we are forgetting to actually live. Simpler times called for simpler methods of relating sophisticaion is not necessarily a good thing it can actually hurt us.

 

On the topic of men who can't commit, you have to admit though there ARE people or men who do have problems commiting. A person's history does not lie. But as you said sometimes to ease our own egos we tend to find fault in the innanimate as a cushion for our own reality.

[MJR]

Then please help me (and other women) understand what makes a difference?

 

 

When men get the news that another man raped a woman, that another man beat a woman, we become angry and have violent emotions towards these men. If I ever see a man hitting a woman in front of me, it is my nature to hurt him. I don't like him. I want to see him suffer.

 

This is an element that seems almost entirely lacking in women.

 

When certain women make a bad name for womenkind, by racking up 40K bills, by not working and wasting a hard working man's money without thought, by abusing the justice system to entrap a man into alimony when it's clear the case is so absurd, women don't go into rebellion, self-policing mode to keep these other types of women into check.

 

In fact, it so often seems that many women praise these types as "sisters" who "stuck it" to a man. Amen!

 

Men, whose nature it is to self-police each other, see the lack of this so often in women that they're in disbelief over it.

 

It's sad, disturbing and reason enough for a man to be cautious.

[hip chick]

A 30 year old is not in the same age group as a 45 year old. Sorry.

[hip chick]

I don't really think that. Men rack up credit card debt just as much as women do, that's a fact.

A man will commit to a woman when he feels it in his heart and soul. He won't commit when he doesn't have strong feelings for the woman.

Simple as that.

The posters like you are trying to get us to believe that women are bad and that men are scared of them and that's crap. Sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When men get the news that another man raped a woman, that another man beat a woman, we become angry and have violent emotions towards these men. If I ever see a man hitting a woman in front of me, it is my nature to hurt him. I don't like him. I want to see him suffer.

 

This is an element that seems almost entirely lacking in women.

 

When certain women make a bad name for womenkind, by racking up 40K bills, by not working and wasting a hard working man's money without thought, by abusing the justice system to entrap a man into alimony when it's clear the case is so absurd, women don't go into rebellion, self-policing mode to keep these other types of women into check.

 

In fact, it so often seems that many women praise these types as "sisters" who "stuck it" to a man. Amen!

 

Men, whose nature it is to self-police each other, see the lack of this so often in women that they're in disbelief over it.

 

It's sad, disturbing and reason enough for a man to be cautious.

[Tomcat33]

I don't really think that. Men rack up credit card debt just as much as women do, that's a fact.

 

 

Really how many men do you know that are at home raising the kids racking up credit cards while their wives are out earning the keep?

 

That's what MJR was refering to, the opposite of that.

[hip chick]

There really aren't a lot of stay at home moms anymore. Lots of women are making the dough. Yes there are a lot of husbands, too, that wrack up debt and think they are entitled to the "high life" when they can't afford it, but buy the Harley, the midlife crisis sports car, etc. etc. etc.

The men that are out on these boards trying to convince us that men have become afraid of women and this is a trend and women not married by age 30 are going to have the life of a single cat lady and they are all pathetic and no man will want nothing to do with them....that is crap.

People (men and women) are getting married later because they are progressing in their careers before getting married.

 

Really how many men do you know that are at home raising the kids racking up credit cards while their wives are out earning the keep?

 

That's what MJR was refering to, the opposite of that.

[Tomcat33]

The posters like you are trying to get us to believe that women are bad and that men are scared of them and that's crap. Sorry.

 

 

See the smart thing to do is to listen to what a man is thinking since he represents the very men that we are describing as commitment phobic, in listening we can actually try to understand where they are coming from rather than dismissing what they say as "crap" which only serves to perpetuate their erroneous feelings.

[White Flower]

thanks WF wasn't so much advice since I am sure it will fall on deaf ears, but more an observation.

I wasn't sure if I should call it advice or the makings of a good proberb.

[Tomcat33]

There really aren't a lot of stay at home moms anymore. Lots of women are making the dough. Yes there are a lot of husbands, too, that wrack up debt and think they are entitled to the "high life" when they can't afford it, but buy the Harley, the midlife crisis sports car, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

That is not what I asked you. I asked:

 

how many men do you know that stay home and raise the kids while the W is the one earning the keep while he is racking up credit cards?

[Tomcat33]

I wasn't sure if I should call it advice or the makings of a good proberb.

 

I like the sounds of THAT.

 

Just call me "Confused" the western counterpart of Confucius

[hip chick]

No offense, but I don't take the word of a guy on a messageboard as the real voice of all men.

I am a professional and work with quality men and they are not like you with your warped since of women. They are not ragging on women all the time.

 

There is not a trend of men being afraid of commitment because women are pathetic and men are afraid of them.

People (including men and women) are getting married later in life than earlier decades because they are progressing in their careers earlier and getting married later.

[hip chick]

That is not what I asked you. I asked:

 

how many men do you know that stay home and raise the kids while the W is the one earning the keep while he is racking up credit cards?

 

Just because a man is out in the workforce doesn't mean he isn't wracking up debt. I know all kinds of people, men and women, who have really screwed up by buying with credit, thinking they were entitled to the high life when they couldn't afford it.

[Tomcat33]

No offense, but I don't take the word of a guy on a messageboard as the real voice of all men.

I am a professional and work with quality men and they are not like you with your warped since of women. They are not ragging on women all the time.

 

There is not a trend of men being afraid of commitment because women are pathetic and men are afraid of them.

People (including men and women) are getting married later in life than earlier decades because they are progressing in their careers earlier and getting married later.

 

 

Why not? He's a man and he is single and he is being exposed to what a LOT of single men are exposed to why can't he be the voice for other men?

 

Your continual attitude of condescention (not just here I have read your comment on other threads) denotes closedmindedness. I hazzard to guess that it doesn't matter who is speaking if they don't say what you want to hear you will dismiss it anyway so....

[White Flower]

I like the sounds of THAT.

 

Just call me "Confused" the western counterpart of Confucius

Ha ha ha! Wouldn't that be an oxymoron? 'Confused said...[insert wise quote].

[Tomcat33]

Just because a man is out in the workforce doesn't mean he isn't wracking up debt. I know all kinds of people, men and women, who have really screwed up by buying with credit, thinking they were entitled to the high life when they couldn't afford it.

 

Just as I thought, you can't answer my question because there really aren't many men that stay home and rack up credit cards while their women earn the keep. So really you have no idea what that must feel like in terms of mate selection for a guy looking to protect his assets and his pride.

 

you are clearly missing the point in which a man might feel apprehension in commiting to a woman enough to marry her and that is that he fears he might be taken for all he is worth. That's the message I am seeing and it's quite simple really. As unfounded as that fear may be it is a real concern for some men.

[MJR]

There really aren't a lot of stay at home moms anymore. Lots of women are making the dough.

 

First of all, I am not trying to paint all men as saints. Yes, there are bastards out there.

 

Second, for what it's worth, many of the women "making the dough" who meet a man making more than them often decide, "Honey, I don't want to work anymore".

 

Half the guys I know have been through exactly that. They all met working women who ultimately ditched the corporate world. Half of the guys I see at work every day are there working OT exactly for that reason.

 

Most of these guys have bought into it because it benefits the raising of children. Better the mother than cheep child care raising the kids, right? But it all leads to a wanton disconnection with fiscial reality inside a few years and leads to the situations I've talked of earlier.

 

Every time. It's the #1 complaint I hear every day.

[Tomcat33]

Ha ha ha! Wouldn't that be an oxymoron? 'Confused said...[insert wise quote].

 

 

Yeah but you know me WG I don't follow the herd so it would be quite funny actually, and SO apropos.

 

I love the sound of that "confused says..." :lmao:

Now that is one proverb I would take to heart.

[White Flower]

Yeah but you know me WG I don't follow the herd so it would be quite funny actually, and SO apropos.

 

I love the sound of that "confused says..." :lmao:

Now that is one proverb I would take to heart.

You should start doing that! I'm sure you could carry it off:cool: