ookla_2 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 The 'rest of your life' used to be 10-20 years, things change Yes! Exactly!
Cobra_X30 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 I'm following this thread with interest. Wildly different needs--and sometimes a need that you once rated as low priority shifts to high priority. Getting that need met suddenly feels urgent. Can a spouse change and grow to meet your current needs? In EY's case, the answer was no. Cobra, you mentioned Mustang. From what I've seen recently, Mustang has decided her needs aren't serious enough to warrant a change (or that she defines them as "wants" more than "needs") at least for the time being. This is where some may say marriage takes hard work. Others will say, if you feel no desire to relate physically to your husband, don't waste your time and his. Get out. It is so situational and very confusing. My feeling on it is that she is simply has a very different personality than EY. Also, I think her H is different as well, at the core if not particularly different in action. So, your right, like everything in life, its all situational. Core values rarely change, even from our childhood, IMHO. I think probably EY and her H were trapped in a nasty cycle of him wanting Power and respect... and her wanting peace and independance. Which is why he is hanging on so hard. She provided for his power need, even if not in a healthy way. Just a guess though. In order for a marriage to work... I used to think that at least one person has to "get it", to understand themselves and their partner. Now... I'm more inclined to say they both need to get it. Otherwise your just going to wind up frustrated trying to compensate for your dense spouse. forsaking all others does not just mean no adultery, it means you put your spouse above family and friends as well, and business and hobbies and you name it, yet how many times do we see M in trouble because that aspect is not adhered to ? That was my point exactly! There are many, many times in a R or M where we fail to put our partner first. But, I think should all be able to agree that cheating goes into a different category. It's been like that since the dawn of time! Ever read Dante's inferno? It's no mistake that the lowest level of hell was saved for betrayers. Anyway... this particular point is going off topic.
Arch Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 I'm sure that most people enter into marriage fully intending and believing that it is going to be forever. I know I did. And I'm still in it. I never dreamed, 16 years ago, that I would be this unhappy in my marriage...how could I have foreseen that at 20, when life was perfect, and I knew everything there was to know about everything? I understand what you are saying, I just think that it's a very simplistic way of looking at something that isn't that simple. It is pretty simple in my eyes, but I will say getting married at 20 was a stupid thing to do as most people have a need to be total **** ups for the first 10 years or so after they get out of college. China has the worlds lowest divorce rate, around 5% I belive and it also costs the least. Which means either Chinese are happier in their marriages or they have the ability to put the family before their own happiness. Either way they have my complete respect. Do everything possible to resolve your marriage issues before you get a divorce.
TheRain Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 It is pretty simple in my eyes, but I will say getting married at 20 was a stupid thing to do as most people have a need to be total **** ups for the first 10 years or so after they get out of college. China has the worlds lowest divorce rate, around 5% I belive and it also costs the least. Which means either Chinese are happier in their marriages or they have the ability to put the family before their own happiness. Either way they have my complete respect. Do everything possible to resolve your marriage issues before you get a divorce. Totally agreeing with you, Arch. Arch, I agree with you on alot of stuff....well except the whole kinky bondage crap.
Arch Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Totally agreeing with you, Arch. Arch, I agree with you on alot of stuff....well except the whole kinky bondage crap. haha, well we all have something, females in rope is mine .
Mz. Pixie Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 The better question is, who violated the vow of the marriage? Actually, they both did. What makes it so much worse for her just because sex was involved????? Emotional abandonment is breaking the vows too! If you're going by religious beliefs and the Bible-the husband actually has a higher calling in the marriage than the wife does. He's the spiritual leader of the family and has to answer to God for what kind of job he's done at that. He's also instructed to love his wife as Christ loved the church- which is an extremely high calling since He died for the church! He's to sacrifice himself for her. Really think about that. Oh, how many marriages would be so much better if each partner put the other first- all of the time! Women are sacrifical in nature- caretakers. What happens is that the wife does this for 10-15 years. She sacrifices everything for her husband and family- just knowing that she'll get that back. Eventually it comes to the point where the kids and the house are just not enough for her- and she's tired of giving and never getting anything in return. That's when her taker (according to marriagebuilders) begins to rear it's ugly head and insist on being catered to.
Mustang Sally Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 I'm glad to hear from you again, EY. I had often wondered what became of you and your situation. Know that I wish you peaceful resolve and strength in trying times. Know also, that I respect that you have come here (and everywhere else in your life) to be honest about what has happened and how you are dealing with everyone/thing.
TMCM Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Oh, how many marriages would be so much better if each partner put the other first- all of the time! Indeed Mz Pixie, indeed it would.
mrmaximum Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 The 'rest of your life' used to be 10-20 years, things change The stipulation hasn't. When people get married initially, they do actually believe "til death" no?
BetrayedMM Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 The similarities between your situation and mine are striking, although the roles are reversed and I'm the stbxh of a bipolar cheating wife. Differences- I threw her out, this is at least her second time, she is not nor is there any potential of being with her OM(He simply used her for sex), and sadly, there was a whole lot of passion between us. Oh, and she says she never 'lusted' for him, and the sex was horrible, but I take that as a probable lie. The rest is samey- samey! Similar enough that I dug up your story... WOW! That was amazing insight into the chaotic thought processes of a manic phase! Some of what you were saying sounds EXACTLY like what my stbx says, and it doesn't make sense to me. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions. I haven't read all of everything, so if you've previously covered this stuff, I apologize. Have you figured out exactly why you were so driven to do this? Does your medication work, and what is it? When you weren't manic, were you still driven to cheat, or was it constant? If you weren't bipolar, do you think any of this would have happened? I guess I'll stop there, sorry to bombard you with questions, but I'm very curious about this.
BetrayedMM Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Well, I should have read more before I posted. Not as similar as I had thought. The relationship dynamics in our failed marriages were quite different. I'm still curious though! It's really the bipolar parts I'm interested in understanding. No, I don't want my 'wife' back, even though she's on meds that work very well, what I see with the bipolar stripped away isn't what I want. I'm just trying to understand the whole bipolar thing better, that's all.
VivianGirl Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 It is pretty simple in my eyes, but I will say getting married at 20 was a stupid thing to do as most people have a need to be total **** ups for the first 10 years or so after they get out of college. China has the worlds lowest divorce rate, around 5% I belive and it also costs the least. Which means either Chinese are happier in their marriages or they have the ability to put the family before their own happiness. Either way they have my complete respect. Do everything possible to resolve your marriage issues before you get a divorce. So what do you think is doing everything possible? How long do you try? What if your H doesn't want counseling as EY said and how do you make him go? How do you try even more and what should the expectations be? When would it be okay to just say enough, then? I once heard that the definition of crazy was to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result or behavior from people. Resolving issues doesn't mean that the relationship would survive. I believe that the way EY handled it wasn't pretty and created a lot of pain (and I am not excusing it) but it may have been the only way she could have done it. It doesn't make it right but it is what it is. And I appreciate her telling her story in spite of the slings and arrows and allowing me to learn from her.
Author EmotionallyYours Posted March 29, 2008 Author Posted March 29, 2008 Hi BetrayedMM. I started to respond to you tonight, but my response was getting too long and I want to think a bit more before I post. Plus, my pre-teen daughter has to IM her friend right now... sheesh. I really want to talk more to you I guess. I'd also like to learn more about the behaviour of other bipolars too. I'll go back and look up your threads as well. That actually might help me to respond to you a bit better. I doubt I can write tonight, maybe tomorrow night. Crazy weekend schedule with the kids. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Your diagnosis is new, if memory serves. But just for the sake of reassurance, I do know several bi-polar people who are living their lives just fine. The difference between those who do well and those who don't seems to be that they take it seriously. They treat it like a chronic condition, just as serious as diabetes or heart disease. They monitor it, they see their doctor regularly, take their medication, avoid alcohol and illicit drugs, sleep right, eat right, and all that other stuff. This is a serious condition which can effect not only the quality of your life... but your life itself. The ones who KNOW that and accept it, are the ones I've noticed who do well and live normally.
BetrayedMM Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Hi BetrayedMM. I started to respond to you tonight, but my response was getting too long and I want to think a bit more before I post. Plus, my pre-teen daughter has to IM her friend right now... sheesh. I really want to talk more to you I guess. I'd also like to learn more about the behaviour of other bipolars too. I'll go back and look up your threads as well. That actually might help me to respond to you a bit better. I doubt I can write tonight, maybe tomorrow night. Crazy weekend schedule with the kids. Sorry to keep you waiting. No problem. We all have our lives to lead. I'm probably asking you to do the equivalent of explaining colors to a blind man anyway. It's just that your meltdown thread and some of its similarities(word for word!) to what little explanation I was given have been a bit of an eye opener, brought me closer in a way to understanding mania. Depression I can understand! Basically, I'm trying to understand what happened to me, to us, and yes, of course your situation is different, you are a different person, but you know what it's like to be bipolar and have apparently experienced the same kind of thought processes. I really don't know how much of it was the disorder driving her, and how much was due to her character flaws. Maybe my expecting to make heads or tails of it all is a waste of time, maybe by nature it doesn't and can't make any sense at all, but I'm driven to at least try. BTW, the stbx is a rapid cycling bipolar I. May or may not be the same as your condition, there are different versions, but it sure sounds like the same symptoms.
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) Well, it is a little weird. My STXH and I have been in mediation since mid-January. Although he did/does not want to divorce, he has agreed to move forward. He has accepted that it is over and I will not come back. He is still deeply hurt and in therapy himself. In fact, I've gone to one of his sessions to help him with his counselor so she has a little more insight to help him. I have been wanting this for so long that I was a lot further in the mental separation process than he was. He understands that. Unfortunately it doesn't soothe his hurt. We have a MSA done and is now being approved by both of our lawyers. Barring anything unexpected from his side we will file and then it will be final in 90 days. Sooth his hurt, why? You were so hell bent on riding OM and having your orgasms, and you did it! I have to wonder what your children are thinking about your actions and how it's destroyed their family and their father! You get NO sympathy from me! You could've just divorced him, but no, you just had to hurt hubby! No excuse, and very pathetic! Edited March 29, 2008 by Darth Vader
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) I can't erase the mistakes, but I can be better. The kids will probably want more of an explanation when they get older and I will be honest about my mistakes, but I want them to be proud of my actions after the fact at least. I tell you what, I've heard often, even on these forums, that children tend to not want to have anything to do with the parent that has cheated. This doesn't always happen, but, more often than not, it does! Edited March 29, 2008 by Darth Vader
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Hope you get therapy for those anger issues and SOON Originally Posted by 45Reverse I call Bull**** again ...SOMEONE has to have the freakin DECENCY to keep the OM away from your kids....I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that you don't have that kind of decency. Your STBX is a beaten man. His emotions are all jacked around and unstable now (a situation created by YOU....nice work lady) so his insistence on the kids meeting the OM is not to be considered here. You're just plain STUPID to think that introducing your kids to the guy who basically booted their dad out of their lives will have any kind of positive (or even neutral) affect on them... Listen to me here: The relationship with the OM is doomed. Sooner or later it will CRASH AND BURN. Affairs that end marriages fail miserably in more than 80% of all cases. What...do you think you two are "special" or "different"??? You think that "this time" it's for real??? Puhleeeees! What you're about to do is kick your father out of your kids lives, then introduce 'this other guy'....then eventually (more likely sooner than later) that other guy will be gone too. And in the end all you will have done is F--k with your kids heads. You're classic...Just classic. HTF do you sleep at night or look at yourself in the mirror? If there is any kind of real justice in this world your husband will get custody of your kids. It's clear that you have no idea what is really in their best interests. Like I said....You can't fix stupid Maybe people need to see and hear the truth in it's rare and raw form, rather than be deleted from existance! I noticed that this post was deleted, unfortunately the husband can't just delete the pain and suffering from his heart. He may have been doing the best that he could with what knowledge he had, given the fact that this was his first relationship, from what the poster of this thread had previously pointed out. I've been more harsh than this at times.......
BetrayedMM Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Funny thing is, I of all people should be furious at the OP, all things considered, yet for some reason I'm not even disgusted. I don't get it. I should be. Maybe it's because the main difference between the OP and the stbx is that the OP has exhibited evidence of courage or integrity. Bah, who knows...
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Please be advised that the above two posters are OW and OM, respectively. They both were involved in an affair with someone who's married. So, now you know where your "support" is coming from. As they say, "birds of a feather, flock together!
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Funny thing is, I of all people should be furious at the OP, all things considered, yet for some reason I'm not even disgusted. I don't get it. I should be. Maybe it's because the main difference between the OP and the stbx is that the OP has exhibited evidence of courage or integrity. Bah, who knows... I've had 1 perhaps 2 cases like that, but I still didn't agree with their actions!
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 The better question is, who violated the vow of the marriage? You are. Things would have been different if you divorce him and then get involved with another man. But, that's not the case here. You had sex with anther man and then return to the marital bed that same night. That's so typical too, and they turn everthing around to make it look like it's their husbands fault that they cheated, BULLCRAP!
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Well, maybe you men should think twice about killing off your W's soul, bit by bit, before you go condemning her for seeking a little comfort and healing in someone else's arms. Which is the worse sin -- breaking the vow to "forsake all others" -- or breaking the one to "love, honor and cherish" each other? Marriage does not give you the right to treat another human being -- especially the one you profess to love above all others -- like your own personal slave and punching bag. That is true, however, two wrongs don't make a right!
Darth Vader Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Actually, they both did. What makes it so much worse for her just because sex was involved????? Emotional abandonment is breaking the vows too! If you're going by religious beliefs and the Bible-the husband actually has a higher calling in the marriage than the wife does. He's the spiritual leader of the family and has to answer to God for what kind of job he's done at that. He's also instructed to love his wife as Christ loved the church- which is an extremely high calling since He died for the church! He's to sacrifice himself for her. Really think about that. Oh, how many marriages would be so much better if each partner put the other first- all of the time! Women are sacrifical in nature- caretakers. What happens is that the wife does this for 10-15 years. She sacrifices everything for her husband and family- just knowing that she'll get that back. Eventually it comes to the point where the kids and the house are just not enough for her- and she's tired of giving and never getting anything in return. That's when her taker (according to marriagebuilders) begins to rear it's ugly head and insist on being catered to. The husband is to love his wife, as Christ loved the church. But no man is perfect in doing this. The wife is to honor her husband, sleeping with other men is about the most dishonorable thing a woman can do to her husband. Even God gives an out on the Infidelity thing.
Lookingforward Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Darth, I'm not sure what your point was of posting a quote of mine with a reply from Reverse - Not sure it comes across that mine was a reply to HIS post I can see where others may get the impression his reply was to me, and then extrapolate his words as being about my situation, and nothing could be further from the truth
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