Cobra_X30 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 That's horrible advice for a wife who still loves her husband and thinks he is a great guy. I think ookla has it very good but doesn't seem to realize it. ookla, do you know how many wifes out there living with cheaters, wife-beaters, drug-abusers, etc. who would LOVE to be in your position. What if you can never find a man like your husband, what if you miss him after you're seperated from him, but he moved on and is with another woman who later move in with him and introduced to your kids? Does it bother you picturing your husband with another woman whom he adores the way he adors you? ??? Do any of us really understand what drives female attraction? Maybe if her H was a drug addicted physically abusive guy he would be more attractive to her. Probably not though. Point is... it's not there. That Husband-Wife love is gone. What do YOU think she should do about it?
TheRain Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) ??? Do any of us really understand what drives female attraction? Maybe if her H was a drug addicted physically abusive guy he would be more attractive to her. Probably not though. Point is... it's not there. That Husband-Wife love is gone. What do YOU think she should do about it? Two Things: 1) Honesty. Tell her husband that she is on the verge of getting a divorce or leaving and be honest with him about the state of the marriage and communicate to him what she needs or wants from him. If she doesn't know what she needs or wants, she need to find that out first. 2) Seek professional help. By being honest with him, he will agree to counseling. Do these two things first and see where it leads. She has to be open and can't go in with hopelessness. Edited March 21, 2008 by TheRain
Mz. Pixie Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Two Things: 1) Honesty. Tell her husband that she is on the verge of getting a divorce or leaving and be honest with him about the state of the marriage and communicate to him what she needs or wants from him. If she doesn't know what she needs or wants, she need to find that out first. 2) Seek professional help. By being honest with him, he will agree to counseling. Do these two things first and see where it leads. She has to be open and can't go in with hopelessness. Yes, I tried one and two- repeatedly. Neither worked out for me.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Two Things: 1) Honesty. Tell her husband that she is on the verge of getting a divorce or leaving and be honest with him about the state of the marriage and communicate to him what she needs or wants from him. If she doesn't know what she needs or wants, she need to find that out first. 2) Seek professional help. By being honest with him, he will agree to conseling. Do these two things first and see where it leads. She has to be open and can't go in with hopelessness. Look, in a marriage communication styles are VERY important, and often overlooked at the beginning. The problems within these marriages has much less to do with who the H is as a man than it does how he makes his wife feel as a woman. If that makes sense. EY's husband did not make her feel good... in fact he made her feel bad. This was either because he was a hyper-critical jerk, or his communication style made her feel critisized. This applies similarly to Ookla! Does that make sense?
daisygirl Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Look, in a marriage communication styles are VERY important, and often overlooked at the beginning. The problems within these marriages has much less to do with who the H is as a man than it does how he makes his wife feel as a woman. If that makes sense. EY's husband did not make her feel good... in fact he made her feel bad. This was either because he was a hyper-critical jerk, or his communication style made her feel critisized. This applies similarly to Ookla! Does that make sense? Hijacking again.... Cobra, I know you didn't intend this for me, but this makes total sense to me!! So, thanks for the post now my 2 cents: My H and I have many issues, and this exact description is one of the major ones. Although I don't know these ladies' whole stories, so I am not totally comparing, I am learning that my H is actually being emotionally abusive towards me. While he may seem like a "good guy" to others; and, no, he's not cheating on me, physically abusing me, and he doesn't have any horrible addictions, it doesn't mean I (or anyone else) should stay because "it could be worse". Yeah, it could be worse, but I am 27 and have only been married 5 years....I think it could be better, too. Even if it means finding the better with just myself and my son (and of course my H in the picture as our son's father) Edited March 21, 2008 by daisygirl
Author EmotionallyYours Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Yes, I tried one and two- repeatedly. Neither worked out for me. I did too... However, if I am 100% honest with myself, not hard enough. I can be pretty bull-headed when I want to be, but in this case I wasn't. I have such a problem with relationship/emotional conflict and a fear of rocking the boat. As soon as my husband would get overly upset, I would back off and start saying things to make him feel better instead of drilling down further into the problem. The way I am combined with my husband's reactions of EXTREME defensiveness when I even hinted at criticism was not a good combination. He also would have a habit of breaking things when he would get mad. Knock over a jewelry box. Break a shelf. Kick the car. It was so nerve-wracking because "normally" he was so nice and mild-tempered. However, his outbursts were just frequent enough to keep me walking on egg-shells. If the dog had an accident, he would normally be fine. However, every once in a while he would punch the wall or scare the heck out of the dog. I wish I would have had the courage to just keep at it and make him understand why I was upset or why his behavior was so upsetting to me. He would have an outburst and be fine 15 minutes later. I would carry it with me for a couple of days. While it festered, I found him unattractive to the point of repulsion. Conversely, when he was being his "nice" self (which was usually the case) he would be so good and so kind to almost a ridiculous level. He would tell cute stories about the pets or talk incessantly about other peoples kids. I'm just not into these conversations. I just wasn't all that interested. I'm not a "cute & cuddly" person. Maybe I'm cold and callous... I don't know, but it would bore me to tears! This turned me off too :-( This pattern over and over and over the course of months, years... I should have handled it early on in our marriage instead of letting it go on. How do you tell someone that they're just boring though? It was always either nice and boring or angry. Why couldn't he be passionate about things in a good way ever? His passion was always in his anger. I was so afraid to express this because I felt it was attacking his basic character. Oh well, water under the bridge... Since I've been in therapy, my new thing is to be completely honest with people in all aspects of my life. Since I was a teenager I have always based everything I say on what people WANT to hear. I also usually do what people want too. When I was not doing what people wanted of me, I would hide it. I am trying to be a straight shooter now and try to resolve conflict early on at work, at home, etc... Its working well with the kids actually and keeping them from fighting as much. In my new relationship it is pretty easy to do this because he is completely, sometimes startlingly honest about things. I like it so much better this way.
Author EmotionallyYours Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Look, in a marriage communication styles are VERY important, and often overlooked at the beginning. The problems within these marriages has much less to do with who the H is as a man than it does how he makes his wife feel as a woman. If that makes sense. EY's husband did not make her feel good... in fact he made her feel bad. This was either because he was a hyper-critical jerk, or his communication style made her feel critisized. This applies similarly to Ookla! Does that make sense? Cobra... btw... first off... you know I absolutely adore you . You always make so much sense and one of the few people who will change their mind in a discussion if someone puts forth a really good argument. I also really appreciate the fact that you were always able to at least try to see me as a person. If I recall, you made a lot of assumptions about me in the beginning and saw my actions much like your mother's. You dug deeper though and saw the differences and had compassion. I thank you for that. OK... back to the point I was originally going to make. Communication styles and problems need to be addressed IN THE BEGINNING. We had horrible communication and since I did not address it, it colored the rest of our marriage and I just stopped fighting. Fighting is not a bad thing. It is a normal and healthy part of a relationship. However, if the way you fight causes you too much pain because it is done in an inappropriate, unhealthy way, then the relationships wilts & finally dies.
Meaplus3 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 I did too... However, if I am 100% honest with myself, not hard enough. I can be pretty bull-headed when I want to be, but in this case I wasn't. I have such a problem with relationship/emotional conflict and a fear of rocking the boat. As soon as my husband would get overly upset, I would back off and start saying things to make him feel better instead of drilling down further into the problem. The way I am combined with my husband's reactions of EXTREME defensiveness when I even hinted at criticism was not a good combination. He also would have a habit of breaking things when he would get mad. Knock over a jewelry box. Break a shelf. Kick the car. It was so nerve-wracking because "normally" he was so nice and mild-tempered. However, his outbursts were just frequent enough to keep me walking on egg-shells. If the dog had an accident, he would normally be fine. However, every once in a while he would punch the wall or scare the heck out of the dog. I wish I would have had the courage to just keep at it and make him understand why I was upset or why his behavior was so upsetting to me. He would have an outburst and be fine 15 minutes later. I would carry it with me for a couple of days. While it festered, I found him unattractive to the point of repulsion. Conversely, when he was being his "nice" self (which was usually the case) he would be so good and so kind to almost a ridiculous level. He would tell cute stories about the pets or talk incessantly about other peoples kids. I'm just not into these conversations. I just wasn't all that interested. I'm not a "cute & cuddly" person. Maybe I'm cold and callous... I don't know, but it would bore me to tears! This turned me off too :-( This pattern over and over and over the course of months, years... I should have handled it early on in our marriage instead of letting it go on. How do you tell someone that they're just boring though? It was always either nice and boring or angry. Why couldn't he be passionate about things in a good way ever? His passion was always in his anger. I was so afraid to express this because I felt it was attacking his basic character. Oh well, water under the bridge... Since I've been in therapy, my new thing is to be completely honest with people in all aspects of my life. Since I was a teenager I have always based everything I say on what people WANT to hear. I also usually do what people want too. When I was not doing what people wanted of me, I would hide it. I am trying to be a straight shooter now and try to resolve conflict early on at work, at home, etc... Its working well with the kids actually and keeping them from fighting as much. In my new relationship it is pretty easy to do this because he is completely, sometimes startlingly honest about things. I like it so much better this way. Ey, This post just brought tears to my eyes..golly I can tell it is so very very straight from your heart. I can relate to so much you have said here. You sound strong..keep up that strength because it will prove you well. AP:)
Author EmotionallyYours Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Ey, This post just brought tears to my eyes..golly I can tell it is so very very straight from your heart. I can relate to so much you have said here. You sound strong..keep up that strength because it will prove you well. AP:) There were months and maybe even years where I really didn't think anyone could ever relate to me. I'm so glad you understand. I really don't feel very strong most of the time, so it is a nice thing to hear. Stronger every day right? We all got to keep working at it.
Kasan Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 OK... back to the point I was originally going to make. Communication styles and problems need to be addressed IN THE BEGINNING. We had horrible communication and since I did not address it, it colored the rest of our marriage and I just stopped fighting. Fighting is not a bad thing. It is a normal and healthy part of a relationship. However, if the way you fight causes you too much pain because it is done in an inappropriate, unhealthy way, then the relationships wilts & finally dies. Very well said, and I whole heartily agree with you, especially, if when you fight you can resolve the issue. If not you are back at square one thus perpetuating the dysfunction.
TheRain Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 ookla, if you absolutely want a divorce do so, but, keep your integrity, don't cheat. If you do, your name will be tainted, you and everyone around you will lose respect for you, and you will be ashamed of your actions for a long time, if not forever, because one of the absolute worst thing a wife can do to her husband is to have sex with another man.
annieo Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 its sad what marriage has become................ No, it's sad what people let their marriages become. My ex h was a controlling jerk, wouldn't let me have access to a bank account when I was at home with our kids and had quit working (which we had agreed upon), wouldn't give me $5 to buy food or diapers ("We'll go together tonight"), told me how much water to use in the bath, how much toilet paper to use after going to the bathroom, blamed all of our problems on PMS, the "bad" influence of my friends (who couldn't believe how he treated me), the "fact" that I was a spoiled, immature child, on and on it went. It never had anything to do with him. For years, and it got worse over time. And he refused mc because he didn't think we had a problem, just that I had a problem, because he was such a catch So I fell out of love with him, then fell in love with someone else and left him. In retrospect, I wish I had had the balls to leave before I met my current h, but I was beginning to think I really WAS useless, couldn't cope on my own. Thank God I met my h, who saw the good in me, made me feel like I was worth something, could do anything I set my mind to. And he still does help me to feel that way, when I need encouragement. After leaving h, I went back to school, got a great job and am now the person I was before my first marriage. Yeah, I did the big, obvious bad thing by cheating (for a week, I came clean after one week) and leaving, by my ex did a million little, insidious soul-destroying things. Whose the guilty one then? Who really killed our marriage? I say at the very least that we are both to blame, although he'll never admit that.
TheRain Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Who really killed our marriage? The better question is, who violated the vow of the marriage? Whose the guilty one then? You are. Things would have been different if you divorce him and then get involved with another man. But, that's not the case here. You had sex with anther man and then return to the marital bed that same night.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Cobra... btw... first off... you know I absolutely adore you . You always make so much sense and one of the few people who will change their mind in a discussion if someone puts forth a really good argument. I also really appreciate the fact that you were always able to at least try to see me as a person. If I recall, you made a lot of assumptions about me in the beginning and saw my actions much like your mother's. You dug deeper though and saw the differences and had compassion. I thank you for that. OK... back to the point I was originally going to make. Communication styles and problems need to be addressed IN THE BEGINNING. We had horrible communication and since I did not address it, it colored the rest of our marriage and I just stopped fighting. Fighting is not a bad thing. It is a normal and healthy part of a relationship. However, if the way you fight causes you too much pain because it is done in an inappropriate, unhealthy way, then the relationships wilts & finally dies. Yes... your right. At first you reminded me much of my parents. However, your actually pretty much the opposite. The only similarities lie on the surface. It did take some time to see that. For your marriage it wasn't just communication styles. You also both had wildly different needs, and were unable to accommodate each other. This is why I believe in the end your stbxH will be happier with someone else. If I were to wager a guess you need kindness, independence, peace, and someone who is good with nonverbal communication. Your pretty good at "feeling" what you need, but I think you should really sit down and get a more cerebral understanding of who you are. So, KEEP LOOKING! I know you already have a guy in your head... but you have a history of missing the mark. I think once you get a grip on what you need, the type of guy you want will become crystal clear. The real life percentages stand firmly against Mr. RightNow... please keep that in mind. Ey, This post just brought tears to my eyes..golly I can tell it is so very very straight from your heart. I can relate to so much you have said here. You sound strong..keep up that strength because it will prove you well. AP:) Also a very good point. Many people who are not perceived as strong contain an abundance of it.
annieo Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Things would have been different if you divorce him and then get involved with another man. But, that's not the case here. You had sex with anther man and then return to the marital bed that same night. Sorry but you're wrong about at least one thing, I never returned. I slept downstairs on the couch from the point of adultery, to truth, to leaving. And it wasn't the first time I had slept on the couch. The death bell had been ringing over our heads for a few months. I'm not trying to excuse myself, and the worst judgement you can inflict on me, I have already done to myself. But I'm not sorry about leaving. It was the right thing to do. As I/you said, I should have done it without having becoming involved with anyone else. Absolutely, ideally, truly right. But I knew that the OM was the one I had been waiting for my whole life. Selfish of me, maybe, but I wasn't willing to give that up.
Storyrider Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 For your marriage it wasn't just communication styles. You also both had wildly different needs, and were unable to accommodate each other. This is why I believe in the end your stbxH will be happier with someone else. I'm following this thread with interest. Wildly different needs--and sometimes a need that you once rated as low priority shifts to high priority. Getting that need met suddenly feels urgent. Can a spouse change and grow to meet your current needs? In EY's case, the answer was no. Cobra, you mentioned Mustang. From what I've seen recently, Mustang has decided her needs aren't serious enough to warrant a change (or that she defines them as "wants" more than "needs") at least for the time being. This is where some may say marriage takes hard work. Others will say, if you feel no desire to relate physically to your husband, don't waste your time and his. Get out. It is so situational and very confusing.
OpenBook Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 ookla, if you absolutely want a divorce do so, but, keep your integrity, don't cheat. If you do, your name will be tainted, you and everyone around you will lose respect for you, and you will be ashamed of your actions for a long time, if not forever, because one of the absolute worst thing a wife can do to her husband is to have sex with another man. Well, maybe you men should think twice about killing off your W's soul, bit by bit, before you go condemning her for seeking a little comfort and healing in someone else's arms. Which is the worse sin -- breaking the vow to "forsake all others" -- or breaking the one to "love, honor and cherish" each other? Marriage does not give you the right to treat another human being -- especially the one you profess to love above all others -- like your own personal slave and punching bag.
Arch Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Well, maybe you men should think twice about killing off your W's soul, bit by bit, before you go condemning her for seeking a little comfort and healing in someone else's arms. Which is the worse sin -- breaking the vow to "forsake all others" -- or breaking the one to "love, honor and cherish" each other? Marriage does not give you the right to treat another human being -- especially the one you profess to love above all others -- like your own personal slave and punching bag. Outside of cases of abusive, I find the excuse "I'm just not in love with him/her any more" to not be a good enough reason for divorce or cheating, and even in cases of abuse cheating is still unacceptable in my eyes...... Don't get married if you don't plan on being with the person for the rest of your life.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Well, maybe you men should think twice about killing off your W's soul, bit by bit, before you go condemning her for seeking a little comfort and healing in someone else's arms. Which is the worse sin -- breaking the vow to "forsake all others" -- or breaking the one to "love, honor and cherish" each other? Marriage does not give you the right to treat another human being -- especially the one you profess to love above all others -- like your own personal slave and punching bag. I'm just going to say that your wrong. Those are not equal. I underlined the worse of the two for clarity! How many times will you fail to "love, honor and cherish" just as he does? Is there a certain ratio which makes it equal to adultery in your mind? Or are you claiming perfection in this category?
TheRain Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 I'm just going to say that your wrong. Those are not equal. I underlined the worse of the two for clarity! How many times will you fail to "love, honor and cherish" just as he does? Is there a certain ratio which makes it equal to adultery in your mind? Or are you claiming perfection in this category? Exactly correct.
TheRain Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Outside of cases of abusive, I find the excuse "I'm just not in love with him/her any more" to not be a good enough reason for divorce or cheating, and even in cases of abuse cheating is still unacceptable in my eyes...... Don't get married if you don't plan on being with the person for the rest of your life. I totally agree with you Arch.
Lookingforward Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 I'm just going to say that your wrong. Those are not equal. I underlined the worse of the two for clarity! How many times will you fail to "love, honor and cherish" just as he does? Is there a certain ratio which makes it equal to adultery in your mind? Or are you claiming perfection in this category? forsaking all others does not just mean no adultery, it means you put your spouse above family and friends as well, and business and hobbies and you name it, yet how many times do we see M in trouble because that aspect is not adhered to ?
ookla_2 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Don't get married if you don't plan on being with the person for the rest of your life. I'm sure that most people enter into marriage fully intending and believing that it is going to be forever. I know I did. And I'm still in it. I never dreamed, 16 years ago, that I would be this unhappy in my marriage...how could I have foreseen that at 20, when life was perfect, and I knew everything there was to know about everything? I understand what you are saying, I just think that it's a very simplistic way of looking at something that isn't that simple.
Lookingforward Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Don't get married if you don't plan on being with the person for the rest of your life. The 'rest of your life' used to be 10-20 years, things change
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