Stop sabotaging your fellow OW

[OWoman]

It is unbelievable that these women have so little respect for themselves that they would willingly sleep with someone they know is sleeping with someone else just to say they have someone in their lives.

 

This is either delusional or just ill-informed. If you'd read through threads on this board you'd realise that most OWs have their choice of men - we're hardly desperate. We're not settling for part-time shares in a MM to get a bit of action where otherwise there'd be none. We're choosing a guy who does it for us over dozens of others who want us, but we don't want them.

 

Meanwhile if they meet at SG and the SG cheats they will be ready to tear his head off. Why? They apparently don’t have a problem with the men they love sleeping with someone else, why would they ever expect monogamy?

 

Actually I have never desired nor practiced monogamy - though I am currently sexually exclusive with MM - even though I've routinely been the recipient of it.

 

Then you have women that really believe they rescued their man from a bad situation and they weren’t wrong for cheating because the woman was a dog anyway. At the same time they ignore the fact that the MM they love has horrible taste in women and jumped from one shady relationship into another with no break and no time to figure out what it is about him that leads him to drama-filled relationships. When he does figure it out he’ll leave the OW because she likely enabled his problem as opposed to providing solutions. That is why these OW/MM relationships generally do not last. Since the man is the one who has gotten to do the choosing he will eventually choose another OW over the first OW because he’s got it like that. Why women choose to get involved in destructive relationships like this is a mystery to me.

 

I'm not sure if you'd consider my R with MM one of the above? His M certainly was abusive, but I don't claim to have "rescued" him from it and I certainly would not have gotten involved with him had I known about the abuse. But he claimed to be happy in his M and to love his W and it was only down the road that I learned the truth from others - and he learned the truth from counselling. And it's certainly not my role to have "provided solutions" - that's between him and his counsellor.

 

Right - so my MM figured out why he had a "horrible taste in women" - or a taste for horrible women - in counselling, so I should now expect him to leave me? Wow. Weird that he left his W then, that we're stronger than ever, that his counsellor's really pleased he's gotten himself a "normal" woman and that he's broken that destructive pattern. Could it be that change just perhaps MIGHT be possible - given the desire to change, the right conditions and sufficient effort?

 

I suppose not - because then some of us might get our happy endings, and that would negate the perspective that these situations ALWAYS end in misery, and then the universe would have to implode.

[Jess-Belle]

Right - so my MM figured out why he had a "horrible taste in women" - or a taste for horrible women - in counselling, so I should now expect him to leave me?

 

I think what Tame might have been referring to is that some people have relationship patterns. Like Carrie once mused in Sex and the City, "Do we wind up going out with the same person over and over again?"

 

I know I did -- I kept picking emotionally and physically unavailable men. Even though it made me miserable, my fear of being too close drove me to do it. It's all pretty subconscious, and I think may usually stem from something learned in childhood.

[trifecta]

Whiteflower-I did not give any stats with regards to the OW and second marriages.

Second marriages have a higher failure rate than first.

[MimiMe]

And now you generalize from your experience to the whole of the human population? Hm.

 

This is funny. Even 200 years ago, the whole concept of marriage was less a 'romantic love for life' thingy as most people see it today and more a economic union... with different sets of standards for what is acceptable behavior and not.

 

 

 

Some do, some don't. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's just life.

 

 

 

 

People who use celebrity trash as role models are gullible idiots.

 

And what's so great about a family model (traditional christian family) in which women are disempowered and unequal? (And I'm asking this as a man...)

 

 

Traditional Christian Family= not mine. I actually don't have a " nuclear family" any longer.... but Christianity is not my denomination and it's not cookie-cutter for a standard family, or is it?

Where in my post did I say that a family model was a traditional christian home? using the word "God" mislead you?

 

I personally don't come from a background where women in my family are disempowered and unequal, perhaps my race is, but my upbringing was not.

 

You are absolutely right about celebrity role models and I share the feeling, but unfortunately we are seeing a generation that print/televised/radio media is affecting as a whole. Not only with romantic affairs, there are also health, mental and social issues that are glorified by society today. I must add that it also all starts from home.

 

Dont know your story... (which I will perhaps take the time to read, in the near future) so I wont go into asking which character you played in your story.

 

I am fairly new here, and I am not trying to generalize for the entire population but some here and in the non-cyber world that are caught in the OM/OW position most the time sound the same. Too quick to blame the W/H for the A taking place. The MM/MW at times is made to be victim, which should be exonerated from fault just because... blah, blah,blah.

(and this could also be reversed to the W/H version of things)

 

Chances are that one person is a liar and looks for attention and gets it.

Chances are that in fact they did married the wrong person, and fell in love at the wrong time ( timing is everything!!).

Chances are 1,000 different things!

 

There are plenty of other human beings that take a more mature and cleaner approach to a situation like this (and that's a needle in a haystack!) in which they are sincere. Wish it came in a bottle, so W/H/OW/OM and whoever in between wouldnt have to go through all the dramz that an A brings to all the characters involved.

[MimiMe]

If you really have never come across any IRL, perhaps you ought to get out more? We're everywhere, once you start looking.

 

I'm a 30yr old born and raised in NYC, say no more.

 

You see your tight community of marriages that come from affairs and all of that you mentioned above... well think of living around the same, but eliminating all the second marriages to (ow/om) and creating 2,3 families.

From my personal environment (work/school/neighborhood) I will be a liar if I said that this is norm around me. Speaking for self, NO I dont know many families that come from situations like this. WELL BESIDES MY OWN NOW! and the ones that do, uhm... they've had it rough being forgotten.

I have couple of homegirls that have the label of "homewrecking", they have not been forgotten as that. Hey, maybe when we are 40-50 (no pun intended, LOL!)

 

I will be the second person in the past 3 generations, in a family of about 75 immediate relatives that will have to go through a divorce. The first being that my uncle was cheated on.

Can't say either that none have had A, but not to the point of walking out on their families for someone else. (guess this is where the term "ISH happens" applies)

 

On my stbxH side... he'll be the FIRST person in 3 generations to not only go through a divorce, but to have a 1st child out wedlock (from a previous relationship), to marry outside his race and go through a prison term. I guess I got stuck with the BLACK SHEEP!!! LOL! (not funny, but it is what it is...)

 

The same way that you have these types of "how things happened"- same way other people have it on the other side of the fence.

It is what it is...

But there is one true thing, an A chips the heart of at least one innocent person. It being the OW/OM, W/H or children involved.

Nobody DESERVES to be put in that place.

Edited March 10, 2008 by MimiMe

[malaclypse]

Traditional Christian Family= not mine. I actually don't have a " nuclear family" any longer.... but Christianity is not my denomination and it's not cookie-cutter for a standard family, or is it?

Where in my post did I say that a family model was a traditional christian home? using the word "God" mislead you?

...a family, like it was mandated by God and stablished by society.

At least in the west, the family model 'mandated by god and established by society' is the traditional christian family. But it doesn't really matter, the big monotheistic religions propose similar models...

 

I personally don't come from a background where women in my family are disempowered and unequal, perhaps my race is, but my upbringing was not.

I didn't relate this to you directly, but to the spirit of the traditional model you referred to.

 

I am fairly new here, and I am not trying to generalize for the entire population

Yeah, it was more of a tongue-in-cheek reminder that just because you haven't seen any such success stories doesn't mean they don't happen.

 

but some here and in the non-cyber world that are caught in the OM/OW position most the time sound the same. Too quick to blame the W/H for the A taking place. The MM/MW at times is made to be victim, which should be exonerated from fault just because... blah, blah,blah.

(and this could also be reversed to the W/H version of things)

What I have seen is that usually its the CS who blame the BS, and they use this to justify their behavior to themselves and to their OW/OM.

[MimiMe]

A commentary:

 

 

After all these years I have learned to finally see what cheating was to me: an addiction, an addiction to the ego boost, the high of meeting someone new, someone to get to know all over again. It's like a mini-rebirth... you have no history, no problems, no nothing. This AP has so much energy, so much affection to give you. They hold no resentments, no anger... all those problems in your current relationship, the ones you're sick to death of trying to make your SO/spouse understand... those are erased.

And another important aspect... it was my way to escape the pain of a relationship... my fears of getting close to someone and all that it entails. When you fall in love, you become so vulnerable... the things your SO does develops a capacity to touch you at a deeper level. Which is nice when it's all happiness and romance, but when you have problems... well, it would scare me to death. It would feel like I'm drowning, or suffocating, and my instinct was to kill that feeling off asap.

 

 

HOLY SMOKES! Have heard something like this before... LOL!

Now let me ask you something (this place is like the fainting couch minus the co-pay!) and let's say the person that you started an A with makes you feeli like all that ^^^^^, right... and then you self-consume into this A, then the OM/OW becomes more suffocating and than what your H/W ever was, starts acting and claiming rights that he/she shouldnt act out on... you end your M, now OW/OM is the BF/GF, what you think is going to happen then? Fairy tale ending?

I just want your opinion.

That is what I am here for... not hear opinions/ and give mine.

And you know what they say about opinions.

(sorry to sidetrack the subject)

[MimiMe]

doesn't really matter, the big monotheistic religions propose similar models...

 

quote]

 

Glad to clear that! I come from a land located in the western side of this lil stained ball; (that's what my son used to call it), yet beliefs differ apt to apt. Please dont tell me that broken families due to infidelity should just be celebrated and taken as "Oh well- sucks to be you".

[MimiMe]

The kids do have contact with their biological parents - but socially, they've dropped out of the same social circles that their xH or xW inhabits and have moved into their own separate worlds. It's neither sad nor happy - they've exercised a choice not to share a social space with their x's new partner, and so the social memory of them having once been there has faded over time. That's just how it is.

 

So they are forgotten because they chose to remove themselves from the social circle? which could make it simple for new family/ community members to not know that the W of Bill or the H of Mary was once their OM/OW? I see...

[Jess-Belle]

HOLY SMOKES! Have heard something like this before... LOL!

Now let me ask you something (this place is like the fainting couch minus the co-pay!) and let's say the person that you started an A with makes you feeli like all that ^^^^^, right... and then you self-consume into this A, then the OM/OW becomes more suffocating and than what your H/W ever was, starts acting and claiming rights that he/she shouldnt act out on... you end your M, now OW/OM is the BF/GF, what you think is going to happen then? Fairy tale ending?

I just want your opinion.

That is what I am here for... not hear opinions/ and give mine.

And you know what they say about opinions.

(sorry to sidetrack the subject)

 

Well I've had a couple of different things happen. During most of the "early years", the AP, who I formed no emotional attachment to, usually served to drive me back to the arms of my main bf feeling new and refreshed. The AP generally reminded me that there are plenty of douchebags out there worse than the one I was with, so I should be actually grateful to have what I have. [The reason I believe it turned out this way goes back to what I said in another post on another thread: the principle that my SO will have most of what I want, but not all. Say they have 85%. The AP wil fill the remaning 15%. Since all I am valuing them on is the 15%, they don't stand a chance against my SO anyway. Eventually I decide I'll take the 85%. The 15% is a temporary fix.]

(After getting involved in an A or two my emotional attachment to my SO would take a beating and drive down the 85% desirability to the point where someone could come in and replace him. And then we're back to square 1.)

 

Do you see the erroneous thinking? My desire for affair = sign that I am unhappy with the relationship. Therefore the affair won't fix it, I was unhappy before affair and I will be afterwards. The proper solution was to end the relationship, not look for drugs to escape on.

 

In my current situation, my bf did become more suffocating than my ex by far. He tried all kinds of things to get me to let go of that relationship. TBH all it did was make me pissed off. I wasn't going to end my relationship just because he wanted me to. If I'd have done that, I would have wound up blaming him for any consequential unhappiness. So I did things at my own rate. Thinbgs are going well but he got burned in the process of waiting.

I tell you, it's a fluke really, things only worked out happily because I was galvanized back into reality and into healing, and because, cheesy as it sounds, he was the only one who for whatever reason stole my heart. otherwise he would have been just another casualty.

[malaclypse]

Please dont tell me that broken families due to infidelity should just be celebrated and taken as "Oh well- sucks to be you".

 

??? How did you get that idea...

 

 

But infidelity happens and some families break up. Some people are happier in the relationship with the former OP than they ever were in their M.

 

Broad generalizations never helped anyone...

 

(except of course for this specific generalization on generalizations )

[MimiMe]

I never considered myself the OW as I met him as he was leaving his wife and didn't get involved with him until after he had, but as Owoman said, I've been told that doesn't matter Iwas still an OW - oh well, doesn't change the way I see it, and that's what counts.

 

 

"As you were told"- Don't know much about you, but from the post that I have read from you... this confuses me. You seemed too strong minded and grounded within your own situation to go for that!

[MimiMe]

Well I've had a couple of different things happen. During most of the "early years", the AP, who I formed no emotional attachment to, usually served to drive me back to the arms of my main bf feeling new and refreshed. The AP generally reminded me that there are plenty of douchebags out there worse than the one I was with, so I should be actually grateful to have what I have. [The reason I believe it turned out this way goes back to what I said in another post on another thread: the principle that my SO will have most of what I want, but not all. Say they have 85%. The AP wil fill the remaning 15%. Since all I am valuing them on is the 15%, they don't stand a chance against my SO anyway. Eventually I decide I'll take the 85%. The 15% is a temporary fix.]

(After getting involved in an A or two my emotional attachment to my SO would take a beating and drive down the 85% desirability to the point where someone could come in and replace him. And then we're back to square 1.)

 

Do you see the erroneous thinking? My desire for affair = sign that I am unhappy with the relationship. Therefore the affair won't fix it, I was unhappy before affair and I will be afterwards. The proper solution was to end the relationship, not look for drugs to escape on.

 

In my current situation, my bf did become more suffocating than my ex by far. He tried all kinds of things to get me to let go of that relationship. TBH all it did was make me pissed off. I wasn't going to end my relationship just because he wanted me to. If I'd have done that, I would have wound up blaming him for any consequential unhappiness. So I did things at my own rate. Thinbgs are going well but he got burned in the process of waiting.

I tell you, it's a fluke really, things only worked out happily because I was galvanized back into reality and into healing, and because, cheesy as it sounds, he was the only one who for whatever reason stole my heart. otherwise he would have been just another casualty.

 

 

Thanks for your response. Dont want to sidetrack this subject any longer, cause Lordy knows that I have much to share or compare.

Sucks when 75% was worthless compared to 25% ( that was what I was told). And Math is one thing I thought I knew about. LOL!

[Lookingforward]

"As you were told"- Don't know much about you, but from the post that I have read from you... this confuses me. You seemed too strong minded and grounded within your own situation to go for that!

 

LOL, just cos I was 'told' doesn't mean I took it on board...trust me

[White Flower]

Whiteflower-I did not give any stats with regards to the OW and second marriages.

Second marriages have a higher failure rate than first.

I added my thoughts on it because so many people throw in 'stats' without offering any back-up for anyone to verify. I also added what I anticipated would be mentioned later. They always seem to go hand-in-hand on these boards.

[OWoman]

some A's do end in a real R between the parties.

 

Mine has always been a "real R"

[jj2007]

Individuals who post sugar glazed fairytale “love conquers all” encouragement and CS-apologists, you are doing a grand disservice to your fellow OW.

 

Encouraging OW to believe that CS is a lovestruck innocent is precisely the kind of saccharine mentality that permits OW to be exploited and victimized by those MM who are not primarily concerned with the emotional wellbeing of OW.

 

It seems logical that MM’s actions revolve around you, the OW. But take heed, a cheater’s actions and decisions generally revolve around someone more important: themselves.

 

A cheater must decide which decision will yield the best results for him/her in the long run. That’s all it is usually about: “What do I stand to gain from this?”

 

Plenty of times, they don’t want to decide. They don’t even want to think about deciding. They will utilize whatever tactics they can come up with to buy time. Sometimes even they themselves believe that buying time will eventually lead to a decision. Sometimes they figure they will buy time until someone finds out or gives up and leaves.

 

Cheating is, generally, about convenience. Cheaters can be amazingly crafty, manipulative, and deceitful to the point where it is second nature and assimilated to their own perception as normal or even non-existent. They must justify all actions to themselves in order to thrive.

 

Is it possible that it is a one-time cheater with a heart of gold who married the wrong person and now really wants you, his newly discovered soulmate? Sure. But pretty likely, it isn’t. It’s got nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them. And nothing you can do can change the type of person you are dealing with.

 

You also don’t know what hidden issues could be fueling a cheater. Perhaps they are flat out hedonists, or sociopaths. Perhaps they are emotional cowards. Perhaps they are love addicts. Perhaps they are afraid of intimacy. Perhaps they choose to run away from problems rather than face them head on. These things aren’t going to go away by changing partners.

 

So you still want to take your chances and try to wind up with this individual? You want to survive with your heart and sanity intact?

 

Do yourselves a favor and realize the kind of person you’re probably dealing with. Know the risks. Know the statistics. Protect your heart. Don’t get too close. Don’t be swept away by the beautiful word-scapes that they paint for you. Stop rationalizing everything they say. Stop taking their “side”, because it’s likely they are not on yours. Know that YOUR logic does not equal their logic.

 

So, encouragers and apologists, help protect your fellow OW. If she is compelled to follow this path she has chosen, encourage her to do so with unbiased eyes wide open.

 

Sincerely,

 

A Former Serial Cake-Eater for 15 Years

 

It is so nice to see a voice of reason on this board! You are awesome!

I'm sad to say however, the people that need your reasoning the most will become defensive and ignore.

 

Best of luck though! Some people are gaining knowledge and insight from it, myself included! Thankyou!

[MimiMe]

Yes Jess-. Coming from a stbxW thanks to OW being a pest, that not even a restraining order or prison bars kept her away (well that's really the fault of the scum bag of my stbxH) I endorse your post.

 

It's "head shacking" for someone like me (that BTW- was not the fat, slob, unattractive, clingy, uneducated, needy, low self-esteem, worthless, psychotic, just for the kids type W that some here have mentioned their MM having) to read some of these stories. OW that perhaps have success stories- In which the now H or BF has never cheated... I pray that you out-live the legacy. Karma is unavoidable! You just may see it next life time, because odds are that you and your SM caused someone (W, kids, relatives, the dog...) some sort of pain.

 

I lost everything that one time was really valuable and kept everything that is now appraisable. But it for sure didn't kill me! On the contrary, it made me stronger and taught me to learn what I will accept or wont out of ANYONE (bf, H, friends, F8ck buddies, relatives) in life.

[michaelk]

IF this is true, the A won't go on for long. A man/woman who realizes they've married the wrong person WILL divorce and go be with their so-called 'soulmate.'

 

This isn't so when children are involved.

[whichwayisup]

True. But if there are kids involved and MM/MW really wants out, they'll do it the proper way and not let the A go on and on while they continue to sit on the fence.

 

The thing is, is the person they married really the wrong person? Or is it just that they allowed themselves to fall for someone else for various reasons and what they have isn't new and shiny anymore and someone 'better' came along in their eyes...

[MimiMe]

True. But if there are kids involved and MM/MW really wants out, they'll do it the proper way and not let the A go on and on while they continue to sit on the fence.

 

The thing is, is the person they married really the wrong person? Or is it just that they allowed themselves to fall for someone else for various reasons and what they have isn't new and shiny anymore and someone 'better' came along in their eyes...

 

 

Or like I was told... "I have those sparks with her". Sparks?!??! Let's see how far in life "sparks" going to get you.

[White Flower]

Jess, thanks for the update and for being so honest and introspective. I'm sure there are other serial cheaters who can gain a lot from your light on the subject. You've learned so much about your kind of cheating and on affairs in general. And I appreciate the fact that you understand there are other perspectives on affairs, different types and categories of them, and that you post without judgment or blanket phrases that keep some people so closed-minded. You're on your way, babe.

[malaclypse]

After 15 years of being vile, you change to a level of behavior that most people expect as baseline from any decent human...and yet feel entitled to bonus points? Prefential treatment?

 

I certainly didn't notice her asking for any pats on the back in her post, and she did make the point that she was speaking in general terms; that some A's do end in a real R between the parties.

 

It always amuses me when people put words in poster's mouths and/or choose to ignore portions of a post.

 

Ok, I re-read all the relevant post and I don't know where I got that one from...

 

So, sorry, Jess-Belle.

 

However, it also showed me that my gloating comments were right-on.

[Jess-Belle]

It is so nice to see a voice of reason on this board! You are awesome!

I'm sad to say however, the people that need your reasoning the most will become defensive and ignore.

 

Best of luck though! Some people are gaining knowledge and insight from it, myself included! Thankyou!

 

Thank you, I am glad my post was of some help to you

[Jess-Belle]

Ok, I re-read all the relevant post and I don't know where I got that one from...

 

So, sorry, Jess-Belle.

 

However, it also showed me that my gloating comments were right-on.

 

OK, OK... I am deeply sorry that I am pleased with my own progress.