Author Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't see that at all. Maybe it's how each of us views things, and our personal experiences surrounding the subject matter, that sheds a certain light (or darkness) on what we read. That, is an excellent point. Link to post Share on other sites
JMC Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 OK J-B, I can understand that....thanks for explaining and not getting defensive. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 No problem Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 As a final point people I would like to point out that despite the terrible depiction in my initial post, I saw none of those things when I was living through it. I saw myself as the deprived, unloved, badly treated person that many of you see and defend in your APs. A lot of my boyfriends treated me like dirt. They were emotionally cold, too tired for sex, etc. What I wrote in the first post is the truth of myself as what I now know. Despite what the men in my life with me did, I still chose to lie and deceive. Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Prevention of anything would be solely a bonus. For what it is worth. Your story as well as some others' have strengthened my resolve to never find myself in such a situation. I don't need to jump off that bridge. However, I am grateful to those who come out of the other side with a greater understanding of how affairs, and cheating, for the most part, ultimately hurt everyone involved. Link to post Share on other sites
JMC Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I can NOT help it....Underpants, your name makes me collapse into uncontrollable laughing...and that icon with those green underpants...LOLLLLLL I have a very immature weird sense of humor. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 That's a good observation. I suppose I could say I am not "only" happy. I'm happy, and relieved, that I didn't self-destruct, yes, and that I will no longer hurt others like I used to. But I'm angry at myself as well, I'm disappointed in myself for my decisions. And living through precisely what I was doing to others for so long -- a betrayal -- I also cope with tremendous pain. This, I expect, would naturally show up in what I say. It is triggered when I see who I used to be, when people utter my same exact words and phrases and excuses, when I see people blind as I was as to how they were mutilating the heart of an unseen stranger. I am still getting over that part. One day I will forgive myself. It is a long process, I suspect.Jesse, Jesse, You may not be happy - after all, there is no such thing as constant, uninterrupted happiness- just moments - but at least you are not day-in day-out miserable. I know the bliss of relief from finally disengaging from a toxic relationship - be it an affair or a marriage or a just a relationship. You don't need to forgive yourself for making a very human mistake. The fact alone that you have journeyed so far is enough. Some never even take the first step. Marlena Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 P.S. It's not even a mistake. Just a human experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 P.S. It's not even a mistake. Just a human experience. Thank you for the kind words. I suppose as we all know, we can be our own harshest critics. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thank you for the kind words. I suppose as we all know, we can be our own harshest critics. Yes, don't I ever know! When you are feeling this way, think of all the wisdom you have gained..how far you have come..and take comfort in knowing that, unlike some people who never question their thoughts or actions, you are learning and reaching not only new heights of self-awareness but empathy for others as well. This is living a rich, meaningful life. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Yes, don't I ever know! When you are feeling this way, think of all the wisdom you have gained..how far you have come..and take comfort in knowing that, unlike some people who never question their thoughts or actions, you are learning and reaching not only new heights of self-awareness but empathy for others as well. This is living a rich, meaningful life. Yes, this is very, very true! I was never one used to emotional pain... I was dealt a fair share in childhood so I coped by escaping into a cold, numb persona. My conscience was but a whisper, if that. And now to feel again, it is unfamiliar, uncomfortable. Granted feeling genuine love, empathy, compassion, even remorse... those feel delicious. But now I must also feel the pain as well, and deep anger, the nemeses I always tried to block out. But I am willing to face them now, on my path to finally being healthy. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Reformed christians become the biggest zealots... Could you expain this statement please. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I can NOT help it....Underpants, your name makes me collapse into uncontrollable laughing...and that icon with those green underpants...LOLLLLLL I have a very immature weird sense of humor. I love it too. When I see it,it reminds me that even adults need to express the kids we have inside. Link to post Share on other sites
JMC Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 You're right...thank God I'm not the only kidlet around here!! Link to post Share on other sites
justice Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I am very new here and highly doubt that I have the time to become familiar with many success stories... May I ask, what is considered a success story? Are we really going to see affair-turned into-serious relationship, free of drama and infidelity all over again? What starts bad ends bad!!! Believe that! I couldn't have said it better myself Mimi. Link to post Share on other sites
MimiMe Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Success stories of these kind are more like a fluke and in real life, I have come across= NONE! It's been part of history!!! we have seen it for centuries!! Cheating spouses hardly ever leave their families for the OW and if they did it barely ever ever works! And the ones that do stay together, I am sure dont rest their head remose free. Infidelity hurts people, cheats kids of growing up in a home with a family, like it was mandated by God and stablished by society. We are living in a world where morality is not "hot". Affairs are publicly praised by the Jolie's and the J-Lo's of the world... OW may entail a relationship with their MM and perhaps one day obtain the tittle of W, but they will always be remembered as the OW that wrecked a home. Think about it... in your absence, there was a home, marriage, family. And the lame excuse of "if it was not me, it would have been somebody else"... it's just that! LAME! Link to post Share on other sites
malaclypse Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 You may not comprehend it, but overcoming something that controlled me and caused me to hurt others for so long makes me so happy I could shout it from the rooftops. Reading what others have to say, talking about my experiences, seeing so much of my former self in others' posts, all is an incredible aid in my journey to be more and more in touch with how much cruelty I inflicted upon people. It is a crucial process in my journey out of denial. If that bugs you, I suggest you put me on ignore I'm happy for you that you are working on changing your toxic behavioral patterns. But I had the feeling you talked 'down from the high horse', which I think is inappropriate... I'm not a cheater apologist, but I think you were a rather extreme case... and now you are 'healed' for how long? After 15 years of cheating? Yeah, I'm a skeptic. Feel free to shout from the rooftops, but be aware people might be shouting back from the streets... Link to post Share on other sites
malaclypse Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Personally malacypse from your posts I think you should listen to her advice as you sound like you are where she used to be. That is perhaps why it sounds like she is gloating to you. My story is on this board, feel free to read my threads... And no, I'm not where she used to be. I've never cheated on any of my girlfriends, ever. But I don't feel that this makes me a better person entitled to lecture everyone else about morality... Link to post Share on other sites
malaclypse Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Reformed christians become the biggest zealots... Could you expain this statement please. People who adapt a new set of beliefs often become the most fervent advocats for it, e.g. 'new' vegans, people who stopped smoking, people who lost a lot of weight, christians who changed denomination... I think the mindset is "I was like that, now I'm better, and I have to enlighten everyone else in a remotely similar situation so they can become as happy as I am." Some people (like me) react allergic to that kind of preaching... Link to post Share on other sites
malaclypse Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Success stories of these kind are more like a fluke and in real life, I have come across= NONE! And now you generalize from your experience to the whole of the human population? Hm. It's been part of history!!! we have seen it for centuries!! This is funny. Even 200 years ago, the whole concept of marriage was less a 'romantic love for life' thingy as most people see it today and more a economic union... with different sets of standards for what is acceptable behavior and not. Cheating spouses hardly ever leave their families for the OW and if they did it barely ever ever works! Some do, some don't. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's just life. Infidelity hurts people, cheats kids of growing up in a home with a family, like it was mandated by God and stablished by society. We are living in a world where morality is not "hot". Affairs are publicly praised by the Jolie's and the J-Lo's of the world... People who use celebrity trash as role models are gullible idiots. And what's so great about a family model (traditional christian family) in which women are disempowered and unequal? (And I'm asking this as a man...) Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 And now you generalize from your experience to the whole of the human population? Hm. This is funny. Even 200 years ago, the whole concept of marriage was less a 'romantic love for life' thingy as most people see it today and more a economic union... with different sets of standards for what is acceptable behavior and not. Some do, some don't. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's just life. People who use celebrity trash as role models are gullible idiots. And what's so great about a family model (traditional christian family) in which women are disempowered and unequal? (And I'm asking this as a man...) Malaclypse this is one of the sanest and most down-to-earth posts I've read in awhile. Don't know you or your story at all, but I'm impressed! I think some preachers - I mean, posters - would do well to realize that the people posting here are NOT the same people as in their own IRL situation. Also that it's not a swift move to treat others as their emotional garbage pail. Most people don't (and shouldn't) put up with that. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Success stories of these kind are more like a fluke and in real life, I have come across= NONE! It's been part of history!!! we have seen it for centuries!! Cheating spouses hardly ever leave their families for the OW and if they did it barely ever ever works! And the ones that do stay together, I am sure dont rest their head remose free. Infidelity hurts people, cheats kids of growing up in a home with a family, like it was mandated by God and stablished by society. We are living in a world where morality is not "hot". Affairs are publicly praised by the Jolie's and the J-Lo's of the world... OW may entail a relationship with their MM and perhaps one day obtain the tittle of W, but they will always be remembered as the OW that wrecked a home. Think about it... in your absence, there was a home, marriage, family. And the lame excuse of "if it was not me, it would have been somebody else"... it's just that! LAME! OK, if you want a Real Life example - my father married his OW, giving us kids the first shot at "real" family (one based on love, not hostility) we'd ever known. His W is the gradmother all our kids love best - though they love their other grandmothers too - because she's a great person. They're not remotely interested in the ancient history of what went down way back before they were born. No one thinks of her as "the OW that wrecked a home", even though they're still living in the home we grew up in as kids with my mother and father, and the neighbours are all the same neighbours we grew up around. The neighbours welcomed her and warmed to her and she's as more a part of the community than my mother ever was, since she's happy and friendly and outgoing, and not walking around clouded in misery all the time. Because of the blended family, my kids and my siblings' kids have grown up with more grandparents, more aunts and uncles and more great-grandparents and great aunts and uncles, and cousins, than some of their friends, and they love the rich texture that those kinds of family linkages bring. Family gatherings like weddings and funerals are like detective novels with everyone puzzling out how they're connected, and some of the stronger relationships are the "dotted line" ones rather than the blood ones because these involve choice rather than heredity. I work with many colleagues whose LTRs started out as As, which are far stronger and longer lasting than their initial Ms were, where hardly anyone even remembers the xW or xH or that the "new" W or M is not the biological parent of the kids. In one case the xH and his new W, the xW and her new H and both of their kids all work here, quite happily. It's really no big deal If you really have never come across any IRL, perhaps you ought to get out more? We're everywhere, once you start looking. Link to post Share on other sites
trifecta Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well that is very sad owoman ,that no-one remembers the biological parents of the kids, those parents and those kids deserve the recognition, since I work with kids , I am sooo glad I don't work where you do- sounds like I would be very very busy. It is also sad that you believe 2nd marriages are more successfull than first-they actually have a higher failure rate. I have read some of your posts and I understand you're in a successfull post A arrangement-just curious as to why you would still consider yourself the OW. TriMax Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well that is very sad owoman ,that no-one remembers the biological parents of the kids, those parents and those kids deserve the recognition, since I work with kids , I am sooo glad I don't work where you do- sounds like I would be very very busy. It is also sad that you believe 2nd marriages are more successfull than first-they actually have a higher failure rate. I have read some of your posts and I understand you're in a successfull post A arrangement-just curious as to why you would still consider yourself the OW. TriMax The kids do have contact with their biological parents - but socially, they've dropped out of the same social circles that their xH or xW inhabits and have moved into their own separate worlds. It's neither sad nor happy - they've exercised a choice not to share a social space with their x's new partner, and so the social memory of them having once been there has faded over time. That's just how it is. I wasn't making a general point on 1st vs 2nd marriages, I was commenting anecdotally on what I've observed in my immediate environment where yes, 2nd marriages have been more successful. But equally, many who've left 1st marriages have gone on to successful LTRs that they've not certified via an official M, have just lived together for 10, 15, 20 years post D and raised their various blended families like that. I'm sure my work and social circles form a very small part of the total population, so I doubt my experience is representative of The Whole World. I still refer to myself (here) as the OW because we've been told repeatedly that we're still the OW until the ink of the divorce is dry, and sometimes even then "he'll go back" so until the ink is dry on the (former)OW's M to the (formerly M)M, she's still the OW in the eyes of most on LS. Personally I've never considered myself my MM's "O"W - I've always considered myself his woman, just has he has always insisted to me he's my man. The paper connection to his W notwithstanding. Link to post Share on other sites
trifecta Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I do appreciate what you are saying. But I ain't convinced you're convinced. I do hope it all pans out for you. TriMax Link to post Share on other sites
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