Stop sabotaging your fellow OW

[Jess-Belle]

How long has it been?

 

You think one day you'll grow bored of him and cheat?

 

I wish you the best of luck and hope it really works out for the both of you!!!

 

I held him at bay for two years. It wasn't an A the whole time, as my other relationship ended. But it was a lot of issues. I was a relationship addict, I was afraid of intimacy, I'd grown cold and jaded about love in general, not to mention the childhood trauma I'd endured. But after much soul searching one day (I guess approaching 30 will do it ) I realized I was ruining my life and I was going to end up making sure I stayed alone forever. I would have no family or children like I dreamed of. And that underneath all of my intense fear of commitment, I loved him. For once I actually cared, I hurt not because it was an incovenience to me, but because I saw the pain of someone I truly loved. I committed to turn myself around and got into therapy, as well as couples therapy. I got to seeing my cheating as what it was, an addiction very much like cravings for alcohol or drugs, an escape for me to avoid pain, closeness and vulnerability. I suppose no one can say if we'll ever grow bored of each other... I don't think so seeing as we're like best friends... But I am confident that my cheat days are gone. Cheating never had anything to do with boredom or unhappiness in my relationships... it had everything to do with me, my unhappiness and my emptiness that I looked to others to fill.

 

Thanks for the kind words

[Tomcat33]

Sincerely,

 

A Former Serial Cake-Eater for 15 Years

 

 

Well you actually had my full attention up until I read that last part, it pretty much sums it up nicely.

 

Of course you WOULD have such an extreme view on this and would have no clue about what people who actually DO fall in love with someone else and WERE indeed in the wrong marriage would experience. You come from a background of cheating for sport. It makes sense you would have this point of view, serial cheaters are exactly everything you discribed in your original post AND MORE.

 

gees 15 years of cake eating that's practically half an adult lifetime. I don't even know how you could even turn that around???

[Jess-Belle]

...because your gloating about your 'new-found integrity' is kind of annoying.

 

Sorry.

 

You may not comprehend it, but overcoming something that controlled me and caused me to hurt others for so long makes me so happy I could shout it from the rooftops. Reading what others have to say, talking about my experiences, seeing so much of my former self in others' posts, all is an incredible aid in my journey to be more and more in touch with how much cruelty I inflicted upon people. It is a crucial process in my journey out of denial.

 

If that bugs you, I suggest you put me on ignore

[Jess-Belle]

Jess,

 

Just wanted to say that your post was excellent. I hope it motivates more women to end affairs or better still never even contemplate having one.

 

I also agree with the posters that said that if a man really wants to be with the OW, he will do it within the first year without any relapses. If it carries on for too long, they are simply cake-eaters for sure. Buying time by manipulating the OW with the usual array of excuses such as kids, finances,family etc.. just shows that he has no intention of leaving for there never is a GOOD time to leave.

 

Success stories are the rare exception to the rule.

 

Thanks marlena

[Tomcat33]

Yeah but he is right though.

 

Here you come across as gloating when you speak for a whole society of Affairs as if you were the voice of a reason when you are reformed SERIAL cheater.

 

You never just had one affair, you had many therefore you were messed up. sorry to put it bluntly but people can commit ONE bad act and things turn out horribly that is being human but being SICK is committing the exact same act over and over again and not getting the message you are hurting people along the way.

 

It's like me saying "I lost my job and I and had a terrible three months where I went into a deep funk and was extremely depressed, but now I cma out of it and I am doing great again" and then I also say "for all you bi-polars and manics out there you deffinitely have hope, I did it"

 

You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

And I am very happy for you that you came to your sense and stopped your monsterous ways, it is good for you, but you can't speak for ALL cheaters when every situation is different.

 

what rubs people the wrong way is not that you share you experience is that you tell people THIS/I am how everyone is/thinks.

So I get what malaclypse is saying...

[It_Hurts]

I also agree with the posters that said that if a man really wants to be with the OW, he will do it within the first year without any relapses. If it carries on for too long, they are simply cake-eaters for sure. Buying time by manipulating the OW with the usual array of excuses such as kids, finances,family etc.. just shows that he has no intention of leaving for there never is a GOOD time to leave.

 

This was exactly my point on another thread but I seem to have been shot down and basically told my MM is heartless because he abandoned his kids, they can't win. He didn't stay for his kids because they constantly argued in front of them, what sort of life is that for any child. I also split up with my children's father because of this very reason.

 

I knew that if he didn't leave within 3-6 months of us starting affair, he would never leave. I have a friend that has been seeing a MM for years, I have seen her pain and suffering. He tells her, he loves her but said he also loves his wife, he doesn't want to split the finances, doesn't want to bring shame on the family and any other reason that comes into his mind that day. She lives in hope day after day, that one day, just one day, they will be together. She is enabling him to have his cake and eat it.

 

In my situation, I wasn't prepared to wait around for him to become comfortable with our situation, I didn't tell him to leave his wife, I told him I would be leaving him as soon as someone else came into my radar. He told me once he had left that there was NO way, he was prepared to have a full blown affair with me because he loved me too much to keep walking away from me, he didn't want a few stolen hours of pleasure.

 

If like my friend, you want to live in hope, keep believing what he tells you. Talk is cheap, actions are what matter.

[marlena]

You may not comprehend it, but overcoming something that controlled me and caused me to hurt others for so long makes me so happy I could shout it from the rooftops. Reading what others have to say, talking about my experiences, seeing so much of my former self in others' posts, all is an incredible aid in my journey to be more and more in touch with how much cruelty I inflicted upon people. It is a crucial process in my journey out of denial.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean. And I find your desire to share your experience with others laudable. The truth needs to be told, however harsh it is. I also commend you on successfully coming out on the other side. It couldn't have been easy at all. I know. Introspection that leads to honest self-evaluation is a very painful process.

 

Marlena

[Jess-Belle]

Well you actually had my full attention up until I read that last part, it pretty much sums it up nicely.

 

Of course you WOULD have such an extreme view on this and would have no clue about what people who actually DO fall in love with someone else and WERE indeed in the wrong marriage would experience. You come from a background of cheating for sport. It makes sense you would have this point of view, serial cheaters are exactly everything you discribed in your original post AND MORE.

 

gees 15 years of cake eating that's practically half an adult lifetime. I don't even know how you could even turn that around???

 

I know, it's nuts isn't it? I was destroying myself and everyone around me. You can choose to be dubious if you like, but isn't it generally you people who say 'once a cheater, always a cheater' is a load of bull?

 

Secondly, I do not have an extreme view. I presented the fact that statistically most of the time affairs don't succeed, and to be careful with who you get involved with because this could possibly be what's going through their minds.

 

And as a matter of fact, I DO know what it's like to simply be with the wrong person, meet a person out of an A and fall in love with them. That's exactly what happened to me. I was with a perfectly wonderful man who unfortunately was a rebound relationship for me when I got out of a very long, unhappy, scarring relationship with my ex. I met my OM and it was literally like love at first sight. I went through a lot of conflict because my fxcked-up-ness kept me tied to the other relationship where I did not have to worry about risking my emotions or heart. I finally caused a passive aggressive breakup with my rebound, but remained terrified of being close to anyone. Fast forward another year and a half, to when I decided to accept love into my heart and life. A lot of damage was done, he hurt me too, my OM-turned-bf wound up having an A himself, but we're doing everything we can every day to repair it. We adore each other and look forward to starting a family together in a few years. So there

[marlena]

I also split up with my children's father because of this very reason.

 

 

Yes, so did I. The kids are just an excuse. Plain and simple.

[MimiMe]

I held him at bay for two years. It wasn't an A the whole time, as my other relationship ended. But it was a lot of issues. I was a relationship addict, I was afraid of intimacy, I'd grown cold and jaded about love in general, not to mention the childhood trauma I'd endured. But after much soul searching one day (I guess approaching 30 will do it ) I realized I was ruining my life and I was going to end up making sure I stayed alone forever. I would have no family or children like I dreamed of. And that underneath all of my intense fear of commitment, I loved him. For once I actually cared, I hurt not because it was an incovenience to me, but because I saw the pain of someone I truly loved. I committed to turn myself around and got into therapy, as well as couples therapy. I got to seeing my cheating as what it was, an addiction very much like cravings for alcohol or drugs, an escape for me to avoid pain, closeness and vulnerability. I suppose no one can say if we'll ever grow bored of each other... I don't think so seeing as we're like best friends... But I am confident that my cheat days are gone. Cheating never had anything to do with boredom or unhappiness in my relationships... it had everything to do with me, my unhappiness and my emptiness that I looked to others to fill.

 

Thanks for the kind words

 

 

Whoa Jess! I commend you for accepting that you had a problem. It takes a lot of courage to first recognize it, and then to do something about it.

My soon to be XH, is a cheater by addiction I want to say. I tried saving him because he has been my best friend for 15yrs and we created a family, but you cant help someone that doesnt want to be helped. On top it was destroying me as a woman. It's been almost 4 horrible years, and my story will put many in tears or in anger... I have dealt with legal/health/financial isssues, restaining orders, a heart attack on one of my in-laws, assaults, you name it! because OW wanted to just live the life that I did. I chose to believe that's what it was...

When you love someone (even if he is a MM) you dont cause them ALL THAT DRAMA! The dirtbag, poor spirit loser of my H is blind enough to not see the facts. Once he is no longer a challenge, she will move to the next victim!!! Not the first time she's done it!

 

***DISCLAIMER- The opinions stated on this post are those from my personal experience. Not trying to offend any MM,MW,OM,OW and whatevs else! But if the shoe fits... *** LOL!

[Jess-Belle]

but you can't speak for ALL cheaters when every situation is different.

 

I know, you don't have to tell me that, I used to say that when I was an OW. Funny how when cheaters are all so different, most of the time they fxck you over Look all around you.

 

what rubs people the wrong way is not that you share you experience is that you tell people THIS/I am how everyone is/thinks.

 

No, I'll say it again. This is what I went through, and it could be, in any combination, what any other cheater may go through. They could also have stuff in there that I never had, or maybe none of it. They could be like my bf who, frankly, I think really had nothing other than a lot of anger and resentment, cowardice to end the relationship and was utterly desperate for outside validation.

 

Don't misinterpret what I'm trying to get across. I know it's "scary" to hear when its laid out like that, but I'm not trying to say that it's a carbon copy of everyone thinks. I used no absolutes, only logic and personal experience tied with supporting stats.

[Jess-Belle]

I know exactly what you mean. And I find your desire to share your experience with others laudable. The truth needs to be told, however harsh it is. I also commend you on successfully coming out on the other side. It couldn't have been easy at all. I know. Introspection that leads to honest self-evaluation is a very painful process.

 

Marlena

 

Thanks. I'm just trying to show what the goings-on really look like after all the excuses and rationalizations and softness are stripped away.

[Tame]

Jess – The amount of delusion on this board is astounding. It is no wonder that the MM have chosen the types of women who exist on these boards as affair material. Their capacity for self-deception is out of this world! I suppose a MM would never involve himself with a realist; that would take all of the fun out of the affair!! It is unbelievable that these women have so little respect for themselves that they would willingly sleep with someone they know is sleeping with someone else just to say they have someone in their lives. Meanwhile if they meet at SG and the SG cheats they will be ready to tear his head off. Why? They apparently don’t have a problem with the men they love sleeping with someone else, why would they ever expect monogamy?

 

I suppose it wouldn’t be so bad if the women were just using the men for money and didn’t care about their time or attention but these women actually love the men and they sacrifice their dignity for the man’s pleasure. What the 1800’s is going on here? Then you have women that really believe they rescued their man from a bad situation and they weren’t wrong for cheating because the woman was a dog anyway. At the same time they ignore the fact that the MM they love has horrible taste in women and jumped from one shady relationship into another with no break and no time to figure out what it is about him that leads him to drama-filled relationships. When he does figure it out he’ll leave the OW because she likely enabled his problem as opposed to providing solutions. That is why these OW/MM relationships generally do not last. Since the man is the one who has gotten to do the choosing he will eventually choose another OW over the first OW because he’s got it like that. Why women choose to get involved in destructive relationships like this is a mystery to me.

Edited March 7, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Jess-Belle]

Whoa Jess! I commend you for accepting that you had a problem. It takes a lot of courage to first recognize it, and then to do something about it.

My soon to be XH, is a cheater by addiction I want to say. I tried saving him because he has been my best friend for 15yrs and we created a family, but you cant help someone that doesnt want to be helped. On top it was destroying me as a woman. It's been almost 4 horrible years, and my story will put many in tears or in anger... I have dealt with legal/health/financial isssues, restaining orders, a heart attack on one of my in-laws, assaults, you name it! because OW wanted to just live the life that I did. I chose to believe that's what it was...

When you love someone (even if he is a MM) you dont cause them ALL THAT DRAMA! The dirtbag, poor spirit loser of my H is blind enough to not see the facts. Once he is no longer a challenge, she will move to the next victim!!! Not the first time she's done it!

 

***DISCLAIMER- The opinions stated on this post are those from my personal experience. Not trying to offend any MM,MW,OM,OW and whatevs else! But if the shoe fits... *** LOL!

 

It sounds like you've had it rough. I too understand what can happen when you want to 'save' someone. It's a sick dance many are unable to escape.

[Jess-Belle]

Good for you, Jess-Belle, for sharing your experiences in an effort to help others see what may lie in store for them and for trying to help them think their own way out of a possibly hopeless situation rife with grief and unhappiness. And good for you, also, for not taking the obviously proferred bait and lowering yourself to the levels of some of the posters on this thread. Like I said before, YOU ROCK!

 

Thank you!

[nadiaj2727]

...because your gloating about your 'new-found integrity' is kind of annoying.

 

Sorry.

 

I don't take it as that she is gloating, I take it that she is saying "I was there, I did that and I learned from it, here is advice for those who want it."

 

Personally malacypse from your posts I think you should listen to her advice as you sound like you are where she used to be. That is perhaps why it sounds like she is gloating to you.

[OWoman]

I seem to have been shot down and basically told my MM is heartless because he abandoned his kids, they can't win.

 

I suspect this may have been me? That wasn't what my post was meant to convey - I've addressed that on the other thread.

 

Talk is cheap, actions are what matter.

 

Ultimately, yes.

 

But watching what my MM - and everyone around him - has been going through since leaving, I've seen up close how very hard it is and how high those costs can be.

 

I was always of the view that "if he loved the OW enough, he'd leave" (assuming that was what she wanted) but after living through MM actually leaving, I honestly can't stand in judgment of MMs for whom those costs really are too high, and prevent them leaving.

 

Sometimes sacrificing personal happiness for "a greater good" is the only way they can live with themselves. It's sad, and while I'd like to believe that happy endings are always possible, I do believe that in some cases, the odds are just too stacked.

[nadiaj2727]

You may not comprehend it, but overcoming something that controlled me and caused me to hurt others for so long makes me so happy I could shout it from the rooftops. Reading what others have to say, talking about my experiences, seeing so much of my former self in others' posts, all is an incredible aid in my journey to be more and more in touch with how much cruelty I inflicted upon people. It is a crucial process in my journey out of denial.

 

If that bugs you, I suggest you put me on ignore

 

I comprehend it completely, because I'm the same way (although I "only" cheated once). People hate me for it too and I admire how you deal with the hostility. I think some OW/ OP on here will learn and grow and will one day thank you for your advice (whether they end up with MM or not... I think cheating and being involved in an ETA is a much bigger individual issue than simply hoping to end up with MM or discussing whether affairs can ever turn into healthy long-term relationships). Hopefully those that do will come back here like you and LB and other former OW and give really strong, good advice to current OP that are in the same position they were once in. Those who truly want to take the advice will. And those who don't want that advice are free to ignore you and me and whoever else thinks that affairs are hurtful to everyone involved... and go about continuing their dramatic, self-centered lives. They can come here and post questions full of doubt, like "do you think he is leaving?" and "Can we turn out okay?" and then get mad at us for saying what they don't want to hear. Or they can gloat about being in an affair that they feel will turn out "successful", and they can act like everything they are doing is completely right. And they can ignore or bash people who dare question their self-conflicting posts and call us holier-than-thou or whatever. To me, the important thing is that you are speaking your opinions based on your experience, just like the current OW and everyone else is doing. But you are actually trying to help people, whereas I feel that a lot of current OW are just trying to defend their status and their actions.

[Lookingforward]

...because your gloating about your 'new-found integrity' is kind of annoying.

 

Sorry.

 

Yup ( and I'm not sorry lol)

[OWoman]

Of course your situation is, thus far, a success story. But do you really expect us to believe that most MM's don't leave their marriage ONLY because they feel they can't?

 

I've never claimed that, so why would I expect anyone to believe it? I've argued consistently that situations differ and each needs to be considered on its own merits.

[Lizzie60]

I also see Jess as just trying to be a voice of reason but I doubt anyone will 'listen'.. we all have to live our own experiences, good or bad.

 

I used to be a smoker... now I hate smokers... do you seriously think that even if I go preaching against smoking that it will stop people from starting.. I don't think so.. it's not that simple.

 

When we are extremely attracted to a MM, it's not easy to 'reason'.. most of us know (I said most) that it's not right..but we just can't control the urge of being with him..

 

I have, on a few occasions, advised people to cheat..

 

You see.. I find it ridiculous to just throw everything overboard (kids, family life, etc.) without being certain that it is what the person wants.

 

In some cases, where the W 'cheats' herself by withholding sex to her H.. then I say to the H.. go outside your M to get your needs met.. simple as that... especially when they already had this discussion a zillion of times..

 

Sometimes cereal cheaters do cry in their Cornflakes.. (I liked that OW LOL)

[Jess-Belle]

I comprehend it completely, because I'm the same way (although I "only" cheated once). People hate me for it too and I admire how you deal with the hostility. I think some OW/ OP on here will learn and grow and will one day thank you for your advice (whether they end up with MM or not... I think cheating and being involved in an ETA is a much bigger individual issue than simply hoping to end up with MM or discussing whether affairs can ever turn into healthy long-term relationships). Hopefully those that do will come back here like you and LB and other former OW and give really strong, good advice to current OP that are in the same position they were once in. Those who truly want to take the advice will. And those who don't want that advice are free to ignore you and me and whoever else thinks that affairs are hurtful to everyone involved... and go about continuing their dramatic, self-centered lives. They can come here and post questions full of doubt, like "do you think he is leaving?" and "Can we turn out okay?" and then get mad at us for saying what they don't want to hear. Or they can gloat about being in an affair that they feel will turn out "successful", and they can act like everything they are doing is completely right. And they can ignore or bash people who dare question their self-conflicting posts and call us holier-than-thou or whatever. To me, the important thing is that you are speaking your opinions based on your experience, just like the current OW and everyone else is doing. But you are actually trying to help people, whereas I feel that a lot of current OW are just trying to defend their status and their actions.

 

Thank you. For me, there are various purposes. If anyone can read this and perhaps spare themselves some heartache, or wake up a little bit to the reality of things, shed some scales from their eyes, that is a great thing. I can't force that on anyone and ultimately everyone must take from their own experiences. I went through a lot of pain on my journey to this point and I wouldn't take any of it back. Nothing can replace what you gain from going through the experience yourself as opposed to just taking someone's word for it.

 

I do find it a little bit amusing how there are so many people who wring their hands on here night and day trying to get into the head of a cheater, but don't like the ugly picture when they get a glimpse of it. But I understand because I was once in their shoes. You don't want to believe the MM is anything other than a benign victim of circumstance.

 

You want to know what's really screwed up? Despite 15 years of masterful, never-caught cake-eating, the MM I knew still duped me

 

Anyway part of this is of course recovery. I am saying on this board things I never admitted outside of my own head, and for a long time, not in my head either. Part of leaving that life behind is admitting what you are, what you've done. Journaling is OK but it's still in secrecy. I want to put it here where thousands of people are going to read it. Yeah that's right, I was a cheater, I lied for years, I led people on, I slept with someone's husband and tore his family apart, the MM lied to me too and manipulated and hurt me, and I realize he was just like me. I admit it! I'm not going to hide behind something to make it sound nicey-nice and justifiable. I'm proud I have the strength to do that now. Staying quiet about it was what allowed me to continue doing it. But no more.

[JMC]

You may not comprehend it, but overcoming something that controlled me and caused me to hurt others for so long makes me so happy I could shout it from the rooftops. Reading what others have to say, talking about my experiences, seeing so much of my former self in others' posts, all is an incredible aid in my journey to be more and more in touch with how much cruelty I inflicted upon people. It is a crucial process in my journey out of denial.

 

Jess-Belle...with all due respect - just what I've observed - to me, you don't come across as happy.

 

I'm glad you "are" happy, but it doesn't come across that way. I've only read your posts recently, but they have an edge to them. Of anger at people who are in A's.

 

Why is that?

[Jess-Belle]

I also see Jess as just trying to be a voice of reason but I doubt anyone will 'listen'.. we all have to live our own experiences, good or bad.

 

Prevention of anything would be solely a bonus.

 

I would be honored if perhaps one day, after the fact, someone will remembering reading what I wrote here and having it made a little more sense and perhaps help them in some way.

I used to lurk here when I was an OW... and after the experience, there were posts from people I remembered and saw in a different light. Even though I didn't come back here until recently, I remembered the words of WhichWayIsUp and NoraJane.

[Jess-Belle]

Jess-Belle...with all due respect - just what I've observed - to me, you don't come across as happy.

 

I'm glad you "are" happy, but it doesn't come across that way. I've only read your posts recently, but they have an edge to them. Of anger at people who are in A's.

 

Why is that?

 

That's a good observation. I suppose I could say I am not "only" happy. I'm happy, and relieved, that I didn't self-destruct, yes, and that I will no longer hurt others like I used to. But I'm angry at myself as well, I'm disappointed in myself for my decisions. And living through precisely what I was doing to others for so long -- a betrayal -- I also cope with tremendous pain. This, I expect, would naturally show up in what I say. It is triggered when I see who I used to be, when people utter my same exact words and phrases and excuses, when I see people blind as I was as to how they were mutilating the heart of an unseen stranger. I am still getting over that part. One day I will forgive myself. It is a long process, I suspect.