I'm totally STUCK!!

[imstunned]

Thanks Posh. Last night I cried my self to sleep and had nightmares about him. I have heard in my life people saying things about others like "she never got over it. . ." I used to think what a pile of crock. . .but thats how I feel. I simply cannot get my head around any of it.

 

On Christmas Eve I was intimate with another man. . one of the guys who I have posted about before. I thought it may be a good idea to not have exmm as the last guy I was intimate with. I find him attractive and have needs so thought what the hell. I dont want anything more from him. I thought it may give me some insight too. Dont know why I thought that - but in the event it did. What me and this guy had was simply sex. Pure and simple. People have said that my exmm was just into me for the sex.

 

I just dont think thats true. I have had NO desire to contact the guy I was with on Christmas Eve and he hasnt contacted me either (we are friends so contact would be easy). Me and ex mm were in touch all the time. I just dont buy that it was a PA. Afterwards my fingers were twitching as I wanted to text my ex and tell him that nobody compares to him. I bet if he were posting on the infidelity board folk would say I was manipulating him If I had done it. I didnt send it - but I wanted to. Nobody is a patch on him or how he made me feel or how I felt about him.

 

I want him back. Maybe there really is something very screwed up about that. But I do. I cant get my head around all the lies to help me see that he isnt the nice guy I thought he was so I stop trying and then i cry about the fact that he chose and loves his wife. No matter how hard I try I still think of him in his happy little family. Got away with it scott free. Its painful for me which ever way I look at it.

 

I'm sick to death of it. Christmas was hell and I'm dreading New Year. I do try to get him out of my head but hes there straddling my thoughts all the time. I bet he NEVER thinks of me.

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

I want him back. Maybe there really is something very screwed up about that. But I do.

 

Then call him.

 

At least you have the good record of being "good" and not telling the wife or calling the house or something like that that could spook him during all these days (that were the most crucial days for that to happen I'd say).

 

And you have the excuse of happy new year etc.

 

But the wife is onto you now, so he might not want to get involved also because after being caught she is going to be extra careful.

 

But you can try.

 

Ariadne

[OWoman]

I bet he NEVER thinks of me.

 

And I'll bet he does. You've read Matt's thread on the infidelity board - how he struggled, and still struggles at times, with obsessing over his OW... and Matt wasn't nearly as invested as your MM, who constructed a whole other life for you.

 

Not that that makes it any easier for you.

 

I'm sorry your encounter with the other guy was so alienating. Your friend probably felt it too, that you were not into HIM, which may be why he's resisted calling you.

 

stun I wish I had some magic words to offer you to make it better, but I don't. This is hard, and it's going to be hard for some time still, and however badly this guy treated you that's not going to take away the knowledge of those special times together, and you WILL miss that. I hope that with time you'll be able to have that again, or better - with whomever - but until then don't beat up on yourself for missing that.

 

(hugs)

[imstunned]

Ariadne - I cant contact him. He dosent want me. That much I have got, took a while, but I finally got that through my thick skull.

 

OW - Its VERY comforting to think that my ex may think of me - but Matty always ends up thinking of his OW when he sees her - I dont see my ex. I really cant see him thinking of me. It would help more than I could describe to know that he does - thats what I longed for him to contact so much. To just know that I was in is head.

 

I wish too that you had magic words. This is wearing me down. Discovering he is married and a father has had the bizzare effect of making me want him MORE. Of him being my ideal man. Its all messing with my head.

[woe_is_me]

I know you've been reading some threads in the Infidelity section - have you read any written by wives who are suspicious or have discovered their husbands are cheating? If so, then you KNOW that his marriage is not the fantasy you have created in your head!

 

Let me draw a different image for you to consider instead of the one you are focusing on:

 

His anxious wife hasnt been working hard to take care of their kids and the household, or making sure the bills are paid, but money's aplenty and with the leaking roof and the recent car repairs,and how handy he is... it looks like they'll have a lot to spend on gifts this year. Hubby hasnt been going out to a lot of bars for drinks with his mates lately, and thats helping their money situation. as he's not a drinker.. Plus he's been so distracted and distant this past year, and hasn't been paying attention to either her or the kids very much. She's been lonely and exhausted and bitchn every week at all the arguments at home. He blows up every time she says anything about him maybe staying home instead of going drinking with his mates (just one of many alibis) and every time she asks him to watch his own kids while she tries to take a breather and go out herself. Their sex life has turned dismal. It seems the only time he ever touches her is when she says he can - there's no romance or flirting or affection, she seems to just use him and want it over and done with. She doesn't talk to him about it, but she keeps telling him he's crazy and to get off her back.

 

To top it off, the cell phone bill came in and was astronomical with all these texts he's sending to some unfamiliar number. She questions him about it and his story about a new friend who's going through a rough time just doesn't add up. He has a tendency to be secretive about his actions, and she's caught him in lies before, so she calls the number and talks to imstunned, some woman who seems to know her husband all too well and who tells her that he has been spinning some story about mountain climbing to impress her! WTF? Is he cheating???! How could he do that to her, to the kids??? Imstunned didn't say they were having sex, but why the hundreds of texts? What is going on?? Has he fallen for this other woman? Does he love her?

 

She confronts hubby and he keeps spinning his stories. She doesn't really believe him, and is devastated to find out he's been having this flirtation or affair with another woman, but since they both say they never had sex, maybe she caught on in time to stop it from progressing to a physical affair. Still, she's hurt beyond belief, and her heart is broken, and she's angry, and she's ready to kick him out of the house and divorce him. But he's the father of her children and they're too young to disrupt their lives and she still loves him even though she's realizing she made a huge mistake in marrying him.

 

He doesn't fancy living in a broken-down one room apartment while sending most of his income to an ex-wife for alimony and child support, and he doesn't want his family to know he's a cheater and a failure, nor does he want to admit to himself he's a cheater and a failure, so he begs her not to kick him out. He promises to cut off all contact with imstunned and to re-commit to his wife and children.

 

With a heavy heart, his wife agrees to give him another chance, but her trust is in tatters and she's less attracted to him than ever before. She doubts every word he says and she has to keep checking his email and phone to see if he's living up to his promises. He's angrier than ever before because he's on a short leash now and the arguments between them are worse than before, and it's hard to pretend things are fine in front of the kids. Still, those kids are the light and joy of her life, so if she has to suck this up and force herself to accept her dog of a husband so they can have a daddy at home, she'll do it. Christmas this year is awash in tears and anger and anxiety and sorrow, but maybe if they can make it through, the new year might be less painful...

 

and her dog of a husband might find a new owner and a new lease on life before he gets put down any more than he is...

 

Does that really sound like happy families to you? Or does that sound like a life of desperation? Doesn't that sound more realistic to you than your vision of their lives right now?

 

 

Sorry Nora..i had to reword it all

[Owl]

With a heavy heart, his wife agrees to give him another chance, but her trust is in tatters and she's less attracted to him than ever before. She doubts every word he says and she has to keep checking his email and phone to see if he's living up to his promises. He's angrier than ever before because he's on a short leash now and the arguments between them are worse than before, and it's hard to pretend things are fine in front of the kids. Still, those kids are the light and joy of her life, so if she has to suck this up and force herself to accept her dog of a husband so they can have a daddy at home, she'll do it. Christmas this year is awash in tears and anger and anxiety and sorrow, but maybe if they can make it through, the new year might be less painful...

 

and her dog of a husband might find a new owner and a new lease on life before he gets put down any more than he is...

 

Does that really sound like happy families to you? Or does that sound like a life of desperation? Doesn't that sound more realistic to you than your vision of their lives right now?

 

I'll continue this for you.

 

 

 

This same situation carries on for about 30-45 days...with him alternating going in and out of fits of depression over the end of his affair and missing his OW to feeling glad that he at least didn't lose everything. During that same time frame, his wife is also going crazy, trying to understand what in the world he's pining over...she can't understand what he feels he's given up. Doesn't he understand what HE'S done to HER??

 

But then, after that timeframe, a slow change comes over things. He finds that he's less and less depressed over the loss of the affair. His wife, having picked up a couple of resources (like Surviving an Affair, or His Needs/Her Needs) now understands better what he's been going through. She still checks his email, she still expects him to let her know where he's going and when...because her trust in him is still shattered.

 

He's starting to see WHY she's "keeping him on a short leash". He's just barely starting to understand what he's done to her. He's also just barely starting to realize what its taken for her to fight as hard as she has to keep him and rebuild their marriage. He's amazed...this MUST be love, if she's willing to make all these changes and do all this work after what he's done to her.

 

Now that he's been out of contact with OW for the last two months, he's beginning to realize just how 'addicted' he was. He's beginning to see how distorted his view of things really was when he was in the affair. And thanks to the marriage counsellor that they've found who clearly understands what they're going through, he's finding that things CAN get better.

 

His wife on the other hand is now going through an alternating bout of depression and anger. She's feeling the strain of supporting this fight single-handedly for all these months. There are times when she's ready to give up. But then, she's sometimes seeing the REAL reason she fought for him. A smile like he used to have once in a while. He's started treating her like a human being again. Occasionally, there's some real affection between them, and that's what keeps her going.

 

Six months later, and they're both amazed at what's gone on. She's still fighting occasional bouts of anger, but nothing like what she'd dealt with before. The AD's have helped her deal with the depression, and she's no longer taking them.

 

And AMAZINGLY, they've become intimate again. Something that neither of them thought possible. And its been INCREDIBLE. Its a bonding like neither of them expected. Both of them are amazed at the renewed passion.

 

The counselor lets them know that this is normal. It won't last forever, but if they keep things going, their marriage can be far better than what it was before.

 

One year after the end of the affair, and she's going through another depression. Its all those 'triggers'...mostly due to anniversaries of various things that she knew took place during the affair. The last time he slept with OW. The day that the wife found out about the affair and confronted him. But astoundingly, she's nursed through it...by HIM. Now he's helping HER out...by reassuring her and showing her how much he loves her and is grateful for his "second chance". They make it through this rough time, and things just seem better than ever.

 

The next year progresses well. She goes through occasional 'episodes' of depression...but they don't last long, and they both have learned by now how to communicate and deal with them.

 

Two years after d-day hits. She's been dreading this, knowing how horrible it was last time. She's amazed that its not ANYWHERE nearly as painful. She's able to ignore it and drive on. Her husband doesn't even realize that the anniversary of these events has come and gone. He's still focused on the positives...he occasionally thinks about OW, but its often along the lines of "what was I thinking?!?!". He wishes her well, but is glad that his own marriage recovered.

 

This is called marital recovery.

 

Change the sexes, and you'll pretty much see almost exactly what my marriage went through in its recovery, and this is pretty much 'textbook'.

[imstunned]

Thank you for that- but was that meant to make me feel better? It had the opposite effect.

[Ariadne]

Ariadne - I cant contact him. He dosent want me. That much I have got, took a while, but I finally got that through my thick skull.

 

How do you know? Did he tell you?

 

Or you have contacted him and he ignored you?

 

If it's the second then yikes.

 

But since his biggest fear is the wife, or that you'll make a mess etc and it's been a while.

 

You can count on him missing you by now.

 

Ariadne

[Owl]

Let me ask you a blunt question, Imstunned.

 

Are you here to feel better?

 

Or are you here to understand what's going on and what your best course of action will be to deal with it?

 

"Support" doesn't necessarily 'make you feel better'.

 

My advice for you remains as it has been.

 

Work on finding ways to heal yourself. Get involved with your friends and family. Use them as your support structure. Invest the time and energy you used to invest in him into something else, more positive.

[imstunned]

Ariadne - he asked me to leave him alone, said he needed to make things work at home.

 

Owl I'm here for support and to try and make myself feel better. Your picture of what will go down may or may not be true but it dosent help me in any way. For a kick off he is liying to his wife saying nothing happended between us. They will not be in MC. Even if she has talked him into going it wil be a waste of time as he sint being honest with her. But thanks for reminding me that in a year or two or even sooner he wil think of me in a "what was I thinking" way.

 

I am working on ways to try and move foward. Thing is they are not working and the tears and the nightmares continue.

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

Ariadne - he asked me to leave him alone, said he needed to make things work at home.

 

That's what he wants.

 

But what you want is to be with him.

 

You can always try and tempt him, use the right words etc.

 

Tell him of the moments you spent, and that you miss him, and you want to be his lover again, that you can't live without him and so on.

 

(Be careful about mentioning the wife, avoid that topic)

 

But he's more cunning that you are so you are at a disadvantage.

 

But you have the advantage that he is probably missing you (or missing some excitement too) and that you've been good.

 

Ariadne

[malaclypse]

Moving forward does not mean to ignore the pain, or to pretend to be happy. It should not only be trying to distract yourself from what's bothering you.

 

I think all emotions, positive as well as negative ones, should be lived out and experienced in the full.

 

If you are sad, don't try to 'be ok', but focus on the sadness, concentrate on it and let it fill you inside. Experience it to the fullest, cry, scream, rage, despair. A few of those 'sessions' should/might help with the nightmares.

 

You cannot escape the pain and loss.

 

 

Another thing that helps me is reading novels written by cynics, such as Kurt Vonnegut, and/or watching sick and twisted arthouse movies.

 

 

I feel that especially in the beginning of break-up misery, the 'friends and family' approach doesn't really work well - all you do is make them feel bad too, and really, there's nothing they can do to 'fix' you...Family & friends are great when the initial shock is over.

[Owl]

Letting your sadness "fill you" and all that will only set the stage to let yourself wallow in self-pity, and remain that way.

 

I agree you can't recover by ignoring it or by suppressing it. You do need to experience it and deal with it...but letting it fill you probably isn't the wisest course either.

 

Allow yourself to feel what you feel. Right or wrong, at the end of the day what you feel is exactly that...what you feel.

 

So, give yourself some time each day to 'feel' it. Grieve for the loss of your relationship...then dry your tears, and move on to something positive that allows you to better yourself. Don't spend your entire day, or all of your 'alone time' focused on it.

 

As far as MM's marriage, and the lies and all that...well, you're right. They may or may not recover. The lying is no surprise...the surprise would be meeting a WS who DIDN'T lie during their affair and after they got caught. Any counselor with a clue is going to be aware of that, and will know exactly how to deal with it.

 

But whether or not they recover at this point isn't your problem.

 

Your problem is focusing on YOUR OWN recovery.

 

Forget about the fact he was married for now. How would YOU help your best female friend deal with the end of a relationship? What advice would you give her on recovering from a similar situation? Again, leave the marriage thing out...just assume the guy is GONE in some fashion. Dead, shipped overseas, joined the Foreign Legion...whatever.

 

How would you help her cope with her grief, and get on with her life?

[imstunned]

I cant contact him again, he will only reject me again and I just cant take that. Its so clear he dosent want me or he would be in touch with me. its clear he only wants his wife.

 

malaclypse - I agree that all emotions need to be felt and worked through. I am trying not to wallow but with remarks from friends and family essentially to the tune of "I'd have thought you'd be over it by now" its hard no to give myeslf a hard time over still being so upset about it all. On Christmas day my mum got angry with me as I couldnt put on a sparkling smile for everyone else. No concern for me, or the fact that I did well not to crimble in a pile of the tears that I faught all day. My friends and family havent helped much at all, in fact the opposite.

 

Owl - you ask an interesting question, and I have no idea how I would help a friend through this. IProbably just by lending an ear, checking in on them. Which is more than any of my friends have really offered me.

 

I KNOW that I shouldnt want this man. But I do, but he dosent want me and its devestating. So I try and remind myself of all his lies to remind myself that he isnt a good guy really and thats devestating too and gets my head scrambled as I cant get my head around it.

 

I actually let the whole thing go a few months in and just thought "oh well" - then he came back with some excuse about having no funds on phone etc - and would love to see me on his return from the cimbing etc. Whats screwed with my head is obviously the fact that he is married and a father. He is now everything I want. But just not to me. To his wife.

[Ariadne]

I cant contact him again, he will only reject me again and I just cant take that. Its so clear he dosent want me or he would be in touch with me. its clear he only wants his wife.

 

Well, you have nothing to lose really at this point.

 

If he says no you'll be just like now.

 

But I can understand, you'll get over eventually.

 

Ariadne

[Frances]

Well,

 

Ariadne - he asked me to leave him alone, said he needed to make things work at home.

 

That's what he wants.

 

But what you want is to be with him.

 

You can always try and tempt him, use the right words etc.

 

Tell him of the moments you spent, and that you miss him, and you want to be his lover again, that you can't live without him and so on.

 

(Be careful about mentioning the wife, avoid that topic)

 

But he's more cunning that you are so you are at a disadvantage.

 

But you have the advantage that he is probably missing you (or missing some excitement too) and that you've been good.

 

Ariadne

 

Ariadne what would contacting him achieve? are you trying to help her or stir up more trouble for her long term?

 

She has enough misery to deal with without making it worse for herself.

 

It is support she needs to help her recover from the fact that he used her and then now wants nothing to do with her. I think that is a lot to recover from and the best way is to look after herself, be nice to herself and get on with her life separate from his. Let him rot for all she should care.

 

A new year is coming and new beginnings. I hope that she will grasp this with both hands and not let him ruin the rest of her life. He has taken too much from her already.

[Ariadne]

Ariadne what would contacting him achieve? are you trying to help her or stir up more trouble for her long term?

 

To be with him, since that's what she wants.

 

At least she can give it a shot.

 

I'd say she has some chances.

 

Ariadne

[norajane]

To be with him, since that's what she wants.

 

At least she can give it a shot.

 

I'd say she has some chances.

 

Ariadne

 

Chance of what? Getting back a huge liar, a married cheater, and a guy who pretended he was dead?

 

She doesn't have a chance of getting him back, and the only thing she would achieve if she did would be to carry on a secret affair with a man who is scum and lied to her about being dead.

[OWoman]

Stun - I've no idea how old your daughter is, but does she draw or paint? If so, why don't you join her? Why don't you paint the stuff you're grieving the loss of: the life you don't have with MM, the family, the shared home,

everyone sitting around at dinner to listen to his tales of heroic mountain adventures...? Get a nice big piece of paper, so that you can fit it all in, and paint as roughly or as finely as you want. Picturing the scene, with yourself in there, and what you'd like it to look like, might help in a way that words can't reach.

 

My sister in law lost a baby at birth. He was a much longed for brother to the daughter she already had, and they'd all so looked forward to his birth, that the loss devastated her utterly and plunged her into a really serious depression. It was when she started painting, and painted the life she'd imagined for the baby, that she started to surface from it, because the unspoken thing that everyone kept trying to silence and unspeak could take form, could be real and seen by others, and could be acknowledged, in some way, because it stopped existing just inside of her.

 

Your writing about it here is also giving form to it, though here you are also having it buffeted by all of our own experiences and views and so your own might sometimes not get heard as it should, might not get seen as it should.

 

And even if it doesn't help, painting can be fun just for itself, as a way to pass the time?

[Owl]

Well, if it helps any, the 'advice' I'm offering is the same stuff I'd be doing to help that 'friend' we talked about.

 

I'd give them some "alone time" to deal with the grief.

 

I'd do my best to help them understand that I can empathize with what they're going through.

 

I'd try to show them how I recover in those kinds of situations.

 

And I'd try to help them get engaged in some kind of activity or situation that gives them another outlet besides focusing on the lost relationship.

 

Here's an odd one for you.

 

Get involved in martial arts. Pick an art that you might be mentally or physically suited for and start studying it. It will be physically taxing, so that will help you deal with the stress and sleep better. It will be mentally challenging, so you'll spend more focus on mastering the new skills than thinking about the "what ifs". And it can provide you with other new skills along the way. It'll also have you interacting with other people in a positive way...that in itself is a good remedy for depression.

[Ariadne]

Chance of what? Getting back a huge liar, a married cheater, and a guy who pretended he was dead?

 

She doesn't have a chance of getting him back, and the only thing she would achieve if she did would be to carry on a secret affair with a man who is scum and lied to her about being dead.

 

Well, she doesn't care.

 

Ariadne

[norajane]

Well, she doesn't care.

 

Ariadne

 

I think she would care, if she saw him that way. Unfortunately, she is still trapped in her fantasy of him being a good man and feeling like a beautiful sexy woman with him and of how she would have lived happily ever after with him. The reality of who and what he is hasn't sunk in yet, but it will.

[imstunned]

The very idea that I would have a chance of seeing him again or getting him back has set my heart pounding. But I cant risk making a total fool of myself by contacting him. He will most likely tell me to get lost. I would however do anything for him to get in touch with me. I was dissapointed that he didnt on Christmas day, and I'll be the same on New Years Eve.

 

Owoman - I like your painitng idea - but doing things like that with my toddler are not condusive to any thing for myself. . . and I'd only paint a nice picture of him and his wife and kids cosy togther with me not on the same page and cry.

 

owl - I like your idea too, but getting out and starting any kind of new hobby or activity is near impossible as I'm on my own with a little one with little support in terms of anyone to have him. In fact - no support really.

 

Nora - If I had the chance to see him again I would, it may help that penny drop about who he really is. I'm just not getting it no matter how hard I try. Stuck indeed.

[PoshPrincess]

I wish I could help, ImStunned. Your sitch is a lot more unusual than others but I can understand your mourning the loss of the man you thought he was. You have got to keep reminding yourself though, that he ISN'T that man, that he lied to you about EVERYTHING.

 

Please don't contact him. I know how tempting it is (I've given in more times than I care to remember), but it will only make you feel worse IMO. You may be right though that seeing him will give some reality to the whole thing. You need to see him in his own environment, with his W, kids, etc. and as devastating as it would be, maybe it would really hit home. When I find something that works for me I will let you know!

[imstunned]

It makes me really sad that even on a forum for other women/men my story has the be one of the more unusual ones. All over the forums I read of the MM going back to the OW, even falling in love with them, missing them, that seems to be the norm, but not for my ex. Oh no - he seems to buck the trend in every way! I hope his M falls apart, and I hope he is miserable.