Harry vs Sally

[LoveLies]

Ok.

So I have this middle-aged friend (separated, getting a divorce, 3 teenage sons) at work who has been "friends" with this guy for over a year. She goes out to eat with this guy once a week and they "talk." She is convinced he thinks of her as nothing but a sister...but I say he has to have some sort of "feeling" for her to have invested this amount of time with her....

 

What do you think?

 

Can men and women really JUST be friends?

 

Cause, I don't really think so.....

 

Honestly? I don't think so. But maybe that's because I've been cheated on, and I can't trust a boyfriend's "girl-friends" ya know? And my one best guy friend who I knew for 11 years just threw that all away when he stole from me.

 

So, IMO, in this day and age, I really don't think guys and gals can be just friends.

[HouseOfCards]

Can they be just friends? Well, yeah, but not really on an intimate level. In my experience, I can't get close to a girl on an emotional/intellectual level without developing some sort of attraction to them. There's only two girls I've ever been very close to without starting a relationship. One of them was dating my good friend and so I never developed anything more than a friendly crush. The other girl has driven me slightly insane thinking about her and continues to do so to this day. It's a totally stereotypical, Harry & Sally, Jim & Pam kind of situation, and it would never had happened if we hadn't become close friends.

 

So yes, they can be friends, as long as you keep your distance.

[Mustang Sally]

I think this conversation has wandered a little.

 

I misunderstood your "JUST be friends" question:

 

1. Do I think a man and woman can be just friends if there is no physical attraction on either party's part? Yes, easily.

 

2. Do I think a man and woman can remain friends for an indefinite period of time even if there is physical attraction / chemistry between the two of them? Sure, with a modicum of self restraint.

 

3. Do I think a man and woman can completely shut off a physical or sexual attraction between the two of them? Nope.

 

I thought you were asking question 2, but it sounds like you were asking question 3 and ignoring my and tanbark's exception in question 1.

 

ae

Well.

 

<speechless>

 

I guess you told me.

 

Obviously, I didn't clearly know what I was asking, myself.

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

Sincerely.

[alterego1234]

Well.

 

<speechless>

 

I guess you told me.

 

Obviously, I didn't clearly know what I was asking, myself.

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

Sincerely.

 

It's hard to tell over the Internet, but if you're expressing hurt or sarcasm that's unfortunate. I was just trying to clarify what I was saying and why I was saying it and trying to be helpful to you by giving an honest opinion from a guy's perspective on your question. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or tell you off or anything, or express any disrespect for your opinions, so I hope that's not how you read it.

 

ae

[Cobra_X30]

It's hard to tell over the Internet, but if you're expressing hurt or sarcasm that's unfortunate. I was just trying to clarify what I was saying and why I was saying it and trying to be helpful to you by giving an honest opinion from a guy's perspective on your question. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or tell you off or anything, or express any disrespect for your opinions, so I hope that's not how you read it.

 

ae

 

I dont think that you or I are truely able to hurt MS's feelings...

 

I doubt she was implying offense anyway.

 

However, I think regarding your 3 points... we need to hammer out the difference between what you call a friend and what you call an acquaintance. I think within this defintion lies the majority of our disagreement here.

[Mustang Sally]

I dont think that you or I are truely able to hurt MS's feelings...

<raising my eyebrow at you, mister>

I doubt she was implying offense anyway.

No.

Actually I was impressed that I had been rendered speechless.

Usually not an easy feat.

However, I think regarding your 3 points... we need to hammer out the difference between what you call a friend and what you call an acquaintance. I think within this defintion lies the majority of our disagreement here.

I would agree with this, too.

[alterego1234]

MS, glad to hear you weren't offended. My ex could be sarcastic sometimes and it mixed with her sense of humor, so that makes it a bit of a sore spot and/or confusing issue for me.

 

It's hard to objectively define the difference between the two, but for me the defining line between the two is this: A friend of mine is someone who I would actively seek to interact with in some way. An acquaintance of mine is someone who I wouldn't actively seek out but if they sought me out or if we happened to cross paths I'd be willing to interact with them.

 

Examples:

 

1. I go to my hot coworker and ask her opinion on a dating situation. She gives me her opinion, and we chat. Friend.

2. The dumpy coworker comes and talks to me about a work issue and then we chat about our upcoming respective holiday plans. Acquaintance.

3. I call my dumpy married friend and we get our kids together for a play date, and we chat about my ex. Friend.

4. I happen to run into someone from high school in the grocery store. We chat about whatever. Acquaintance.

 

One can have unequal status, as well. For example, in example #1, hot coworker might think of me as an acquaintance if she never sought me out or initiated conversation with me (although, in fact, she does initiate conversations sometimes). Over time, though, if my friendship overtures are not reciprocated then I'll stop seeking them out as much and they'll sort of drop into acquaintance status.

 

ae

[CraigAllen]

Ok.

Give me a break.

 

You expect me to believe that the ego-stroke you get from friendship with one of your male friends is comparable to the ego-stroke you get from a friendship with a hot woman-friend?

 

Please.

 

Do I really look that naive?

I don't know. Some guys are pretty cool. Let's say Mark Cuban wanted to hang out for example. Think of the women we could get.

[CraigAllen]

I think you can deal with male/female relationships like you deal with Al Queida. I suppose all male/female relationships can be dangerous to an extent.

 

Some people won't go to New York City because they are afraid of a terrorist attack or they might not go because their loved-ones might worry too much about them. So they stay home out of respect for their loved-ones. Others heed the warnings from the State Department and don't travel to places in the Middle-East or the like. Don't discount those crafty terrorists though. There is still the chance that a car bomber that might just plow into the restaurant in your home town out of the blue (hey, it's possible). If you choose to never go out to eat, you can even avoid those guys.

 

Everyone and their SO's have their own comfort levels. Certainly some situations are more dangerous than others. I'm not going to stay home from visiting New York City because of the off chance that Al Queida might pick that particular day to attack. Even if they did, are they going to pick the building that I'm in? I'm most definitely not going to stay home and eat all the time either. I love a good meal.

 

Now that being said, I was hit by a car bomb in New York City once. I was injured, but not killed. I have a new-found respect for Al Queida, but I'm not scared enough to stay away from New York altogether. I love travelling to new and exciting places and I believe that nearly all of the time you can travel safely if you are careful.

[Mustang Sally]

I think you can deal with male/female relationships like you deal with Al Queida. I suppose all male/female relationships can be dangerous to an extent.

 

Some people won't go to New York City because they are afraid of a terrorist attack or they might not go because their loved-ones might worry too much about them. So they stay home out of respect for their loved-ones. Others heed the warnings from the State Department and don't travel to places in the Middle-East or the like. Don't discount those crafty terrorists though. There is still the chance that a car bomber that might just plow into the restaurant in your home town out of the blue (hey, it's possible). If you choose to never go out to eat, you can even avoid those guys.

 

Everyone and their SO's have their own comfort levels. Certainly some situations are more dangerous than others. I'm not going to stay home from visiting New York City because of the off chance that Al Queida might pick that particular day to attack. Even if they did, are they going to pick the building that I'm in? I'm most definitely not going to stay home and eat all the time either. I love a good meal.

 

Now that being said, I was hit by a car bomb in New York City once. I was injured, but not killed. I have a new-found respect for Al Queida, but I'm not scared enough to stay away from New York altogether. I love travelling to new and exciting places and I believe that nearly all of the time you can travel safely if you are careful.

<speechless>

 

For a second time today....

 

[Trialbyfire]

Has everyone in this thread resisted or not resisted temptation, even if the chemistry is hot? If so, you know what you're capable of doing or not doing. Judge by your own understanding of who you are and what you value more.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Male/female relationships can be very dangerous. I speak from experience.

[CraigAllen]

<speechless>

 

For a second time today....

 

Careful. I might hurt your feelings.

[CraigAllen]

Has everyone in this thread resisted or not resisted temptation, even if the chemistry is hot? If so, you know what you're capable of doing or not doing. Judge by your own understanding of who you are and what you value more.

 

<Clappity Clap Clap>

 

This is sooooo true. I detest the fact that some people think this is such a black and white issue. It absolutely is not in my opinion. Everyone is different. Some just refuse to believe this.

[Trialbyfire]

This is sooooo true. I detest the fact that some people think this is such a black and white issue. It absolutely is not in my opinion. Everyone is different. Some just refuse to believe this.

I've followed this thread and felt, hang on, this is such a no-brainer for me. Yes, I can be friends with guys and not fall for them/have them fall for me. But...then I realized that not everyone is accustomed to cross-gender relationships, where they grew up with hanging out with the opposite gender, climbed trees with male friends and skinned knees from falling off a branch. Where on rainy days, you made your brothers/boy friends play Barbie and tea party and they made you race Hotwheels. (Shhhhh...I shouldn't have told... )

[Stockalone]

I've followed this thread and felt, hang on, this is such a no-brainer for me. Yes, I can be friends with guys and not fall for them/have them fall for me. But...then I realized that not everyone is accustomed to cross-gender relationships, where they grew up with hanging out with the opposite gender, climbed trees with male friends and skinned knees from falling off a branch. Where on rainy days, you made your brothers/boy friends play Barbie and tea party and they made you race Hotwheels. (Shhhhh...I shouldn't have told... )

 

This is very interesting. I never had a female friend and to be honest, I never understood the concept of cross-gender friendship. Which brings me to what you wrote earlier.

 

 

Here's some of the attitudes that stop male/female platonic friendships:

 

Men: What could I possibly find in common with women? What can a friendship with a woman provide, that I can't get from my guy friends?

 

I am one of those men because that is exactly what I am thinking. Friends of mine seem to be able to just be friends with women, so I suppose it is possible, but the concept is still very strange to me.

[Phateless]

Has everyone in this thread resisted or not resisted temptation, even if the chemistry is hot? If so, you know what you're capable of doing or not doing. Judge by your own understanding of who you are and what you value more.

 

In what sense? You mean cheating? Or just hooking up with friends when you know it would be a bad idea?

[Phateless]

I don't think it's really possible, all or most of my female friends just wind up acquaintances. The girls whom I thought were friends in the past only stuck around to try to get into my pants, but I only saw them as a non-sexual friend.

 

Once they wind up in a relationship with someone or realize that I don't see them more than friend, we'd pretty much lose touch. But it's very common and it happens to everyone.

 

That's exactly what happened to me! Twice! 'cept the second one is the girl i kept making threads about who always insisted we were "just friends!"

[Phateless]

I think you can deal with male/female relationships like you deal with Al Queida.

 

LOL!!! Wow..... That's a quote for the yearbook.

[Trialbyfire]

This is very interesting. I never had a female friend and to be honest, I never understood the concept of cross-gender friendship. Which brings me to what you wrote earlier.

 

I am one of those men because that is exactly what I am thinking. Friends of mine seem to be able to just be friends with women, so I suppose it is possible, but the concept is still very strange to me.

Men and women bring different things to the table, in cross-gender friendships. Sometimes, you can bring the same thing as a male friend to the friendship, but with a more sensitive approach. This is kind of funny but one of my male friends values that I have smaller hands, so when we work on our cars, I can help him in the areas where it's impossible for him to fit his big hands in and he helps me with things that require strength. He's better at understanding wiring but doesn't have the small muscle skills to handle smaller wires and connections. I don't have the knowledge but I can take instruction pretty well, so I help him. It's no different in many ways as a male/male friendship.

In what sense? You mean cheating? Or just hooking up with friends when you know it would be a bad idea?

Cheating, friends, even dating someone and realizing this isn't a good idea, even if your hormones are going wild.

[mistieyed]

i have had a male friend that i am very close with for several years - initially, it was as though we were dating without the sex and he always said that "we weren't dating" and i always said he was like a "brother". now that almost three years have gone by, i am realizing we were great for and with each other, as he has. but, at this point (and even back then) we were so close that moving to a romantic place was WAY too scary and risky. who wants to ruin a great connection like that on the off chance it could be something? well, i am thinking now i should have taken that chance just to see. if there is any question, you have to try or you wonder. if it was scary before, imagine it now after spending three years being so close. funny thought, we will probably end up married (I laugh loudly and quite insanely at this point)

 

P.S. I love When Harry Met Sally!

[Storyrider]

I've followed this thread and felt, hang on, this is such a no-brainer for me. Yes, I can be friends with guys and not fall for them/have them fall for me. But...then I realized that not everyone is accustomed to cross-gender relationships, where they grew up with hanging out with the opposite gender, climbed trees with male friends and skinned knees from falling off a branch. Where on rainy days, you made your brothers/boy friends play Barbie and tea party and they made you race Hotwheels. (Shhhhh...I shouldn't have told... )

 

I used to play Hotwheels with the boys in the neighborhood. I used to make them add an interpersonal element. The cars all had to have personalities and would talk to each other, have relationships, etc. It was a Hotwheels soap opera. They hated it.

[Trialbyfire]

I used to play Hotwheels with the boys in the neighborhood. I used to make them add an interpersonal element. The cars all had to have personalities and would talk to each other, have relationships, etc. It was a Hotwheels soap opera. They hated it.

That's hilarious Story.

 

"The pink car loves the black car. She wants to kiss him. Run away black car, run away."

 

*black car lays rubber and squeals away*

[oppath]

My female friends who I am not attracted to, I admit, I largely used them to meet other women. Sure, I enjoyed their conversations and support, but I'd mostly be friends to increase my social network and meet other women.

 

Most women I interact with on a friend level, I feel some physical attraction for. This does not mean I will act on it -- though generally, there was a reason at some point I could not -- such as making out with her coworker the week before and navigating those waters. I have 2 female friends who, if they were to become single again, I'd make a move on within the week. I keep my distance because they have bf's who I actually like and respect and I only hang out with them in group situations. But I have a strong attraction to them. I just don't develop feelings for friends, and their boyfriends really have nothing to fear because out of respect for all parties involved, I keep my distance.

[CraigAllen]

My female friends who I am not attracted to, I admit, I largely used them to meet other women. Sure, I enjoyed their conversations and support, but I'd mostly be friends to increase my social network and meet other women.

 

Most women I interact with on a friend level, I feel some physical attraction for. This does not mean I will act on it -- though generally, there was a reason at some point I could not -- such as making out with her coworker the week before and navigating those waters. I have 2 female friends who, if they were to become single again, I'd make a move on within the week. I keep my distance because they have bf's who I actually like and respect and I only hang out with them in group situations. But I have a strong attraction to them. I just don't develop feelings for friends, and their boyfriends really have nothing to fear because out of respect for all parties involved, I keep my distance.

 

Just curious. I gather you are a single man and not currently in a serious relationship. If you were, do you think you could maintain these friendships with the female friends that you would make a move on within the week? I guess I wonder if you would feel that was appropriate as long as your SO is aware of it? What if they suddenly became unattached. This is a larger issue I think.

 

This is somewhat my situation. I am married, but have several female friendships. I am physically attracted to most of them. Even though there is a physical attraction, I know that for whatever reason they are either inappropriate for me (if I were single) or absolutely unavailable and therefore "safe" or at least appear so. I enjoy these relationships as I do many of my male friends. The only real difference is the fact that I am physically attracted to them. I really don't see a problem with this as long as a person attends to their marriage appropriately. I kind of liken it to watching a movie with an actress that I think is extremely attractive only in a three dimensional sort of way. From a visual standpoint, I enjoy being with them, though I don't have designs on having a sexual or romantic relationship with them.

 

This has backfired on me once. One of these friends expressed their feelings and attraction to me and this has ended our friendship. It does make me sad to lose the friendship because I truly enjoyed her company, but I guess that is the nature of the beast as it were. Thoughts?

 

I guess the question is how do people generally feel about negotiating the risks involved with developing this kind of relationship within the framework of a healthy marriage.