Does anyone just get tired of it all?

[White Flower]

 

Amen!! Having this ability, perspective and control is EXACTLY what, I pride myself in having the talent to maintain!! And yes, it is a talent, because it doesnt not come easy and takes alot of work to be able to accomplish and "fine tune." After all, (without sounding judgmental cause that’s NOT what I'm doing) being able to look at it from this POV is what stops us from becoming more attached than we should be, having unrealistic hopes of it developing into a relationship that it never will be, etc….and in fact, saves our souls from becoming miserable and involved in an unhealthy relationship.

It’s being able to separate, and yet acknowledge and enjoyyyyy at the same time…feelings stemming from a relationship such as the one we are/were involved in and yet in turn, as a direct result of this lead normal, productive, healthy lives and benefit from relationships outside of our affair which we are involved in or in search of.

Your reference to the "white noise, steady hum" made me smile. Thank You. Id like to share why. *Going out on a limb here, but, awwww...so what...it made me smile!* Its in fact, a private thing between my MM and I. When we see each other out in public somewhere and are doing the " nice to see you, how you doing thing" and don’t have the opportunity to speak privately, *because neither one of us will risk a risque comment* one of us will reference "mosquito fights" ( description of the sound, white noise tv makes when station is off air) somehow into the course of the conversation and having it fit is funny enough…its actually hilarious how it can, to us at least, but it lets the other know….I HAVE TO SEE YOU!!! WORK OUT THE DETAILS AND LET ME KNOW!! Amazing how, when in a relationship like ours, we learn how to communicate under the table.

This is such good advice; I know I'm getting there as we speak. And yes, the "communicating under the table" is an amazing sort of side effect of the A. I wonder how many OW/OM became FBI agents, lol. Not to say we're trained professionals, but we can relate to a degree. The FBI should read this forum and start recruiting!

[alwayswandering]

It is sooo rough. In my case there was so much sexual tension before he was married that I was always too afraid to act on. Now I'm not afraid, but lo and behold, now he's married. AND surprise surprise, now the tension is through the roof and I try to be a good person by not being open to what he tells me he wants but I feel like I don't have the strength to tell him no because I want him so badly. I guess you just have to tell yourself, I made the choice to be in this and to deal with all the consequences that come with it and if the ultimate consequence is, you dont get the guy/girl...well, time to pay up

[TogetherForever]

To tell you the truth, I am a little tired of waiting for him to file for divorce.

 

TF

[KnownTruth]

To tell you the truth, I am a little tired of waiting for him to file for divorce.

 

TF

 

I'm tired of it too and all the excuses that come with it!

[TogetherForever]

I'm tired of it too and all the excuses that come with it!

 

That's the only issue I have in my relationship.

It sucks.

TF

[precious1357]

Being the OW sometimes I just get tired of the whole thing. The lies, cheating, sneaking around and I wonder what I have gotten myself into. Then there are times I know I love my MM and want nothing more than to be with him even though there is all these obstacles. I know alot of this thinking just comes with the territory. I guess what I am asking is does anyone just wish he would leave his wife and get it done with already? Or if they should just end this and move on?

 

Amen!!! I feel EXACTLY the same way...I am really tired of the whole thing. I am totally in love with this man and I'm not child and neither is he. But I AM tired of the sneaking around and putting on a false smile....I love him and I want him to get on with it. I'm trying to hold on and he keeps telling me how its more difficult to undo a long term marriage and how his wife can't stand him and would fight him tooth and nail because she is just that mean...they haven't had sex in over 5 years, the property, bills and everything is in her name, he has a really good job and no criminal record or anything but I JUST WANT HIM TO GET ON WITH IT!!!

[OWoman]

...but I JUST WANT HIM TO GET ON WITH IT!!!

 

It doesn't end there. That's when the real stuff starts... Sometimes I really wish we could go back to how it was, before we started "getting on with it".

[frannie]

Amen!!! I feel EXACTLY the same way...I am really tired of the whole thing. I am totally in love with this man and I'm not child and neither is he. But I AM tired of the sneaking around and putting on a false smile....I love him and I want him to get on with it. I'm trying to hold on and he keeps telling me how its more difficult to undo a long term marriage and how his wife can't stand him and would fight him tooth and nail because she is just that mean...they haven't had sex in over 5 years, the property, bills and everything is in her name, he has a really good job and no criminal record or anything but I JUST WANT HIM TO GET ON WITH IT!!!

 

So why do you try to hold on? Why not say look, this isn't working for me... and take your control back?

[frannie]

It doesn't end there. That's when the real stuff starts... Sometimes I really wish we could go back to how it was, before we started "getting on with it".

 

I've heard lots of OW whose MM goes through a divorce say exactly that. So... how are you dealing with it? What are the main problems during this period for you?

[OWoman]

I've heard lots of OW whose MM goes through a divorce say exactly that. So... how are you dealing with it? What are the main problems during this period for you?

 

Hardest for me, personally, is watching all the pain and knowing there's no way over or around it, that it has to be gone through. For my kids it's less of an issue - some disruption, but it's more of a minor inconvenience for them at this stage. For his kids it's far worse - watching their mother on auto-destruct, feeling themselves caught in the middle of warring parents and their loyalties and guilt pulling them this way and that...

 

For friends and colleagues it's hard too - they're trying to maintain cordial or professional relations in the face of hostility and harassment and hysteria, being drawn into a battle they feel is none of their business and trying their best to keep their heads down until it passes.

 

Extended family too - catalogues of past wrongs and historic slights are pulled out and inflated and set asail, the past rewritten and every event turned into another missile in an ongoing war to the finish. Illness, old age or pregnancy are ignored as the nastiness escalates the possibility of anyone having a halfway decent "festive" season has been obliterated.

 

But worst of all for MM, wracked with his own torment and loss, and the guilt of what he's wrought, watching the fall-out spread way beyond the expected reach. Knowing he's chosen, and this is the inevitable outcome, that there's no solution that doesn't involve pain, that this is the best of all possible outcomes even though it feels at times like there could be no worse.

 

It will pass, I'm sure. Once it's all done and dusted, the ink dried and the boxes unpacked, some different sense of normality will creep gingerly around the corner and slip into the room unobserved, but for now that feels like a long way off - and it might be. The kids, in shaky voices, insisting that it's "all for the best" and painting glowing futures in hopeful tones keep some forward-looking focus in view, in amongst all the backward-looking pain-mining, but at times it seems so naive, so fraught, so fragile. For now there's this, and this hurts, and hurts more people than imagined.

 

Dealing with it - well, his W has refused any counselling (again) though MM is in IC and he and his kids are getting some family counselling. And we speak all the time - we always have, about everything - so that we're in contact with where each other is at any moment.

 

So, for now, it's the emotional stuff.

 

There's still lots of practical stuff to sort too - and the financial costs of doing this faster than we'd planned that we'll have to deal with too - but those are minor compared with the emotional stuff right now.

 

I must say, seeing what this has unleashed has made me think again about the glibness of the assurances people give OW that "if he really loved you, he'd do anything to be with you". Maybe. But for some MM these kind of costs are just way too high, and whether or not he still loves his W, and whether or not the kids are old enough to stand having their lives turned upside down, and whether or not it means giving up homes and jobs and countries and lifestyles and daily contact with friends and family - sometimes the costs are just too high, however much he might love his OW. Some guys can do it, and do - but for those who can't, I can no longer stand in judgment.

[frannie]

Thanks for posting that, OWoman. It really brings it home what exactly has to be gone through, as you say, for a MM to 'just be with you'. And the immense amount of guilt and other emotions they have to process in order to get there.

 

I hope you (and all concerned) have as good a Christmas as possible in the circumstances.

[OWoman]

Tx Frannie

[Frances]

Amen!!! I feel EXACTLY the same way...I am really tired of the whole thing. I am totally in love with this man and I'm not child and neither is he. But I AM tired of the sneaking around and putting on a false smile....I love him and I want him to get on with it. I'm trying to hold on and he keeps telling me how its more difficult to undo a long term marriage and how his wife can't stand him and would fight him tooth and nail because she is just that mean...they haven't had sex in over 5 years, the property, bills and everything is in her name, he has a really good job and no criminal record or anything but I JUST WANT HIM TO GET ON WITH IT!!!

 

 

 

You believe all he is telling you? What is the age difference between him and you? How long have you been a item?

[NoIDidn't]

I must say, seeing what this has unleashed has made me think again about the glibness of the assurances people give OW that "if he really loved you, he'd do anything to be with you". Maybe. But for some MM these kind of costs are just way too high, and whether or not he still loves his W, and whether or not the kids are old enough to stand having their lives turned upside down, and whether or not it means giving up homes and jobs and countries and lifestyles and daily contact with friends and family - sometimes the costs are just too high, however much he might love his OW. Some guys can do it, and do - but for those who can't, I can no longer stand in judgment.

 

This was a great post. Its also the reason that the glib "MP doesn't love you anymore", "MP loves me", "you should just divorce" doesn't carry for many BSs.

 

The cost is sometimes too high. Like in another thread, the one by Katanya, we cannot stand in judgment when people are faced with the choice to split their families or not. Love or Hate notwithstanding.

[indianlover]

This is such good advice; I know I'm getting there as we speak. And yes, the "communicating under the table" is an amazing sort of side effect of the A. I wonder how many OW/OM became FBI agents, lol. Not to say we're trained professionals, but we can relate to a degree. The FBI should read this forum and start recruiting!

 

That's so funny! The other day I was thinking about how we (me and MM) communicated and its all doublespeak - references to inside jokes, things that happened to us before, etc. and thats how we communicated strong feelings one way or another without saying much or saying things that could get us in trouble someday. I get it now...Its a type of intimacy! that develops as a result of the constraints.

 

It frustrated me sometimes, but then again there are benefits of communicating subtly. I remember in 'real' Rs I would say hurtful things as opposed to saying to my MM 'hey, do I have to schedule an appointment for X, Y or Z?' and he'd know I was kinda pissed and needed attention without having to say so..interesting...maybe I should use these skills in 'real' Rs

[indianlover]

This was a great post. Its also the reason that the glib "MP doesn't love you anymore", "MP loves me", "you should just divorce" doesn't carry for many BSs.

 

The cost is sometimes too high. Like in another thread, the one by Katanya, we cannot stand in judgment when people are faced with the choice to split their families or not. Love or Hate notwithstanding.

 

I agree, but its also more than just splitting a family. I know money isn't everything, but when we talk about halving the assets it's not just as simple as cash. Everything that means something - businesses, houses, cars, etc - gets split in half too. AND if you're the MM (and she doesn't work) then you also get to support two woman (BS/OW) plus any kids with 1/2 the resources after the divorce. At least for my MM his work is his life. While I didn't buy the whole money thing - I did buy the 'business' aspect of it. His business means more to him than anything else in his life and he wouldn't want to lose the business in divorce.

[GreenEyedLady]

Hardest for me, personally, is watching all the pain and knowing there's no way over or around it, that it has to be gone through. For my kids it's less of an issue - some disruption, but it's more of a minor inconvenience for them at this stage. For his kids it's far worse - watching their mother on auto-destruct, feeling themselves caught in the middle of warring parents and their loyalties and guilt pulling them this way and that...

 

For friends and colleagues it's hard too - they're trying to maintain cordial or professional relations in the face of hostility and harassment and hysteria, being drawn into a battle they feel is none of their business and trying their best to keep their heads down until it passes.

 

Extended family too - catalogues of past wrongs and historic slights are pulled out and inflated and set asail, the past rewritten and every event turned into another missile in an ongoing war to the finish. Illness, old age or pregnancy are ignored as the nastiness escalates the possibility of anyone having a halfway decent "festive" season has been obliterated.

 

But worst of all for MM, wracked with his own torment and loss, and the guilt of what he's wrought, watching the fall-out spread way beyond the expected reach. Knowing he's chosen, and this is the inevitable outcome, that there's no solution that doesn't involve pain, that this is the best of all possible outcomes even though it feels at times like there could be no worse.

 

It will pass, I'm sure. Once it's all done and dusted, the ink dried and the boxes unpacked, some different sense of normality will creep gingerly around the corner and slip into the room unobserved, but for now that feels like a long way off - and it might be. The kids, in shaky voices, insisting that it's "all for the best" and painting glowing futures in hopeful tones keep some forward-looking focus in view, in amongst all the backward-looking pain-mining, but at times it seems so naive, so fraught, so fragile. For now there's this, and this hurts, and hurts more people than imagined.

 

Dealing with it - well, his W has refused any counselling (again) though MM is in IC and he and his kids are getting some family counselling. And we speak all the time - we always have, about everything - so that we're in contact with where each other is at any moment.

 

So, for now, it's the emotional stuff.

 

There's still lots of practical stuff to sort too - and the financial costs of doing this faster than we'd planned that we'll have to deal with too - but those are minor compared with the emotional stuff right now.

 

I must say, seeing what this has unleashed has made me think again about the glibness of the assurances people give OW that "if he really loved you, he'd do anything to be with you". Maybe. But for some MM these kind of costs are just way too high, and whether or not he still loves his W, and whether or not the kids are old enough to stand having their lives turned upside down, and whether or not it means giving up homes and jobs and countries and lifestyles and daily contact with friends and family - sometimes the costs are just too high, however much he might love his OW. Some guys can do it, and do - but for those who can't, I can no longer stand in judgment.

 

This is such a great post...

 

How often on LS do you get the actual truth? You are much braver than I to post that here...

 

And I agree wholeheartedly with some men being unable to leave due to the high costs involved...I do however, also believe that if I am not worth the cost then I am not with the man who was made for me...

 

It points to values and underlying compatibility, ironically...If someone places more value on money, a house etc. well, since I don't value those as the most prized, then someone who does is not compatible with me...

 

Most prized to me is someone who satisfies every part of me: intellectually, emotionally, sexually; love, friendship, sex...Money is merely a means to me, not an ends...

 

I am following down a similar path Owoman, and it is a journey through the unknown...I don't see many post about it...And your post was a breath of fresh air...

[Gwyneth]

Wow! This has Got to be the Only thread I have thus far seen that only OPs have responded to. I am thrilled!!!!

 

Once a month when I'm in B*tch mode I think about getting out of it because he is the one person I choose to let mold my mood. I am in b*tch mode this week so he is keeping it cool LOL. I warned him to stay as far away as he can.

 

Anyway...I can't imagine myself staying in this longer than I have to. I think eventually we will have sex, or "make love," and it will either turn into something real, or just fade. I think sex will determine what we are. He already asked what we are but I really do not have an answer for that--at least not one I think he's looking for. You see, I think he thinks I'm his gf, but I have a Very hard time facing that since I am what I am--the OW. I however will not put up with this for that long--as I have said Many times, it certainly is Not easy being the OP. Right now this works for me because I am not looking for something serious. As I said though, once we do consumate our relationship, which I think we will very soon, then I think the status of our R will be determined. If not, then something else will come up where it will be determined.

 

D-day has already happened--wifey knows about Gwyneth, she just chooses not to believe Gwyneth is the lover of her husband.

 

We are two weeks away from a very new year, so hopefully a lot of us will be able to either start it off on a good foot, give it our best, or reside where we are at. Let's all wish the best for all of us OPs!

[OWoman]

Wow! This has Got to be the Only thread I have thus far seen that only OPs have responded to. I am thrilled!!!!

 

:p NID you've been upgraded! (And maybe Frances - not sure what your "category" is?) :p

[OWoman]

I am following down a similar path Owoman, and it is a journey through the unknown...I don't see many post about it...And your post was a breath of fresh air...

 

Strength GEL - we're both going to need that...

[Frances]

:p NID you've been upgraded! (And maybe Frances - not sure what your "category" is?) :p

 

I would call myself a bs, my h would not agree as his difinition of an affair is having sex with an ow. I think the fact he kept her a secret means it was an affair. They still send the odd email, nothing romantic just birthday and Christmas greetings now.

 

Their relationship was conducted mainly over the email, the odd phone call, they only met up on 6 different occassions. She lives in the states and us in Europe. He did her no favours, maybe at first as he helped her out as she had gone through a dreadfull time, I would have helped her myself had I known about it. She started to depend on him, used him as a crutch and then fell for him, he also had feelings for her, what kind I am not sure. He likes helping people, even ropes me in at times. I, on the other hand am quite independant and I do not look for his help very often, perhaps thats where I make my mistake. Some men like the clingy type. I think their relationship was fantasy as with alot of affairs as they only let you see a small part of themselves. When you live with someone you see all sides and some sides are not so nice. The day to day grinds can grind you down, it's no wonder people look for fantasy.

 

I thought your post gave a realistic idea of the hurt and pain affairs cause for everyone concerned, no one wins.

 

I am older than most here and if I have learned anything from my years regarding men it's only take a man who can love you properly and not someone who uses you for what suits him.

[Gwyneth]

Oh my bad. I was skimming through some of the replies and from what I saw it looked like only OW's. I don't remember every one's stories, as I have said before.

[MatsumeKazuo]

Being the OW sometimes I just get tired of the whole thing. The lies, cheating, sneaking around and I wonder what I have gotten myself into. Then there are times I know I love my MM and want nothing more than to be with him even though there is all these obstacles. I know alot of this thinking just comes with the territory. I guess what I am asking is does anyone just wish he would leave his wife and get it done with already? Or if they should just end this and move on?

 

I was the OW for a short period of time, and although it didn't go any further than some dangerous flirting, I was sick of it. I came face-to-face with the SO and listened to his lies about how he couldn't even compare her to me, and I would tell myself that, in his eyes, it was true.

 

He snuck around, had almost all conversations through text messages and late-night calls, and told the stupidest lies. But I would just sit there and tell myself it was only a matter of time before he woud leave his wife.

 

They looked so mismatched and all he would do was tell me all the problems he was having with her, and I would feel sympathy - but not that much. I may have been dumb but I wasn't stupid.

 

It took a while but I realized that he wouldn't leave her. He was too comfortable in his situation. He wasn't going to leave his wife for me.

 

And KnownTruth? You have to leave. Move on. Otherwise you'll find yourself always waiting for him - and that's probably just what he wants.

[White Flower]

That's so funny! The other day I was thinking about how we (me and MM) communicated and its all doublespeak - references to inside jokes, things that happened to us before, etc. and thats how we communicated strong feelings one way or another without saying much or saying things that could get us in trouble someday. I get it now...Its a type of intimacy! that develops as a result of the constraints.

 

It frustrated me sometimes, but then again there are benefits of communicating subtly. I remember in 'real' Rs I would say hurtful things as opposed to saying to my MM 'hey, do I have to schedule an appointment for X, Y or Z?' and he'd know I was kinda pissed and needed attention without having to say so..interesting...maybe I should use these skills in 'real' Rs

I'm glad you thought it was funny. I was kind of fearing I'd get flamed by our opponents, whom I love so dearly:rolleyes:, but in reality we do live very much like spies under cover. Maybe it pisses them off because they can't partake in such a clandestine lifestyle or because they think we are glamorizing our wrongdoings. I'll admit that it's a little of both for me, or rather, I can see it from both points of view.

 

And the part I bolded--yes, it's a good skill. I wish H would use it in publice because when he gets frustrated he gets loud and the whole world has to know what's going on. Having a secret code would be awesome in those moments. I'll bet lots of MP are reading our threads and getting all of our best ideas...and that's great.

[White Flower]

Hardest for me, personally, is watching all the pain and knowing there's no way over or around it, that it has to be gone through. For my kids it's less of an issue - some disruption, but it's more of a minor inconvenience for them at this stage. For his kids it's far worse - watching their mother on auto-destruct, feeling themselves caught in the middle of warring parents and their loyalties and guilt pulling them this way and that...

 

Some guys can do it, and do - but for those who can't, I can no longer stand in judgment.

This was an excellent post, OW.

 

I told MM right from the beginning I could never demand that he leave his W for me because of those very reasons. I'm sure a lot of our great critical thinkers here at LS would laugh at me and say, "Hey, he's one lucky SOB for you to give him the best possible ending right from the beginning like that! And you let him know from the git-go that he had license to cake-eating."

 

Yet, if he did choose to leave for me on his own and made all those sacrifices for our love my heart would absolutely melt. I would try to love him so completely in order to alleviate any suffering he endured and to assure him that all of it was worthwhile.

 

Not to change the subject, but does anyone think that this may be at the very heart of the matter? Do MM not leave their Ws because when it all boils down he wonders if will he get that profound love his OW promised him?