Fiancees Past haunts me to no ends. Driving me crazy!

[Cobra_X30]

You've also said you don't bother reading most of the posts. That makes me sad because I hoped your lack of continued posts meant that he had even wowed you with the crazy.

 

Also, you attacked and belittled me, I didn't flinch because I don't need you to agree with me to continue to believe what I feel to be true.

 

Life isn't fair and crushes the ones who expect it to be under it's wheels.

 

If I attacked and belittled you I sincerely apologize. It is not my intent to hurt your feelings. I understand where your coming from and why. I just disagree with your approach.

 

Well, I do find it sad that he has generally descended into crazy ranting and raving. However, I forsaw that coming, based on his early responses to attacks and critisizm.

 

I dont think it has to be this adversarial. I think we can help Genki and and his GF, by getting him to resolve the situation.

[Cobra_X30]

What I'm hoping to do its to either get him so firmly entrenched in his ideals that he leaves her alone, or get him to realize how unlikely his convictions will work in the real world and relax, seek some real help, and learn to become a more accepting person. I have a tendency to over state implications to get a person to feel motivated to further explain themselves for clarity. Problem is, he only clarifies the things he implicates and lets us all know that yes! he does in fact feel the way his posts imply.

 

But you're right.......till he can understand that life isn't always fair and accept that, he stands zero chance at ever being a happy human being who can accept anything beyond his limited control.

 

I see. Perhaps this may work in persuading him to dump her... however, I feel it would be bad for him to dump her purely out of anger. Bad for her that is.

 

More likely he gets angry and extreme and then feels he cannot back down.

 

No, life is not fair... some learn this quicker than others. However, we all desire fairness and equality on some level. Is that not true?

 

Cobra, several times I've stated quite pragmatically that what he wants i.e. a virgin bride isn't possible with this woman. I've also come right out and asked him what would he like her to do or say that would make him feel better. Also what does he need to feel better.

 

He just responds with the same stuff he's always posted. At some point you need to either make a decision and move forward or find a therapist, and you may have to try several, and begin the process of a psyche overhaul to help you move forward.

 

If you continue with the same approach to him... why are you expecting different results?

 

This is a simple fix. Ask him questions, which will allow his thinking to open into new areas. He will not listen to you until you can show that you have some understanding of where he is coming from.

 

You have been to therapy... you understand this process.

[Cobra_X30]

Cobra, while I fully appreciate your stance, I don't think many here actually believe Genki is capable of being helped. I think he's here to rant and vent, and is seemingly NOT listening to anyone, except those few who have agreed he has cause for distress. He is merely here to complain about his harlot of a gf, and not really delve into the pathology of his behavior. I think we all realize there are others who will actually listen to viewpoints and advice, which is why this has become more comical and macabre than anything...

 

I question this also. However, I feel that it is our duty to try and assist. Just because we do not agree with this worldview does not mean we cannot help in some way. I am not against celibacy, and I respect those who choose to wait. I find his views on those who do not, fairly disturbing.

 

Besides you are assuming his motives. Go back and look, everytime there comes a point to actually delve into the problem... he instead follows the temptation to engage those who try and pick fights with him instead.

[sally4sara]

If I attacked and belittled you I sincerely apologize. It is not my intent to hurt your feelings. I understand where your coming from and why. I just disagree with your approach.

 

Well, I do find it sad that he has generally descended into crazy ranting and raving. However, I forsaw that coming, based on his early responses to attacks and critisizm.

 

I dont think it has to be this adversarial. I think we can help Genki and and his GF, by getting him to resolve the situation.

 

So you're not ready to accept that he is crazy and really needs professional help?

I went back to the original post and I have to say the crazy was there from go. Perhaps not so vehemently, but his views are the same whether he is angry or calm. The only time he isn't angry is when he perceives a post to be supportive of his views. You either agree with him or you are a low person and on your way to screwing dogs. The only thing that fluctuates here is if he merely patronizes you or pops a vein. There have been many, many very level headed posts by people who did not agree with him and gave him very sound advise. All he did was insult them or talk down to them. Especially and SPECIFICALLY if they were female. Go back and read them; tell me I'm wrong. Even when a guy disagrees with him he doesn't stoop to patronizing drivel. Instead, he challenges them with questions about situations and suppositions that sometimes don't even have anything to do with what is going on with his situation. Prostitution? Beastiality? Public sex shows? How are these things relevant?

[Jilly Bean]

However, I feel that it is our duty to try and assist.quote]

 

Cobra, while the intent is noble, I think you need to understand that you can't help someone without their permission. And Genki clearly is not here for any real help...

[Tripper]

If you continue with the same approach to him... why are you expecting different results?

 

This is a simple fix. Ask him questions,

 

 

Please read my post again, Cobra. I asked him what would make him happy?? What does he need? What does he need his gf to do or say??

 

He won't acknowledge the questions. A simple "I dunno" at least would open up a new door..

 

I must agree with Sal.. he's been very crazed right out of the box..

[genki]

Im going to try and explain in some little way so please dont attack me and try and help me;

 

 

At the base of my core is the belief that women shouldnt be abused, tricked, raped, slept with etc and I dont believe in the rubbish of try before you buy. That women deserve respect and a man thats willing to commit to them not just trick them or sleep with them for fun(unless it was mutual then ok). Consequently theres also the belief that I should remain a virgin and fight all the temptations and urges that life chucks at me from school till now to remain pure and honest to myself waiting for the right one that I am willing to make a commitment to and give HER my ALLLL everything I have and am and she would have also waited for me and gave all she had to me in return.

 

I have always tried to walk the line when I could have given in but I wanted meaning to my life and hence showing my future wife meaning to hers. I always expected that mine would also give me that same security, trust, purity etc and that we would both experience life and sex together.

 

 

Now I find that I have fallen bad for this girl. I find myself wayyy in too deep. And this is not the girl I always imagined I would have been with.

 

You all know the history so ill skip that.

 

Part of me does understand the pain and suffering she had gone through with her rape and I have cried many times just because of that for her. But I also know though a woman doesnt deserve to be raped and has every right to say no, that they also should use their brains. This scumbag had made all his intentions clear yet off she goes past midnight to his place out in nowhere land(place she had never been) starts making out drinking etc Everything that would have increased her chances of being raped she did. Any person with an iota of self respect and esteem would have told him to **** off.

 

So then what happens to her happens and she doesnt report it nor did she realllllllly struggle like it was life or death instead to ease the pain she gets really drunk. However had she stopped she would have realised that her behaviour and alcohol is what got her there in the first place but now she goes ahead drinking. Yet she doesnt on school days so she obviously has a distinction of whats right and whats not because she didnt sleep with everybody either nor make out in front of others.

 

She kept repeating it all till 6months later just before she comes over she goes to bed with the 2nd guy(just to stay over) and he starts turning her own and pulls her clothes off and they go at it. Now she moves right in with this loser who needs dope and alcohol just to sleep with you. And does everything with him giving him BJs when he wouldnt return it to her etc And when she comes back home surprise he dumps her.

 

And she had managed to stay away from others I guess because they gave her a vibe back in the states and who gave it to her? her friends males

 

 

I met her and theres the whole Im a nice girl act. Yet gets into my bed and tries the same things with me and I stop her and tell her to respect herself. I told her what are you looking for? respect yourself a little. Then she thought that maybe I needed viagra etc lol

 

So little by little her lies and deciet are exposed even though right at the beginning I asked for everything. Little by little her stories change. Now im at a stage where I dont know what to believe really. She says if she had told me everything I would have walked away and yes I would have but she had no right to hide it and keep lying to me either.

 

A huge part of me is trying to be understanding of her rape and its impact on her. But the 2nd guy she willingly chose and chose to move in with him and all her other choices and she even repeated the same moves on me. Now im supposed to feel special? I have been lied to, I have been misled, I have been tricked, to her ****ing has no meaning yet she claims with me it would though she also admits she was horny and wet for the other guy, then she says its because well be married though she lived in a marriage like situation with that loser for 3 months. And when she tells me not to leave her she has done the same to that loser too.

 

Then ofcourse it was all her choices. She could have picked decent people. She could have joined a sports club etc. She could have filled her time with many other things. She had the same choices that I had but she chose to give in and take the easy way out.

 

Everything she did is things I have stood against. Watching porn(because its degrading!) yet she says it was only a couple of times whereas I have left places because of that reason. Drinking and partying (within moderation ok but not to excess of losing control and impairing your judgements). Making out with anybody. Sleeping around. Being such a slut that male friends would give you a vibe! Sleeping moaning and making noises when there are others literally just behind the door.

 

 

These are guys that did nothing for her except just flowers and be nice. I had travelled about 3 times round the world for her. She called me back and I came back 9000km just for her (whereas the 2nd guy just dumped her). I gave up on a job oppurtunity worth 120K. I have spent probably around 15k on her surprising her with gifts, delicacies, lunches dinners etc. Yet believe it or not she would count her literally count her pennies with me!

Whenever she had been depressed or lonely or had issues at work or home I would always listen to her and stand by her. For all this all I have gotten is lies, deciet, a bad past, no virginity, nothing left for me to be a first with.

 

I feel hopeless. I have given so much of myself to her yet get nothing in return that I wanted such as being a first, feeling special because of that, having left something for me etc. I have done so much for her and been there so much for her because I VALUED HER and I TREATED her with respect and cared for her truly yet she gave herself away for so little and so cheaply. Had I known that was who she was I would have evaulated her not worthy to me and stayed friends or something but not gotten involved.

 

 

And because I am in so deep I am confused. A large part of me deep down feels sorry for her rape and the suffering she went through and that same part is what is so vengeful towards the rapist. Sometimes a part of me also feels sorry for her and states look at what shes done to herself, she deserves so much better than what she put herself through and how cheaply she gave herself away and what she turned herself into.

Then theres the part that tells me you aint getting anything that others havent already gotten. The only reason she wants you is because of how you treated her like a princess and thats directly related to you waiting because had you not you would have played her game and when you found out her baggage etc you would have dumped her. And that sleeping with a guy has no meaning and the act is nothing significantly important because shes done it many times before and even with others around and didnt care. And then theres all that information of her past and photos that haunts me. And this part tells me she doesnt deserve me and its not fair. She deserves someone like herself whose slept around ****ed women with others just behind the door etc and then lets see how special she feels and by her own admissions knowing she was that losers no 11 she didnt feel special at all.

 

Funny thing is though I am her best friend. I have always been there for her. I am the only person that understands her so well and what shes been through and who she really is. Who she really is and what she showed the world are opposites.

 

And even funnier is she wont let me lose my virginity to anybody else or watch porn(when i flick the channel on) or drink or go clubbing etc. Why because she says its not right.

 

So she had her fun. Had her ****ing around. And now maybe wants to settle down and found this guy. And she wont let me do what she herself has done!!! And anytime she tells me Im special she cant prove it or tell me even 1 single thing shes left for me or something she hasnt done with somebody else.

 

Then ofcourse there are those graphic photos why keep them for so long? ANd I feel soooooo special seeing her BJing that loser, and nudy shots and them in the act with his pen3s being inserted into her. And she claims he doesnt have any photos of her and then now she says he MIGHT have some in her underwear which might change later into more sexual shots etc.

 

 

 

I have taken time off from her (my choice) to evualate things and even now my thoughts keep going back to her and ranges from how much I miss her, how sad I am she isnt here, how unspecial I am, how she tricked me etc. If I were not involved like at the beginning and she told me everything I could have walked away. But because of her lies and deciet we lasted so long and im in so deep which is why its all so confusing.

And im worried that should I leave her she might harm herself etc

 

What would have made me happy and gave some meaning of how special I am to her is if she had only kissed some guys(preferably none) but she had not slept with anybody or worst case only that rape had happened and maybe had some dates etc. Then I could have felt special especially if she had done nothing but had she been raped I would have still felt special enough yet knowing all I know I dont feel it. And whats worse is my virginity something I fought so hard to keep would mean nothing to her though she WANTS it and yet she cant give me anything that she hasnt already done.

 

 

Then ofcourse does she really love me? Does she know what that means because her record says no. Is she desperate and has found this awesome guy and doesnt want to let him go at any cost which is why she lied and tricked me?

 

To me finding a virgin is not hard. I can easily find one. Easy. But as you can see im stuck here.

 

Please stop attacking me and help me sort this out. I need somebody to understand where Im coming from and understand the pain and anguish im going through. Please dont feed your ideology down my throat in terms of premartial sex being okay and sex is just sex etc because I dont buy it.

If you want to flame me or attack me etc feel free not to respond at all.

[maria577]

Its good you took time off from her genki. In this way, you can evaluate all the confusion you have within you. Try getting to know other girls.... I can feel you are in deep pain and are desperate but be strong ok...If you and her are meant to be... then it will happen...

[sally4sara]

Genki,

This is the most well thought out explanation you've posted. Bravo!

I will think on what you've said here. Your mention of traveling the distance for her touches me; this is something my partner and I have done for each other and I know the weight and the serious intent of doing this for someone.

 

This is a much more reasonable side to you; you need to show it more.

[genki]

Its good you took time off from her genki. In this way, you can evaluate all the confusion you have within you. Try getting to know other girls.... I can feel you are in deep pain and are desperate but be strong ok...If you and her are meant to be... then it will happen...

 

Maria if the situations were reversed and you were stuck in my shoes and your guy had done all that. What would you do? How would you feel?

 

Would you walk away? Because you also seem to cherish your virginity and have kept it so how would you feel knowing you waited so long etc yet he went around doing what he did? How special would you feel? Would you not maybe feel he isnt worth it? What about all the lies etc?

 

 

I have taken time because I dont think its fair to either of us. I need time and help to sort this out.

[genki]

Genki,

 

This is a much more reasonable side to you; you need to show it more.

 

Thanks. I would love to If I didnt feel so threatened and made out to be a phsycotic maniac and the bad guy always feeling that I have to defend myself etc. On here I can post my fears and anxieties and whats eating me so people can help me and I can then hopefully sort all this out. That doesnt mean I treat her like that IRL and I certainly dont shoot all my fears anxieties hopelessness etc at her so it builds up within me and I need help hence why i post it here to try to get to a solution..

[maria577]

okk Jenkii okk... if you want me to be frank with you here goes:

 

I have been looking for a guy who has the same moral beliefs as I have but there is no one exactly like me ,, but I have met a guy and we have a common ground or a common belief and in that belief we make our relationship stronger....

 

In your case,, it is totally totally out of my moral beliefs. If my BF had a blowjob and all those kinds of stuff...I would not continue the relationship because there is no way I am going to do those things to him and there is no way I am going to permit him to degrade myself...

 

I am more in the development of the spiritual side of the relationship first before entering into the physical aspect. A guy who has had a lot of BJs, and all those sexual position people talk about are more in it for the physical relationship.

 

I am not against having a physical relationship but there is always a time for everything.. There is a saying among guys.. WHY BUY THE COW WHEN U CAN GET THE MILK..( why commit or marry the girl when u can get the sex).. SO I have been very aware with all of these stuff and I have been very very careful with men.... If a guy truly loves a woman,,, a man will wait for her and commit to her. I have seen this with my own two eyes in my family... I have learned this values form my parents and my parents have been married for 40 years. we are a whole and united family.

 

I am glad that you took time off... You should love yourself first before you can love somebody. SHe has hurt you because she has lied to you... Try to spend more time in your work , family and friends and try to figure things out. Remember,, marriage is a commitment for life..If she is the girl meant for you,,,, no matter what you do, she will always come back to you(that is if it is meant to be) but For now,, you did a good decision,,, you need time to heal and to be with yourself and become whole again:)

 

Maria

[genki]

I guess maria we are similar to eachother.

 

But what would you do when you have been with this guy for 8 months etc and slowly find out his lies etc. Could you just walk away? Would you consider forgiving him? How would you deal with all the information and photos and doubts it had created in your head?

 

I too believe in committing and marrying and honor a girl first and giving her everything of yourself and who you are before sex and waiting for her no matter how long it took since you love her. But like you said Why buy the cow when you can get the milk. Why commit and marry the woman when you can get the sex. Many many many times guys girls etc will swear the love etc somebody and once theyve had the sex etc they find it easier to walk away and the more experienced they become the easier they find it to walk and not bother staying in or trying harder because they are so experienced and with time and their multiple relationships they become harder, less willing to compromise, more selfish, trying not to get hurt and compare this guy to their past ones etc. Lots of times girls say "men are all pigs" thats because the women let them.

[maria577]

that is the hard part ..because you are already in love with her..however you have to be clear if you are in love with the REAL her or if you are inlove with the person whom you thoguht she was.

 

I cannot say what I would do because I have not experinced that kind of deception... I guess time will tell and reveal how you really feel for her but for now I suggest you concentrate on your own healing. It has been a relationship of lies, you just can't go on and pretend nothing has happened, right?... I know I know,, it is easy for mee to tell you this because I am not experiencing the pain....but all I can say is that TIME heals all wounds... I can truly see you are hurting inside...but remember you won't die because of love heheh (just kidding jenki..try smiling a bit and relax)

 

When did you take time off with her?

[genki]

that is the hard part ..because you are already in love with her..however you have to be clear if you are in love with the REAL her or if you are inlove with the person whom you thoguht she was.

 

I cannot say what I would do because I have not experinced that kind of deception... I guess time will tell and reveal how you really feel for her but for now I suggest you concentrate on your own healing. It has been a relationship of lies, you just can't go on and pretend nothing has happened, right?... I know I know,, it is easy for mee to tell you this because I am not experiencing the pain....but all I can say is that TIME heals all wounds... I can truly see you are hurting inside...but remember you won't die because of love heheh (just kidding jenki..try smiling a bit and relax)

 

When did you take time off with her?

 

Good question. The her she showed me at the beginning was this cool acting bitchy type but everything in my heart told me she has been hurt and she isnt that person. And I was right ( ithink unless she fooled me). She (if im right and not fooled) is this sweet insecure emotional girl that is adorable beautiful and when she smiles you feel happy. Just like a little kid on the inside but to survive maybe she put this tough outside(again if im not wrong or tricked).

see how confused I am? I dont even know what to believe now because of all the lies.

 

I told her it was off and she surprised me and it has now been about 3-4days and I have thought constantly only of her and what to do.

 

We would have been perfect had she waited and not had such a sordid past nor any lies etc between us.

[maria577]

well ,there isnt a perfect couple jenki and even in marriage there will always be trials and tribulations adn it takes two very strong people to make a relationship work.

 

I see you are still so in love with her but there is a part of you that says no to her.... See,,, you still need time...You can't make a decision right now cuz you are still confused.. I can't also make a decision for you: To forget or not forget her ... are u busy in your work?? try takng your mind off this situation and see how life goes without her. This is still fresh,, try meeting other people... I know its hard.. I have to sleep now.. Its late here in Florida... By the way,,, are you in Japan? are u also japanese??

[sally4sara]

You find yourself with an everyone problem. I don't mean it's common, but even people who don't wait for marriage have to deal with this: You are happily grooving on getting to know someone. You've told all your friends about them, and you have your hopes up. Then BAM! they drop some info that you can't wrap your head around. Now you cannot reconcile who you thought you were dating with who is standing in front of you. It changes everything.

I know you talk about people who can just walk away when this happens even though they've had sex. But you haven't so you owe her nothing here.

You also talk about everything you've done for her and how she hasn't lived in a way that you feel makes her someone who deserves it. But Genki, if you have been treating her in the way that made you happy to do these things for her, then those things were not in vain. Unless you did not happily do them. If you were not happy in those actions, you should've been doing them virginity or no.

Does she want to give that up? Of course not!

It is very important to you that you can feel special. You feel like she has no "firsts" left for you but you're wrong.

You are the first guy to treat her like a lady and the first guy to show her what love could really be like. And that is special. Hopefully, whether you stay with her or not, you will become the standard she compares every guy after you to.

This does come back to something I've already said to you. The reward for doing right isn't the goal. The reward for doing right is that you were able to stick to it and you should expect so prize for it to all be worth it. What you should feel special for here is that you didn't give in for anything less than love.

See something I know that you've yet to realize is that sex, fun as it is, isn't the end all be all of a relationship. Love and acceptance is what its all about. You will find a person's love in their actions, not their orgasm. I am not my bf's first kiss, or sexual partner. He isn't my first either. But I am the first person he has changed his life for, the first person he can look at and see forever with. And we do know everything about each other's past and accept every bit of it. That is what special is about.

Staying with your girl won't make everything you've stood for be nothing. You did those things for yourself before you even knew her. Did you not feel good about being able to do that? If so, then it wasn't for nothing.

Her lying about everything........not cool, but what could she do? Maybe she didn't know there was a guy out there who would show her love in the way of actions and when she found a guy who could do that she got scared that she wouldn't be able to keep it. Maybe she does regret her past, but she cannot change it now. She can only choose to change now how she lives from this point on. Is that not enough to make you feel special? Someone could meet you and change their entire outlook on love? That is pretty damn special and the best she can offer you. If its not enough then walk away. But if you do, I don't think you need to feel like you were wasting time. You did all those things for reasons that had nothing to do with how she lived her life before you. You would've done those things with whoever you fell in love with.

[genki]

You find yourself with an everyone problem. I don't mean it's common, but even people who don't wait for marriage have to deal with this: You are happily grooving on getting to know someone. You've told all your friends about them, and you have your hopes up. Then BAM! they drop some info that you can't wrap your head around. Now you cannot reconcile who you thought you were dating with who is standing in front of you. It changes everything.

I know you talk about people who can just walk away when this happens even though they've had sex. But you haven't so you owe her nothing here.

You also talk about everything you've done for her and how she hasn't lived in a way that you feel makes her someone who deserves it. But Genki, if you have been treating her in the way that made you happy to do these things for her, then those things were not in vain. Unless you did not happily do them. If you were not happy in those actions, you should've been doing them virginity or no.

Does she want to give that up? Of course not!

It is very important to you that you can feel special. You feel like she has no "firsts" left for you but you're wrong.

You are the first guy to treat her like a lady and the first guy to show her what love could really be like. And that is special. Hopefully, whether you stay with her or not, you will become the standard she compares every guy after you to.

This does come back to something I've already said to you. The reward for doing right isn't the goal. The reward for doing right is that you were able to stick to it and you should expect so prize for it to all be worth it. What you should feel special for here is that you didn't give in for anything less than love.

See something I know that you've yet to realize is that sex, fun as it is, isn't the end all be all of a relationship. Love and acceptance is what its all about. You will find a person's love in their actions, not their orgasm. I am not my bf's first kiss, or sexual partner. He isn't my first either. But I am the first person he has changed his life for, the first person he can look at and see forever with. And we do know everything about each other's past and accept every bit of it. That is what special is about.

Staying with your girl won't make everything you've stood for be nothing. You did those things for yourself before you even knew her. Did you not feel good about being able to do that? If so, then it wasn't for nothing.

Her lying about everything........not cool, but what could she do? Maybe she didn't know there was a guy out there who would show her love in the way of actions and when she found a guy who could do that she got scared that she wouldn't be able to keep it. Maybe she does regret her past, but she cannot change it now. She can only choose to change now how she lives from this point on. Is that not enough to make you feel special? Someone could meet you and change their entire outlook on love? That is pretty damn special and the best she can offer you. If its not enough then walk away. But if you do, I don't think you need to feel like you were wasting time. You did all those things for reasons that had nothing to do with how she lived her life before you. You would've done those things with whoever you fell in love with.

 

Sally: You have made an excellent point that just made me realise something. I did do everything I did for her because I did love her not because I necessarily wanted it in return. I was neither forced nor obligated to do any of them but felt she deserved to be treated better than she had been and that she needed to know she was worth a lot even to a guy like me. The smile on her face and the happiness in her eyes were all the rewards I needed at that point.

 

 

Jeez im getting teary back later.

[genki]

What I did and how I lived my life was to give it meaning and I was happy and proud of living like that but a large reason was also to give meaning to my wifes life and show her how special she was.

 

 

I know I have changed her beyond measure physically and emotionally and that if she could forget everybody she could never ever forget me. I also showed her the love doesnt mean sex and that if a guy truly loves you he will wait for as long as it takes and that she need not degrade herself.

 

I wouldnt regret it knowing I made such a positive change in a person life somebody whom i loved dearly. But I also dont know what she might do should I walk away? And that scares me too for her sake.

 

For me to feel special I needed some firsts apart from emotions. Im talking physicals something anything but I dont get that.

 

She now says she truly regrets her past and every sordid thing she did and she wouldnt even recognise that slut (her words). And how was she to know such a great guy even exists a guy whose handsome cool caring muscular etc and even at 26 still having waited when everybody else was screwing like rabbits?

 

I now realise that yes I would not regret what I did for her because those are things I would have done for somebody i loved that much.

 

 

What burns me up is that physically theres nothing left for me that others havent explored. I cant compare there and I dont feel special at all when I think about that. Lets even say and assume that I trust her 1 last time and forgive her past but how am I supposed to get rid of the images stuck in my head? How can I get rid of all the info? What if I cant love her physically because im always turned off by her past?

 

And why does she insist on taking my virginity away? She wont allow me to go clubbing, making out with anybody, sleep with someone else nothing.

[shaygal]

wow really what else to say ....... okay yes she sounds like a false person i mean y lie, maybe at first she didnt tell u much because she didnt want u to judge her, and then when she felt she could trust u she started to open up more, not saying its right or if thats the case...but it definately could be a reason, but now u know and really so what!!! its ur choice to stay with her or not, but to stay with someone after knowing u have to accept who she is and thats including her past, and to accept that it means dont throw it in her face, its in the past, u know about it, but it has nothing to do with ur relationship now...so u have to move past that..and stop living in her past, she dont want it thrown in her face .... and if u cant do that well go find urself a virgin

[huh]

Huh, you are correct in this. However, I do not think he will be motivated at this point to be either supportive, or caring towards her, so long as he is on the fence about his ability to continue the relationship.

 

One step at a time friend. He needs to make a choice FIRST.

 

What about the incredible amount of emotional damage (saying she got herself raped, she's not good enough for him) he's inflicting on someone who's arleady been traumatized by rape? I'm not saying he has to stay with her/support her. Just that he shouldn't be making her situation worse, which he clearly is by his own posts.

[Tripper]

Genki, since we've all toned down let's see if we can put some more rational perspective to your dilemma...

 

In thinking about all that's been said there seem to be two issues that come to mind. The first is why your gf acted the way she did and the second the value system involved by both you and your gf.

 

She comes from a culture that is different in many ways from Western culture. Family life, position in society etc are much more structure and she was probably raised with a number of restrictions on her. Interacting with her male peers in Japan posed little danger since they were also raised the same way.

 

She travels to the West and finds herself 10k miles from home, in a different culture not really understanding that in our society things are different. The differences in permissiveness, lack of parental control etc are not obvious to her because her only frame of reference is what was instilled in her in Japan.

Also, if it was her first time away from home she now is faced with a new found freedom, but not the maturity, understanding or responsibility to recognize the pitfalls. And like most young adults (and you are because you are in your '20's , you don't really get it together until late '30's, but that's a different thread) having the freedom and the sense of being "bullet proof" she put herself in situations that seemed to be the norm in a new society using the only measure she knew; that being her life experiences from her own culture and society.

Then things blow up. She experiments with alcohol (didn't many of us??), gets date raped and when the smoke clears, major internal conflict of traditional values vis-a-vis her actions occur. If she, like many women at that age, have any issues of self esteem a dangerous downward spiral begins. For some it's anorexia or bulimia they struggle with. For others it's their own self worth and acceptance. For your gf it sounds like she used sex to gain acceptance and perhaps alcohol to ease the pain. Is this normal?? My god, when I think back to my late teens to mid '20s there are somethings I'm not particularly proud of. So IMHO yes we all go through the "experimental years", trying, as trite as it may sound, to find ourselves. I'm not asking you to embrace the moral value, rather open your mind to human frailty.

The second thing that comes to mind is the values you both hold. If you want to have a life together then you need to base it on common values, love isn't enough. Values such as "how do you spend or save your money?", "how are children going to be raised?", "How and by whom does the work in and around the house get done?". These and many more issues are at the heart of every failed marriage, for these are the very building blocks of a foundation that successful relationships are built on.

Now you have a high moral value on virginity. I'm not saying that your gf doesn't , but at this point you can't un-ring the bell. She may have lost her way for awhile, made some very serious errors in judgment and actions, but do you HONESTLY believe that she has no regrets?? Do you HONESTLY believe she wouldn't undo her actions if it were possible. Do you HONESTLY believe she's learned and changed and found once again the values she lost sight of?? Only you can answer that.

If any of what I have written here makes sense, I think you need to really do some thinking about her as a person and HER struggle.

 

How do you get the history and images out of your mind?? Now that is an excellent question. As much as I hate answering a question with a question I need to ask this. Do you value her as a person, loving, loyal, caring etc. or do you value her past?? Do you value how she treats you, responds to you, looks at you or do you value her history?? Can you see a long future together, creating your own experiences and memories?? a family?? a life together?? Can you see living with her within a value system you both share??

 

Please give this some thought before firing off a response. I'm trying to look at her as a person, a human being, rather than a "history of actions" and perhaps, during your hiatus from the relationship, you could do the same thing.

[sally4sara]

What about the incredible amount of emotional damage (saying she got herself raped, she's not good enough for him) he's inflicting on someone who's arleady been traumatized by rape? I'm not saying he has to stay with her/support her. Just that he shouldn't be making her situation worse, which he clearly is by his own posts.

 

I'm going to look at his reaction to her past experiences much in the same way we are telling him to look at her past. He (like she once was) is dealing with issues outside of his box and he was going about it all wrong. If we assume he cannot change his outlook on her, then we have to also assume she cannot go through a bout of partying irresponsibly and lack of discretion, realize it wasn't working for her and make a real change in the way she acts.

Obviously, the idea that a woman is even partially responsible for getting raped is offensive and hopefully he can understand that.

Hear that Genki? A woman has every right to leave her home wearing whatever she wants, imbibe alcohol if of age, and go where ever she is invited to go should she chose to without EXPECTING to be raped. It does not mean she was asking for it.

But at the same time, I can at least comprehend that when he is angry, how he might think these things. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, he has the benefit of knowing what the result was and that always makes the events that lead up to it seem like neon warning signs. In his anger, he has lashed out at the only person involved that he has access to. It doesn't make it right, but if we can accept one person's failings, we have to be willing to accept another's. He may be 26, but he is lacking in the kind of experience (the experience that comes with having a real relationship with another person) that can change us from self absorbed children into compassionate adults.

He has made a big step here. He calmed down and really thought about how he feels in this enough that he was able to articulate it in a progressive way. If he can do that for complete strangers, then I can hope he can do that for someone he claims to love.

[huh]

Ah, so a few kinder/toned downed words & it's ok to blame a rape survivor for her own fate? And we have to feel sorry for the blamer?

 

I've had several friends & relatives who were raped & narrowly escaped being raped myself once. Many thanks to all of the folks willing to accept Genki's bs. You've accomplished what he couldn't. I'm now officially done with this POS thread. Good day/evening to you all.

[sally4sara]

Ah, so a few kinder/toned downed words & it's ok to blame a rape survivor for her own fate? And we have to feel sorry for the blamer?

 

I've had several friends & relatives who were raped & narrowly escaped being raped myself once. Many thanks to all of the folks willing to accept Genki's bs. You've accomplished what he couldn't. I'm now officially done with this POS thread. Good day/evening to you all.

 

Jeez lady! What do you want me to do? I cannot go back and undo what he has said anymore than he can make his girlfriends past go away. The only thing anyone in this thread can do is encourage him when he has a revelation and call him on his crap when he isn't trying. It's not like I can sock him in the nose or spit on him.

 

But hey, thanks for helping make the points you've contributed.