Take out your piercings, damn it!

[KittenMoon]

I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. It would leave the door wide open for a civil suit.

 

So it's only okay to reject someone based on a piercing if they don't know about it? Giving them a chance to take it out, cover it up, etc based on the same company policy that would have denied them the job in the first place is a lawsuit waiting to happen?

 

In anycase, there are plenty of "mini-studs" and the like you can get to wear to work, while keeping your piercing open. We had a guy here (a young intern) who had one- it was barely noticeable and very acceptable.

[Trialbyfire]

So it's only okay to reject someone based on a piercing if they don't know about it? Giving them a chance to take it out, cover it up, etc based on the same company policy that would have denied them the job in the first place is a lawsuit waiting to happen?

 

In anycase, there are plenty of "mini-studs" and the like you can get to wear to work, while keeping your piercing open. We had a guy here (a young intern) who had one- it was barely noticeable and very acceptable.

You lost me. OB has a piercing which has a cultural aspect to it. We have a multi-cultural acceptance policy in Canada where if it's discreet, it's not an issue. This is not pure aesthetics. Having said that, a member of the Sikh community will not be hired, if he chooses to wear a ceremonial dagger. It endangers everyone, cultural aspect or not.

 

As for job denial based on a piercing that's been removed, having a piercing isn't the issue, being bold enough to wear a piercing for aesthetics in an interview is not acceptable, if there's no cultural aspect.

 

Telling someone why you're not hiring them for any reason, leaves you open to nuisance civil suits. Regardless if you win or lose, you still have to put in the time, energy, stress and overall cost (time=money), to defend your position, where management time would be better spent doing something productive, therefore, generating revenue or service which generates revenue.

 

Seriously KittenMoon, you need to get some experience in this area. You're viewing this in purely black and white terms but in reality, it's the employers' choice, no matter what you choose to deem is right or wrong. You personally will be hired, if the employer deems you to be worth hiring, for whatever the criteria they set. If they don't like the 30th eyelash in your left eye, which sticks out only on Mondays, you won't get hired, with no explanation.

[KittenMoon]

As for job denial based on a piercing that's been removed, having a piercing isn't the issue, being bold enough to wear a piercing for aesthetics in an interview is not acceptable, if there's no cultural aspect.

 

Well, did anyone ask the girl if her piercing was cultural or not?

 

Seriously KittenMoon, you need to get some experience in this area. You're viewing this in purely black and white terms but in reality, it's the employers' choice, no matter what you choose to deem is right or wrong. You personally will be hired, if the employer deems you to be worth hiring, for whatever the criteria they set. If they don't like the 30th eyelash in your left eye, which sticks out only on Mondays, you won't get hired, with no explanation.

 

I've been NOT hired plenty of times for lack of experience (due to youth, not ability) and considering how dumb some of those non-hirings were (though I respected the decision) this just makes me EXTRA adamant about not overlooking someone for trivial reasons.

[blind_otter]

Well, did anyone ask the girl if her piercing was cultural or not?

 

In what culture do they pierce tongues? I'm just asking. This girl was white as snow.

[KittenMoon]

In what culture do they pierce tongues? I'm just asking.

 

No idea, but I imagine there's a few here or there.

 

ANyways, I was just pointing out she could have said anything, and therein lies the icky, sticky grey area of social vs. cultural acceptance.

 

Heck, she could have looked the interviewer right in the eye and said "YOUTH culture."

[bish]

I'm temporarily working as a receptionist at my office because we don't have one right now. We're interviewing for them. We had one potential candidate and I was ecstatic because I hate working as a receptionist on top of the other duties I have like bookkeeping and proofreading (it's hard to proofread when you have to answer the phone all the damn time).

 

So one girl had her second interview today - I was really hoping that she would get the damn job. But NOOoooOOooo, she had to be an idiot and wear her tongue ring into the interview.

 

Ok, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening.

 

LOL...reminds me of Denis Leary's rant about coffee and a kid at 7-11 with piercings in this clip --> http://youtube.com/watch?v=aQxgv4QtKM8

 

I love it when he starts in about getting his coffee at a 7-11.

[Trialbyfire]

Well, did anyone ask the girl if her piercing was cultural or not?

 

I've been NOT hired plenty of times for lack of experience (due to youth, not ability) and considering how dumb some of those non-hirings were (though I respected the decision) this just makes me EXTRA adamant about not overlooking someone for trivial reasons.

Since when have tongue piercings been a cultural stereotype?

 

My first job in my industry was through connections. Since that time, my jobs have been where the employers have head-hunted me. I've been stolen from firm-to-firm, each new employer meeting my terms and conditions. I went from being employed in management to being a partner in a venture, selling my piece of the partnership, working as a contractual Consultant to one firm, then starting my own consulting firm, with myself as the only employee. I'm currently deciding if I want to partner with an Eastern contact, to expand nationally. The reason I'm sharing my experience, is that it has provided me with a lot of insight into hiring and made me realize how much professionalism is appreciated, in both appearance and attitude. You have to walk the walk and talk the talk.

[KittenMoon]

My first job in my industry was through connections. Since that time, my jobs have been where the employers have head-hunted me. I've been stolen from firm-to-firm, each new employer meeting my terms and conditions. I went from being employed in management to being a partner in a venture, selling my piece of the partnership, working as a contractual Consultant to one firm, then starting my own consulting firm, with myself as the only employee. I'm currently deciding if I want to partner with an Eastern contact, to expand nationally. The reason I'm sharing my experience, is that it has provided me with a lot of insight into hiring and made me realize how much professionalism is appreciated, in both appearance and attitude. You have to walk the walk and talk the talk.

 

Well, I'm all about kicking the idea that piercings & tattoos = unprofessional. Professionalism can be a walk and a talk and an attitude, even if that person has piercings or tats.

 

It's cool though- I don't mind having a bigger pool of talent than other places.

[KittenMoon]

LOL...reminds me of Denis Leary's rant about coffee and a kid at 7-11 with piercings in this clip --> http://youtube.com/watch?v=aQxgv4QtKM8

 

I love it when he starts in about getting his coffee at a 7-11.

 

 

Haha. That was pretty funny- I remember when this guy I had a class in college got a tongue piercing and he wanted the biggest one. I was just like..... Ew.

 

But hey, to each their own.

[Trialbyfire]

Well, I'm all about kicking the idea that piercings & tattoos = unprofessional. Professionalism can be a walk and a talk and an attitude, even if that person has piercings or tats.

 

It's cool though- I don't mind having a bigger pool of talent than other places.

Yes, piercings and tats are about attitude, just not a professional attitude within any conservative business. It will remain as such because both tats and piercings are based solely on fashion. There is no purpose for them, in a non-cultural aspect, beyond aesthetics.

[KittenMoon]

Yes, piercings and tats are about attitude, just not a professional attitude within any conservative business. It will remain as such because both tats and piercings are based solely on fashion. There is no purpose for them, in a non-cultural aspect, beyond aesthetics.

 

But you could say the same thing about a tie, or cologne, or cut of shirt, type of suit, etc etc.

 

I order shirts for sales peeps for trade shows all the time, so I understand the concept of a professional appearance (seriously, I have to be like 'I'm not ordering you guys that shirt, it's horrid' all the time ) but I also feel that people should consider the overall appearance, and not focus on a singular minor thing, whether it's a piercing or the bad choice of wearing an informal golf shirt on the trade floor.

[Trialbyfire]

But you could say the same thing about a tie, or cologne, or cut of shirt, type of suit, etc etc.

 

I order shirts for sales peeps for trade shows all the time, so I understand the concept of a professional appearance (seriously, I have to be like 'I'm not ordering you guys that shirt, it's horrid' all the time ) but I also feel that people should consider the overall appearance, and not focus on a singular minor thing, whether it's a piercing or the bad choice of wearing an informal golf shirt on the trade floor.

In a nutshell...bad choice...

 

If someone were to come to an interview with a bad choice of golf shirt, they would not be hired.

[KittenMoon]

In a nutshell...bad choice...

 

If someone were to come to an interview with a bad choice of golf shirt, they would not be hired.

 

Yet far more employers would be willing to look beyond a golf shirt rather than a piercing because it's socially accepted, even though BOTH are considered bad choices for an interview.

 

Gah, and I just spent 1.5hrs fixing* the company printer because our "professional" IT manager refuses to spend 10min with the equipment he's responsible for and instead shirks everything off on service guys, even the problem is CLEARLY on our end.

 

Here is an excellent example of where I'd prefer a punk kid who'd be willing to do his job doing our network stuff, as opposed to the "professional" guy with the longer resume. /vent

 

(*I am not an IT person!!!)

[Trialbyfire]

Yet far more employers would be willing to look beyond a golf shirt rather than a piercing because it's socially accepted, even though BOTH are considered bad choices for an interview.

 

Gah, and I just spent 1.5hrs fixing* the company printer because our "professional" IT manager refuses to spend 10min with the equipment he's responsible for and instead shirks everything off on service guys, even the problem is CLEARLY on our end.

 

Here is an excellent example of where I'd prefer a punk kid who'd be willing to do his job doing our network stuff, as opposed to the "professional" guy with the longer resume. /vent

 

(*I am not an IT person!!!)

Why would your IT manager be fixing printers? Doesn't he have any staff?

[KittenMoon]

Why would your IT manager be fixing printers? Doesn't he have any staff?

 

No, we're a small company. Only one IT person, but he's a "manager" (don't ask me how that works, I think it just means a bigger salary here )

[Curmudgeon]

...that tats and piercings are just another fad. They're no different than beehive hairdos, poddle skirts, polyester leisure suits, powdered wigs, ponytails on men, goatees or afros. In time they'll be left behind for something newer and more in vogue. Unfortunately, the tats can't be packed away in the attic to only be brought out for halloween a generation later and laughed at like the rest.

 

Professional attire and appearance have always spanned the generations. They have lasting power. All the rest is just fluff and fleeting.

[Trialbyfire]

No, we're a small company. Only one IT person, but he's a "manager" (don't ask me how that works, I think it just means a bigger salary here )

No kidding. Your company sounds like a startup with everyone responsible for everything. You know you can defer responsibility back to where it belongs...

[KittenMoon]

No kidding. Your company sounds like a startup with everyone responsible for everything. You know you can defer responsibility back to where it belongs...

 

It's not a start up, it actually has a long history, it's just a small technology company and sometimes people end up wearing a lot of hats.

 

For example, I do graphic design and production, marketing,product design, web design and editing, writing, hospitality for visitors, and I help or outright run the organization of nearly all company social events. I've also been our United Way rep, coordinator for Health&Exercise initiative, and I get to pick up IT slack more often than not.

 

Jill of all trades..... it's just annoying sometimes. (like when I have to fix a network I don't even know all the passwords for, or how the system is organized, etc)

[Curmudgeon]

Since when have tongue piercings been a cultural stereotype?

 

...ever since they became almost synonymous with blowjobs!

[allina]

The thing that would bother me about it that she didn't have the COMMON SENSE to take it out for a job interview. I feel like if someone really wants a job they consider things like taking out piercings.

 

I have had many piercings over the years and my SO is tatted up, we both enjoy that sort of "look" but we're also professionals and it's obvious to us that these things are not appropriate for a professional setting.

 

At the same time I feel like if this girl was so great in every way except for the tongue ring your boss could have offered her the job with the condition that she removes the ring.

[uniqueone]

TBF, you've avoided the question on several posts. Who is the judge of what is considered "cultural"?

 

And you didn't answer my questions about those wearing cultural adornments when they were not born in their native land.

 

And if they can wear cultural symbols, not having been born in their native land, then wouldn't that mean that ALL people could wear their native symbols? And if not, then why not? Why would it be that SOME people could wear cultural symbols and some could not?

 

And who is being the judge of WHICH cultures are able to be displayed?

[O'Malley]

Employers can have dress codes and discuss them with prospective and current employees precisely because dress codes do promote their professional image. The same applies for positions requiring a uniform to be worn.

 

I agree that there could be the possibility of a civil suit, but there could also be the possibility of civil suits arising out a perceived bias in the workplace, such as allowing a current employee to show a USMC tattoo or cultural piercing while restricting other employees from having tats/piercings.

[Curmudgeon]

TBF, you've avoided the question on several posts. Who is the judge of what is considered "cultural"?

 

How about "cultural" being defined as the predominant norms and morays of the country/society in which you have taken up residence?

 

In other words, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

 

Even more simply, if you're in America, be American, not a hyphenate or any other abberation!

[Ocean-Blue]

TBF, you've avoided the question on several posts. Who is the judge of what is considered "cultural"?

 

And you didn't answer my questions about those wearing cultural adornments when they were not born in their native land.

 

And if they can wear cultural symbols, not having been born in their native land, then wouldn't that mean that ALL people could wear their native symbols? And if not, then why not? Why would it be that SOME people could wear cultural symbols and some could not?

 

And who is being the judge of WHICH cultures are able to be displayed?

 

Whether one was born in their "native land" is irrelevant to cultural expression. There are those who were born in Canada who identify with a particular culture because of ancestral ties, familial influence, etc. Then there are those who have absolutely no ties a culture despite being born and raised in their "native land". Some have assimilated in such a way that they do not feel any ties to their culture of birth (they fully adopt the cultural identity of their new home).

 

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects people from state discrimination based on religious beliefs. The Supreme Court has stated that the accuracy of one's belief or even the veracity of it is not relevant (otherwise it would be too intrusive).

 

As mentioned by TBF, a Sikh may not bring a ceremonial dagger to work because it endangers the safety of others. This conclusion was made after the court balanced the rights of the employees against the rights of the claimant.

 

In the case of a nose ring, a court would be hard pressed to find that the employer was NOT being discriminatory. Both the CCRF and other human rights legislation suggest as much.

 

Now that is the law. Social convention and business etiquette suggest that it's best to leave certain things at home for the sake of propriety. We are human beings after all. Legislation or not, certain things have the potential to turn an employer off...so why take the risk if you can avoid it (and if removing the item in question is not an issue for you).

[uniqueone]

Whether one was born in their "native land" is irrelevant to cultural expression. There are those who were born in Canada who identify with a particular culture because of ancestral ties, familial influence, etc. Then there are those who have absolutely no ties a culture despite being born and raised in their "native land". Some have assimilated in such a way that they do not feel any ties to their culture of birth (they fully adopt the cultural identity of their new home).

 

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects people from state discrimination based on religious beliefs. The Supreme Court has stated that the accuracy of one's belief or even the veracity of it is not relevant (otherwise it would be too intrusive).

 

As mentioned by TBF, a Sikh may not bring a ceremonial dagger to work because it endangers the safety of others. This conclusion was made after the court balanced the rights of the employees against the rights of the claimant.

 

In the case of a nose ring, a court would be hard pressed to find that the employer was NOT being discriminatory. Both the CCRF and other human rights legislation suggest as much.

 

Now that is the law. Social convention and business etiquette suggest that it's best to leave certain things at home for the sake of propriety. We are human beings after all. Legislation or not, certain things have the potential to turn an employer off...so why take the risk if you can avoid it (and if removing the item in question is not an issue for you).

 

 

I don't think you're really getting what i'm saying. I'm not talking about things like daggers. I'm talking adornments. You didn't specifically answer my questions.