My heart was just ripped out

[Cobra_X30]

Okay I will do that.

What consequences should there be if I intend to stay together with her?

 

BSA,

 

Only you know what consequences are appropriate. Here is the measureing stick I use.

 

1. Consequences must provide balance. IE... Any and all benefits she recieved from the affair must be completely erased. When you understand the heart of a cheater you will know why this is a requirement.

 

2. It must provide you with what you need to heal.

 

3. I must allow you not only to respect yourself, but also for her to re-establish respect for you. You dont cheat on someone you respect. Different people respect different things. Some women only respect power and strength, some respect passion and devotion... ect.

 

4. It must assist you in rebuilding trust.

 

I hear so many betrayed spouses here just talk about trust. As if this is all about trust. It's foolish to think that way, because there is so much more in play emotionally.

 

The one thing I can garuantee is that she does not know how to help you on her own. You are going to have to sit and really think about what you NEED to rebuild from this. Then you are going to have to communicate this need to her in a clear direct and diplomatic way. Do not treat this like a negotiation, these are your needs.

[Tomcat33]

This action only leads to two logical conclusions.

 

That in seeking outside validation, you will not be caught.

 

That you can do this without your SO's knowelege and that they do not deserve/need to know. Or it is done with the understanding that your SO is such a sorry sad sack, that they will not leave you, despite how you treat them.

 

Looking at it from the outside it seems that simple, but what I was getting at was that despite of processing the outcome of what happens when the affair is found out and the deep damage it causes which most people are aware of, it's nonsense that they don't realise how much damage it would cause until it happens, what people mean when they say that, is "I didn't realise you would care THIS much if you found out" because in these cases which I described previously where people commit affairs out of spite and anger and for attention, they thought their parnters would be indifferent. Or at least this is what they "imagined", then of course comes the "shock" I never knew I would cause this much pain! You just bruised your significant other's ego in the worst possible way how DID you think they would react?

That's why I have a tough time with:

 

the level of intensity of your reaction is = to the level of intensity of love you felt for me I never knew you did.

 

I have a real tough time with that. i see it more like:

 

the level of intensity of your reaction is = to the level of intesity of love the cheated partner has for themselves

 

but that's JMO

 

In the case of the one time fling or short term fling, mission accomplished, they got to prove to themselves "wow he/she did love me afterall" and so they feel that the deed payed off (in a sick twisted way they got the reaction they were craving) Too bad for the BS who is left with all the questions and a lifetime of unanswered thoughts that he/she has to learn to calm on his/her own thanks to their "cry out for attention".

 

 

Now in the case of extended affairs, it could be also out of spite and for attention but the inevitable happens the person (cheater) ends up actually falling in love or developing deep feelings for the new person. Yes they wanted the attention of their spouse and yes they got it but when the dust settles they don't know what to do with all these new feelings towards the new person.

 

cue: OW/OM forum

[blindsidedagain]

"" Now in the case of extended affairs, it could be also out of spite and for attention but the inevitable happens the person (cheater) ends up actually falling in love or developing deep feelings for the new person. Yes they wanted the attention of their spouse and yes they got it but when the dust settles they don't know what to do with all these new feelings towards the new person.""

 

Thanks, these are my sentiments.

We discussed this last night.

She said that she didn't have strong love feelings for him.

On the other hand, she said that their relationship was platonic and her feelings grew. I asked her what these feelings were and she said 'that someone was interested in me'.

The fact that I discovered the affair, makes it difficult for me to know where it was going.

As stated earlier in the string, the OM called my house, told me he loved her, they had something special together, and maybe its time for me to move on.

After I screamed and threatened him he said "sometimes 2 people meet and so on"

If this was a fling, how could he misunderstand what it was?

He is a 53 old man going thru a divorce, he is not a kid.

His wife apparently moved out a few months ago.

I suspect she was planning to leave me, but adamantly denies it.

[RecordProducer]

Not to threadjack... but I know for fact that you deserve much better than what your getting, RP. Don't jump into the arms of the first thing that shows you some attention. If I can see your value, other decent men will also... so keep your eyes open!

Thanks. I don't intend to surrender to the first person who gives me a bit of attention. I know exactly what I am looking for.

Why would you want to do that? Is he really that bad???

Did you read what I said? He is divorcing me. Could I possibly have a better reason to start looking for someone else?

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks. I don't intend to surrender to the first person who gives me a bit of attention. I know exactly what I am looking for.

 

Is that another Reboot reference?

 

Your pig avvie does not fit you in any way!

[blindsidedagain]

I live in NJ and booked a 3 day getaway to Miami, FL.

I thought sun and time away from her (for the first time since d-day), would do us both time to reflect on the last month.

Is this a good idea?

She is actually jealous that I will pick up a woman, which I think is ironic.

Anyway, flight is tomorrow morning so looking for quick advise.

[RecordProducer]

Is that another Reboot reference?

 

Your pig avvie does not fit you in any way!

What's with the Reboot teasing? Yes, I am looking to reboot my love life.

 

Pigs are intelligent. Does a cobra fit YOU?

OK, I'll change my avatar. Which animal would fit me?

[reboot]

What's with the Reboot teasing? Yes, I am looking to reboot my love life.

 

Pigs are intelligent. Does a cobra fit YOU?

OK, I'll change my avatar. Which animal would fit me?

He's trying to play cupid.

 

And I think your pig is cute.

[Cobra_X30]

He's trying to play cupid.

 

And I think your pig is cute.

 

Not so! However if I were, it seems to be working!

 

Beside that, could a woman wish for more?

 

What's with the Reboot teasing? Yes, I am looking to reboot my love life.

 

Pigs are intelligent. Does a cobra fit YOU?

OK, I'll change my avatar. Which animal would fit me?

 

Yes, Cobra is a very fitting callsign. You may be suprised how much venom I can apply with a swift strike. Plus, I am easily charmed by a music and motion combo.

 

Ok, Reboot likes the pig... so I'm not going to argue the point.

 

But... I think something mysterious and mythical may be fitting. Like a pheonix! Which I suppose has a connotation in line with something like say... a reboot.

[blindsidedagain]

Six weeks since D-day, and little progress.

We have talked, but I always initiate the discussion.

Her lack of effort is making me lean more toward a permanent split.

 

I went to Miami for a few days and returned yesterday.

I thought the sun and distance would serve me well.

It did, however she had roses sent to my room.

I was infuriated as I have not seen any roses, letters, gifts, remorse in the previous 5 weeks.

The roses were a guilt trip so I would not seek revenge on my trip, which I did not.

Since I returned yesterday, she did not utter a work about the affair.

It is so frustrating that I have to do the work.

Don't I deserve more!

[heftysmurf]

Wondering how the return went and what is on tap for today. What is your mental state right now?

[JustBreathe]

I hope you went and enjoyed it very much. Just after D-day I went to Hawaii for a week with a couple of friends. I had a great time, despite feeling so sad, laid around on the gorgeous beach, snorkeled, had some mai-tai's with the girls. Rented a car and drove along the coast. Hiked Diamond Head. Bought gifts for my boys and my mom. It was fun. I hope you did go.

 

It IS ironic that they worry about your cheating when you never cheated before. My H called me every night and asked all sort of probing questions about what I was doing. My friends would laugh their heads off when I got off the phone.

[White Flower]

And it nails my future affair. Well, my case is slighlty different in that my husband announced the divorce and he says he is moving out soon. And I don't have anyone. But I will find him. I want to have an affair really badly and I will not hide it from my husband, but I will not advertise it either.

Hi Record Producer,

Long time no see. I'm sorry to hear about your depressing day. This was something you've been anticipating for a while and although it is very painful and full of the anticipation of "what next?" I know in the end you will have that wonderful man you deserve in your life. You are so fair and unbiased and very deserving of someone of the same caliber. I wish you the very best. BTW, I did not find your earlier post angry or curt in any way. In fact, I thought it was fair and insightful. You always seem to be able to do that, even when you're "crabby".

[White Flower]

Yes, you do have much bigger problems!

 

So, tell me... what do you plan to do? Are you going to sit around wishing and hoping that your wife cared enough to show remorse?

 

Look, if there are no consequences she wont show remorse, because she wont have remorse! Not the kind your looking for anyway! I'm sorry but thats the way most women are.

 

So, maybe we should move the topic of discussion to ways you can make her care! You may feel adrift and powerless right now... but perhaps its time to take back control.

To be quite frank, isn't this what is usually said about men? (Not that that is correct either). Aren't you holding all women up to the only examples you know? And you cannot "make someone care". You tell them what you need and if they care they give it to you. Same goal but different approach.

 

I do agree that the marriage needs a measure of control, but it must be shared equally. If she feels he is "the boss" and has all of the control they will end up right where they are now. That was my problem. I admit that I can see now that I allowed him to control me, but nevertheless he was very controlling and that's one of the things that drove me away. I felt powerless in the M and powerful outside of it. Not looking to get justified here, just commenting on the frame of mind at the time when power and control was unbalanced.

[White Flower]

BSA,

 

Only you know what consequences are appropriate. Here is the measureing stick I use.

 

1. Consequences must provide balance. IE... Any and all benefits she recieved from the affair must be completely erased. When you understand the heart of a cheater you will know why this is a requirement.

 

2. It must provide you with what you need to heal.

 

3. I must allow you not only to respect yourself, but also for her to re-establish respect for you. You dont cheat on someone you respect. Different people respect different things. Some women only respect power and strength, some respect passion and devotion... ect.

 

4. It must assist you in rebuilding trust.

 

I hear so many betrayed spouses here just talk about trust. As if this is all about trust. It's foolish to think that way, because there is so much more in play emotionally.

 

The one thing I can garuantee is that she does not know how to help you on her own. You are going to have to sit and really think about what you NEED to rebuild from this. Then you are going to have to communicate this need to her in a clear direct and diplomatic way. Do not treat this like a negotiation, these are your needs.

I'd just like to say that I like your measuring stick for the most part. I have a feeling you think I'm out to knock you down sometimes, but I'm not so I'm showing you some support here.

 

Number 1 is a little confusing, though. I like how you say consequences must provide balance and I hope you mean balance in the marriage. It got confusing when you said, "any and all benefits she received from the affair must be completely erased. When you understand the heart of a cheater you will understand the need for this requirement." I guess I'm confused because not all hearts of cheaters are the same. I happen to be remorseful all on my own without having anyone demand it from me. And what is a benefit of an affair exactly? The respectful words, the gentle spirit, the thoughtful phone calls? I'm not being facetious but truly want to understand this.

 

I'm not sure my sitch will benefit BSA or not, but I hope so. It is true, Cobra, when you say you don't cheat on someone you respect. I had lost all manner of respect for my H. He's a lot like RC's H. Right down to the wierd brother-worshipping. But if BSA's wife just had a ONS or even a short-term fling then we are on quite a different path and I think this Measuring Stick ;)for the most part will work for her. If we are on similar paths, I'd say go for the couples counseling.

[White Flower]

Yes, the last year was difficult.

 

Her father had a stroke.

Her brother is an alcoholic and would not leave the house which needed to be sold so the father could be put in a home.

After the brother was arrested, he went to a rehab and has been there since.

She estranged herself from the rest of her family due to these issues.

My father moved into our house and I wasn't getting along with him which led to my depression among other things.

My aunt died and she left my grandparents money to someone outside of my family which led to issues.

My company is for sale and so there was that pressure.

The dog got sick for about a month.

Plus the normal stuff.

You are correct in that we did not agree on the baby issue, but I communicated this clearly to her.

It's not that I did not want a baby, I could not imagine it in our relationship due to too many reasons to explain here.

She had the option to leave if a baby was the priority.

I get your point, but there was a lot of things going on for both of us.

I was not feeling good either and did not seek out comfort elsewhere.

The opportunity was there and I declined.

OMG! Somehow I missed this post! You could be talking about us here.

 

I took care of two family members who were cancer patients; one of which died (H threatened to miss to my own father's funeral), raised my kids alone for the many years we had a business because he was always there from morning to midnight every day; went through the stress of listing and selling that biz; constant bailing out of his family member's troubles; animals dying, house falling apart and all the while I kept it together he who is just like RC's H found it fine and dandy to have an EA while I cried at home or at our business because I was never doing enough. I found my needs met elsewhere and yes, a part of that was vengeful. I'm not proud of it, though.

 

If your wife went through half of what I did I can say I understand, but if you were honestly there for her I can understand the anger and frustration you feel. I literally had no husband to turn to in all of this. He did not even hold me once while my father was dying. I'll never get over that.

[Cobra_X30]

I admit that I can see now that I allowed him to control me, but nevertheless he was very controlling and that's one of the things that drove me away. I felt powerless in the M and powerful outside of it. Not looking to get justified here, just commenting on the frame of mind at the time when power and control was unbalanced.

 

Yup, I would say the same of men! However in this circumstance I say women... for the sole reason that we are talking about a woman.

 

Now, there is a difference between taking back HIS control... and creating a parent/child relationship with her. I see that happen all to often in relationships anyway.

 

There is a strong difference between him controlling her... and him controlling himself, and a part of that is dictating what needs to be done for her to remain in his life.

 

Number 1 is a little confusing, though. I like how you say consequences must provide balance and I hope you mean balance in the marriage. It got confusing when you said, "any and all benefits she received from the affair must be completely erased. When you understand the heart of a cheater you will understand the need for this requirement." I guess I'm confused because not all hearts of cheaters are the same. I happen to be remorseful all on my own without having anyone demand it from me. And what is a benefit of an affair exactly? The respectful words, the gentle spirit, the thoughtful phone calls? I'm not being facetious but truly want to understand this.

 

I'm not sure my sitch will benefit BSA or not, but I hope so. It is true, Cobra, when you say you don't cheat on someone you respect. I had lost all manner of respect for my H. He's a lot like RC's H. Right down to the wierd brother-worshipping. But if BSA's wife just had a ONS or even a short-term fling then we are on quite a different path and I think this Measuring Stick ;)for the most part will work for her. If we are on similar paths, I'd say go for the couples counseling.

 

Actually, thank you for requesting a clarification. I think BSA will be back some day... so this may be helpful.

 

Balance, this is a difficult one to explain because it means different things to different poeple. Some guys want to be able to trust again... some guys want things to feel fair... ect. He needs to persue whatever will bring balance... and yes it is balance to the marriage.

 

Now about the benefits nullification part. If we walk out of an affair, with the belief that it made our situation better... ie... forced your husband to work on the marriage... provided comfort... whatever those benefits may be. It chips away at our ability to rebuild ourselves. It makes true remorse and repentance impossible. It ruins our ability to connect to our BS. It also makes us more susceptable to this same temptation in the future.

 

WF, I appreciate your points and point of view... even when it disagree's with my own. We come from very different sides of the pond! I'm not like you, and I'm not like Reboot.

 

BTW... Your H is a true gem! Your strong to have gone as far as you have.

[White Flower]

Yup, I would say the same of men! However in this circumstance I say women... for the sole reason that we are talking about a woman.

 

Now, there is a difference between taking back HIS control... and creating a parent/child relationship with her. I see that happen all to often in relationships anyway.

 

There is a strong difference between him controlling her... and him controlling himself, and a part of that is dictating what needs to be done for her to remain in his life.

 

 

 

Actually, thank you for requesting a clarification. I think BSA will be back some day... so this may be helpful.

 

Balance, this is a difficult one to explain because it means different things to different poeple. Some guys want to be able to trust again... some guys want things to feel fair... ect. He needs to persue whatever will bring balance... and yes it is balance to the marriage.

 

Now about the benefits nullification part. If we walk out of an affair, with the belief that it made our situation better... ie... forced your husband to work on the marriage... provided comfort... whatever those benefits may be. It chips away at our ability to rebuild ourselves. It makes true remorse and repentance impossible. It ruins our ability to connect to our BS. It also makes us more susceptable to this same temptation in the future.

 

WF, I appreciate your points and point of view... even when it disagree's with my own. We come from very different sides of the pond! I'm not like you, and I'm not like Reboot.

 

BTW... Your H is a true gem! Your strong to have gone as far as you have.

Thanks for clarifying all that. You do have some great ideas and I suppose when stated in short sentences I was left thinking it was too cut and dry.

 

You talk about remorse and repentance and I feel in my case I have gone through this phase because I allowed myself to get hurt (not neccessarily by MM but by the whole process), yet I don't feel remorse and repentance toward my H. I suppose that is because I really feel he deserved it. I agree, too, that with true R and R we won't fall to that temptation again. I know I won't. Never did like rollercoasters much. At this point I still wonder if I should tell H about the A at all. I don't see us growing old together, but I do see us finishing raising the kids together. I'm preparing myself for a lashing from you now, but your opinion is honored.

 

Reboot and I both want to adopt you:)

[White Flower]

BTW... Your H is a true gem! Your strong to have gone as far as you have.

Thanks, that means a lot.

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks for clarifying all that. You do have some great ideas and I suppose when stated in short sentences I was left thinking it was too cut and dry.

 

You talk about remorse and repentance and I feel in my case I have gone through this phase because I allowed myself to get hurt (not neccessarily by MM but by the whole process), yet I don't feel remorse and repentance toward my H. I suppose that is because I really feel he deserved it. I agree, too, that with true R and R we won't fall to that temptation again. I know I won't. Never did like rollercoasters much. At this point I still wonder if I should tell H about the A at all. I don't see us growing old together, but I do see us finishing raising the kids together. I'm preparing myself for a lashing from you now, but your opinion is honored.

 

Reboot and I both want to adopt you:)

 

I will always go for short and sweet first. It allows me to be more powerful.... sometimes slightly poetic.

 

You feel your H deserved it... that in a way prevents true remorse. However, I do not think you need the type of remorse at this time which BSA requires.

 

Ah, You tapped a weakspot within me! I've always wished my father stuck it out until my sister and I left for college.

 

LOL... adoption? I learned long ago that having a mother is really not a requirement, just a benefit.

[blindsidedagain]

Yesterday, I had extreme anger.

I feel as though I will never be able to get over it, and that a split is inevitable.

Her original claim was that she just wanted someone to talk to and that they were just friends.

I never bought that because of the following reasons.

Why would a woman seek friendship of a male coworker that is 15 years older.

Once he offered his phone number, Wouldn't most woman know what a man who is going thru a divorce would be seeking?

Our phone records indicate that she was doing all of the calling from the beginning. If I were single, and I gave my phone number to a female coworker 15 years my junior, I would know she was interested after the 1st phone call.

Also, once this apparent friendship started turning into more, wouldn't she have backed off.

Having sex with someone is a good way to spoil a friendship.

She admitted yesterday that she was the pursuer of the affair.

This makes it more difficult (or impossible) for me to forgive.

I don't think I want this, but I am still angry and confused.

[cj1988]

Hello WF, how are you? You say you do not feel remorse towards your H because he deserved it, why do you think he deserved it, because he cheated on you? Sorry, you sound like my H acts towards me and if he does not feel remorse or guilt, I will leave him NOW. I want to believe he does feel bad for what he has done......although he still thinks I cheated when we were APART, not living together or married 6 years ago.

 

You may have just opened my eyes to WHY he is still distant and cold. Maybe he has justified whatever he has done in his f----- head !

[blindsidedagain]

Why are you not helping me and responding to each other?

I am in despair.

[heftysmurf]

This is the hardest thing you will experience in your life. I struggle every minute. We must remain strong somehow.

[jmargel]

Why are you not helping me and responding to each other?

I am in despair.

 

Granted I have not read all of your posts but unfortunetly we don't have a magic wand to wave and make this all disappear. I would imagine you two are in marriage counseling? If not, please find a licensed one today. That doesn't mean you have to stay with her, it allows you to view the problem at a different angle, one which you will be able to eventually find closure with.

 

I look at a relationship as a house, the trust, honesty and love is the foundation of the house and when that cracks the whole thing comes crashing down. The trust and honesty is gone, however the only thing that is keeping this house still up is the love. You can rebuild but it takes ALOT of work on both ends. Alot of work on your end in the part that you need a way to understand all of this and eventually forgive, along with finding out the real reason why this happened. For her, there are a ton of issues within' herself and the marriage she needs to work at and also showing you that it was a mistake, one that should have never happened.

 

Did she love this guy? Doubt it, it's more of a 'caught up in the moment' type of thing, he told her what she wanted to hear. Us men know the motives of guys like those. But honestly that guy owes you nothing. He doesn't know you, he has nothing to lose by pursuing her. However it was completely upto your wife to decide to goto the next step. She got that 'rush' and kept being fed by his words. When you get that 'high' it's like a drug addict. You don't realize how bad things are until everything comes crashing down around you.

 

I would look up the 5 stages of grief, it's something you are going through. It will give you an idea on what to expect. There is no timeline where you have to make a decision on what to do, and there is no just 'one talk'. However don't ask for details that you know you can't handle.

 

Make sure you are taking care of yourself and like I said before I would definetly get a marriage counselor.