Woggle Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So Wog, just as an insight into your feelings on this subject, what do you estimate are the odds that you'd win that bet? Say as a percentage from 0 to 100% confidence that you'd win... 80%. I know women and I know when they want out. She wants out. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Curmudgeon - I feel like I must be different from the stereotype of a guy, because although I do definitely feel the 'fix-it' instinct, my attitude is to use any and every tool available to do something efficiently. As a result, contrary to the 'guy stereotype', I will stop and ask for directions pretty quickly once I think I might need help. And I see counseling that way too, as a useful tool for getting something important done. So in my book, you haven't lost any "guy credentials." I think, contraty to what it may seem like, that it's more a sign of self-confidence that you could reach out and find the right tool to help in a place where you needed it. Good going... Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 80%. I know women and I know when they want out. She wants out. I'm actually a little surprised that you would yield the 20%, Woggle; there may still be hope for you, but we seem to hear that a lot around here... Kinda sounds a little patronizing after a while, I guess. However, just like I harped on you when you were panicking a few days ago, telling you that you were generalizing about "all women" when you needed to focus - in that case - on your individual relationship with your wife, in this case even if you think you "know women" (which itself is open for debate), you don't know these individuals, this man and this woman. To twist your own signature: In your heart, you know you're wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Eh....... if I wanted out I certainly would not waste time with MC.. what the hell is the point of that. Why the hell would I care about softening the blow.... "don't let the door hit you in the ass" is about as soft as one really needs it. Link to post Share on other sites
luvstarved Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I do believe in counseling whenever people agree that it would help, and often when they don't. I do think that failed attempts at counseling can conclude with divorce. I do not believe that most people go into counseling planning to divorce - fearing, perhaps, or feeling pessimistic, but I do not think it is generally a "secret message" from one spouse to the other to "prepare for the worst". However, there is a high failure rate for marriage counseling. So, Curmudgeon, I applaud you and your wife's plan to proactively caretake your marriage. I would add to the recommendation though that people try to do a little better than to pick a name out of yellow pages when choosing a counselor. I am not sure there are so many bad counselors out there, but it sounds like there might be a lot of bad "fits" for couples. In ten years, we have gone through counseling 3 times (average 8 sessions). The first two times we just got who we got more or less, but the last time we went online, found additional information, picked someone with specialty and a compatible "philosophical bent", and it seems to be working MUCH better than before. So, if you can do a little shopping, all the better, I think. And...I thinka marriage retreat can be a great refresher for any marriage. Just carving out the time to concentrate on each other can be hard to come by... I think you're doing the smart thing, Curmudgeon! Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Eh....... if I wanted out I certainly would not waste time with MC.. what the hell is the point of that. Why the hell would I care about softening the blow.... "don't let the door hit you in the ass" is about as soft as one really needs it. Because she is in that slipping away stage. Pretty soon his wife will be that walkaway stage and he will be blindsided. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Because she is in that slipping away stage. Pretty soon his wife will be that walkaway stage and he will be blindsided. No they don't always follow that pattern. Like me....... First sign of unhappiness I clam up, act like everything is peachy...... all the time building my exit plan. You never know when the woman can just disappear. That's how they are, not all of them go out screaming and kicking, some quietly work there way out and POOF they are gone - and they take all YOUR stuff with them. Best watch it Wog, you could be next.... odds are you will be..... older women are more likely to be set in their own ways, and wise enough not to bother with "kickin' and screamin' ". I mean come on do you tell a person you plan on breaking into their house and taking all their crap....... hell no. Not if you are wiser and smarter. You just go in and go out. I bet money that Woggles marriage doesnt last another 2 years..... 80% chance of it..........:lmao: I am just waiting for this house to be paid off....... so I get my half.....then POOF I am outta here. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I agree with you and that is why women can never fully be trusted. I would not be suprised if my wife walked but I hoping she doesn't. If she does no big deal though. I am starting to think it is impossible for a man to make a woman happy. Link to post Share on other sites
luvstarved Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I agree with you and that is why women can never fully be trusted. I would not be suprised if my wife walked but I hoping she doesn't. If she does no big deal though. I am starting to think it is impossible for a man to make a woman happy. If it is no big deal why do you obsess over it? And you are right, it IS impossible the way you are approaching it. I think over time you will let your guard down and show your misogynist more and more, and ultimately she will be horrified to learn that she married a man who could NEVER trust her and NEVER respect her. Then you will blame her for being like all the rest, correct? Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I agree with you and that is why women can never fully be trusted. I would not be suprised if my wife walked but I hoping she doesn't. If she does no big deal though. I am starting to think it is impossible for a man to make a woman happy. Nope there is no way for a man to make a woman happy..... trust me it cannot be done. Dude you are wasting your time being tied down, you could be out having fun and building your own empire without worry that "queen" was going to stab you the first time you turn your back. That is why women want kids too, see they want "new things" in their life, they need new people to fulfill their needs - so some stick around because they make babies and are fulfilled by that..... so even thought the M may suck donkey balls, it will still last because she has "new people" to fulfill her needs and wants........ something a H cannot continue to do. You either have to divorce her soon or knock her up a couple of times.... that is the only thing that will make her happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 If it is no big deal why do you obsess over it? And you are right, it IS impossible the way you are approaching it. I think over time you will let your guard down and show your misogynist more and more, and ultimately she will be horrified to learn that she married a man who could NEVER trust her and NEVER respect her. Then you will blame her for being like all the rest, correct? I do respect her but how can a man trust a woman when women have a history of just walking in the blink of an eye. A married man lives in a state of constant fear that his marriage will end and sometimes I wonder if it is worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
luvstarved Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I do respect her but how can a man trust a woman when women have a history of just walking in the blink of an eye. A married man lives in a state of constant fear that his marriage will end and sometimes I wonder if it is worth it. Well only you can answer whether it is worth it but I do not see how you have cornered the market or justified mistrust. People of both genders walk out and are hurt. You cannot actually trust anybody 100%. You get as close as you can get and then you take a leap of faith. That is all anyone can do, and if anyone says they trust someone 100% then they are a fool or a liar or both. But you work on it and try and "fake it til you make it" if you must. In the absence of any objective reason to mistrust, you gotta cross your fingers, hold your nose and hope for the best. If you do all this and are still left or abused, then it is not your fault. You cannot control other people. But you CAN control yourself. Work your side of it, Woggle. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Well only you can answer whether it is worth it but I do not see how you have cornered the market or justified mistrust. People of both genders walk out and are hurt. You cannot actually trust anybody 100%. You get as close as you can get and then you take a leap of faith. That is all anyone can do, and if anyone says they trust someone 100% then they are a fool or a liar or both. But you work on it and try and "fake it til you make it" if you must. In the absence of any objective reason to mistrust, you gotta cross your fingers, hold your nose and hope for the best. If you do all this and are still left or abused, then it is not your fault. You cannot control other people. But you CAN control yourself. Work your side of it, Woggle. I guess you are right and her parents have a genuinely happy marriage so that is a good sign. She comes from a good family. It almost makes me want to move to Sab Fran to be closer to my in laws. If only it weren't so damn expensive to live there. Back to the topic I just have a bad feeling about the OP's marriage. He also mentioned that she was a feminist from the 70s which already means that she has a negative view of men and marriage so this is not looking good. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Woggle, I think the irony here is that you are the one with one foot out the door all the time. It sounds an awful lot like you're always looking for excuses to leave, and I'm starting to think that maybe that's the ultimate plan...project your fears onto your wife so that, when you finally decide to walk (without much warning to her, I suspect) you will feel justified in doing it. Meanwhile, she'll be left high and dry and confused. Basically, it's like you're setting things up to become what you most fear. Do you even hear yourself doing that? I want things to work out for you, but honestly, your wife shouldn't have to live with this day-in, day-out uncertainty from you; it's like you're going to go at any moment. No one should have to live like that. That's why it's just so unbelievable when you talk about what "women" do, or how you "know women." No, you don't. You know yourself, and what you'd do, and you're projecting it outward so that you don't have to deal with it internally. And I'm starting to think you're going to do it someday - just leave - and she'll be left behind, confused and hurt. And you'll blame her for it, too. It's sad. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I guess you are right and her parents have a genuinely happy marriage so that is a good sign. She comes from a good family. It almost makes me want to move to Sab Fran to be closer to my in laws. If only it weren't so damn expensive to live there. Back to the topic I just have a bad feeling about the OP's marriage. He also mentioned that she was a feminist from the 70s which already means that she has a negative view of men and marriage so this is not looking good.[/QUOTE] :lmao::lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
IpAncA Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Back to the topic I just have a bad feeling about the OP's marriage. He also mentioned that she was a feminist from the 70s which already means that she has a negative view of men and marriage so this is not looking good. What about you? Your not exactly working on all thrusters. You seem to have a bad negative view on women and marriage. I see nothing wrong with going. If she's going to leave, there's no point in trying to work things out. Makes no sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Woggle, I think the irony here is that you are the one with one foot out the door all the time. It sounds an awful lot like you're always looking for excuses to leave, and I'm starting to think that maybe that's the ultimate plan...project your fears onto your wife so that, when you finally decide to walk (without much warning to her, I suspect) you will feel justified in doing it. Meanwhile, she'll be left high and dry and confused. Basically, it's like you're setting things up to become what you most fear. Do you even hear yourself doing that? I want things to work out for you, but honestly, your wife shouldn't have to live with this day-in, day-out uncertainty from you; it's like you're going to go at any moment. No one should have to live like that. That's why it's just so unbelievable when you talk about what "women" do, or how you "know women." No, you don't. You know yourself, and what you'd do, and you're projecting it outward so that you don't have to deal with it internally. And I'm starting to think you're going to do it someday - just leave - and she'll be left behind, confused and hurt. And you'll blame her for it, too. It's sad. See Serial Muse, Woggle has hidden this from his wife - she has no clue with exception of the drama with his ex and couple of hints about his views on man haters. She has no clue about the depth of his problems. He decieved her from the start, so of course he probably is also worried she will dump him if she ever knew how deep these problems really are. His whole life is wrapped in fear and a warped need to blame all the ill's of the world on women. Very sad...... more sad for his wife, she is living with a man who she truly does not know. If he had any MAN BALLS he would want her to know who he really is......take it or leave it - see in a way, she has him by the balls..... he cannot even admit who he really is and how he really feels about women to her....... afraid of her. Of course this is his own doing, not hers. Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 See Serial Muse, Woggle has hidden this from his wife - she has no clue with exception of the drama with his ex and couple of hints about his views on man haters. She has no clue about the depth of his problems. He decieved her from the start, so of course he probably is also worried she will dump him if she ever knew how deep these problems really are. His whole life is wrapped in fear and a warped need to blame all the ill's of the world on women. Very sad...... more sad for his wife, she is living with a man who she truly does not know. If he had any MAN BALLS he would want her to know who he really is......take it or leave it - see in a way, she has him by the balls..... he cannot even admit who he really is and how he really feels about women to her....... afraid of her. Of course this is his own doing, not hers. *Riddler bows down to a4a.* Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 *Riddler bows down to a4a.* Hey since you're down there, on your way up could you........................ Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Hey since you're down there, on your way up could you........................ Only if you promise not to poke me with a fork. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 I do respect her but how can a man trust a woman when women have a history of just walking in the blink of an eye. Are you serious? Do you feel this way about black people? Afew black people are into crime, so does that make ALL BLACK people criminals? Some white men are a-holes, players, abusers, murderers, rapists...Does that mean ALL WHITE MEN are a-holes, players, abusers, murderers, rapists??? Wog, the more you focus on women that are bad, the less you're going to trust your own wife. Even right now you're having doubts and mistrusting her for SOMETHING SHE HAS NOT DONE and more than likely WILL NEVER DO. Stop watching what women do around you and FOCUS ONLY on the one you're married to. Your wife! Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 he has no clue about the depth of his problems. If things are going to end their marriage, it won't be because of his wife doing something wrong or deceitful. It will be because Wog pushes her away and she gets hurt over and over again until she can't take the pain of him not being able to love and trust her. Wog, you better figure this out and deal with the pain that your mom inflicted on you growing up and the pain your crazy ex-wife inflicted on you too. If you can't get past all this, you WILL have problems with your wife. Problem is, she won't know there are problems until it's too late. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 ... and now, we take you back to Curmudgeon's regularly scheduled thread, already in progress... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Curmudgeon Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 Thank you! That's the way I feel too. My wife and I are in this marriage for the long-haul and any tool that will keep it running smoothly, or even make it better, is not to be discounted. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Curmudgeon Posted May 24, 2007 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 And...I think a marriage retreat can be a great refresher for any marriage. Just carving out the time to concentrate on each other can be hard to come by... We've gone on a married couples retreat at a beautiful Catholic (my faith) retreat center nearby about evey other year. We went last year and we'll go again this summer. Each retreat has had a different Retreat Master and each retreat has had a different concentration and theme. We've always enjoyed and benefitted from them. We're also attending our counseling at the retreat center which offers it on a sliding scale (we pay the maximum) that is still significantly less than most counseling and has a spiritual element we both find comfortable and comforting Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts