Losing your Job over your internet post?

[Trialbyfire]

Making your profile private doesn't guarantee privacy if you have coworkers as friends. You'd be surprised at how many people have been ratted out for silly reasons.

[Zona76]

In some part I disagree with the original poster.

They cannot use your posts on external blogs and webs against your work.

Where I am they hold the option to be able to visit your webs(when you use office computers) Basic rule is visiting porn sites will get you fired no questions asked.

Once when reading my personal email someone sent me a nude photo. I had a minor panic attack and shut it down fast. MANY long term employees are fired for visiting websites they shouldn't. We even have to sign a paper that we acknowledge their right to do this.

BUT what you do on your home computer is your privilege.

[Topper]

thats why we don't use our real names on LS

 

TOPPER, you'd be unemployed for life if they saw some of the smack you wrote here

 

Me write smack? I'm Innocent it was that other Topper, I tell Ya! It wasn't me!

[Topper]

Making your profile private doesn't guarantee privacy if you have coworkers as friends. You'd be surprised at how many people have been ratted out for silly reasons.

 

If you and a coworker were up for the same position. You might not get that promotion because of Something you had on my space.

[riobikini]

Proving it was actually *you* online would be wrought with "ifs" and "buts", even with all the so-called "confirmation" that it was, in fact, you online.

 

Everything would wind up in dispute: your photo (someone else could have posted it), your email (someone could have stolen your password), your real-life identity (identity theft), etc., etc.

 

I don't think any smart, savvy employer (who wants to stay out of legal trouble) would ever dream of making it known as to *why* he did -or didn't- hire a person based on what he (thought) he found out about them online in MySpace, or other similar sites.

 

The internet still manages to hold its own when it comes to masking true identity -there are just so many ways to dispute, avoid, or completely anull certain "knowledge".

 

Good or bad.

 

-Rio

[Trialbyfire]

If you and a coworker were up for the same position. You might not get that promotion because of Something you had on my space.

 

I don't think any smart, savvy employer (who wants to stay out of legal trouble) would ever dream of making it known as to *why* he did -or didn't- hire a person based on what he (thought) he found out about them online in MySpace, or other similar sites.

 

Exactly, to both of these comments.

 

Complete anonymity is up to you, if it matters that much. Overall, don't do anything stupid and you won't need to be concerned.

 

I have my picture on LS. I don't care anymore who sees what I've posted because there's nothing that I'm concerned or ashamed about. As far as I'm concerned, if a prospective client doesn't like what I've posted, they are welcome to go find another consultant, which they will.

[amerikajin]

You are always well-advised to minimize your online footprint - for obvious reasons.

 

However, legally, if an employer fires you, in just about every jurisdiction and in most companies, they have to have a valid reason for termination; otherwise, you may be able to recover wrongful termination tort damages.

 

A company can sue you if you have posted something that is injurious to their business. For example, if you rant about working at XYZ company and divulge dirty little secrets about the company, and then others could reasonably read your site and walk away with a negative impression of the company, they can definitely fire you - on the spot. If you're just telling people that you would like to walk around topless on the French Riviera one summer or that you like to go out and drink a lot on the weekend, and they terminate you merely because they happened to find you online and it offends their religious sensitivites...that's questionable, and you would probably have a right to sue. Employers have a legal right to defend their business; they do not have a legal right to tell you what to do with your private life (unless you're a high profile member of the company).

 

But, as I say, the best way to avoid any kind of controversy is to keep a low profile. Because while they don't have a right to fire you merely for having a private life, proving that this was the reason they fired you (and nothing else) is a whole different matter entirely.

[Herzen]

In the United States, where at-will employment exists, an employer would be entitled to fire an employee who, for example, uses the Net for non-work purposes during business hours. Whether it's browsing porn sites, buying on Ebay or posting here, employers may fire offending employees so long as there's no disparate treatment.

 

A recent case in New Jersey gives employers even more incentive to fire private browsing employees. There, an employer was required to go to trial on a negligence claim brought by a mother and her young daughter. The step-dad employee had photographed his step-daughter, and uploaded nude pictures of the girl at work.

 

Here's a summary:

 

 

In Doe v. XYC, Jane Doe sued XYC Corporation on behalf of her daughter, Jill. XYC Corporation employed Jane's husband and Jill's stepfather (referred to in the opinion as the "Employee"). The Employee "had been secretly videotaping and photographing Jill at their home in nude and semi-nude positions. Jill was ten years old at the time." The Employee "transmitted three of the clandestinely-taken photos of Jill Doe over the Internet from his workplace computer to a child pron site in order to gain access to the site. Employee later acknowledged that he stored child pornograpahy, including nude photos of Jill Doe, in his workplace computer."

The court held that XYC Corporation could be liable:

We hold that an employer who is on notice that one of its employees is using a workplace computer to access pornography, possibly child pornography, has a duty to investigate the employee's activities and to take prompt and effective action to stop the unauthorized activity, lest it result in harm to innocent third parties. No privacy interest of the employee stands in the way of this duty on the part of the employer.

 

The moral: prospective employers, like respective lovers, will use the Net to learn as much as they can about a candidate. Knowledge is not only power, it's absolutely necessary.

 

 

[Art_Critic]

Employment at will is a legal concept referred to as the Doctrine of Employment at Will. It essentially means that, in the absence of employment contracts that indicate otherwise, employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons, as long as they are not illegal reasons.

 

I am an employer in an at will employment state.. but I will say that if I fire someone at will I still cover all bases and lay the groundwork the weeks previous to the firing.

[amerikajin]

The original issue, as I understand it, is whether you can be fired for things like MySpace or other private web entries, on your own time and off worksite premises. Before employment, the employer is under no obligation to hire you for any reason; they are simply barred from using certain criteria to prevent you from being hired (i.e. race, gender, disability etc...)

 

However, in most cases, once you are hired and recognized as an "employee" that is a different situation altogether. Even in so-called "at will" situations, you must generally show that you had sufficient cause to terminate a worker. If I am just a regular office 9-5 employee inside some big Fortune 500 company, and some white-collared Republican reads my rantings and figures out through a number of clues that I'm the one behind Amerikajin's screen name, he may have cause to fire me; then again, he may not. He can't do it just because he doesn't like what I write.

 

If he could prove I violated a clear company policy on computer/net usage and wrote my entries during company hours and on company premises; or if he prove that what I wrote (even off company premises and made on my own computer) was potentially damaging to the company in some way, then yes, he would have cause, and he could fire my ass on the spot. No questions.

 

If it was just the mere fact that he was a personal friend of GWB and he didn't like my political rants, then as far as I know, I don't think that alone would be sufficient cause to fire me - it's unrelated to the company and my work related to it. Employers (for now anyway) are not allowed to have that kind of influence over our lives. That doesn't keep companies from trying, and as I have said previously, wrongfully terminated or not, you've got to prove you were tossed into the waste bin wrongfully -- and having been an employer myself, I can tell you that there are a lot of ways to get rid of someone legally. The real world ain't always fair: cover thy ass accordingly.

[Art_Critic]

Even in so-called "at will" situations, you must generally show that you had sufficient cause to terminate a worker.

 

..........

in at will states employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons, as long as they are not illegal reasons.

[Herzen]

There are gradations of safe net usage: work-based and work-related (most safe); work-based and nonwork-related (less safe, it all depends about policies, where and how much one browses); nonwork based and work-related (less safe as, for example, insider blogs that reveal all and defame many); and nonwork-based and nonwork related (mostly safe unless you're a high level executive whose naked picture is found on some BDSM swinging site).

 

I've found that the Net interferes more and more with my productivity. This site included--especially in the bad old days.

 

My rule of thumb: when at work browse safely and in an amount compatible with your job duties and assume that your employer knows where you've been; when at home, let it rip but don't talk about work in a public blog and never upload a naked picture of yourself on the Net.

 

Very few of us regular folk look good naked.You might lose your job along with your dignity.

[Sheba]

The facts of life, as I see them, are:

 

Anything posted on the internet is public

Anything posted on the internet that may be identified as being about you or coming from you might be found by people who know you

Your prospective employer could see it, and you won't get the job

Your current employer could see it, and look for "legit" reasons to fire you or make you want to quit

Anyplace you go on the internet while at work is rightfully your employer's business

Anyplace you go on the internet while at home is rightfully your business, but may be discovered

Anything you do in public may be recorded and posted on the internet

(return to the first fact and start over)

 

Govern yourselves accordingly

[Herzen]

The facts of life, as I see them, are:

 

Anything posted on the internet is public

Anything posted on the internet that may be identified as being about you or coming from you might be found by people who know you

Your prospective employer could see it, and you won't get the job

Your current employer could see it, and look for "legit" reasons to fire you or make you want to quit

Anyplace you go on the internet while at work is rightfully your employer's business

Anyplace you go on the internet while at home is rightfully your business, but may be discovered

Anything you do in public may be recorded and posted on the internet

(return to the first fact and start over)

 

Govern yourselves accordingly

 

Well said, Sheba. That's what I was stumbling to say.

[NotKelly]

Well, first of all, why would somebody be dumb enough to post stuff under their real name?

[Sheba]

Well said, Sheba. That's what I was stumbling to say.

 

Sometimes, Herzen, a person is just too smart or too knowledgable or too esoteric, and it takes someone like me to summarize the smart one's thoughts so that they make sense to everyone, whether they be brilliant or stupid or somewhere in between.

 

That is my aim, in any case. To be understood.

[Art_Critic]

Well, first of all, why would somebody be dumb enough to post stuff under their real name?

 

Well.. are you Kelly ?..or not ?

[Herzen]

Sometimes, Herzen, a person is just too smart or too knowledgable or too esoteric, and it takes someone like me to summarize the smart one's thoughts so that they make sense to everyone, whether they be brilliant or stupid or somewhere in between.

 

That is my aim, in any case. To be understood.

 

Well, Sheba, I share your aim. Although I occasionally try to roil the waters, too.

 

As for NotKelly's post, sometimes you don't even need to use your real name to gain unwanted attention from your employer. We represented an employer that wanted a legal opinion regarding whether it could terminate its middle-aged married, male CFO whose picture was ID'd in a Gay dating site. While not naked he was shirtless.

 

An anonymous caller notified HR of the CFO's "come hither" pic and post.

 

When it comes to acting-out on the Net, ask yourself how would your mother feel if she knew what you were doing.

[Sheba]

Herzen - so that's "WWMT?"*

 

Good test!

 

(* What would Mom think?)

[amerikajin]

in at will states employers generally may fire employees for any reasons, no reasons and even unfair reasons, as long as they are not illegal reasons.

 

I know that's the prevailing theory; in reality, it's not nearly so simple. A lot of employers have been burned for believing that "at will" is to be taken literally at face value.

[amerikajin]

The facts of life, as I see them, are:

 

Anything posted on the internet is public

Anything posted on the internet that may be identified as being about you or coming from you might be found by people who know you

Your prospective employer could see it, and you won't get the job

Your current employer could see it, and look for "legit" reasons to fire you or make you want to quit

Anyplace you go on the internet while at work is rightfully your employer's business

Anyplace you go on the internet while at home is rightfully your business, but may be discovered

Anything you do in public may be recorded and posted on the internet

(return to the first fact and start over)

 

Govern yourselves accordingly

 

This post pretty much sums it up. I boldened the part that I was trying to emphasize earlier. Like I said, even if the employer is wrong, he can find ways to be right.

[Art_Critic]

I know that's the prevailing theory; in reality, it's not nearly so simple. A lot of employers have been burned for believing that "at will" is to be taken literally at face value.

 

I'm speaking in realistic terms.. I am an employer in an at will state..

I have fired people at will before..

You only have to worry about a lawsuit if you have fired someone for an unlawful reason ie: race, sex etc etc..

All you have to say is it isn't working out..I will say though that firing someone at will without laying the ground work leaves it open for the fired person to get unemployment benefits.. if you lay the groundwork they don't.

 

This is a reality....not theory...

[Art_Critic]

There is also the probationary period in some hirings also to consider. normally 90 days. during a probationary period you may be let go for just about any easy reason within reach..

 

So even if you get that job and have that myspace page out there or other blogs with off color info on it, it doesn't mean they won't find it during the 90 day period and still let you go because of the info you posted on the Internet or in blogs etc etc..

[amerikajin]

I'm speaking in realistic terms.. I am an employer in an at will state..

I have fired people at will before..

You only have to worry about a lawsuit if you have fired someone for an unlawful reason ie: race, sex etc etc..

All you have to say is it isn't working out..I will say though that firing someone at will without laying the ground work leaves it open for the fired person to get unemployment benefits.. if you lay the groundwork they don't.

 

This is a reality....not theory...

 

I know what you're saying, Art, and to an extent I would agree. But having been an employer myself, having worked in a trade association comprised of businesses large and small, and having worked closely with insurance agents who settle these kinds of claims, I can tell you it is anything but that simple. And moreover, in most cases, most employees are either too dejected or too ignorant of potential litigation grounds to fight back; however, some employees don't go so quietly, which is exactly why any employment lawyer advises that you always need to document *why* they have been let go, that you have very clear employment policies, that you follow them from the moment of hire to the date of termination, and that you are consistent in their application.

 

Although in theory employment may be at will, most states have volumes of legislation protecting workers' rights which often take precedence over the "at will" clause. In theory, "at will" means just what it reads; in reality, "at will" means at the employer's discretion provided it doesn't conflict with the law - but the scope of that law can be a lot more than just the obvious no-no's. Most employers understand you can't discriminate or sexually harass someone; a lot of people forget little things like whistle-blower laws, creating a hostile work environment, anti-retribution laws and a host of other torts. Essentially, what "at will" really means is that there is a clear understanding between the employer and employee that the two parties are entering into a legally regulated working relationship, but one that isn't necessarily contractual with a guaranteed set of terms.

[amerikajin]

There is also the probationary period in some hirings also to consider. normally 90 days. during a probationary period you may be let go for just about any easy reason within reach..

 

So even if you get that job and have that myspace page out there or other blogs with off color info on it, it doesn't mean they won't find it during the 90 day period and still let you go because of the info you posted on the Internet or in blogs etc etc..

 

Yep.

 

As long as your employment agreement says clearly that it's a 90-day probationary period, the employee is considered a temporary worker for all practical purposes. After that, it's a different story.