Is there any hope for us? (LONG)

[El-Producto]

I will give you a quick summary of my marriage. My wife and I have been married for 5 years, but together for 9. We had a very short courtship, before having our first child unexpectedly. We stayed together, and had another child 20 months later. We married that year, and just this week my wife has asked for a trial separation.

 

I was devestated, and am having a really hard time dealing with it. She states that she has had no passion for me for the last 3 years. This is true, she hasn't initiated lovemaking in at least the past 3 years, and she only made love with me because she felt guilty. Things haven't been good for the last few years, but we got along because of the kids.

 

I have not been the best husband. I became "addicted" to video games and shirked a lot of my household duties. I have always been a good father, and she admits to that. But what I haven't been is the most helpful, or loving husband. My wife and I rarely did anything alone as a couple, and started to develop seperate interests. I gained some weight, which I know bothered her, because she is a very athletic person, who takes very good care of her body. My wife has also started her own business, and I haven't been very helpful with that regard.

 

I have begged my wife to let us try and work it out, but she is determined that the best thing be a trial separation. We are letting the kids stay at the house, and we are taking turns living at the house. I work 12 hour shifts, so when I'm at work I just stay at a friends house for the 2 or 3 days that I work, so the kids don't really see anything as different.

 

She went to a counsellor yesterday, who she said affirmed her choice to have a trial separation. We are both going to see this counsellor on WED. and are going to go from there. She seems so set on ending this, but I feel lucky that she is wanting to try counselling first.

 

Initially I was devastated, and have barely been able to function. I was totally against separation, but I realize that that is what she needs, some space. I am willing to do everything possible to win her back. She says that she really doesn't think that I can change into the person that she would feel passionate about. But I am going to change my life 360 degrees. I'm getting rid of any remnants of Video Games, and Televsion. I'm going to get back in shape, and do more than my share around the house. And most importantly become her friend again, and treat her how she deserves to be treated. She's not perfect by any means, but she is the only woman that I love.

 

Anyway.. sorry for the long post, but I really needed to vent. I am just wondering if there is any hope for us to reconcile? I am willing to do ANYTHING to reclaim our relationship, as I love her so much.

What are other's experiences with trial separation?

[Not_That_Innocent]

Hi - I definitely think there is hope for your relationship. Especially if you are willing to change. Just try to stay positive about it and show her that you can be the man that she needs you to be. If you do everything that you can to improve and she still doesn't want to be with you, chalk it up to her loss. But as long as she is willing to try and give you another chance, stay positive about it. I know it has to be tough, but hang in there!

[El-Producto]

Thank you for your response. I really need encouragement right now. It feels like she is making herself distant from me, which really scares me. I'm very happy that she is willing to go to counselling, it just scares me that she says she doesn't think her passion for me can ever return.

 

I've never felt so helpless in my life. It's only been 2 days, but feels like an eternity. I want to call her and talk so badly, but I know she needs the space.

 

I just really didn't expect the counsellor to agree with her. I thought that they tried to reconcile marriages. I'm afraid of our meeting on Wed. but I know that I need to not get angry with her, despite all of the hurtful things I know she is going to say about me.

[whichwayisup]

All you can do is try your best and show her that you're going to become a better husband, not only in words, but in actions - Hopefully she will see your efforts and try hard too.

 

You both owe to it to your children to give it your best before throwing in the towel.

[El-Producto]

I know it's best for our children, but she seems to think that it's better for the children to have happy parents who are apart, then parents who don't love each other. I just can't imagine our family being apart.

[whichwayisup]

it just scares me that she says she doesn't think her passion for me can ever return.

 

2 little kids can knock passion out of a woman. A mommy and all that comes with it. She may not feel sexy, or even feel beautiful about herself.

 

TELL her how sexy she is, how much you need her, how much you love her, how beautiful she is, how close you feel to her because she gave birth to your children. She was missing all that, and maybe her self esteem went down the toilet.

[El-Producto]

It just scares me because she said that when she thinks about other guys, she gets aroused, but when she thinks about me, she has none of those feelings. I know she doesn't mean that she fantasizes about other men, and I know she isn't cheating on me, but how do I ever get this back. I just hope that if I can change myself, and our relationship, her passion for me will come back naturally.

 

I'm reading tons of books right now, like Getting Back Together by Bettie Youngs, Divorce Busting, and the 7 Principles for Making marriage work.

[PWSX3]

The first thing you have to except is you have a part in your relationship, the second thing is what can "you" do to change what "you" are doing???

 

Then you have to ask yourself; self, do I want to change these things such as playing the video games for "me"???? You will not be able to change these things for her, if you try you will not keep to your promise.

 

Now if you want to change them for yourself because you want to better yourself then go for it, you don't have to tell her what your going to do just start doing it. If you want to lose the weight she will see it, if you want to stop playing the video games you will pick up another hobby & she will see that as well. I can only talk about my own situation but my wife watched, she watched to see if I was really going to change.

 

As for your W you are correct, if she wants a separation there isn't much you can do about it but to except it with a positive attitude. Don't call, don't cry, don't try and explain things to her because she probably doesn't want to hear it right now.

 

You asked if there is hope? Yes there is hope, but I feel both sides have to want to work on the relationship & if your W is wanting to go to counseling then I feel she isn't ready to give up, she is just getting your attention.

 

I wish you the best, the road isn't easy & you will have many feelings of ups & downs but keep reading, keep learning & then hopefully you will start seeing your marriage in a different light.

[mum2three]

PWSX3's thread. I think it will help. Hope he jumps in to give u some advice. You have hope!

[Gunny376]

Usually when a couple separates, that's just the pre-lude to the eventual divorce. Its rare that a couple gets back together once they separate ~ especially if its the woman that initaties the seperation. Why? Because usually they've already left the relationship in heart, mind and soul long ago, especially if they're are children involved in the pitcure. Still it happens often enough ~ to give hope to the majority of others.

 

There's a number of things that your post shows, the number one is that between workling 12 hour shifts, and your gaming addiction ~ you neglected your responsibilities as a husband, and you weren't meeting here needs, (emotional and others I suspect)

 

The problem with going to counseling, reading books, and changing is that to the WAW (Walk-A-Wife) its often too little too late ~ with there being too much water over the damn and under the bridge. All this new found recommitment to he marriage and her, and making all these changes can actually be a source of anger and resentment ~ Why? Why didn't you work on yourself and our marriage back X number of years ago when I was still mentally and emotionally engaged in the relationship?

 

Your best bet at the moment is to Goggle Marriagebuilders, Divorcebusting, and to continue to read about marriage, women, relationship, marriage, communication, emotional needs, etc. Now would be a good time for you to get a library card and use it.

 

With that said, you need to understand "Walk A Way Wife Syndrone" you can find it at the Divorcebusting website. In a nutshell, it comes down to "That's it! I'm going to quit"

 

The worse thing that you can do is try and reason with her, start rommancing her, sending her cards, letters, and pleading and begging with her. In her eyes it only serves to piss her off and builds the walls of resentment even higher! Give her space, while remaining cool, calm and collected. In this regards you may want to read ilmw's entire thread, he's just about gotten it down to an art form which he's mastered.

 

Next, you need to really do some soul searching here ~ and for that you might want to take a look at PWSX3's entire thread. Both of these guys have been at this for months ~ and they're both damn good examples of how to act and how not to act, what to do and what not to do. What to say and what not to say.

 

But, before you've got any chance of getting back with the wife ~ you've got to look deep down within yourself and identify your weaknesses and areas for self improvement ~ and right off the bat, you've got much to learn about being married ~ and that's not just you my friend, that's all of us. And, its a lifelong journey at that.

 

By all means get rid of the video games ~ I would suspect that's a big issue in and of itself ~ and the act of getting rid of them, (not putting them in the attic, the gararge ~ getting rid of them, might, just might give her pause for thought that you're committed to making the changes necessary to turn this thing around. And, when you sell them ~ give her the money ~ for the children.

 

Marriage counseling? That's a tricky one. Especially if you're using one that she's choose? More times than not ~ its an ambush, in that she's seeking a third party to justify and validate her decisions to leave the relationshp. If were me, I'd politely bow out ~ and tell her, "You know this whole thing has really opened my eyes, and I can see where I need to make a lot of choices in my life ~ and a lot of changes! Not just for us, but for me, myself, and I, and especially for our children. I think for now we just need to put things on hold ~ not do anything rash, and we need to explore IC." (individual counseling)

 

Meanwhile you need to come up with a Plan A and a Plan B, Google that at Marriagebuilders, and read, read, read. Hope for the best, plan for the worse.

 

Meanwhile, in your day to day I would follow:

 

This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting:

 

Quote:

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

 

2. No frequent phone calls

 

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

 

4. Do not follow him around the house

 

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

 

6. Do not ask for help from family members

 

7. Do not ask for reassurances

 

8. Do not buy gifts

 

9. Do not schedule dates together

 

10. Do not spy on spouse

 

11. Do not say "I Love You"

 

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

 

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

 

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

 

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

 

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

 

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

 

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

 

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

 

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

 

21. Never lose your cool

 

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

 

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

 

24. Be patient

 

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

 

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

 

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

 

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

 

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

 

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

 

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

 

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

 

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

 

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

I wouldn't implement this until AFTER she refuses compliance. Instead, I'd be fairly cooperative with her right up until Legal Separation. After that, I'd do 180's and let her stew a little. She'll be off balance because she's no longer in charge, and she'll be wondering if you're moving on without her.

 

180's are best done while you're still in contact. The idea is to be ATTRACTIVE, but not solitious. You're pleasant, you're charming, but you're also doing what you need to do in order to protect your family. Right now, you don't have to worry about going to NC (no contact). You're nowhere near needing that yet.

~ As posted by Lady Jane

 

I would also recommend Dr. Phil Mcgraw's books:

 

"Releationship Rescue" now available in paperback at WalMart for $6

 

and

 

"Self Matters"and its compaion workbook.

 

Another book that I would recomend is "Me? Five Years From Now" Its not a book you read, so much as it asks you questions, that you provide the answers to.

 

Another author I would recommend is Dr. Hellen Kriedmen and her "Light Her Fire" series.

 

You can Goggle all of these.

 

Check out my post, No. #35 on this thread to understand your situation better, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114655&page=3

 

Finally, quit being so freaking hard on yourself and for the love of God, quit beating yourself up. You, like I and many others here started out with 1/10th of the knowledge, experience to make it work to begin with.

 

Nothing in life prepares you for marriage ~ its all OJT (On the job training) and like I use to tell my Marines, that's one Hell of a lousy way to learn. Especially when you're hunkering being a wall, and some joker is lobbing gernades, RPG's and bullets at you!

 

Good luck and keep posting. We'll help you out the best we can ~ and you've got the cummulative equvalent of a lifetime of experience here.

 

For now ~ chill, be cool, calm, and collected, keep your wits about you.

 

Its all about perspective, attitude, and confidence.

 

Courage is keeping your wits about when you, when all others are losing there's!

 

Worse case scenario? She leaves you, you guys divorce, and you've got to get off your sorry azz and go find someone new that appreciates all the hard won work and changes you made and gained from this one dumping you!

 

P.S. Ditto what WhichWayIsUP said!

[Ladyjane14]

You've had some very good advice already on this thread. I agree that PWSX3's is a good thread for you to read. The issues are similar and the outcome seems so far to be what you're looking for.

 

I also think you should read (and re-read) Gunny's post. He covered all the bases for you.

 

But take special note of THIS part:

 

....quit being so freaking hard on yourself and for the love of God, quit beating yourself up. You, like I and many others here started out with 1/10th of the knowledge, experience to make it work to begin with.

 

Nothing in life prepares you for marriage ~ its all OJT (On the job training)...

 

Worse case scenario? She leaves you, you guys divorce, and you've got to get off your sorry azz and go find someone new that appreciates all the hard won work and changes you made and gained from this one dumping you!

 

You know, guys come in here all the time in the EXACT situation that you're in. They've not been attentive husbands, and some of them have made even worse mistakes than that.

And like you, the lightbulb has finally turned 'ON' for them and they realize that they've caused alot of harm to the marriage. They beat themselves up horribly, sometimes giving away the farm in atonement.

 

I've got some excerpts for you from Dr. Willard Harley's article, What are Plan A and Plan B, posted at his Marriagebuilders website:

 

...Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind."...

 

...In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior....

 

....the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses....

 

Actually, I would recommend that you read the entire article as well as his article on Why Women Leave Men, which will explain to you WHAT your wife is looking for in a mate. Also read the Basic Concepts section in it's entirety with special attention to LoveBusters and The Three States of Mind in Marriage.

 

My advice to you... is to take yourself on back home if you want to work on this marriage. That's your house too. Those are your kids too. And your own guilt is your wife's best tool in manipulating you into leaving. IF she's absolutely GOT to have this separation, the onus should be on HER to make other arrangements. You might have been late in bringing your A-game, but you're there now. So if she just wanted your attention... SHE ALREADY HAS IT.

 

I'll always admit to you guys that my own strategy for getting my husband out of the house and leaving me in control of the playing field would have been to gently encourage him to allow a time-out from the marriage. My plan would've been to stall him as long as I could so he'd get used to being on his own.

 

It sounds really devious... but I think it's more of a natural thing. Men are bigger and often more prone to angry response. Women, I think, are subconsciously AWARE of that. So, if we can make it a peaceful transition... we're likely to say whatever we need to say, and that INCLUDES offering hope where there is none. It's not done out of meanness or with great deliberation, but still... it's usually a step toward the larger agenda which is Divorce.

 

If you were to go home and refuse the "trial separation", you're wife will most likely put up QUITE A FUSS. She'll remind you that the counselor says it's the best thing. BUT... that's her counselor, who's looking out for HER, not for you or for your family dynamic. It's unfortunate, but not all counselors are equal, and at this point I'd have to wonder if it wouldn't be better to find a therapist who is pro-marriage, and then see him/her together.

 

Bottom-line.... MOST of the folks who come to LS, posting in this particular section, are going to get a divorce. That's just the way it is. PW's situation is RARE when you compare it to all these other threads. More often than not, people posting here are becoming accustomed to something that's already a foregone conclusion.

 

I'm thinking that if you agree to this separation, it will more than likely end up that way for you too. But if you can stay in the home as an integral part of the family dynamic, and SHOW your positive changes... you might have a better chance.

 

Now, you're not a cheater, or a drunk, or a wife-beater. You're just a guy who wasn't as attentive as he could have been. You shouldn't lose your family for something like that which can be so EASILY rectified. It' NOT a "fatal flaw". Be your own friend, man.... 'cause you need one.

Ease up on the guilt, and adopt a positive strategy instead.

[El-Producto]

Wow, first of all I'd like to thank everyone who replied so far. Your advice, although not always what I wanted to hear, is very helpful.

 

Last night was a really good night for ME. I read the book GETTING BACK TOGETHER (How to Reconcile with Your Partner-and Make it Last) by Dr. Bettie Youngs. It is.. I have to say life changing. It described everything I'm going through in exact detail. It's almost like the book was written for me. I know have a TOTALLY new outlook on what is happening to me. I need to look out for me first of all. My crying and grovelling(sp?) to my wife was totally counter-productive. I need to be strong, and start changing myself. After all, it's me and my problems, that have caused my wife to lose her passion for me. I know she respects me as a father, and would never do anything to split up our family if it wasn't really hurting her inside. I realise now that I should have done this a long time ago, and maybe I could have saved the marriage. But whats done is done, and it's time to move on.

 

I'm not really worried about the marriage counsellor that she selected. I know for a fact that it was random from the phone book. I'm looking forward to going, even though I know I'm gonna hear a lot of stuff that's going to hurt.

 

The biggest thing that worries/bothers me, is that she is taking a lot of advice from her mother, who I KNOW is egging her on to get a divorce. Her mother has never liked me, and has had 3 husbands herself, all of which lasted very short periods.

 

Anyway.. thank you all for your support, and I'm going to keep posting. Today is like the first day of my new life. I've haven't had this much energy in a LONG time. I got up and ran on my parents treadmill for an hour, felt great. I hadn't eaten in the last 2 days, so I know I have to take care of myself.

 

I'm going to sell every bit of videogaming stuff I have. I don't like what I've become as a result of the addiction, and I know it's an addiction as silly as it sounds. It was a way for me to escape from the problems that were happening at home. In fact I'm going to take the proceeds and buy some laminate flooring to install in the bedrooms, like we've been wanting to do for a long time.

 

IMWL's thread has been very helpful for me.

 

Thanks again.

[PWSX3]

I would also recommend Dr. Phil Mcgraw's books:

 

"Releationship Rescue" now available in paperback at WalMart for $6

Gunny you must know the right people, because my W bought the book for me last week & paid $11.00 I think she said. Just didn't want someone to be surprised when they picked it up.

[PWSX3]

Wow, first of all I'd like to thank everyone who replied so far. Your advice, although not always what I wanted to hear, is very helpful.

 

Last night was a really good night for ME. I read the book GETTING BACK TOGETHER (How to Reconcile with Your Partner-and Make it Last) by Dr. Bettie Youngs. It is.. I have to say life changing. It described everything I'm going through in exact detail. It's almost like the book was written for me. I know have a TOTALLY new outlook on what is happening to me. I need to look out for me first of all. My crying and grovelling(sp?) to my wife was totally counter-productive. I need to be strong, and start changing myself. After all, it's me and my problems, that have caused my wife to lose her passion for me. I know she respects me as a father, and would never do anything to split up our family if it wasn't really hurting her inside. I realise now that I should have done this a long time ago, and maybe I could have saved the marriage. But whats done is done, and it's time to move on.

 

I'm not really worried about the marriage counsellor that she selected. I know for a fact that it was random from the phone book. I'm looking forward to going, even though I know I'm gonna hear a lot of stuff that's going to hurt.

 

The biggest thing that worries/bothers me, is that she is taking a lot of advice from her mother, who I KNOW is egging her on to get a divorce. Her mother has never liked me, and has had 3 husbands herself, all of which lasted very short periods.

 

Anyway.. thank you all for your support, and I'm going to keep posting. Today is like the first day of my new life. I've haven't had this much energy in a LONG time. I got up and ran on my parents treadmill for an hour, felt great. I hadn't eaten in the last 2 days, so I know I have to take care of myself.

 

I'm going to sell every bit of videogaming stuff I have. I don't like what I've become as a result of the addiction, and I know it's an addiction as silly as it sounds. It was a way for me to escape from the problems that were happening at home. In fact I'm going to take the proceeds and buy some laminate flooring to install in the bedrooms, like we've been wanting to do for a long time.

 

IMWL's thread has been very helpful for me.

 

Thanks again.

Bravo, Bravo.... Where is that thumbs up smiley when I need it???

 

You have taken that first "little" step and realize that you can do something to make things better. You are now it that dark tunnel & which way do you go now?

 

Only time will tell but I'll give you a hint, there is a light at the end & someday you will see that light.

 

Going to a counselor can be a very positive thing. I'm very happy to hear you read a book before you are going so now you will hear what she is saying. You won't be like a dear in the headlights saying; that isn't me, I don't need help.

 

When she says your marriage needs help, you will be able to say; yes it does & there are many things "I" will be able to do to make it better. You will be able to say; yes "I" haven't given it my 100% like I should have been & I started yesterday.

 

Remember to listen to your W when you are there. She is going to tell you ALL KINDS of things that are bothering her but just listen. You might not agree with them or you might have your own version but remember she is saying those things because they dobother her.

 

I don't think it would be the best time to start telling them about all your changes, what you plan to do because they (your wife & counselor) won't believe you, but just tell your W you haven't done your part & you want to start making yourself a better husband & father.

 

Just think of the extra time you will have to help around the house, play with the kids when you aren't setting in front of the TV playing video games.

 

You have a long road ahead of you my friend, but you see there is something you can do about it, now it's your choice; what are you going to do?????

[El-Producto]

Well, today was a good day. I brought the kids back to the house, and we took them out to dinner, TOGETHER. The kids had a great time, and we talked like 2 civil adults. She asked me about my opinion on some projects for her business, and we talked about other non-confrontational things. I did a bunch of cleaning up around the house, so she didn't have to worry about it. We did talk alone for a few minutes, and I told her that I was sorry about the way I had acted the last few days, and that I'm feeling a lot better now, and really want to work at this thing. I didn't go on about how I'm working on myself, and am going to change. She seemed receptive to it, but was firm that she needed some space, for at least a month or so. I told her that I respected that, and that I wouldn't crowd her. We are going to go to regular counselling, and I asked her if in a few weeks we could start dating, just the two of us. She thought that would be a good idea, and I reminded her that if she wasn't comfortable to let me know.

 

Anyway, I'm going to stay at my parents for the next 3 nights while I work, and then on my 2 days off she is going to stay at a friends house. We have agreed not to tell the kids anything until we have given this a few weeks, and have a better idea of where things are going.

[Gunny376]

If, (and that's a pretty big IF!) the two of you manage to get this horse and buggy of a marriage out of the ditch, and back on the straight and narrow road, you need to be thinking in terms of months, and not weeks.

 

Its taken you a long time to get into the mess and to arrive where you're at in your life and in your marriage, and its going to take a long time to even begin to get it turn around ~ if you think otherwise ~ you're only fooling yourself.

 

It would seem from your last post that the DW, has raised and eyebrow or two, but it also sounds as if you have merely peaked her curiosity. Its is in action and deed not words where you're only hope lies ~ that and a lot of hard work. You're going to have to work your azz to get back to where you've should have been in the first place, and never were.

 

Anyone can talk the talk, but few if any can talk the talk and walk the walk. Nothing in this life worth having comes easy, and there's no such thing as free. If you want this marriage you're going to have to earn it the old fashion way ~ you're going to have to work for it. Just that freaking plain, and just that freaking simple.

 

That means you're going to have to reexamine every aspect of yourself and your belief system. With the wife having a business ~ she's close to not needing your sorry azz to begin with, (patience there's a reason for me calling you a sorry azz)

 

I called you a sorry azz, because 9.9 times out of ten when a woman goes into a relationship she puts her heart, mind, and soul into it in the beginning ~ thinking that what you did to win said heart, mind, and soul to begin with ~ will continue for a lifetime.

 

But, then we get married and you, like I put other priorties before our wives and our marriage. Yours was gaming and whatever else. Mine was the Marine Corps. For some other smuck it might be drinking, drugs, sex, porn, whatever. But, the bottom line almost as soon as we said "I do!" we don't!

 

Prior to this going down ~ you were ignorant to a lot of things ~ as I was. Like I said, you might, maybe, on a good day have had 1/10th of the experience and knowledge you needed to make this thing work to begin with. That's pretty much the case for most all of us ~ men and women ~ except most women have a slight edge over men ~ because rellationships, communicating, bonding etc is what most women do.

 

I called you a sorry azz, because in the eyes of most women involved with most men ~ to which you currently find yourself ~ that's how they see you.

 

As in "Sorry?!"

 

Why weren't you "sorry" when we first got married?

 

Why weren't you "sorry" a year, two years, three years ago?"

 

But now! Now that I'm wanting out, you're sorrry!? So now you can see and understand where the attitude comes from. The contempt, the bitterness, the anger.

 

Women really aren't that much more different than men ~ and I don't give a damn what Cosmo or Redbook says. Men and women are about 60% to 80% alike. Depends upon the indivdual man or woman, couple.

 

Right now what you need to be concentrating on ~ focused on is re-orientaing your priorties back to what they should have been in the first place ~ your wife, your children, your family, and making that your priorty in life.

 

And, I say that with the qualification ~ that it might already be too late?!

 

I wouldn't de facto move out of the house ~ but I would give the wife some time and space. I would show her that you're working on your weaknesses as a husband, a mate. That you are making changes. That you're adapting, improvising, and overcoming ~ even if that means you're flying by the seat of your pants!

 

What you need to do right here and now is concentrate and focus on you! Identify your weaknesses, and seek self-improvement. The ultimate goal would be to achieve confidence, and balance in yourself.

[El-Producto]

Man, I can't believe what a rollercoaster of emotions I'm going through. One minute I'm feeling great about myself, and the next I'm in tears. Kind of a hard thing to deal with at work. Sometimes I'm angry, and then I'm just pissed at myself, I don't know if I can handle this for 2 months.

 

I think the thing that really bothers me, is that her main point for needing space, is her lack of any sexual attraction to me. She keeps saying that she doesn't think anyone can regain that. I on the other hand think that that is natural in any marriage, but that in our case my behaviours or lack of love have contributed to her losing her sexual attraction to me. I think that if I can change those habits and behaviours, that she may redevelop her attraction to me. I'm not expecting an overnight change, but I just think we can do it over time.

 

Anyway, I decided to seek out my own counselor aside from the couples counselor we are going to see. I did mention to my counselor what my DW said that her counselor told her in regards to the separation being the best thing we needed. He did think that was strange, especially since she is a specialist in marriage/couple counselling. He said that that isn't usually advice they would give on meeting for the first time, especially since I wasn't there. I'm wondering if my wife didn't misconstrue the information somewhat, or maybe she isn't telling me everything. Either way, I'm going in with an open mind, and I'm going to ask my counselor for some advice.

 

I know I'm sounding desperate, but I really am. I CANNOT handle this marriage disolving. It makes me want to cry every time I think about it. And it hurst when everyone seems to say that it is inevitable, I just refuse to believe it. I'm sure I'm in denial, but I can't help it.

 

I miss her so much right now. I did a stupid thing today. I called her to let her know that I'd have to meet her at the therapist rather than carpool there. And I started questioning what her therapist said. She got very defensive, and I stopped quickly. What really killed me was, when I apologized for bringing it up, I said I loved her. And she just said "OK, Talk To You later". Man, how bloody stupid am I. Especially after reading all this advice, and these books, I just melt when I talk to her. I'm not gonna make that mistake again. I just so desperately want her to reassure me that we are going to make it through this. If I could hear her say that, I'd be so much more at peace.

 

The separation agreement is going fairly well so far. The kids don't seem to notice anything is up. It's nice that I'm able to stay there just as often as my wife.

 

Anyway, sorry for running on, but it feels so much better to lay it all out.

[Woggle]

Just let it go. I know it hurts but many many men are going through this right now. It seems to an epidemic these days. It is just another case of a woman being a woman in today's society. I really don't know why men are shocked when this happens.

[Aussie21yearsM3kids]

El-Producto,

 

You are amongst 'friends in the same predicament', everything you have stated is exactly the same to ALL on these forums both F&M.

Wish you well and hope you come up smiling.

 

MH

[Ladyjane14]

I think you should take a look at this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1126658

 

I hope the OP won't mind us referencing it, but I think there's benefit to be had for you in seeing a separation scenario from the female POV, particularly when stated as CLEARLY as this one is. I think you might learn quite a bit.

Here's an excerpt:

I guess I wanted to separate so that I can have some time without him in my face all the time with the "I can change" and "I'm a different man now" business. Don't think I really believe him. And I have contributed to this myself - have I changed? No, not really. So how can whatever he does be the answer to it all? Also so I could see that I really can handle this on my own (not like I haven't been doing that for years, anyway) and hopefully strenghten my conviction to go through with the big D. Or if I cave, then I'll just come back.

 

He doesn't want to separate because he says we need to spend more time together, how can it get better with us apart? I can see his point, of course, but again - this is providing that I want it to get better.

 

The OP has been very candid and forthright in her posts, and her agenda is right there in the bold print.

 

Sometimes people might separate with the intent being to create enough space so as to reassess problems, the main agenda being to work them out. But just as often... trial separation is a "test drive", a time for one of the partners to determine the viability of permanent separation. To allow a separation under those circumstances, is to allow a chance for it's success. IOW, if we're talking about a woman whose main agenda is to test the comfort level and viability of divorce, when she separates from her husband and then becomes content with her new single status... that status will prevail and become permanent.

 

IMHO, separation under these conditions is NOT fair to the partner who's being left on the back-burner. There isn't any "intent" on working out the issues. He's just a safety net at that point, and wearing his feelings on his sleeve to boot. There's nothing in it for him.

 

 

You know your situation best, El Producto. Not to make you paranoid, but you need to be aware that this above example is very often the bottom line of the matter. If you assess the situation and determine that your wife has NO INTENTION of working on the relationship during the separation, then "trial separation" works to her advantage, not yours. If that ends up being the case, helping her to leave you only helps her to succeed in ending the marriage permanently.

 

Anyway, your best bet in making your assessment regarding your wife's agenda is to approach it with clear eyes. Sometimes it's hard not to see what we want to see, right? Too much optimism isn't all that different from too much pessimism when it comes to determining another's motives. They both obscure the view.

[El-Producto]

Well, today has been a rollercoaster of a week. We went to counselling together, and she continued to be hostile toward me. We stayed apart from each other, but it seemed no matter how hard I tried, she was so distant from me. I started to suspect that she may be having an affair. And unfortunately last night, I found out that it was true.

 

I was looking for some sheets that my counselor had given me to read, and saw them in a folder that she had. Unfortunately in the folder were a bunch of letters and notes that she had written to herself about her co-worker who she just got back from a business trip with, and I even suggested that they share a room. He's 25 years older than her. How stupid was I?

 

It turns out it was only last week, since she came back from the trip that all of this separation business happened. So now that I look back, she was trying to justify what she did. We had a huge heart to heart talk last night, and funny enough I feel okay. I am so mad at her for betraying our marriage, but I also told her I understood that she finally felt NORMAL as far as her intimate feelings. For the last 3 years, she thought that it was her fault, and her body was messed up, but I realise now that it was a BIG symptom of our relationship. I don't hate her for what she did, but I told her that it is going to take a long time for me to forgive her. She is feeling terrible right now, and I told her that I wish that she had told me right away, because I have been clinging on to ever little bit of hope all week. It's probably been the worst week of my life.

 

It's weird though, I feel closer to her as a friend now then ever before. And I can accept that fact that we will never share that intimacy again. We still love each other as friends, and will always be the parents of each others children. I just told her that I don't want her to get hurt by the OM, because what he did was take advantage of someone who is vulnerable. She said that although she has a connection with him so strong, that it would lead her to make that mistake, she is not going to persue anything with him. All he did was make her realise that she is normal, and that she can have those feelings, just not with me.

 

The thing that is killing me, is I can't stop obsessing over the details of the affair. I hardly slept, because I just kept picturing the two of them together. I think what also hurts, is that my wife was my first and only lover to date. She realizes how much she has hurt me, and that the reason I am so upset, is because to me.. we were still married, even though she new in her heart it was over. She has apologized for all of the comparisons she made between me, and other men, and all of the bad things she has said about me. In fact she called up her close friends and family, and told them that she didn't mean what she said.

 

I have agreed to keep this affair between us. Only our counsellor, and her best friend know. We want to make a good life for our children, and want to have a relationship with each other, one that is based on love and friendship. We have decided to stay living in the same house for the rest of the year, until we can get our finances in order. There is not going to be any custody or financial battles in this divorce. We are going to treat each other with respect, and support each other through the rest of our lives. And we are going to continue spending time together as a family, and showing the kids that they are loved equally by two loving people.

 

It's so crazy, I'm hurt and relieved all at the same time. But the best part of the whole thing, is that the love and compassion that we have been looking for is now there, albeit in a different way.

[PWSX3]

I am sorry that things aren't working out like you had hoped but just like you said you know the truth now.

 

Sounds like you both are seeing how important honesty is in a relationship. Once you put everything out on the table then you are able to sort out those pieces and put the puzzle together.

 

Since you do have kids together she will still be in your life in one way or another so if you are able to keep it civil that will always be a plus for you & your kids.

 

Keep working at bettering yourself, learning what your part of a relationship is & as Dgiirl has found out there can be excitement after a divorce.

 

I wish you the best!!!!

[LakesideDream]

Sad, sad story. Another example of "I need space" being code for "I found another lover".

 

I understand that both men and women do it. I don't understand why. In my life I believe it's easier to make a break before "testing the water". But... I'm old school.

 

Good Luck, it will be a success story if you are able to remain friends, or at least polite to each other as your saga unfolds.

[Ladyjane14]

...she finally felt NORMAL as far as her intimate feelings. For the last 3 years, she thought that it was her fault, and her body was messed up, but I realise now that it was a BIG symptom of our relationship....

 

...She said that although she has a connection with him so strong, that it would lead her to make that mistake, she is not going to persue anything with him. All he did was make her realise that she is normal, and that she can have those feelings, just not with me....

 

...we were still married, even though she knew in her heart it was over....

 

Okay, let's talk, buddy.

 

When people cheat, they've willfully broken a promise that they've made previously to their spouse. In order to do that, they have to give themselves permission to engage in a behavior that they know fully well is WRONG. They have to justify it within their minds. And THAT usually calls for some heavy-duty rationalization.

 

During that "rationalization" process, the cheater will often rewrite the history of the marriage. In their minds, if the marriage was never good anyway... there's nothing to repair or save.

 

Now... looking up in the quote-box above at a few things I've highlighted for you, I want you to SEE the hypnosis... the rationalizations.

 

This isn't about YOU, man. This is about HER. When a woman chooses to ignore the vows she's made to her husband and family in order to have a sexual interaction with a man old enough to be her FATHER...

Dude, that's about HER and her own dysfunction. Whether it's a lack of confidence in managing her life or some kind of leftover childhood issues, a search for structure, or what-the-f*ck-ever... it's NOT about YOU.

 

You've stated that you've only had one lover. And now, that "one lover" is telling you that you weren't good enough to keep her body interested.

 

What I'm concerned about in that regard is that THIS is the message that you're taking away from this thing, and at the heart of it... it's BULLSH*T. It's blame-shifting, just because she doesn't know how to really own her dysfunction.

 

...I feel closer to her as a friend now then ever before. And I can accept that fact that we will never share that intimacy again. We still love each other as friends, and will always be the parents of each others children....

 

...I just told her that I don't want her to get hurt by the OM, because what he did was take advantage of someone who is vulnerable....

 

...It's so crazy, I'm hurt and relieved all at the same time. But the best part of the whole thing, is that the love and compassion that we have been looking for is now there, albeit in a different way....

 

Review your statements above. You know what that tells me?.... It tells me is that YOU are 'buying in' to the same hypnosis as your wife. You need to KNOW that this is not your fault. You might have 50% of the blame for whatever deficits there were in the marriage, but she has 100% of the blame for her decision to cheat.

 

...I have agreed to keep this affair between us. Only our counsellor, and her best friend know. We want to make a good life for our children, and want to have a relationship with each other, one that is based on love and friendship. We have decided to stay living in the same house for the rest of the year, until we can get our finances in order. There is not going to be any custody or financial battles in this divorce. We are going to treat each other with respect, and support each other through the rest of our lives. And we are going to continue spending time together as a family, and showing the kids that they are loved equally by two loving people.

 

Amicable divorces are all well and good as long as everybody's getting what they need out of the deal. Do NOT cheat yourself out of what YOU need just because you're feeling bad about what happened. Don't give away the store.

 

There will come a time when you REALIZE wtf really happened here, and you're going to be pissed off when you do. Guys like you end up walking out with just the shirts on their backs because they feel like they did something fundamentally wrong and deserved their poor treatment. But that feeling doesn't last. Eventually, the guilt dissipates and hindsight becomes 20/20.

 

My best advice to you is to creatively visualize your life as you'd like it to be 5 years from now, and then start making it happen. You don't have to be angry. You don't have to be mean. But you DO need to protect that vision of the future. Because you are going to be kicking yourself in the ass later on if you don't.

 

 

p.s. I'll be damned if I'd protect my spouses infidelities with LIES.

If anybody asked me what happened, you can bet your last sawbuck I'd tell 'em. There's no way, I wouldn't sue for divorce on grounds if I could.

You're still getting sold a bill of goods here, fella.

[Ladyjane14]

I think individual counseling might be highly beneficial to you right now. I don't want to see you walking away from this thing feeling bad about yourself, particularly in regards to your sexual functioning within the marriage. A good therapist can help you understand that this was NOT your fault.