Miss Jane Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 I can hardly believe how many threads and replies have been posted on this topic. Currently, going through the process of "recovery" after accidentally finding out my husband of 22 years got a lap dance, I've spent the last 4 months beating this thing to death in my head. This forum, under a few threads, has given me a lot of insight from many perspectives. My thought that I wanted to add right now is that the only purpose for men going to a gentlemen's club/strip club is to sexually fantasize about f****** these women/girls. It's live porn--no more, no less. One step beyond the movies and the magazines. And up close and personal, depending on how much you're willing to pay. My husband paid $50 for a "hot" blond girl still in high school to take him into her "office" for a little private entertainment. I don't think he's being truthful about the details, but the details I already know are like mental torture. It drives me crazy to think he was lusting over this naked young body inches from his face. To add--we have a daughter that age. I get the impression most people that post on this forum are pretty young. For those in relationships--I never thought my husband would have such poor judgement during an evening out with the guys while on a weekend trip to New Orleans. I heard about the swamp tour, the devastation tour, and all the great restaurants--oops, he forgot to mention the lapdance at the strip club! After 22 years of marriage, you think you know someone. And I trusted him so emphatically that it would never occur to me to even think of something like this situation--it hit me like a ton of bricks and I still have a REALLY BAD HEADACHE!
jmargel Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Wait a sec.. This guy has given you 22 years of great marriage and you are willing to just let it destroy you and the marriage over a stupid lap dance? You really need to get a grip here. So what if he lusted after her, and thought she was hot. News flash: It happens all the time, by everyone. Committed relationship or not, there is nothing wrong in thinking someone else is attractive and IMO there is nothing wrong w/ lapdances. I refuse to get into why, just re-read my previous posts on here. My thought that I wanted to add right now is that the only purpose for men going to a gentlemen's club/strip club is to sexually fantasize about f****** these women/girls. Not true and you among others do not even want to keep an open mind long enough to think there might be other reasons. I don't goto those places to sexually fantasize about them, I go there to have a good time with friends and my wife. Wouldn't it be much easier to just 'blow this off' and think to yourself that you are secure enough to handle something like this? Wouldn't you feel like a much stronger person to have gone upto your husband and say 'I hope you had a good time there' and mean it? Knowing that you trust him enough that he wouldn't try to sleep with her, and that he's really with you & loves you? Your imagination has run into over-drive and you are imagining things that did not happen. Like I said before the only way to get this out of your head is to goto a strip club yourself and see what goes on. How many times can you kick this dead horse? My god.. the poor thing's head is about to pop off from being kicked so much. Show your husband the respect he deserves in trusting him in these places. Keep doing what you are doing and you will be causing more damage to this relationship than what he has by lying to you.
a4a Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 go play putt putt instead JM..... you can have just as much fun. :lmao: Your lifestyle is not what some people want.... my god it is like you are trying to convert people to a strip club religion or some crap. What if I got on here and kept trying to convince you that clubbing puppies was enjoyable and fun and nothing wrong with doing that. If you don't dig clubbin' puppies, you think it is wrong, fine. I can at least understand that. Can you? ..... for cripes sake stop preachin' about the wonders and positives of attending strip clubs to people that obviously don't hold those same values. Good for you! You like it, Your wife likes it...... good for you! I swear you must be the president of the strippers association and get a cut of lap dance fees. blah blah blah blah blah blah....... I don't understand ...... unless you are trying to validate your own life by trying to convince others that it is harmless and just fine. * Keep in mind I am no prude, I worked a bar in one of the nicer places.... I have been, I have been with to them with groups, had bf's go and did not care... (because I did not care about the bf's really), so you cannot pull the prude or uneducated strip clubbin' card on me.
jmargel Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 When you try to insult me or degrade my posts it just makes your view on things weaker in my eyes. Clubbing puppies? Come on. Get real. I'm not trying to push SCs on anyone. If they don't want to go, that's fine. However MissJane's husband DID want to go and IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Giving him the respect of trusting him in a place like that just shows how strong the marriage is. Allowing him to have fun that isn't considered cheating is perfectly fine. You percieve this as such a threat when in all honesty there is a far greater threat of your husband cheating on you with a co-worker. Guess you should monitor him there as well? It's all about trust.. Either you trust him or you don't. If you trust him, then there should be no problem allowing him to go to have some innocent fun w/ his friends. If you don't trust him then leave him.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 It's all about trust.. Either you trust him or you don't. No.... it's NOT "all about trust", JM. A good portion of it is about respect, personal philosophy, and lifestyles. Some people don't WANT to be in a committed relationship with the kind of person that finds a strip club or lap dances to be appealing.
a4a Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 When you try to insult me or degrade my posts it just makes your view on things weaker in my eyes. Clubbing puppies? Come on. Get real. I'm not trying to push SCs on anyone. If they don't want to go, that's fine. However MissJane's husband DID want to go and IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Giving him the respect of trusting him in a place like that just shows how strong the marriage is. Allowing him to have fun that isn't considered cheating is perfectly fine. You percieve this as such a threat when in all honesty there is a far greater threat of your husband cheating on you with a co-worker. Guess you should monitor him there as well? It's all about trust.. Either you trust him or you don't. If you trust him, then there should be no problem allowing him to go to have some innocent fun w/ his friends. If you don't trust him then leave him. The fact is I would not want to be married to a SClubbie......... In my opinion it lacks class... see I would not want to be married a person I cannot respect.
jmargel Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 The fact is I would not want to be married to a SClubbie......... In my opinion it lacks class... see I would not want to be married a person I cannot respect. Same goes for you. Maybe they would not want to be married to you as well, since you can't give them the respect to be trusted at a place like that. No.... it's NOT "all about trust", JM. A good portion of it is about respect, personal philosophy, and lifestyles. Some people don't WANT to be in a committed relationship with the kind of person that finds a strip club or lap dances to be appealing It is all about trust. If it's your personal philosophy not to goto one, fine. However, don't impose your philosophies onto someone else and expect to agree to everything that you feel. You marry the person, you don't own them or try to enforce their feelings or wants to suit your lifestyle. If you can't handle it then leave the person, but to leave someone over a lap dance or because he goes to a strip club is immature (IMO) and only shows the issues that you need to work on.
amerikajin Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Don't ask, don't tell. Okay, in all seriousness here, I think it depends on what you two have established as guidelines during a marriage. If your wife understands you're going to a strip club from time to time and knows about it, and has no problem with it, I can't see the problem. But naturally, concealing the truth is going to lead someone to believe they're not trustworthy.
a4a Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Same goes for you. Maybe they would not want to be married to you as well, since you can't give them the respect to be trusted at a place like that. It is all about trust. If it's your personal philosophy not to goto one, fine. However, don't impose your philosophies onto someone else and expect to agree to everything that you feel. You marry the person, you don't own them or try to enforce their feelings or wants to suit your lifestyle. If you can't handle it then leave the person, but to leave someone over a lap dance or because he goes to a strip club is immature (IMO) and only shows the issues that you need to work on. doh.......... I was going to post something but it is like talking to a brick with strippers on it's mind. :lmao: :lmao: if bricks have minds even. but you see hell bent on trying to convince people sc are super! :lmao:
Ladyjane14 Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 It is all about trust. If it's your personal philosophy not to goto one, fine. However, don't impose your philosophies onto someone else and expect to agree to everything that you feel. You marry the person, you don't own them or try to enforce their feelings or wants to suit your lifestyle. If you can't handle it then leave the person, but to leave someone over a lap dance or because he goes to a strip club is immature (IMO) and only shows the issues that you need to work on. Married people ought to have some common ground on the larger issues. As Amerikajin points out.. there should be agreement between the two parties regarding their philosophy on appropriate marital behavior. Going to strip clubs and getting lap dances is NOT something you just spring on your partner. Particularly not when it's against the historical status quo. It's not about "ownership". It's not about being somebody else's boss. It's about basic, common, decency. You don't treat people that way, and you especially don't treat your partner that way. You don't change the rules midway down the pike to suit yourself. Married people are supposed to be in partnership with one another. Do you honestly think it's fair for one partner to spend the 'marital assets' by stuffing them down some stripper's G-string when the other is very much against it? Is that your idea of partnership? It's certainly not mine. I don't want one single red cent of my family's entertainment dollars to support that kind of sleaze. I'd rather give those dollars to a charitable cause than see them wasted perpetuating an industry that in my opinion is damaging to our society. And THAT's my philosophy. My husband would have some BIG negotiating to do in order to get around that if he wanted to go to one of these things. And it's not about trust in our case. It's about personal beliefs and where we spend our money. I'm not saying we wouldn't find common ground.. but it wouldn't be easy. I respect my spouse. But damn straight... I'm going to be respected in return. We're either in it together or we're not. I, for one, am not going to tolerate having the parameters of our relationship changed on his whim and without my consent. And I'm not going to tell anybody else they're wrong for feeling the same way.
jmargel Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 doh.......... I was going to post something but it is like talking to a brick with strippers on it's mind. :lmao: :lmao: if bricks have minds even. but you see hell bent on trying to convince people sc are super! :lmao: You just make yourself look like an idiot when you try to insult others. Grow up.
jmargel Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Married people ought to have some common ground on the larger issues. As Amerikajin points out.. there should be agreement between the two parties regarding their philosophy on appropriate marital behavior. Going to strip clubs and getting lap dances is NOT something you just spring on your partner. Particularly not when it's against the historical status quo. It's not about "ownership". It's not about being somebody else's boss. It's about basic, common, decency. You don't treat people that way, and you especially don't treat your partner that way. You don't change the rules midway down the pike to suit yourself. Married people are supposed to be in partnership with one another. Do you honestly think it's fair for one partner to spend the 'marital assets' by stuffing them down some stripper's G-string when the other is very much against it? Is that your idea of partnership? It's certainly not mine. I don't want one single red cent of my family's entertainment dollars to support that kind of sleaze. I'd rather give those dollars to a charitable cause than see them wasted perpetuating an industry that in my opinion is damaging to our society. And THAT's my philosophy. My husband would have some BIG negotiating to do in order to get around that if he wanted to go to one of these things. And it's not about trust in our case. It's about personal beliefs and where we spend our money. I'm not saying we wouldn't find common ground.. but it wouldn't be easy. I respect my spouse. But damn straight... I'm going to be respected in return. We're either in it together or we're not. I, for one, am not going to tolerate having the parameters of our relationship changed on his whim and without my consent. And I'm not going to tell anybody else they're wrong for feeling the same way. So I guess all the money he earns goes into a 'martial' account? He has none for his own? Or do you give him an allowance? Going to a SC is not a life-altering or a marriage-altering decision (IMO). There's a difference between going now & then and going every other day. People waste money on all sorts of things and if it's not hurting the family economically and it makes him happy while not jeopardizing the family and/or marriage then let him live a little. It's not about "ownership". It's not about being somebody else's boss. It's about basic, common, decency. That's right. Give him the basic common decency of trusting him in a place like that. Allow him to have his fun, while he should also allow you to have fun at a place like that if you wanted to go on a girl's night out to a male SC.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 So I guess all the money he earns goes into a 'martial' account? Yes... it does. So, does whatever money I earn. Going to a SC is not a life-altering or a marriage-altering decision Yes... it is. For some couples. People waste money on all sorts of things and if it's not hurting the family economically and it makes him happy while not jeopardizing the family and/or marriage then let him live a little. Yes... people waste money all the time. But if they don't agree on what they waste it on, then it does have the potential to jeopardize the family and/or marriage. One should not derive their 'happiness' at their partner's expense. Give him the basic common decency of trusting him in a place like that. Allow him to have his fun, while he should also allow you to have fun at a place like that if you wanted to go on a girl's night out to a male SC. You know, a4a had a valid point. This really IS like talking to a "brick with strip clubs on it's mind". My husband and I are in PERFECT agreement on this subject. Neither of us has any burning desire to go to a strip club or to throw our cash down the sewer for that matter. ...And NOBODY's rights are being being impeded in our home or in our marriage. You are either being deliberately obtuse.. or maybe it's YOU who has a little growing up to do.
a4a Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 You just make yourself look like an idiot when you try to insult others. Grow up. there is no insult. I am simply stating an opinion. Again you protest way too much. Thanks for calling me an idiot -
rainfall Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Same goes for you. Maybe they would not want to be married to you as well, since you can't give them the respect to be trusted at a place like that. It is all about trust. If it's your personal philosophy not to goto one, fine. However, don't impose your philosophies onto someone else and expect to agree to everything that you feel. You marry the person, you don't own them or try to enforce their feelings or wants to suit your lifestyle. If you can't handle it then leave the person, but to leave someone over a lap dance or because he goes to a strip club is immature (IMO) and only shows the issues that you need to work on. It is not about trust. It is about respect and sharing the same values. I trust my man but I still would never stay with him if he thought looking at women like that was something that was ok. Leaving someone over a lap dance is not immature. If you feel it is cheating why stay with someone who does it? Just because you find it ok does not mean everyone esle does or does it mean everyone esle should find it ok. To many people it is cheating and they have every right to feel that way. You will never change their mind to make them view it as ok to have some chick grind her naked body into their SO's body.
Sheba Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 This is an interesting thread. I think if jmargel has a woman who does not mind if he goes to strip clubs and gets lap dances then it is wonderful that he found her and she him. I don't agree with much that you say on this particular issue, jmargel, except for your point that the strippers are not to "blame" in these incidents. Those women are interchangeable, I am sure, to the men that patronize them. The men are probably more like ATMs to the strippers than human beings. They are just taking their money. So, to me, strippers (or prostitutes for that matter) are not in the same category at all as "other women" who are having intimate emotional/social/sexual affairs with married men. The men are 100% responsible for their choice to pay for this "service" to be provided to them. I know my husband would be very upset if a barely dressed or naked man was rubbing himself against me for my sexualized entertainment, and that for this reason he would not/should not put himself in a situation where a similarly attired woman was doing that to him. Even if my husband could tolerate that, I couldn't stand the converse, and I guess I don't feel I am asking too much from him if I tell him I need him to give up the strip club lap dance. He can socialize with men friends elsewhere. There are dozens of naked women on TV every night. Sexualized touching outside of the marriage, of any sort, by anyone, crosses a big line in my mind. We all get to draw our own lines. Happily, my husband gets a gold star on this point. One problem we don't have!
jmargel Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 I'm not going to quote & respond to every statement since you all know my stance on this. It won't change. It's funny how you are all against your man seeing a stripper but everytime I go out on a Sat. night to a dance club I see all the women there dressed to the nines, dressing very sexy and one can say they are almost 'advertising'. They dress in their tight shirts, short skirts fully knowing that men are looking at them and giving them reason to have those guys come up and flirt. Yet, these are the same women that 'forbid' their husbands/bfs or that they find it disrespectful that they goto a strip club. Oh I know though, that none of you women do that. You just sit home on a Saturday night reading books or something I mean you would have to right? Since your morals are so high. So I know there is a lot of hypocracy in this thread. The women that I've seen in these clubs don't dress up to 'feel good about themselves' they do it for attention. Plain and simple. So if you can dress up for wanting the attention of other men, you should not have a problem having another woman gain his. Put your man on a short enough leash and he will break free. Trust me on this. He will find those women that are more trusting, more adventurous alot more attractive.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 The women that I've seen in these clubs don't dress up to 'feel good about themselves' they do it for attention. Plain and simple. So if you can dress up for wanting the attention of other men, you should not have a problem having another woman gain his. Shows what YOU know. Women tend to put in more effort towards their attire, hair, and make-up when they want to impress OTHER WOMEN. We're competitive like that. How else can you explain "sweat pants and pony-tails" when we're home with our husbands? Getting dressed up attractively increases our power because it increases our confidence. In fact, if a woman wants to really intimidate another woman... her best bet is to be flawlessly turned out and wearing lipstick in either a coral or magenta shade. In friendship though, we shop together and exchange clothing with one another like we're still playing with Barbies. That's just for fun. It's NOT as much about "wanting the attention of other men" as you might think. Although, compliments from the male of the species ARE nice and validating.
a4a Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Not sure how old you are JM but I am no longer in my 20's nor is my H. But I get plenty of attention wearing barn boots and a flannel shirt. I also get plenty of respect as well. No, in my case my H thinks of those scantily clad women as "skanks". And gotta love those muffin tops And yes some of us do stay home and read books.... or for that matter work on Sat nights. Not all of us parade about on Sat nights trying to bolster our self esteem with the attentions of men or women for that matter. but whatever floats your boat.
jmargel Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Shows what YOU know. Women tend to put in more effort towards their attire, hair, and make-up when they want to impress OTHER WOMEN. We're competitive like that. How else can you explain "sweat pants and pony-tails" when we're home with our husbands? Getting dressed up attractively increases our power because it increases our confidence. In fact, if a woman wants to really intimidate another woman... her best bet is to be flawlessly turned out and wearing lipstick in either a coral or magenta shade. In friendship though, we shop together and exchange clothing with one another like we're still playing with Barbies. That's just for fun. It's NOT as much about "wanting the attention of other men" as you might think. Although, compliments from the male of the species ARE nice and validating. What a bunch of BS. That's what I am talking about.. Hypocracy. Might as well get a boob-job as well and say it's because you want to 'boost' your confidence. It's all about getting the eyes onto you.
jmargel Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Not sure how old you are JM but I am no longer in my 20's nor is my H. But I get plenty of attention wearing barn boots and a flannel shirt. I also get plenty of respect as well. No, in my case my H thinks of those scantily clad women as "skanks". And gotta love those muffin tops And yes some of us do stay home and read books.... or for that matter work on Sat nights. Not all of us parade about on Sat nights trying to bolster our self esteem with the attentions of men or women for that matter. but whatever floats your boat. For your info, I am 33, and not some 'punk' as you might think. I am quite successful in my career and mature enough unlike your 'H' to label these dancers as "skanks". And I am sure that you never have gone out and dressed to the nines, right? Oh, that's right. You might have once in a blue moon but jeez.. it's definetly not to have the attention directed your way, right? See the hyprocracy is there. You women do the same things as these dancers do. However these dancers are smart enough to actually get paid a good bit of money as well to do it.
a4a Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 What a bunch of BS. That's what I am talking about.. Hypocracy. Might as well get a boob-job as well and say it's because you want to 'boost' your confidence. It's all about getting the eyes onto you. Lets see....... If I get dressed up and fix myself up to go to a meeting it is because I want men to think about having sex with me??? Same reason brides must want to look pretty on their wedding day .......so all the guests want to have sex with them? I dress down often to not offend people and to show that I am not a horny chick advertising my wares. I may work outside in a little tank top when it is hot as hell but before I head to town I throw on a t-shirt or over shirt. Funny though I still get the eyes on me, I actually find it quite annoying a good majority of the time..... perhaps I am overly selective about who I choose to parade my sexiness around. Maybe you get dressed or comb your hair hoping that someone may desire you...... perhaps you are projecting your own thoughts thinking that all people have the need to feel like sex objects and that is the only way women can feel good about themselves? So going to strip clubs help the strippers feel good about themselves? ,
a4a Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 For your info, I am 33, and not some 'punk' as you might think. I am quite successful in my career and mature enough unlike your 'H' to label these dancers as "skanks". And I am sure that you never have gone out and dressed to the nines, right? Oh, that's right. You might have once in a blue moon but jeez.. it's definetly not to have the attention directed your way, right? See the hyprocracy is there. You women do the same things as these dancers do. However these dancers are smart enough to actually get paid a good bit of money as well to do it. Wow....... you are angry..... mine and my husbands opinion is our opinion.... and I said scantily clad women... not dancers.... and yeah I think a vast majority of dancers are skanky...not all... not because they are naked but I have known quite a few....... lets just say Duke, and leave it at that. I don't need to show my butt crack or wear plunging necklines to get attention... hell the only person I want attention from is my H.... I can dress sexy at home. I prefer to be known as a respectable person not the town pump nor dress like the town pump. As for doing what dancers do........ not in the slightest. The closest I may get to that is dancing.... no grinding... fully clothed. And as for getting things or money. Hell I just did that a couple of moments ago. But from a wife who thinks I am just the most superest person in the whole world. No need to show her my body to get her money.... nor her husband.
jmargel Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Lets see....... If I get dressed up and fix myself up to go to a meeting it is because I want men to think about having sex with me??? If you dress up like you would on a saturday night going to a dance club, then yes you are advertising. But I would hope you would dress a little more conservative when you goto your meetings. So going to strip clubs help the strippers feel good about themselves I'm sure at first it's an ego booster to them, but after awhile it's just another job. The point I was making with this is if women can dress sexy and provocative to have the attention they crave and for those same women to say it's disrespectful for their husbands/bfs to goto a strip club is being a hypocrite. Wow....... you are angry..... mine and my husbands opinion is our opinion Not angry at all. I am not the one throwing insults, am I? However for your husband to stereotype dancers as "skanks" IS immature. There are good & bad people inside and outside the strip clubs. Labeling a person for what kind of work they do is wrong.
Sheba Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 I think you are tossing insults, jmargel. Maybe tossing insults back? You keep calling other posters hypocrites, and to me that is an insult. You are obviously feeling defensive and perhaps for good reason - I can't remember who started what on this thread. What I don't understand about this thread, jmargel, is why you seem to feel your standards and views are so universal. I don't think they are. I am not a hypocrite. I don't have a double standard. I don't dress up in revealing clothes and go out without my husband. I don't know why you would assume the other posters are hypocrites. Not that I agree with all that they say, but I don't doubt their sincerity. I don't want my husband going to strip clubs, but if another woman did not have a problem with HER husband going to those clubs I would not think her a fool. I would just think she was different than me. I might wonder why, but I wouldn't feel disdainful. I was sincere when I said that if you have a woman that does not mind you receiving lap dances that it is nice you found each other. And, for those of us who are opposed to our men engaging in these activities, it is nice if we find men who don't want to participate. Seems simple enough to me.
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