Bachelor Party Woes

[Ladyjane14]

What a bunch of BS. That's what I am talking about.. Hypocracy. Might as well get a boob-job as well and say it's because you want to 'boost' your confidence. It's all about getting the eyes onto you.

 

 

It just so happens that women tend to get augmentative breast surgery in order to boost self-confidence and bolster low self-esteem. It seldom works though , and according to THIS ARTICLE... they actually suffer a higher suicide rate.

 

Take a poll if you don't believe me. Ask some actual women WHY they dress up when they go out. Hell, go ask your wife. She's got better credentials than you do. You know... being a WOMAN and all that.

[Ladyjane14]

Same reason brides must want to look pretty on their wedding day .......so all the guests want to have sex with them?

 

Dang... my bad. I didn't KNOW that looking pretty on my wedding day meant I was supposed to be sexing up the guests. Gosh, I hope they weren't too disappointed.

[a4a]

If you dress up like you would on a saturday night going to a dance club, then yes you are advertising. But I would hope you would dress a little more conservative when you goto your meetings.

 

 

Well I don't hang out in dance clubs, I do attend functions where evening wear is needed. However I don't wear skanky clothing.

 

I'm sure at first it's an ego booster to them, but after awhile it's just another job. The point I was making with this is if women can dress sexy and provocative to have the attention they crave and for those same women to say it's disrespectful for their husbands/bfs to goto a strip club is being a hypocrite.

 

Dressing sexy or however you dress is not a way for all women to get the attention they crave :rolleyes: . At times I may dress sexy but with class.... you can look very sexy without showing your wares. I do not do so to get the attention of others, I do so because I look good in it. I really don't want some guy drooling and thinking "I wanna plug that hole"..... that is not a compliment to me that is an insult. And those types of insults are readilly availble for anyone that dresses the part or has a lifestyle that invites them...... if they feel good about that...... good for them, not my cup o'tea.

 

 

Not angry at all. I am not the one throwing insults, am I?

 

Yes you continue to call people hypocrites, immature, blah blah blah. and you need to read the post more carefully I also think the vast majority of dancers are skanky...... not all, but a good part of them. This is from my personal interactions and dealings with them....... not just watching them naked on a stage...... outside of the bar. **** note I also think drug dealers are skanky. I am sure you agree that line of work is "skankafied", there are not so many upstanding drug dealers.

 

However for your husband to stereotype dancers as "skanks" IS immature. There are good & bad people inside and outside the strip clubs. Labeling a person for what kind of work they do is wrong.

 

read Shebas post.....

I totally agree with it.

Now continue to insult me. However it really does not bother me, I consider the source of the insult.

[a4a]

Dang... my bad. I didn't KNOW that looking pretty on my wedding day meant I was supposed to be sexing up the guests. Gosh, I hope they weren't too disappointed.

 

Well geeze you didn't wear thigh highs and a muffin top mini skirt with no panties?

 

As for the self esteem thing..... for cripes sake look at that Anna Nicole Smith....

[Sheba]

Since I got a little positive reinforcement from a4a, I will continue with my thoughts on this fascinating topic.

 

I feel sorry for strippers. I can't imagine that life is easy knowing that some large percentage of the population thinks you are the scum of the earth. I realize that some strippers may tell themselves that others are jealous and that some may truly enjoy the attention and feeling of power, but I think those rationalizations would be thin and the enjoyment transitory.

 

Do you think these women go to pick up their kids from school with "I dance at Pinky's Palace" t-shirts on? I doubt it. I imagine they must feel they need to hide their occupation in many contexts.

 

And, even if they are secure in their rationalizing and true attention hounds, does anyone really believe they like or even "don't mind" being mawled by any man with a few dollars to pay for the privilege of the mawling? How about some smelly man with poor hygiene trying to poke and prod them? How about giving a lap dance to a man who might have worn the same pair of jeans for a week? To me, these things sound like nightmares! It is like submitting yourself to be assaulted for a few dollars.

 

I guess I just can't imagine that this is an occupation that is emotionally healthy for the practitioners, and I think that is a big part of the reason a lot of people feel disdain for the men who attend strip clubs. The men seem to be taking advantage of the strippers' need to earn a living.

 

Having said all that, I don't know a single stripper, so I may be totally out to lunch.

[Ladyjane14]

Well geeze you didn't wear thigh highs and a muffin top mini skirt with no panties?

 

No ma'am. I'm a Southern girl. So, of course I wore my Daisy Dukes and a flannel shirt tied up halter style. No muffin top, but maybe a little cheek showing if you looked right close. :p

[jmargel]

LJ I have asked my wife and she just comes right out and says she likes to look hot. In which I don't mind. If I were to then I would be a hyprocrite. I enjoy looking at hot women, including my wife so for her to dress up and look sexy when we go out is perfectly fine with me.

 

However these same women that dress up like this and then just preach on how disrespectful and "wrong" it is for their men to look at other beautiful women (naked or not) is being a hypocrite.

 

A4a, I read all the posts. You don't like being called a hyprocrite, do you? However you are just as fast to call strippers "skanks" and other people have mentioned they were "whores". If you can dish it out, then take it.

 

 

I feel sorry for strippers. I can't imagine that life is easy knowing that some large percentage of the population thinks you are the scum of the earth.

 

Right here is a statement on why I continue this debate with you all. It's your attitude of people you don't know. You are judging a book by it's cover. No different than saying all blacks are "ho's", etc..

 

Funny how some of these "skanks" are paying their way through college and are your next teacher, doctor, lawyer. Are they still "skanks" in your eyes when they get their doctorates?

 

Do you think these women go to pick up their kids from school with "I dance at Pinky's Palace" t-shirts on? I doubt it. I imagine they must feel they need to hide their occupation in many contexts

 

Nope outside of work they are just like you and I. They don't have a need to "hide" their occupation but probably don't advertise it, just like anyone else out there.

 

 

And, even if they are secure in their rationalizing and true attention hounds, does anyone really believe they like or even "don't mind" being mawled by any man with a few dollars to pay for the privilege of the mawling? How about some smelly man with poor hygiene trying to poke and prod them? How about giving a lap dance to a man who might have worn the same pair of jeans for a week? To me, these things sound like nightmares! It is like submitting yourself to be assaulted for a few dollars.

 

They do it to pay the bills. That's what I have been saying all along. They don't want your man. So why be all insecure about it? There's a much better chance that your man will be snatched up by one of his co-workers or by a girlfriend of yours.

 

I guess I just can't imagine that this is an occupation that is emotionally healthy for the practitioners, and I think that is a big part of the reason a lot of people feel disdain for the men who attend strip clubs. The men seem to be taking advantage of the strippers' need to earn a living.

 

It's a service. You pay for what you get in return. It's entertainment and to be quite honest alot of those women I've seen really know how to dance pretty damn good.

 

You seem to have such a vendetta against strippers. It is sad that you guys think this way. It's also sad that you don't have enough trust in your husbands to let them goto one of these places without them feeling major guilt or worry that this would backlash on them. If he doesn't want to goto one then that's fine. This is for the ones that keep their husband's on a short leash due to their insecurity.

 

Yet these are the same women that go out and dress up sexy on a saturday night, the ones that get breast implants and the ones that smile flirtatiously at other men. They reason this by saying it boost their 'confidence' and 'empowers' them. For that, I call bull****. That's hypocracy, like it or not.

 

Deal with the real issues here, try not to sidetrack things by lashing out at the dancers. They are doing nothing wrong.

[a4a]

It has nothing to do with trust. If your values are that strippers not be included in your life, that is not a trust issue. Just like going to church, something else we will never do.

 

Now keep in mind that my H is a male that thinks strippers are skanky. I know many men that have made comments about strippers not being the kind of people they would bring home to meet the family. Many men I know make fun of them and look down at them.

 

Now tell me JM - answer this question. How about those porn stars that have sex with animals...... do you not pass judgement on them? Don't you think they are nasty for doing that?

 

And I am shocked that you think it is ok for your wife to want to dress up for other men. Maybe it was not clear in the post?

[Sheba]

jmargel

 

I am trying to respond to you in a respectful manner. I have read your posts on other threads and you seem to try to give people helpful responses. So, I am assuming you are a decent person and assuming you are an honest person.

 

If you are going to respond to me, even in an indirect fashion, by quoting me, please treat me with the same respect I give you. I did not lash out at strippers. I did not call them names here or elsewhere.

 

I don't think it is at all fair to say that the same women who do not like their husbands to go to strip clubs are hypocrites that all go out dressed designed to titillate other men. In fact, your own relationship proves this is not true, as you say your wife likes to dress sexy and is not threatened by you patronizing strip clubs.

 

Clearly,in YOUR relationship you are free to go to these clubs and have lap dances and that your wife has no problem with that. You make a good point: not every woman has a problem with her husband attending strip clubs. However, some women do, and that does not make us hypocrites.

[Salicious Crumb]

It just so happens that women tend to get augmentative breast surgery in order to boost self-confidence and bolster low self-esteem.

 

Well..actually...you are both right....its to boost self-esteem...AND because they want men to look. If nobody could see them...whats the point?

[Salicious Crumb]

A4a, I read all the posts. You don't like being called a hyprocrite, do you? However you are just as fast to call strippers "skanks" and other people have mentioned they were "whores". .

 

Well....strippers are getting money for performing sexual type acts...may not be sex itself...but it is the fantasy of such and they ARE selling sex...just not intercourse.

 

Sounds like a "whore" to me.

[Salicious Crumb]

It's a service. You pay for what you get in return. It's entertainment and to be quite honest alot of those women I've seen really know how to dance pretty damn good.

 

uh huh...and thats just what the men thing..."damn they are good dancers"...ya...thats EXACTLY why they are going.

 

Sorry bud...I don't think a most of the men would go to one of these clubs if they never took off their clothes and never touched them and simulated f#ckin' them on a couch.

 

You seem to have such a vendetta against strippers. It is sad that you guys think this way. It's also sad that you don't have enough trust in your husbands to let them goto one of these places without them feeling major guilt or worry that this would backlash on them.

 

Its not about trust...its about respect...I imagine most of these women feel pretty shi!tty about themselves thinking that they aren't good enough that their husbands have to go watch other women take off their clothes.

 

But I understand you don't care about their feelings at all. You just don't get that these women feel like crap about themselves that their husband go watch other women strip.

 

Deal with the real issues here, try not to sidetrack things by lashing out at the dancers. They are doing nothing wrong.

 

Would you want your daughter doing it? I predict you'd say "sure, why not"

[Ladyjane14]

LJ I have asked my wife and she just comes right out and says she likes to look hot. In which I don't mind.

 

So... did she answer the question, or not?

'Just to look hot' isn't much of an answer, you know. Is she looking hot for you? Is she looking hot to impress her friends? ...Or is she looking hot for other guys? And if she's looking hot for other guys, what is it she's hoping to accomplish by that? Is it validating for her femininity if random guys are hitting on her?

 

I think you've got to ask yourself at some point which answer you'd REALLY prefer to hear, dude.

Because an honest answer to this question tells you a little something about a girl's personality, know what I mean?

 

I enjoy looking at hot women, including my wife so for her to dress up and look sexy when we go out is perfectly fine with me.

 

But do you enjoy guys looking at her? And do you think that EVERY woman wants that kind of ogling. 'Cause really, it's kind of gross to be on the receiving end of that.

Unless you've ever had to look some less-than-studly guy in the face and say..."Hey fella... I'm up here."... I don't think you're in a position to REALLY identify with what I'm talking about.

 

See... the problem with men who believe that ALL women choose their style for the sole purpose of getting laid... is that they don't really understand women... (and they haven't taken into account the multi-billion dollar media and fashion industries that dictates our psychology to such a large degree.)

 

Frankly, if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the less men understand and identify with women, the more they secretly dislike and fear them.

 

And THAT, my friend, is what alot of this boils down to. Now, I'm not going to change your mind about strip clubs or the sex industry as a whole. But you won't change mine either. IMO, it reduces living, breathing, human beings to mere commodities. And just because these individuals are intellectually challenged, needy, or greedy enough to sign on for that voluntarily... doesn't mean it's not wrong and not harmful to our society. It adds to the problem. It doesn't solve it.

 

But here you have soooo many men that actually SUPPORT it. They call it "fun". Personally, I can't see the "fun" in reducing a woman to the sum total of her body parts. I'm wondering if it was YOUR daughter shaking her booty or grinding her bum into some stranger's lap if you'd think of it as "fun" then. (????)

Because I guarantee you... NOBODY looks into their infant daughter's eyes and hopes she'll one day grow up to be fodder for some random guy's "fun".

 

You keep reminding us that "strippers are people too", but seriously... who's got their best interests at heart, you or me?

I'd rather see a girl cure cancer or be an astronaut on the first Mars mission... or just be a Mom raising her kids to be good citizens. Not abasing herself for the titillation of a crowd of strangers.

 

So no, I will NOT "respect" them as long as their plying their trade. But would I respect a recovered stripper? Would I encourage everybody and anybody NOT to support the sex industry because of it's degrading effect on our society. You betcha.

 

You know, getting back to your imaginary daughter for a minute... The actions or non-actions we take today are the only protection she has for tomorrow.

 

Already, little girls, middle schoolers, high schoolers... are sitting in classrooms all over the world, next to some grainy-eyed boy who's been up half the night checking out every kind of porn he can find on the internet. All that boy has to do is LIE to the prompt box which asks if he's 18, and he'll be viewing crap you couldn't even imagine back when you were his age.

 

He's already sexually-charged by his own physiology and encouraged by the pressure of his peers in the locker room. And HIS view of women and sex... is what he's learned in his secret, late-night excursions out on the world-wide web.

...And he's sitting right next to YOUR baby girl and viewing her through THAT murky lens.

[rainfall]

 

Nope outside of work they are just like you and I. They don't have a need to "hide" their occupation but probably don't advertise it, just like anyone else out there.

 

They do it to pay the bills. That's what I have been saying all along. They don't want your man. So why be all insecure about it? There's a much better chance that your man will be snatched up by one of his co-workers or by a girlfriend of yours.

 

 

You seem to have such a vendetta against strippers. It is sad that you guys think this way. It's also sad that you don't have enough trust in your husbands to let them goto one of these places without them feeling major guilt or worry that this would backlash on them. If he doesn't want to goto one then that's fine. This is for the ones that keep their husband's on a short leash due to their insecurity.

 

 

.

 

The only guy I ever care to dress up for is my man. I don't flirt with or smile at other guys when I go out. I go out with my friends to be with them not to get attention from a stranger.

 

I am nothing like a stripper. I do not perform sexual acts for money. I respect myself enough to know I do not have to sink that low in life to pay my bills.

 

I trust my man to not want a stripper. He does not like skanky women. However I do not feel I should have to compromise my values to be in a relationship with him or anyone. If he ever decides going to strip clubs is more important to him then I am then he is free to go. Just like I am free to leave him when he decides to do something I consider a "deal-breaker."

 

Its great that you and your wife find enjoyment in strippers and strip clubs. However I really doubt you are going to change my mind or anyone esle's mind with you crusdade to prove the strippers are wonderful people.

[jmargel]

I'm not on at night or on the weekends so there's alot I have to respond to:

 

It has nothing to do with trust. If your values are that strippers not be included in your life, that is not a trust issue. Just like going to church, something else we will never do.

 

Like I said if you and your husbands/bfs values are against going to a SC then that's great. I'm not saying everyone has to go. What I am saying is that if your husband/bf wants to go now and then and HIS values are different than yours, then let him be his own person. He's a grown adult and doesn't need to be told where he can and can't go.

 

Now keep in mind that my H is a male that thinks strippers are skanky. I know many men that have made comments about strippers not being the kind of people they would bring home to meet the family. Many men I know make fun of them and look down at them.

 

Now tell me JM - answer this question. How about those porn stars that have sex with animals...... do you not pass judgement on them? Don't you think they are nasty for doing that?

 

And I am shocked that you think it is ok for your wife to want to dress up for other men. Maybe it was not clear in the post?

 

It's that attitude right there that I have a problem with. You and your husband continue to label these dancers as 'skanks' when you don't even know them. Just because they are a dancer doesn't mean they are a whore. Those two do not go together.

 

And how you got to the subject of strippers to women having sex with animals is beyond me. You are really grasping at straws here. Having sex with animals is animal abuse and wrong, however these dancers are not even close to doing that.

 

The point I am trying to make with my wife is that I don't mind that she dresses up sexy. She dresses sexy to show off her beauty and I know with that comes with guys looking at her. Plenty of times I've been at a club w/ her and a guy has come upto me and complimented me on my wife, and there are plenty of times when she walks by a guy his head will turn. She looks like a mix of Paris Hilton & Heather Locklear.

 

The reason I don't mind her dressing sexy is because I trust her. Just like she trusts me when I goto a SC or I am at a club with her and dance w/ one of her female friends. I actually took one of her female friends to a SC, she wanted to know what it was all about. My wife didn't mind. She wasn't threatened, nor felt insecure. She has already told me if I was going to cheat on her it would probably be with someone outside one of those places, which is true if I was ever dumb enough to do something like that.

 

She also allows me to make my own choices in these decisions. If my wife told me she felt uncomfortable about me going to a SC, good chance that I wouldn't. BUT the main difference is that I would be making up my own decision not her nagging me or threatening to leave if I were to goto one. She wouldn't try to guilt me out of going either. I give her the same respect she gives me.

 

Putting limitations on your husband/bf and trying to justify it by saying its not 'respectful' to goto one is BS. Especially since the majority of you never even been to one and really don't know what it's like.

 

I don't think it is at all fair to say that the same women who do not like their husbands to go to strip clubs are hypocrites that all go out dressed designed to titillate other men. In fact, your own relationship proves this is not true, as you say your wife likes to dress sexy and is not threatened by you patronizing strip clubs.

 

It is fair to say. When a woman dresses up sexy there is always a small part of her that does it for the attention. Doesn't matter if it's for the attention of other women or men. With that being said when a woman does this, they should not have a problem with her man's attention going for another woman, stripper or not.

 

My wife dresses sexy and doesn't mind me going to a SC. So, she's not a hypocrite. If she were to still dress sexy and to the nines going out and expected me not to ever see dancers or look at other beautiful women then yes she would then be a hypocrite.

 

Well....strippers are getting money for performing sexual type acts...may not be sex itself...but it is the fantasy of such and they ARE selling sex...just not intercourse.

 

Sounds like a "whore" to me.

 

Well then by your statement that could really go for any actor in a R -Rated movie. Guess alot of people in this world are 'whores' to you.

 

uh huh...and thats just what the men thing..."damn they are good dancers"...ya...thats EXACTLY why they are going.

 

Sorry bud...I don't think a most of the men would go to one of these clubs if they never took off their clothes and never touched them and simulated f#ckin' them on a couch.

 

You would be surprised. Last time I went to the SC, alot of the guys were not sitting at the stage, but further back. At least at this club I was at, sitting that far back, that's all you can do is watch. The girls did not go up that far to talk with the men.

 

Its not about trust...its about respect...I imagine most of these women feel pretty shi!tty about themselves thinking that they aren't good enough that their husbands have to go watch other women take off their clothes.

 

It's about trust and it's about respect. Respect the husband/bf enough to let him go freely and trust him in those places. If a woman has insecurity issues then that's her problem, not his. Insecurity will often ruin a relationship. These same women should be just as free to go as their men are. If my wife wanted to go see male strippers I told her she could go. I know they are better looking than me, but I'm not intimidated by that. I know if she were to go it would be w/ her gfs and she knows where her boundaries are.

 

But I understand you don't care about their feelings at all. You just don't get that these women feel like crap about themselves that their husband go watch other women strip.

 

I care very much about my wife's feelings and like before I said if she told me she felt uncomfortable about me going, I probably wouldn't go. However she would leave that choice upto me and if I still decided to go, I know she wouldn't let it hang over my head nor would she be threatening to end our marriage.

 

My ex-fiancee was alot like you women here. Controlling and used guilt and everything else under the sun to steer me on what I can and can't do. You women who do this, are selfish. Over time you will notice resentment that will build up from your husbands/bfs. I'm so glad I didn't marry her and found someone who has enough trust and security in me to say 'have a good time' when I goto one of these places.

 

Would you want your daughter doing it? I predict you'd say "sure, why not"

 

If I had a daughter I would hope that she wouldn't. Just like those dancers there I hope they would find the happiness they are searching for. If it was my daughter's dream to be a dancer, then I would have to support her. However not too many girls say "I want to be a stripper when I grow up" It's because how society looks down on them and degrades them, something what you are doing.

 

But do you enjoy guys looking at her? And do you think that EVERY woman wants that kind of ogling. 'Cause really, it's kind of gross to be on the receiving end of that

 

It puts a smile on my face knowing that I have such a beautiful wife and with a club full of men and her choice of really anyone she is with me. I value her not only because of her looks but of her trust and love for me.

 

I would think given the option most women would prefer to be looked at by other men, then not looked at, at all. So I can't believe women would feel 'gross' by just having men look at you. If that's the case then you have some serious issues.

 

See... the problem with men who believe that ALL women choose their style for the sole purpose of getting laid... is that they don't really understand women... (and they haven't taken into account the multi-billion dollar media and fashion industries that dictates our psychology to such a large degree.)

 

Did I say getting laid? Has nothing to do with that. Has everything to do with boosting your own self-ego knowing you dress up with the notion of men looking at you but then in the same sentence you are telling your man he can't go out to see strippers. Women dress up to get noticed, plain and simple. Just like when they get face-lifts, tummy tucks, boob-jobs.

 

I'd rather see a girl cure cancer or be an astronaut on the first Mars mission... or just be a Mom raising her kids to be good citizens. Not abasing herself for the titillation of a crowd of strangers.

 

Like I said alot of these doctors, lawyers, teachers were dancers.. It's how they paid their way through school and survived. Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

 

So no, I will NOT "respect" them as long as their plying their trade. But would I respect a recovered stripper? Would I encourage everybody and anybody NOT to support the sex industry because of it's degrading effect on our society. You betcha.

 

Yep, blame the sex industry for our degrading effect on society. Easy way out, huh? People are smart enough to make their own choices in life and for you to basically lay blame to the dancers for degrading our society is just another insult to them.

 

Prostitution and stripping is one of the oldest professions out there. It's been going on for hundreds of years. This sex industry didn't just pop out of nowhere in the past 30 years and consumed us.

 

Already, little girls, middle schoolers, high schoolers... are sitting in classrooms all over the world, next to some grainy-eyed boy who's been up half the night checking out every kind of porn he can find on the internet. All that boy has to do is LIE to the prompt box which asks if he's 18, and he'll be viewing crap you couldn't even imagine back when you were his age.

 

Just a different way of getting information. That same kid would have borrowed his dad's playboys and penthouses if he didn't view porn online. It's upto the PARENT to monitor their child. I like how you can blame society for what is a parental role.

 

Its great that you and your wife find enjoyment in strippers and strip clubs. However I really doubt you are going to change my mind or anyone esle's mind with you crusdade to prove the strippers are wonderful people.

 

My goal is not to change your minds. My goal is for all of you to change your view about these strippers that they are some sort of 'demon', 'skank', 'whore', or a degrading component to our society. They are people, just like you and I.

 

What if your son brought home this beautiful, intelligent, loving woman. She's a doctor and has only your son's interest at heart. Then you learn that 10 years prior she was a stripper to pay her way through school and help feed her son.

 

Is she still a skank? Is she still a whore? How degrading is she to our society?

 

I would like to know where you people draw this line at. When is she 'OK' in your eyes?

 

To me there are four components to this discussion.

 

1. Dancers/Strippers are not the source of your relationship problems. They are not 'whores', 'skanks' or any other nasty comment that you can imagine. They are people just like us.

 

2. Trust/Respect: Trust your SO enough to allow them to goto these places. There's a much better chance they would cheat on you with a co-worker, opposite-sex friend, etc..

 

3. Insecurity: Don't let your own internal demons manifest itself into your relationship. Often insecure people's imagination will take over and dream up scenarios that are far worse than reality. If you learn to deal with this in the right manner you will live a happier life.

 

4. Hypocracy: Women who go out dressing sexy to go out on a night on the town, fully knowing (and don't play dumb here) that men will be looking at you and possibly trying to flirt will tell their husbands/bfs that it's 'disrespectful' for them to goto a strip club. If you get the attention from other men, then expect your man to have his attention go to another woman. Trust him as he would trust you dressing sexy, going out.

 

Like I said before I am getting tired of repeating myself. I really hope you all keep an open mind and at least try to talk to your SO about this discussion we've had. Get their view on things. And if they so happen to agree with me, then don't rake them over the coals for it.

[zeldazelda]

to me, there are just some things that don't belong in relationships...and some of those things are naked other people.

 

i don't see how it's a respect thing. i can't help how i look in my clothes, and i like the way my fiance looks at me in them. i don't care about other men--i have one already, that i care enough to look nice for. i am hardly dressed in a tawdry manor trying to attract attention from other men.

 

so even if other men are looking at me, i am not asking for it. men look at women dressed in lots of things. a man watching me from afar is not going to end up paying me to grind on him later. a man walking into another club to actively look, in many cases more, is another thing.

 

i don't get why a woman who dresses nicely must be seeking attention from other men, yet a naked stripper is always "just doing her job." come on now.

 

we can all agree that these seedy places are unnecessary, but every couple must decide for themselves what works and what doesn't. but let's not all fool ourselves that this is some kind of harmless fun and that men should be "respected" enough to take part. men wouldn't defend it so much if they didn't care about it, and they wouldn't care about it so much if they weren't getting something out of it. end of story.

 

(hey jmargel, i'm not picking on you, i appreciate the time it must have taken to write that.)

 

 

here's a thought...i wonder everyone would feel if these places were free, you just had to be a member....what do you guys think? does that change anything when it's not just a job? is it still just 'entertainment'? hmmm. i'm curious. maybe a new thread?

[jmargel]

Yours & my view differ on this. We get entertainment out of it, if you cross that boundary there then good chance that person was going to cross that boundary outside the strip club. I defend it, mainly because there are people here that are 'forbidding' their SO to goto one due to their own insecurity. If you are afraid that your SO is going to be doing something inapprporiately with a dancer (not just a lapdance) then you shouldn't be with that person anyway.

 

here's a thought...i wonder everyone would feel if these places were free, you just had to be a member....what do you guys think? does that change anything when it's not just a job? is it still just 'entertainment'? hmmm. i'm curious. maybe a new thread?

 

There is a swinger's club near me that you have to be a member of. $150 a year and not everyone gets in. Everytime I pass that place on a Friday or Sat. night it is "packed". I know a well-known doctor in my area that goes to it with his wife. So I doubt that would stop people from going. Another point I can make is that the divorce rate among swingers is alot less lower than non-swingers. Though I am not a swinger and not saying you should look into it, just stating a fact. I don't believe it has to do with the sex part, but the trust and security that keeps these couples together. That holds true for the strip club scene as well.

[zeldazelda]

Yours & my view differ on this. We get entertainment out of it, if you cross that boundary there then good chance that person was going to cross that boundary outside the strip club. I defend it, mainly because there are people here that are 'forbidding' their SO to goto one due to their own insecurity. If you are afraid that your SO is going to be doing something inapprporiately with a dancer (not just a lapdance) then you shouldn't be with that person anyway.

 

 

 

There is a swinger's club near me that you have to be a member of. $150 a year and not everyone gets in. Everytime I pass that place on a Friday or Sat. night it is "packed". I know a well-known doctor in my area that goes to it with his wife. So I doubt that would stop people from going. Another point I can make is that the divorce rate among swingers is alot less lower than non-swingers. Though I am not a swinger and not saying you should look into it, just stating a fact. I don't believe it has to do with the sex part, but the trust and security that keeps these couples together. That holds true for the strip club scene as well.

 

i think humans make mistakes, and that while some can be trusted, anyone can get themelves in a situation they didn't mean to, whether alcohol, or not is involved. i don't like when people say "i know i would never" because what follows is often fiction--sometimes you don't realize the things you would do until you've done them.

 

that being said, yes, if a guy is going to cheat, he might cheat outside of a strip club as well, yes, that's true, that's as true as the fact that anyone can start cheating at any time, club or not. my only problem with a club is, when trying to cultivate a relationship, and given human's ability to err, sometimes very easily, why put yourself in a situation that makes it even easier and is almost expected?

 

yes, i do think it is more likely for a man to cheat on a woman in a strip club than it is for him to end up shagging the cashier lady at the market. why? cause the cashier lady isn't putting it out there for him to take and tempting him with it, and it isn't expected to be accepted by society for a man to pay for a lapdance or sex from a cashier at a store.

 

we all talk about how it's fair for men to look and do whatever, because they just love women, all women, and they're visual and need variety to get off, and we're lucky they're not out there cheating on us, but yet, we are supposed to believe they are always gentlemen the presence of what they're always in search of...a hot woman they can think about screwing and maybe get some action from?

 

the rest of what you said, that's just charging differently.

 

i'm saying if these places were free.

 

if a couple goes to a club, that's a totally different issue than if one half goes while the other objects.

[Salicious Crumb]

There is a swinger's club near me that you have to be a member of. $150 a year and not everyone gets in. Everytime I pass that place on a Friday or Sat. night it is "packed". I know a well-known doctor in my area that goes to it with his wife. So I doubt that would stop people from going. Another point I can make is that the divorce rate among swingers is alot less lower than non-swingers. Though I am not a swinger and not saying you should look into it, just stating a fact. I don't believe it has to do with the sex part, but the trust and security that keeps these couples together.

 

No..what keeps these "couples" together is they don't give a rats ass that they both f#ck other people...if thats what they want to do....fine..they can do it.

 

too many times I hear the stories of a swinging couple...one of the partners has sex with someone they don't approve of and they get all jealous....and I just have to laugh....tough shi!t...your swingers...take your medicine.

[Salicious Crumb]

i think humans make mistakes, and that while some can be trusted, anyone can get themelves in a situation they didn't mean to, whether alcohol, or not is involved. i don't like when people say "i know i would never" because what follows is often fiction--sometimes you don't realize the things you would do until you've done them..

 

some of us just have a stonger constitution than others.

 

If you are weak and this could happen to you...hey ...sorry.

 

For some of the rest of us, its different.

[zeldazelda]

some of us just have a stonger constitution than others.

 

If you are weak and this could happen to you...hey ...sorry.

 

For some of the rest of us, its different.

 

please read the rest of my post. i'm not talking about myself or you, or anyone in this instance. i am talking about other humans than myself. and it isn't always weakness.

 

in other words, i may say i know i wouldn't do something and be trusted not to, and i don't do it. but do i know someone ELSE has the same convictions and can be trusted like i can? no, i do not.

 

i'm not the enemy, you obviously didn't understand what i was getting at.

 

 

 

in any case, i wanted to add this to my last post...no one should demand anything of the other. so i won't demand that he (anyone i date) not go to a club. but if i don't seem thrilled about it, and all you do is try to convince me, all i am going to think is "wow, there must really be a reason for him to want to go to keep coming up with reasons, excuses, and explanations, knowing that he is making me upset and that he will not get laid by me tonight afterward."

 

i guess i just wonder when "respecting a man's right" to view/use other naked females becomes more important than the relationship he's risking. to me, that relationship is pretty much over, in that contest.

[Salicious Crumb]

please read the rest of my post. i'm not talking about myself or you, or anyone in this instance. i am talking about other humans than myself. and it isn't always weakness.

 

Let me clarify...when I said, "if YOU are weak" I meant people in general.

 

But you did say ANYONE can get themselves in a situation(meaning cheating or whatnot)...and I was just telling you...wrong.

 

in other words, i may say i know i wouldn't do something and be trusted not to, and i don't do it. but do i know someone ELSE has the same convictions and can be trusted like i can? no, i do not.

 

So when you said "anyone" you meant everyone in the world except yourself?

 

i guess i just wonder when "respecting a man's right" to view/use other naked females becomes more important than the relationship he's risking. to me, that relationship is pretty much over, in that contest.

 

Thats when some men need to be shown the door. They can cry in their beer all they want that they lost someone dear to them later on...but if they love to watch other women take off their clothes...I doubt they could care less. They sure as hell could have cared less about their wives/girlfriends feelings in the first place....therefore..they don't care about them period.

[Ladyjane14]

...Putting limitations on your husband/bf and trying to justify it by saying its not 'respectful' to goto one is BS....

 

...it's about trust and it's about respect. Respect the husband/bf enough to let him go freely and trust him in those places. If a woman has insecurity issues then that's her problem, not his....

 

You continue to minimize other people's beliefs on this subject. Countless posters have weighed in and said..."No this is not okay for me, and here's the reason WHY".

 

But you're soooo steadfast in your personal belief that they shouldn't have a legitimate problem with it that you continue to ignore the FACT that they do. This is not yours to call bullsh*t on. THAT's the point.

 

You can make a blanket statement for other people that 'it's all about trust' and 'all about insecurities.... but that won't make it true.

 

...Has everything to do with boosting your own self-ego knowing you dress up with the notion of men looking at you but then in the same sentence you are telling your man he can't go out to see strippers. Women dress up to get noticed, plain and simple. Just like when they get face-lifts, tummy tucks, boob-jobs....

 

...I would think given the option most women would prefer to be looked at by other men, then not looked at, at all. So I can't believe women would feel 'gross' by just having men look at you. If that's the case then you have some serious issues. ...

 

These are just more assumptions on your part. I've already tried to explain to you that women don't dress themselves, even when they dress "sexy", just so RANDOM MEN can ogle them. It's more complicated than that.

 

I'll be honest. I see this assumption as misogynistic, shallow, and short-sighted. As if we women are all so vapid that the only thing we care about is some encouraging goon to look at our tits. You assume that ALL women want to have strange men look at them... like it's some kind of honor or something.

 

News flash for ya... There are ALOT of creeps out there. And just because a woman dresses nice, doesn't mean she WANTS them. It doesn't even mean she WANTS their attention.

 

My ex-fiancee was alot like you women here. Controlling and used guilt and everything else under the sun to steer me on what I can and can't do. You women who do this, are selfish.

 

Painted us all with one brush again, didn't you? You know, I think maybe you're not as open minded and PC as you think you are.

 

Like I said alot of these doctors, lawyers, teachers were dancers.. It's how they paid their way through school and survived. Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

 

Again... painted with one brush. FYI, I grew up so poor we didn't always have indoor plumbing. And somehow, I never had to take my clothes off for cash. Go figure.

 

Yep, blame the sex industry for our degrading effect on society.

 

Thanks for your permission.

But I was going to do that anyway... 'cause I have a right to have my own opinion.

 

Just a different way of getting information. That same kid would have borrowed his dad's playboys and penthouses if he didn't view porn online. It's upto the PARENT to monitor their child. I like how you can blame society for what is a parental role.

 

Just a way to get the WRONG information.

 

Our society is a child's village. A parent can monitor all they like, but they can't control what "the village" is teaching. They can TRY to counter negative messages, but it's hit and miss. Parents come in all packages.... good ones, bad ones, caring ones, indifferent ones. And each comes with his own belief system in our free society to be passed on to his offspring.

 

So... childless though you are at this time, SOMEDAY, you... like the rest of us... might be sharing your child with "the village". And I'm thinking that maybe that overly-sexualized teen sitting next to your daughter in class, viewing her as a sexual commodity, is going to be more of a concern to you.

 

Again... you minimize.

 

What if your son brought home this beautiful, intelligent, loving woman. She's a doctor and has only your son's interest at heart. Then you learn that 10 years prior she was a stripper to pay her way through school and help feed her son.

 

Lord willing and the creek don't rise, my son will also view the sex industry as disrespectful to women and a drain on our society. ...And hopefully, he'll already have sense enough to avoid girls with poor judgment.

 

But... my attitude in that scenario would take into account her current view. And if she, like you, believed that 'sex for money' was okay, we'd have a problem. When my son's grown, he'll do as he pleases and he'll do it with or without my approval. I'm not so PC though that I'd be willing to edit my beliefs. So, yeah. He'd get an earful of my opinion. So would she if she stuck around long enough.

Moms don't clam up, just because a kid reaches adulthood, you know.

 

1. Dancers/Strippers are not the source of your relationship problems. They are not 'whores', 'skanks' or any other nasty comment that you can imagine. They are people just like us.

 

2. Trust/Respect: Trust your SO enough to allow them to goto these places. There's a much better chance they would cheat on you with a co-worker, opposite-sex friend, etc..

 

3. Insecurity: Don't let your own internal demons manifest itself into your relationship. Often insecure people's imagination will take over and dream up scenarios that are far worse than reality. If you learn to deal with this in the right manner you will live a happier life.

 

4. Hypocracy: Women who go out dressing sexy to go out on a night on the town, fully knowing (and don't play dumb here) that men will be looking at you and possibly trying to flirt will tell their husbands/bfs that it's 'disrespectful' for them to goto a strip club. If you get the attention from other men, then expect your man to have his attention go to another woman. Trust him as he would trust you dressing sexy, going out.

 

These are all your personal opinions and assumptions. But you've got them dressed up like 'Mandates for the Ignorant and Unwashed Masses'.

Seems to me that maybe 'us all' aren't the ones having trouble keeping an "open mind".

[Ladyjane14]

to me, there are just some things that don't belong in relationships...and some of those things are naked other people.

 

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think that's the QUOTE OF THE DAY!

[a4a]

:lmao: I keep my H out of strip clubs!!! :lmao:

 

My own H refused to go with a bunch of friends with me on a fluke of a night when we were out having a bit too much fun.

 

Yep it is my insecurity and hate of strippers that keeps him out of those places...

 

Quote from my H on this subject just minutes ago " guys that feel the need to go (sc's) obviously have issues and are nothing but walking ATM machines. I would not get near one of those things (stippers), even if she paid me"

 

:lmao: :lmao:

 

Yep my insecurity!!! :lmao: :lmao:

 

Yeah and the vet came by, I got all tarted up in my stained jean, rubber green barn shoes, and my hair sticking straight up.... I was hopin' he would sex me up! :lmao: