I didn't get a transfer

[spookie]

Instead, the HR woman gave me a "coaching" session on how to be more professional in the future, and attempted for us to have a nice chat regarding what I was thinking.

 

I stared her down.

 

Apparently, a month later it's not ok I went to him.

 

I'm so pissed it took so long to tell me this but attempting not to let it derail me. Yes, there went my only possibility for happiness in the short-term; but the long-term's still alright.

[wuggle]

Have you heard anything from Jack ? what does he think ?

[imani]

Sorry to hear that. But he isn't the begining nor the end of your happiness. Only you have a say in that. You'll move on. We all do.

 

Also, now even more so you need to kick ass at this job and show them you are not some office Tart.

 

Isolde gave you some very good advice on your other thread that may help. I'm moving it here...

 

Originally Posted by Isolde

By channeling your energy from this into something else.

By not caring.

 

Or some combination thereof.

 

You have to want it to end. You have to want YOURSELF to be the one to end it. Or it's not gonna work.

But if you get to that point--you'll be open to life.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Oh, gees. Ugh - don't let it get you down, spooks. I agree with the focus your energy somewhere else advice. Find something else to put your time and attention into - something that doesn't involve men at all.

[Alpha Female]

Spookie - some professional advice that wasn't taken the first time, but I'll attempt this again?

 

At the best case, you are now viewed as a lame duck at work, with zero promotability options. This is the best you can hope for now, as this would mean you still have a job.

 

Worst case, they will start the campaign to fire you. Rest assured this whole incident has been written up and placed in your file for the paper trail.

 

I would suspect right now they are watching you very carefully for any further signs of emotional instability. I suggest you keep yourself very clean at work. Potentially, if you don't act up again, you can ride this out and they will forget about you. But, don't think this means they won't forget about what happened.

 

Best advice? Start job hunting. It will be easier for you to get a new job without having someone check your references at this place. If they release you, then you would either have to remove this from your resume, or assume that all future employers will find out about this.

 

I know you said you felt this was the right thing to do and you had no regrets, but this just isn't how the workplace works. People are not encouraged to unburden their obsessions freely.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Ok, Spookie, you can use this as a learning experience.

 

It's time to stop indulging yourself with fantasies about Jack at work.

 

You CAN change the way you think about this, and for your sanity, as well as your professional life, it is best you do so.

 

Seeing him every day will give you the chance to learn how to manage these thoughts. Think of this as an opportunity to grow, not as punishment.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think AlphaFemale is right. Your possibilities of moving up in this company have shrunk. Learn what you can by being there, and start making your escape plan while it is on YOUR terms.

 

You can always use people at the company who you trust to give you a good reference. My friend got fired recently and she gave two references of people who she knew wouldn't say bad things about her. The new job called those people, she got the references she wanted, and now has a new job. And if you were wondering, she is in management, not on the ground floor.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree that this is a learning experience. I totally disagree with the cruelty displayed in this thread.

 

spook, play up your youth/first job/inexperience with relationships. Continue showing them what you can do, including how you've given your head a shake and realize how silly the entire thing was, regardless if you're still hung up on Jack.

 

Also, go talk to the HR woman in about a month and thank her for her "coaching" session and how it made a difference to your thinking and helped you get back on track. Do tell her that this was your first major crush, etc., thus playing up the naiveté.

 

This is only if you want to keep this job. It's a good one, in a decent company, in a bad economy. Don't burn your bridges.

[Touche]

If they release you, then you would either have to remove this from your resume, or assume that all future employers will find out about this.

 

Don't assume anything of the kind, spook. Employers will now in most cases, only release dates of employment and salary. They're too scared they'll get sued.

 

It's highly unlikely that that info will come out when a future employer checks your references.

 

Otherwise, you got some pretty good advice from the others.

[Alpha Female]

Don't assume anything of the kind, spook. Employers will now in most cases, only release dates of employment and salary. They're too scared they'll get sued.

 

It's highly unlikely that that info will come out when a future employer checks your references.

 

Otherwise, you got some pretty good advice from the others.

 

Sadly, this isn't true Touche. I know many employees believe they are safe from bad references, but they are not in reality.

 

If Spookie gets fired, then her employer has every right and obligation to provide facts on why she was terminated to a future employer. Providing facts of termination does not open anyone up to law suits - that only comes into play with someone gets personal. Even if she quit, her employer is still allowed to be honest about her performance. It's just a fine line about not being personal about it.

 

That's why I suggested she find a new job now, as a new employer will not check references while she is employed. She can use prior employers for her reference check.

 

And Spookie - most definitely do not go back into HR and play up your professional naivitie, as suggested. It will only make a bad situation far worse.

[Touche]

Well maybe it's different in your area but in my state it's very, very rare that an employer will comment on performance. I've made hundreds of reference calls in my time and I can only remember a handful who would do it. And they were nervous about it too.

 

In spook's situation, especially if they like her, I see no reason why they'd actually give the details. And they've acknowledged that her performance has been solid. So I'm really not sure where you're coming from with all of this.

 

It totally contradicts my own experience which is why I'm wondering if maybe this kind of thing varies by area.

[Trialbyfire]

Let's pretend they do, which most won't. How does one get a job based on this type of reputation? If spook had plenty of other references within the same field, I agree that she should take her chances and go elsewhere. As it stands, she's got her stripper references so why not repair the damage first, before looking elsewhere in the worst economy in three generations?

 

Also, HR at spookie's place, doesn't have complete insight into how she's feeling and what's been happening over a number of threads. There are some unrealistic assumptions being made about HRs all-seeing, all-knowing powerful position. HR has a role but is only a cog, not god.

[JamesM]

I agree that this is a learning experience. I totally disagree with the cruelty displayed in this thread.

 

 

It is a learning experience, but the information presented IMO was not done cruelly but realistically. It is reality now that spookie has been put in a different category of workers. Where it will lead..who knows. It is entirely possible that when this story was passed on to other departments, no one wanted an employee who had an emotional connection to their past boss. As a manager, I know that if I was told "We have someone we want to transfer to you and BTW, she had a crush on her last boss," then I would be inclined to think "Do I want a part of this?"

 

Don't assume anything of the kind, spook. Employers will now in most cases, only release dates of employment and salary. They're too scared they'll get sued.

 

It's highly unlikely that that info will come out when a future employer checks your references.

 

Based on my couple of decades of managerial experience, this is true. It is rare that anything other than the above is told. If any information is given beyond that, then it is good information. However, a question is asked quite often: "Would you rehire him/her?" How this is answered determines whether a person was good or not.

 

Having said that, when receiving references from previous employers, one listens carefully to tone of voice and exact wording to questions to determine if something may be unsaid that should be known. Prospective employers will shy away from a reference that appears to be hiding a negative.

 

Sadly, this isn't true Touche. I know many employees believe they are safe from bad references, but they are not in reality.

 

If Spookie gets fired, then her employer has every right and obligation to provide facts on why she was terminated to a future employer. Providing facts of termination does not open anyone up to law suits - that only comes into play with someone gets personal.

 

Yes and no. It has been true for me unless I knew the person calling me on a level that I could trust to keep information given confidential. I remember getting a reference call for an employee who sued us (and lost). Was I about to bring that up? No.

 

Providing "facts" is a gray area that many employers do not want to enter. Even if a company wins the lawsuit, the publicity is never good.

 

In my area, it is extremely rare for someone to give out even the "facts" unless these facts can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with documentation.

 

Spookie, my recommendation to you would be to do everything in your power to be a model employee for awhile to let this blow over. Then after some time when it appears that your professional skills have caused this affair to fade a bit, you could begin looking for another job. Then your reference and past will not be such a priority in the minds of your employer. Time will either confirm this anomaly or make it something to be concerned about in their mind. If they view it as a simple admission that is not part of your normal attitude, then your skills and abilities will override the concern about an unstable employee.

 

While this may sound harsh, the best thing to do is to assume the worst case scenario and prepare for it.

[Trialbyfire]

It is a learning experience, but the information presented IMO was not done cruelly but realistically. It is reality now that spookie has been put in a different category of workers. Where it will lead..who knows. It is entirely possible that when this story was passed on to other departments, no one wanted an employee who had an emotional connection to their past boss. As a manager, I know that if I was told "We have someone we want to transfer to you and BTW, she had a crush on her last boss," then I would be inclined to think "Do I want a part of this?"

As usual James, you and I need to agree to disagree. Kicking spookie with spiked boots when she's down, isn't the way to help her. Tough love v. deliberate cruelty, are two different things.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Let's not forget that Spookie is in her early 20's. Many of us make mistakes in our youth due to inexperience. Spooks, your career will be long and this will be but a minor footnote in the long run.

[anne1707]

Spookie, my recommendation to you would be to do everything in your power to be a model employee for awhile to let this blow over. Then after some time when it appears that your professional skills have caused this affair to fade a bit, you could begin looking for another job. Then your reference and past will not be such a priority in the minds of your employer. Time will either confirm this anomaly or make it something to be concerned about in their mind. If they view it as a simple admission that is not part of your normal attitude, then your skills and abilities will override the concern about an unstable employee.

 

Spookie

 

I think this is excellent advice - James is speaking real sense here. You are young and you have made a mistake (as many of us have at work) but you can get through this. Show them that you can do your job and be a good employee. In time, less emphasis will be placed on what has happened in recent weeks. Then would be a good time to start looking for another job because it should mean your references stand much more chance of being positive and not include anything about this crush.

[Trialbyfire]

Let's not forget that Spookie is in her early 20's. Many of us make mistakes in our youth due to inexperience. Spooks, your career will be long and this will be but a minor footnote in the long run.

I can only give my own personal experiences in management and youthful folly was taken into account, as long as they took responsibility for their negatively perceived actions and showed some form of understanding.

 

Management aren't always inhuman, looking for the conspiracy theory in everything. It's up to the employee to move themselves from the liability to the asset column, within reason.

[wuggle]

Kicking spookie with spiked boots when she's down, isn't the way to help her. Tough love v. deliberate cruelty, are two different things.

 

Jeez...talk about twisting things round, where was James 'kicking Spookie with spiked boots' ???? if anything his was the tough love as I think he was actually trying to do what several people have with spookie which is to make her see the world for what is is and not wallow in the self obsessive state she has herself in, this is tougher than just saying "be yourself Spookie, dont listen to them".

[Isolde]

I feel for you, Spookie. I'm your age, and I'm also struggling to transition from the intensity of the college years into the "real world." Sometimes I feel like I am expected to be a robot. I haven't done anything inappropriate but sometimes I feel like I just plain show more emotion than everyone else! I've also had a major dry spell. I am not crushing on anyone though... at least not on anyone I see around on a daily basis. And I've become good at hiding my crushes if only because I fear rejection from most guys.

 

Actually, this story has taught me never to mix work and romance, barring extraordinary circumstances, I guess. It's a lesson for all of us--not just you. I don't think anyone means to single you out or make you look stupid.

 

I really hope you meet someone soon who can take all this worry away. But first, you need to make sure you keep this job.

[Trialbyfire]

Jeez...talk about twisting things round, where was James 'kicking Spookie with spiked boots' ???? if anything his was the tough love as I think he was actually trying to do what several people have with spookie which is to make her see the world for what is is and not wallow in the self obsessive state she has herself in, this is tougher than just saying "be yourself Spookie, dont listen to them".

I never said that James was kicking spookie when she's down...speaking of twisting things around.

[wuggle]

I never said that James was kicking spookie when she's down...speaking of twisting things around.

 

Are we living on seperate planets, I was quoting you ?????

 

Either you were speaking of James or AlphaFemale when you said "'kicking Spookie with spiked boots' which was it ??

[Alpha Female]

It is a learning experience, but the information presented IMO was not done cruelly but realistically. It is reality now that spookie has been put in a different category of workers. Where it will lead..who knows. It is entirely possible that when this story was passed on to other departments, no one wanted an employee who had an emotional connection to their past boss. As a manager, I know that if I was told "We have someone we want to transfer to you and BTW, she had a crush on her last boss," then I would be inclined to think "Do I want a part of this?"

 

 

 

Based on my couple of decades of managerial experience, this is true. It is rare that anything other than the above is told. If any information is given beyond that, then it is good information. However, a question is asked quite often: "Would you rehire him/her?" How this is answered determines whether a person was good or not.

 

Having said that, when receiving references from previous employers, one listens carefully to tone of voice and exact wording to questions to determine if something may be unsaid that should be known. Prospective employers will shy away from a reference that appears to be hiding a negative.

 

 

 

Yes and no. It has been true for me unless I knew the person calling me on a level that I could trust to keep information given confidential. I remember getting a reference call for an employee who sued us (and lost). Was I about to bring that up? No.

 

Providing "facts" is a gray area that many employers do not want to enter. Even if a company wins the lawsuit, the publicity is never good.

 

In my area, it is extremely rare for someone to give out even the "facts" unless these facts can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with documentation.

 

Spookie, my recommendation to you would be to do everything in your power to be a model employee for awhile to let this blow over. Then after some time when it appears that your professional skills have caused this affair to fade a bit, you could begin looking for another job. Then your reference and past will not be such a priority in the minds of your employer. Time will either confirm this anomaly or make it something to be concerned about in their mind. If they view it as a simple admission that is not part of your normal attitude, then your skills and abilities will override the concern about an unstable employee.

 

While this may sound harsh, the best thing to do is to assume the worst case scenario and prepare for it.

 

For example, if the employee was terminated with cause such as theft, violence, etc., then the employer is well within their legal boundaries to be honest.

 

Generally though, employees know who will, and won't, give them a good reference, and plan accordingly. It isn't very common that HR gets legitimate reference calls beyond someone confirming dates and salary.

 

That being said, it would not put her company in jeopardy if HR, or Jack, or Jack's boss told the truth of her separation with the company.

 

Everything else you said I agree with. People said you and I were being harsh the first time around when everyone was supporting her unloading her obsession to Jack, and yet again, I don't think people really understand the gravity of the situation, even when everything we both predicted has already come to pass.

 

Cherry: yes, she is young, but the kind of mistakes you dismiss from staff are when they get too drunk at the office holiday party. Beyond that, age is not an excuse for a lack of professionalism. Understand that this wasn't a situation in which she was dressing inappropriately or had a personal hygiene issue that needed to addressed and can improve. This was something for more damaging.

[Isolde]

For example, if the employee was terminated with cause such as theft, violence, etc., then the employer is well within their legal boundaries to be honest.

 

Generally though, employees know who will, and won't, give them a good reference, and plan accordingly. It isn't very common that HR gets legitimate reference calls beyond someone confirming dates and salary.

 

That being said, it would not put her company in jeopardy if HR, or Jack, or Jack's boss told the truth of her separation with the company.

 

Everything else you said I agree with. People said you and I were being harsh the first time around when everyone was supporting her unloading her obsession to Jack, and yet again, I don't think people really understand the gravity of the situation, even when everything we both predicted has already come to pass.

 

Cherry: yes, she is young, but the kind of mistakes you dismiss from staff are when they get too drunk at the office holiday party. Beyond that, age is not an excuse for a lack of professionalism. Understand that this wasn't a situation in which she was dressing inappropriately or had a personal hygiene issue that needed to addressed and can improve. This was something for more damaging.

 

How is it damaging, though? She was honest and said it affected her productivity.

[JamesM]

Are we living on seperate planets, I was quoting you ?????

 

Either you were speaking of James or AlphaFemale when you said "'kicking Spookie with spiked boots' which was it ??

 

Actually, in defense of TBF, she was not saying it about me, I don't think. She disagreed with me, but I think her cruelty remark was to the previous poster(s). And I disagreed with her in that I did not find the posts cruel but realistic.

[Isolde]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm seeing implications that "emotional censorship" is OK, and that's really disturbing to me.

 

On the one hand people say that confessing her crush which hampered her work was a bad thing. On the other people say that just having the crush at all was wrong.

 

I'm not defending Spookie without qualification, but this is just unfair.

[Star Gazer]

If Spookie gets fired, then her employer has every right and obligation to provide facts on why she was terminated to a future employer. Providing facts of termination does not open anyone up to law suits - that only comes into play with someone gets personal.

 

This is absolutely not true in MOST jurisdictions in the US.

 

This is why most employers will not go any farther than answering, "Would you hire him/her again?"

 

That's why I suggested she find a new job now, as a new employer will not check references while she is employed. She can use prior employers for her reference check.

 

This is true. When there are gaps in employment (if she were to get fired) the implication of why you left is obvious. And Spookie cannot lie and say she was laid off or voluntarily quit, as they CAN verify her own representations.

 

And Spookie - most definitely do not go back into HR and play up your professional naivitie, as suggested. It will only make a bad situation far worse.

 

I agree with this as well.

 

Spookie, we can all try to hang you for previous actions, but your focus now needs to be on what you should be doing to save your hide from this point forward. You need to rebuild your reputation, and start the process NOW. Thus, you really need to start looking for a new job right now.

 

I totally agree that your employer now likely sees you as unpromotable and troublesome. This is likely why you didn't get a transfer - they see it as a reward, one you're not entitled to given the circumstances.

 

Also, a smart employer would be documenting every single thing you do and say. They very well may be building a personnel file so clean and tight that the moment you do something wrong or act up again that they'll have solid, legitimate reasons to terminate you.

 

Thus, as I see it, you have two options: (1) be an absolute angel for quite a while and ride out the storm, or (2) find a new job ASAP. I think you're self-aware enough to know that it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to be PERFECT for the next 6-months to a year, so I really think (2) is your better option.