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why is the love less valued?


heavenlytomorrow

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heavenlytomorrow

this is not a criticism, just an observation... Why is it that when two people meet, fall in love and get married everyone says it's so lovely/wonderful etc(even if both people have had many previous relationships) and yet when two people meet and have an affair then then even though they love each other the relationship is less valued on this site? Eg, usual comments are, the relationship is not real/the individuals must be lacking something within themselves/ the people involved are 'terrible' to have fallen in love etc. You would not dream of saying this normally when people fall inlove. I realise the pain and deveststion it can cause but most of us cannot help the fact we have fallen in love with someone who is not our husband/wife. Maybe the marriage wasn't right or the people in in grew apart. Why are we punished for our feelings? Has anyone out there left their husband or wife for their lover and are now happily together?

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Well, I personally believe that Human beings are not programmed or designed to be faithful. Very few mammals are. In fact, it's rarer to find a mammal that is completely faithful to one partner, than not. (this has been discussed elsewhere, so I'm not going to elaborate.)

 

That said - we as humans have created social customs, Laws, rules, regulations, guidelines, morals and ethics which we use to bind us, and govern our society. A vast proportion of these are intitally based on religion, but some fundamental social interactive rules & skills also help to stabilise our reasoning.

 

And if we decide to adhere to those rules, if we make promises, if we create and recite vows - then we should abide by them.

If we can't keep them, we shouldn't use them.

If we find we need or want to break them, then we should deal with them openly and without resorting to subterfuge, deceit and covert actions.

 

THAT's what most people object to.

Not the 'falling in love' but the way people behave.

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I think the love is less valued because the circumstances are not usually "normal". The affair began under the veil of secrecy which often lends itself to excitment that may not be real once that secreacy is no longer there. Normal life is about the normal daily occurances - if the affair has none of the normal daily occurances then it is false and not based in reality. Is that real? Can the love survive the real trials and tribulations that exist in adulthood?

 

Also - if an adult is that unhappy in his/her marriage then he/she should do the respectful / decent thing for the other human being and give them the same opportunity to find real love - NOT hold them captive in a relationship that is not real and is full of lies.

 

The affair is usually FULL of lying to a human being who will be sooooo hurt by the betrayal, lies and deceit.

 

Do you think any of the above should be condoned? Should it be respected? Would you want to live on the other side of the situation? Do you want to be treated like that?

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Several questions and thoughts that you've posted...

 

First off...why is an affair "less valued" on this site?- Simple...the majority of the posters here have been HURT, and TRAUMATIZED by a cheating spouse. Additionally, affairs are relationships that are created in the dark, on the bases of lies and deception. Its unrealistic to expect people to embrace a relationship that has its roots in deliberately deceiving someone...to their tremendous emotional devestation as a result. Think about it.

 

There's nothing wrong with a relationship that isn't rooted in deception...and not founded in the sheer emotional destruction of at least one other party...often many others.

 

Expecting people to openly embrace a situation that clearly comes at this level of traumatization to someone else is foolish.

 

BTW...we CAN decide who we fall in love with. Very easily. We do it by learning to recognize when we're attracted to another person...and then CHOOSING to feed that relationship or not. EVERY affair has a point in it in which there is a CONSCIOUS decision to keep feeding the relationship even when you KNOW that its leading to heartache and pain for your spouse.

 

I've been married 21 years. I've been emotionally and physically attracted to many other women over those years...everyone goes through that. But...the reason I never cheated is because I never ALLOWED that attraction to grow...I never fed that relationship. I deliberately AVOIDED allowing that situation to grow out of hand.

 

Love is a CHOICE.

 

Its when we ALLOW ourselves that "grey thinking"...when we convince ourselves that it was something we "couldn't help"...that we set the stage to hurt those around us.

 

Developing boundaries that protect our marriage, protect ourselves from going "too far" with an attraction to someone else...that's part of our responsibilties when we choose to marry.

 

And...accepting the responsibility for the CHOICE to cheat on a spouse is the first TRUE step towards recovery.

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I suppose love is love and should always be celebrated is one way to look at it. But affairs are secret so there is no one to congratulate you. Have you told your family and friends? If so, are they happy for you?

 

I think most people in affairs work hard to make sure that their families, friends, co-workers etc NOT find out they are in love with their affair partner. They keep it a secret. If they thought it was ok, why would they keep it a secret? If someone was ok with their relationship amd announced it, I would respect their decision and be happy they were happy.

 

Affairs are frowned on for the same reason the people in it act ashamed and hide it.

 

If a MM loved me I would not want him to hide it. That would mean I had less value. at least to him.

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You're suggesting that people can't control themselves. If so, why isn't everyone rutting in the street, with people they're attracted to?

 

Even in a relationship that isn't based on pain, manipulation, deception, lies or lies by omission, love is never enough for a viable long-term relationship.

 

I don't know who you are OP or from what perspective you come from aka which affair partner but if you believe it's okay to gain happiness at the expense of others, you'll have to forgive me if I don't hop on to that happy wagon.

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heavenlytomorrow

thankyou for the replies. You are correct of course. Unfortunately I think it is very hard to know what to do when you feel your marriage is on the rocks and you do not want to end it as you have children etc and yet you may be giving up the chance of real happiness with another person. So the affair begins to see if the om/ow really is the love of your life or do you need that wake up call to make you realize the love of your life is the one you come home to? I'm ashamed to say that like many I was a coward and kept my'options open'. I did not believe that my marriage was bad enough to split my family up, I have two children, however, the person with whom I had the affair made me feel alive and I loved him totally. Sadly, people who have affairs can only see themselves. They are selfish, and do not realize what they are doing to the other person. It's so complicated. I am not a bad person but I know I've done a bad thing and have to live with what I have done forever.

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heavenlytomorrow
You're suggesting that people can't control themselves. If so, why isn't everyone rutting in the street, with people they're attracted to?

 

Even in a relationship that isn't based on pain, manipulation, deception, lies or lies by omission, love is never enough for a viable long-term relationship.

 

I don't know who you are OP or from what perspective you come from aka which affair partner but if you believe it's okay to gain happiness at the expense of others, you'll have to forgive me if I don't hop on to that happy wagon.

 

I wasn't expecting anyone to be 'happy' just confused that they say things like, there must be something missing within that person that they are looking for that was all. Sorry it came across that way.

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there must be something missing within that person that they are looking for that was all.
Do you feel that having an affair, at the expense of your spouse is how everyone copes with an unhappy or dissatisfied time in their marriage or even in their relationships?
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thankyou for the replies. You are correct of course. Unfortunately I think it is very hard to know what to do when you feel your marriage is on the rocks and you do not want to end it as you have children etc and yet you may be giving up the chance of real happiness with another person. So the affair begins to see if the om/ow really is the love of your life or do you need that wake up call to make you realize the love of your life is the one you come home to? I'm ashamed to say that like many I was a coward and kept my'options open'. I did not believe that my marriage was bad enough to split my family up, I have two children, however, the person with whom I had the affair made me feel alive and I loved him totally. Sadly, people who have affairs can only see themselves. They are selfish, and do not realize what they are doing to the other person. It's so complicated. I am not a bad person but I know I've done a bad thing and have to live with what I have done forever.

 

What are you doing to recapture that which made you marry in the first place? Have you talked with your H about your feelings? Gone to MC to discuss the state of your M?

 

So far, you have only indicated behaviors which destroy marriages and families. If it's not so bad and you still cheat - what does that say about you?

 

So why? Why did you think an A was the answer to the problem? How is an A the "answer"? And what was "the problem" to begin with?

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this is not a criticism, just an observation... Why is it that when two people meet, fall in love and get married everyone says it's so lovely/wonderful ?

 

How can everyone say it's lovely and wonderful when they can't or aren't even supposed to know about it? LOL

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IfWishesWereHorses

I realise the pain and deveststion it can cause but most of us cannot help the fact we have fallen in love with someone who is not our husband/wife.

 

Ofcourse you can help that fact. Truth is, it is worth it to YOU to expose your family to that trauma. You're making the choice that you "falling in love" is worth their pain and devistation... because you can't help it???? Do you also expose them to danger, physical or psychological, each day because of your feelings and emotions as they are related to other things? How do you feel about people who do that? What might be lacking in them that they can justify hurting the people they claim to love because of a "feeling"?

 

That, IMO, is why some believe that there must be something amiss in that person. Is love the only justifiable "feeling" for hurting the ones that you love, or are their other feelings that can justify them.

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Nothing earth shatteringly new from me. I think that it is the apin it causes the BS that people find most abhorent. It's so needless and cowardly.

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showmethemoney

One thing you have to realize is that the OP doesn't have to deal with any of tough issues that most married couples go through. If your in a bad mood they just don't have to see you that day. A husband/wife has no choice they have to deal with it. The OP doesn't have to deal with the issues and strains children will put on a marriage because thats your children not theirs. If they have children then time spent with you means they are denying their own children of that time (food for thought). They don't have to deal with finances or families either because thats your problem and nobody knows about them anyway. Thats why so many of these relationships fail! Once the OP has to deal with these issues like a husband or wife, they go running for the hills.

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Do you feel that having an affair, at the expense of your spouse is how everyone copes with an unhappy or dissatisfied time in their marriage or even in their relationships?

 

This ? gets to the heart of the matter. Seems some folks do assume this is a normal, healthy way tp problem solve. So, they are confused when someone points out they may be lacking in problem solving skills, communication skills, or a simple sense of fair play.

The deficiency is obvious to folks that have different values. The very fact that the poster poses this question indicates a different set of values.

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This ? gets to the heart of the matter. Seems some folks do assume this is a normal, healthy way tp problem solve. So, they are confused when someone points out they may be lacking in problem solving skills, communication skills, or a simple sense of fair play.

The deficiency is obvious to folks that have different values. The very fact that the poster poses this question indicates a different set of values.

It seems so fundamental to me, human decency and fairplay. You have to wonder how the OP and others who have cheated, would feel if the shoe were on the other foot. Most definitely, I don't suggest or enable a revenge affair. Just questioning the status quo.

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I think that is one of the toughest things about being betrayed. You find out that your partner really was not who he or she claimed to be. He or she has completely different values than portrayed in courtship.

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this is not a criticism, just an observation... Why is it that when two people meet, fall in love and get married everyone says it's so lovely/wonderful etc(even if both people have had many previous relationships) and yet when two people meet and have an affair then then even though they love each other the relationship is less valued on this site?

 

 

In general people hold things attained through malicious means to a lower standard than those attained through benign means.

 

Let's say you know two people who both started their own business in the same field and both went on to have great success. The first person did this the old fashioned way, through grit, determination, loyalty, talent and hard work. The second person did this by crossing the lines of what most of us consider ethical. They doubled crossed the partners they started the business with, they lied, cheated and did everything possible to get to the top. Even at the expense of other people (some of whom were their friends and business partners). Now out of those two businesses which is the average person going to have a more favorable view of?

 

Relationships are no different. If you know two happys couples....

 

The first couple fell in love when both were single and available and now have a loving relationship that was founded and built on trust.

 

The second couple however was founded on lies and betrayal. They came together by cheating on their spouses (or perhaps just one of them was in a relationship). They both (or as I said - just one) destroyed their families life and trust out of selfish need and lust. That instead of working on the issues in the relationship and focusing on their spouse they took the quick and easy path. The path of least resistance. As with the second business they took the easy immoral (and by immoral I don't mean from a religious perspective, I mean an ethical perspective) path to happiness and they destroyed others in the process (some of whom they claimed to love). And as is with the business example - I think it's easy to understand why more people would have a favorable view of the first couple versus the second.

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the individuals must be lacking something within themselves

You've gotten much feedback on the relationship values you brought up but I wanted to specifically address this as I do believe that an OM/OW lacks, at the minimum, self-esteem. Why else would they feel that the shadow life they're forced to live is what they deserve? Why would they put up with watching their lover walk out the door and into the home and bed of another? Why would they deprive themselves of the affirmation of friends and family?

 

An emotionally grounded person would not put themselves in that position. Just my opinion...

 

Mr. Lucky

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You've gotten much feedback on the relationship values you brought up but I wanted to specifically address this as I do believe that an OM/OW lacks, at the minimum, self-esteem. Why else would they feel that the shadow life they're forced to live is what they deserve? Why would they put up with watching their lover walk out the door and into the home and bed of another? Why would they deprive themselves of the affirmation of friends and family?

 

An emotionally grounded person would not put themselves in that position. Just my opinion...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

As an OW, I've certainly never lacked self-esteem!! Being an OW, IME, if anything affirms that - having someone at your beck 'n call, willing to drop everything to run to be at your side when you snap your fingers, having them there as much or as little as you want, having it all on your terms, and being able to say "vanish" when you want me-time... the OW has so much power, without the need to compromise that full-time Rs bring.

 

As for shadow life - there was none of that. We dazzled. We shone. As we still do now. The only one in the shadows is the BW, through her own doing.

 

I've never needed a man - I have a very fulfilling life, complete and happy. It's like being full after a good meal, but having a little ice cream just for the yummy. So sorry, your self-esteem comment falls nowhere near its mark with me...

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One thing you have to realize is that the OP doesn't have to deal with any of tough issues that most married couples go through. If your in a bad mood they just don't have to see you that day. A husband/wife has no choice they have to deal with it. The OP doesn't have to deal with the issues and strains children will put on a marriage because thats your children not theirs. If they have children then time spent with you means they are denying their own children of that time (food for thought). They don't have to deal with finances or families either because thats your problem and nobody knows about them anyway. Thats why so many of these relationships fail! Once the OP has to deal with these issues like a husband or wife, they go running for the hills.

 

This, too, I find far off the mark. During our A, we spent several months at a time living together as a "normal" couple, doing all of the above. Did it differ at all from how we are now, as a full-time post-A couple? Not remotely. We faced the tough issues - and we face them still - head on, but our loving still comes first.

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How can everyone say it's lovely and wonderful when they can't or aren't even supposed to know about it? LOL

 

Well in my case everyone (but the BW) did know about it and say how lovely and how wonderful. Nothing but support from anyone - including his kids - and everyone was relieved he'd found a "normal" woman who loved him and treated him right, and that I'd found someone I wanted to be with longer than the fading post-orgasmic glow of my last good shagging. It was very positively received all round IRL - different story here, though... ;)

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DealingWDrama
One thing you have to realize is that the OP doesn't have to deal with any of tough issues that most married couples go through. If your in a bad mood they just don't have to see you that day. A husband/wife has no choice they have to deal with it. The OP doesn't have to deal with the issues and strains children will put on a marriage because thats your children not theirs. If they have children then time spent with you means they are denying their own children of that time (food for thought). They don't have to deal with finances or families either because thats your problem and nobody knows about them anyway. Thats why so many of these relationships fail! Once the OP has to deal with these issues like a husband or wife, they go running for the hills.

 

I have to add the OP doesn't know the WS at all...they have glimpses o the real them when the relationship ends, but through the A only see them through rose colored glasses...The same goes with how the WS sees the OP. Relationships are always GREAT in the beginning - but once time moves on and those butterflies fly south, the real person sitting in front of you is not the person who caused those butterflies. That is when real and true love can be built - with work! Not with dinners, kind words, and secretive moments.

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DealingWDrama
As an OW, I've certainly never lacked self-esteem!! Being an OW, IME, if anything affirms that - having someone at your beck 'n call, willing to drop everything to run to be at your side when you snap your fingers, having them there as much or as little as you want, having it all on your terms, and being able to say "vanish" when you want me-time... the OW has so much power, without the need to compromise that full-time Rs bring.

 

As for shadow life - there was none of that. We dazzled. We shone. As we still do now. The only one in the shadows is the BW, through her own doing.

 

I've never needed a man - I have a very fulfilling life, complete and happy. It's like being full after a good meal, but having a little ice cream just for the yummy. So sorry, your self-esteem comment falls nowhere near its mark with me...

 

I get what you are saying....I see the benefits of being the OW in a realtionship - if that is truly what someone wants to be. Don't get me wrong here, I am not condoning, just in understanding. Besides, the OW never has to do the WS's laundry or handle the stress of finances or the stress of raising a family. The BS is left with those responsibilities...obviously alone since the WS is spending time with the OW when he or she could be contributing to their family and making things easier at home, thereby aliviating the stress on the marriage and making the OW obsolete.

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I have to add the OP doesn't know the WS at all...they have glimpses o the real them when the relationship ends, but through the A only see them through rose colored glasses...The same goes with how the WS sees the OP. Relationships are always GREAT in the beginning - but once time moves on and those butterflies fly south, the real person sitting in front of you is not the person who caused those butterflies. That is when real and true love can be built - with work! Not with dinners, kind words, and secretive moments.

 

 

:p DWD believe me I've never had rose coloured spectacles in my life - I'm more of a ***** coloured spectacles person myself, reality is always much better than I'd imagined once I take them off for a second, closer look. I always start out believing the absolute worst about someone, and it takes a long time and much hard work to convince me otherwise. I don't trust easily, and never believe what I'm told until I've verified it independently from several other directions.

 

So for me it's been the reverse - having seen MM at his "worst", I'm now getting to see him at his best. From the sceptical doubting, to the possible consideration. It's a voyage of discovery, one I hope to keep sailing for many more years yet.

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