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In Search Of... Having a hard time forming friendships or finding companions, lovers, or associates? Is someone pursuing an unwelcome relationship with you? Talk about your experiences here.

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Old 20th July 2017, 9:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ZA Dater View Post
Well its quite tough to believe in something when very little related to it can be construed as positive or uplifting at all.


Luckily I can hide this pragmatic realistic viewpoint, except of course "when was your last relationship", then I answer honestly. Which of course leads to total meltdown as I face the full force of judgement.


Its ok for me to be judged but not ok for me to judge harshly a process which has brought me nothing remotely pleasant and is quite at odd with the experience of virtually every person I know.


So, yes I suppose it me, always me!
Look, we are trying to be harsh... Just trying to point out how you are perceived...

This post is simply a "yeah, but..."

You seem to assume that everything has an external locus of control (ie. you have no control, it is just the way things are, and "it" is happening to you). In reality, there is a lot that you can do to change the way you interact with people and how they interact with you.

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Old 20th July 2017, 11:58 PM   #32
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Look, we are trying to be harsh... Just trying to point out how you are perceived...

This post is simply a "yeah, but..."

You seem to assume that everything has an external locus of control (ie. you have no control, it is just the way things are, and "it" is happening to you). In reality, there is a lot that you can do to change the way you interact with people and how they interact with you.

Correct, it does which is why I prefer dealing with things I do have some control over, being work and things I invest time into, be they arranging events, writing articles, taking photographs etc.


I have little control over how I am perceived, I go out each day to try be the best version of me I can, it just so happens this version is not what people want quite clearly. In that sense I either be me or I attempt to be someone else in the hope that someone else is more appealing, after trying this for a year or two I am finished with that idea, it simply doesn't work, nor am I any longer prepared to bend over backwards for "oh if I do this she might like me".


Part of what I do is I need to be able to interact with people at a high level and I am fairly good at it or I wouldn't do what I do. However, this is a double edged sword because for the most part I am dealing with articulated, intellectual people who have attained a certain degree of success in life. Then I go on a date with someone with poorly general knowledge and intellect, this is really the fundamental problem I face virtually all the time. I am not being snobby, I am not different or superior to anyone but I like a good conversation and its really quite hard to find one sometimes, likewise its also quite hard to relate to people at times.


I try and smile at people, I try keep conversations light on dates, try get them to laugh but I cannot escape the feeling that it all comes off as a bit "off" because lets face it, its quite unusual for one person to have no success ever, unless I am cursed with the worth luck on earth which again seems unlikely.


So while I like Miss dynamic intellectual, she isn't going to like me because I fall to far from the "joe public" normal for her to take a chance. Added to which typically she is spoilt for choice. Sure, I can change but only so much and I have tried to try and be a different person but its very hard when they person isn't you, I have tried to fit in, tried to take an interest in supposedly more mainstream interests but again I don't think its a mask I wear with any success.
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Old 21st July 2017, 12:59 AM   #33
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People often like people who are like them... familiarity. It's really tough. I like my opposite too. I like geeky, introverted men. Should we lower our standards to be more realistic? Maybe, but it's not as though there is a lever or something.

What else is there to do but give up or keep trying and complaining about it?
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Old 21st July 2017, 1:43 AM   #34
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People often like people who are like them... familiarity. It's really tough. I like my opposite too. I like geeky, introverted men. Should we lower our standards to be more realistic? Maybe, but it's not as though there is a lever or something.

What else is there to do but give up or keep trying and complaining about it?
He could try doing it the right way.

For most things in life, there is a strategy or a process that works. A formula. Deviate from the formula and you're probably not going to get the result you seek. Do it your way ... and the chances of not getting the result you claim to seek is very high. Unless "your way" closely matches the formula for success.

Want to bake a cake? A specific type of cake? There's a formula. Recipe. People may make their little tweaks to the recipe, but the recipes for chocolate cake will still be similar. ALL will contain ... chocolate. All of them. Or it's not chocolate cake.

Want to buy a Lamborghini? Probably helps to go to a place where they sell Lamborghinis. Might be helpful to have Lamborghini money also, if you seriously want to leave with one.

Want an intelligent woman? Probably helps to find an intelligent woman first. Stop paying for dinner with average girls from OLD. And ... it might be helpful to have the skills to attract and keep an intelligent woman. Don't have those skills? Learn what they are and be willing to adapt. Nothing grows without change. Insisting on staying the way you are and then complaining that you don't get different results is the definition of insanity.

Having the correct strategy and being willing to follow it is critical to success. Especially if you've never done it before.
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Old 21st July 2017, 2:15 AM   #35
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Oh... that was sort of tongue-in-cheek..

People have been trying to get the formula to make certain people attracted to them since forever. It's really nowhere as simple as the one for making a cake. "Figure out what intelligent girls like and be that" Okay, let's say it is possible to tear asunder and rework your entire being in a reasonable amount of time just to attract a person, its not like it's that easy to know what intelligent girls( they all want the same thing in this hypothetical) want.

What you mean by "average girls from OLD"???

I get what you're saying though

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Old 21st July 2017, 4:27 AM   #36
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I am introverted and quirky and I like men that are similar to me. Men that are similar to me (like OP) tend to like bubbly, outgoing, positive etc etc. Go figure.

As for the work events, I usually take a friend and have a great time. My boss knows that I am single and nobody really asks anymore. One event, I went with with a married couple. Another, I went with a single female friend. The third, everyone decided to go without a partner and we all went as a big group. I have never not gone to anything because I don't have a partner.

If I got a payed trip for 2? I would bring a friend or my mum or if all that fails would go alone. I wouldn't even think of *not going*.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 2:26 PM   #37
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He could try doing it the right way.

For most things in life, there is a strategy or a process that works. A formula. Deviate from the formula and you're probably not going to get the result you seek. Do it your way ... and the chances of not getting the result you claim to seek is very high. Unless "your way" closely matches the formula for success.

Want to bake a cake? A specific type of cake? There's a formula. Recipe. People may make their little tweaks to the recipe, but the recipes for chocolate cake will still be similar. ALL will contain ... chocolate. All of them. Or it's not chocolate cake.

Want to buy a Lamborghini? Probably helps to go to a place where they sell Lamborghinis. Might be helpful to have Lamborghini money also, if you seriously want to leave with one.

Want an intelligent woman? Probably helps to find an intelligent woman first. Stop paying for dinner with average girls from OLD. And ... it might be helpful to have the skills to attract and keep an intelligent woman. Don't have those skills? Learn what they are and be willing to adapt. Nothing grows without change. Insisting on staying the way you are and then complaining that you don't get different results is the definition of insanity.

Having the correct strategy and being willing to follow it is critical to success. Especially if you've never done it before.
1: Really, if there is such a set formula why is it millions of men struggle, if there were a set formula it would imply every lady is exactly the same?


2: If you have this magic formula good for you.


3: Great, one needs to be a sheep to succeed. Superb if one wants to live like that, I prefer to live on my own terms thanks very much rather than be dictated to by what amounts to nothing more than a hypothetic, refer to 1.


4: What is this magic formula for success?


5: Ah the famous economic angle. Largely irrelevant unless: everyone is highly superficial or everyone is for sale. It helps some yes and is of no use to others.


6: Again what is this special formula, again it looks to me like one where you BS your way around, spill half truth after half truth, pretend to like things you don't, wear clothes you don't like, go to places that don't interest you? For what, for the MAYBE you meet someone you like and MAYBE they like you?


Then again I suppose the difference is I am typing this on a Sat night on my own and you likely have a GF. Which I suppose makes you right and me wrong.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 11:52 PM   #38
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I have ... more than one ... girlfriend. Who all know each other.

It's not necessary to be a fake version of yourself. Women see through that anyway and it's a turnoff. It's very much possible to do this while being true to yourself and others.

I've shown you where to find this information many times before. Several times.

If you're concerned about being genuine, it's a good idea to start with my favorites:
The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
After those two, there is a tremendous amount of information available that can be helpful. You just have to seek it and apply it. From No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover to The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene to The Mindful Attraction Plan by Athol Kay, and a plethora of other books, videos, forums, blogs, and other sources of info that are readily available if you'd just look. And try. Apply what you learn.

If you do nothing else, at least read The Way of the Superior Man. For me, that book brought it all together because, like you, I had no interest in being phony. Simply want to be the best I can be.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 8:53 AM   #39
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I'm gonna try to understand what seems to me a very convoluted train of thought, probably because your points are not consolidated in your first post but rather dispersed throughout:

1) You are an introvert, and you have non mainstream interests that makes it hard to connect with people on a deep level

2) You like women who are intelligent, bubbly, lively, happy, and

3) You seem to be unable to date them

Correct me if any of these assumptions are incorrect.

Then let's address them

1) Your post seems to suggest that you think you're special and unique and there's nobody else that you can connect with among those you meet in real life. While I can relate to this: I also have very specific interests and in fact I met many of my close friends on a forum because of our shared interest, I also disagree that you can only connect via these things you're passionate about. For example: I prefer a very specific type of film-making and topic, but I would still love to discuss what makes a movie a good movie. I assume that you read widely and have a considerable knowledge of the world. Surely then, you understand everything in the world is connected; our knowledge of the things we're passionate about does not exist in a black hole, it's connected to everything else in the world. Now, give me an explanation of why you can't use those "non mainstream interests" to connect with people. Because I may be a professor of Swedish cinema in the 50s, doesn't mean I can't talk to you about general film-making.

2) The first thought I had in mind was that intelligent human beings tend to be skeptical of those around them. I wonder if you are the type that want women to be smart yet still cheerful "nothing is wrong with the world, everyone is kind". You can certainly have a woman who's happy and bubbly who's also smart, but only to a certain degree. If you expect one who's smart but without any cynicism or pessimism about at least some things then yes, you can stop looking. A smart woman understands some working mechanism of the world and her own limitations of the things she can do to change it. she therefore cannot possibly be your worry-free kind.

3) Have you ever dated one of these women who you find to be a good match and were unable to keep them, or have you never had a girlfriend that you consider what you're "looking for"?

Do you at least know any women who would be of "your type"? What's their SOs like?

What do you think women of "your type" like in a man? How does that differ from the authentic you?

As someone who is pretty much introverted with very specific interests, I also find it extremely hard to connect to people on a deep level. At the end of the day, shared interests isn't the only thing you need in a partner. Compatibility including shared outlook on life is very important. And where you're standing, you cannot possibly attract the happy, bubbly type when all you're doing is "woe is me".

I have a healthy dose of cynicism, however I prefer to discuss how we can help settling Syrian refugees down versus ending the Syrian war. See the difference?
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Old 23rd July 2017, 10:45 AM   #40
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I'm gonna try to understand what seems to me a very convoluted train of thought, probably because your points are not consolidated in your first post but rather dispersed throughout:

1) You are an introvert, and you have non mainstream interests that makes it hard to connect with people on a deep level

2) You like women who are intelligent, bubbly, lively, happy, and

3) You seem to be unable to date them

Correct me if any of these assumptions are incorrect.

Then let's address them

1) Your post seems to suggest that you think you're special and unique and there's nobody else that you can connect with among those you meet in real life. While I can relate to this: I also have very specific interests and in fact I met many of my close friends on a forum because of our shared interest, I also disagree that you can only connect via these things you're passionate about. For example: I prefer a very specific type of film-making and topic, but I would still love to discuss what makes a movie a good movie. I assume that you read widely and have a considerable knowledge of the world. Surely then, you understand everything in the world is connected; our knowledge of the things we're passionate about does not exist in a black hole, it's connected to everything else in the world. Now, give me an explanation of why you can't use those "non mainstream interests" to connect with people. Because I may be a professor of Swedish cinema in the 50s, doesn't mean I can't talk to you about general film-making.

2) The first thought I had in mind was that intelligent human beings tend to be skeptical of those around them. I wonder if you are the type that want women to be smart yet still cheerful "nothing is wrong with the world, everyone is kind". You can certainly have a woman who's happy and bubbly who's also smart, but only to a certain degree. If you expect one who's smart but without any cynicism or pessimism about at least some things then yes, you can stop looking. A smart woman understands some working mechanism of the world and her own limitations of the things she can do to change it. she therefore cannot possibly be your worry-free kind.

3) Have you ever dated one of these women who you find to be a good match and were unable to keep them, or have you never had a girlfriend that you consider what you're "looking for"?

Do you at least know any women who would be of "your type"? What's their SOs like?

What do you think women of "your type" like in a man? How does that differ from the authentic you?

As someone who is pretty much introverted with very specific interests, I also find it extremely hard to connect to people on a deep level. At the end of the day, shared interests isn't the only thing you need in a partner. Compatibility including shared outlook on life is very important. And where you're standing, you cannot possibly attract the happy, bubbly type when all you're doing is "woe is me".

I have a healthy dose of cynicism, however I prefer to discuss how we can help settling Syrian refugees down versus ending the Syrian war. See the difference?
1: I agree 100% with you but when people cannot seemingly discuss anything then dates become a big issue. You mention Syria a well documented current issue, yet people don't even have an opinion on that. What I am trying to say here is hardly ever do I meet people who think about anything but themselves, there are no worldly interests whatsoever, perhaps I am just getting terrible people from OLD, who knows but I tend to find this socially too. I say this reservedly but almost always I send to end up sitting across from someone who seems to have no opinion on anything at all barring what is going on in their own world.


2: Not looking for worry free at all, everyone should be cynical and pessimistic about something.


3: No I haven't, in fact I have never had a gf at all. Yes, I know a few my type and when I see what their SO's are like I usually end up asking myself "why", "what can possibly be the attraction". Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to this but cynically I just think the attraction is they seem to just fit in with everyone else, whereas I make no such attempt at all. Case in point friend says to me I must wear my hair in a certain style because "girls like hair like that", why, why cant I wear my hair the way I like it? Its exactly this sort of rubbish that people seem to keep spewing which only further increases my belief that many people do things they don't want to in the hope it might lead to success at dating. The biggest thing is drinking, if you don't do that you can just about forget it.


See for me I'd rather talk about ending the war because the latter is the function of the former.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 10:55 AM   #41
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I have ... more than one ... girlfriend. Who all know each other.

It's not necessary to be a fake version of yourself. Women see through that anyway and it's a turnoff. It's very much possible to do this while being true to yourself and others.

I've shown you where to find this information many times before. Several times.

If you're concerned about being genuine, it's a good idea to start with my favorites:
The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
After those two, there is a tremendous amount of information available that can be helpful. You just have to seek it and apply it. From No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover to The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene to The Mindful Attraction Plan by Athol Kay, and a plethora of other books, videos, forums, blogs, and other sources of info that are readily available if you'd just look. And try. Apply what you learn.

If you do nothing else, at least read The Way of the Superior Man. For me, that book brought it all together because, like you, I had no interest in being phony. Simply want to be the best I can be.
Thanks.


Just cannot comprehend why some need to read this and others seemingly have unlimited success. I guess that's the cynic in me. I still don't believe there is one specific way to accomplish whatever dating is.


What gets about these so called how to guides is the almost impracticality of some of the advice given. If you don't have friends its going to be next to impossible to date, in my mind anyway.


I keep reading 'oh chat up someone at a book store", I don't know about UK and US bookstores but I have NEVER seen anyone talking to anyone at a book store in SA, never mind trying to chat them up. FYI I go to bookstores often. As for the cold approach, cant say I have ever seen that happen often either, once on the train perhaps but she totally rebuffed him and put her ear phones back into her ears.


This is my point, people I come across are not friendly which makes a lot of these self help dating ideas very difficult to put into practice without looking
1: Stupid
2: Desperate


Where I have seen people succeed its in environments like bars, clubs and those sort of places, which are places where my personality traits absolutely do not work, more so because I just don't enjoy those sorts of places.


Me, I go to coffee shops and read the paper and you know how many single ladies sitting alone I see....none, its always groups or guy and girl. So cool hypothetically I try make conversation, inevitably it will be rebuffed or just plain ignored. Once bitten twice shy and 20 times bitten, don't even bother try.


Lot of the advice given I am sure does work IF you can find those specific circumstances and IF the person is actually receptive BUT ok there is a tall slim brunette at the counter of a coffee shop, my thinking goes like this


1: She is pretty
2: She is well dressed
3: She isn't single
4: Don't bother, he is a lucky guy
5: 10 minutes later bf/fiancé/husband arrives.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 10:59 AM   #42
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Okay.

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Old 23rd July 2017, 11:39 AM   #43
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1: Really, if there is such a set formula why is it millions of men struggle, if there were a set formula it would imply every lady is exactly the same?
Did you read the post to which you've just replied? Here is an excerpt:

Quote:
Want an intelligent woman? Probably helps to find an intelligent woman first. Stop paying for dinner with average girls from OLD. And ... it might be helpful to have the skills to attract and keep an intelligent woman. Don't have those skills? Learn what they are and be willing to adapt. Nothing grows without change. Insisting on staying the way you are and then complaining that you don't get different results is the definition of insanity.
If you don't want an intelligent woman, but yearn for a woman who loves pop culture and going out to clubs, you probably should learn about pop culture and get comfortable with going out to clubs.

If you want a religious woman, you would be wise to learn about whatever religion and start going to church.

Etc.

No where is it implied that "every lady is exactly the same."

Every person in every aspect of life will need to stretch beyond their comfort zones and self perception if they want to reach farther. If a person refuses to do that, refuses to grow and change, they are stuck. This is true socially, in work, in education and also in maintaining and nurturing already established relationships.

I believe that some humans are happier "stuck." I don't know about you. You seem to be very determined to never grow or change in any way; you seem to view it as equivalent to selling yourself out - but you often bemoan the results of adhering to that.

If you like every aspect of your life exactly as it is, change nothing.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 11:52 AM   #44
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OP do you even WANT to succeed? MOST (but not all there are a few exceptions gotta give you credit for that) of your threads can be summed up 'Nothing I do works so no use trying'. And then when people come on here and give you suggestion after suggestion, you simply shoot them down 'Oh this wouldn't work for me because...' .
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Old 23rd July 2017, 12:21 PM   #45
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I feel for you OP because it is really, really hard. My friends were tired of listening to me ask the same questions "Where are all the intelligent, kind, funny guy?" I wasn't finding these guys at work and the advice to go to the bookstores, the hard wear stores, play soccer, etc... never seemed to work for me either. So, I hear you. It's hard to meet people and even harder to meet someone with whom you feel like you really connect.

But still, I feel like you are making this so much harder for yourself than it really needs to be... I hope someday you can get out of your own way and let it happen...
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