Hit Like a Ton of Bricks -Wife Doesn't love me

[sysyphus]

3 weeks ago, I quite innocently discovered my wife AIMing with an on-line aqquaintance (who I was familiar with), but the content of the message was of a romantic nature. I confronted her about it and she suddenly revealed that she had been unhappy in our marriage for years and had found romantic love with this on-line friend whom she had known for several years. They have never met in real life.

 

Following the disclosure , we talked a lot, for the first time. She had never been able to tell me that she was unhappy with me or our marriage (couldn't talk because she didn't want to hurt me -haha) and in the course of about an hour, I had accumulated a laundry list of things that was wrong with our marriage that although now, I can see were there all along, I was oblivious to. She told me she cared for me greatly, that we were best friends ,but that she simply didn't feel in-love with me anymore.

 

I don't think I can describe the horror, the anger and the hurt that I feel, but through it all, I am still desperately in love with my wife. She has agreed to start therapy with me but has not been able to entirely cut herself off from her on-line lover. In fact, she says she may never be able too.

 

In terms of our attempt at getting our marriage back on track, she expresses extreme doubt about our chances for success. She feels it's too late. For my part, I feel robbed because she never told me about these feelings and so where shes sees years of decline, I feel like I've been shoved off a cliff. She says she wants to want it to work out, but simply doesn't feel it. However she does want to do couple's therapy so that she can be certain of what she wants and whatever decision she has to make.

 

I try to remain positive and our counselor seems to believe that this marriage is recoverable, but everytime I feel hope, I seem to get bogged down in the thought that I am competing with an idealized person (her on-lline lover) whom she truly feels love for. How can I , the one she has found so unappealing for so long, have a chance to compete with this guy who is so outside of our day-to-day life. He exists in a perfect world, outside of the daily stress that my wife and I live in. We have 2 small children and little time to spend together alone, whereas with him, she get's on-line and has his undivided attention when she needs it.

 

I tell myself that this is alll new and that time is on my side. That with time we can get some perspective on the situation and our feelings. That the therapist can give us insights inot the reality of our situation and offer guidance down this awful road we must travel. She has agreed to stick it out as long as necccesary ( but I fear that she may remain entrenched in her doubts about me and her ability to rekindle our love). I hope to that with time, some of the giddy new-love high she has with this friend will abate and she will be able to look her feelings more realistically. I fear though that I'm just giving myself false hope.

 

We are so good together. We have many common interests, we see eye to eye on most things (do my detriment, she says that one of the appealing things about the other guy is that they often disagree). We have 2 beautiful children and a rich family life. That she is so willing to toss all of that because she finds this other man so appealing seems so selfish and hurtful. Her focus on "her" happiness is understandable, but again seems so selfish to me. I desperately want ther to see the light and come around to really feeling like we have a chance, but until she can see that this other guy isn't the ideal and maybe sees the value in reconciling, I'm afraid that all the therapy in the world won't help.

 

Just looking for others who might be in similar situations, and some comfort that I'm not all alone.

[whichwayisup]

Please read Owl's thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/

 

Similar situations and I think it could help you cope and shred some light on how to handle what has happened in your life.

[sysyphus]

Thanks for that, it does give me some hope and makes realize that this awful rollercoaster I'm on is "normal" here's a bit from another forum oi'm one to bring the story up to date:

 

My wife had her meeting with the therapist last night. Frankly I was nervous about what might come of it, and wanted to know how it went ,but also, really didn't want to know.

 

When she got home she told me a lot. She explained to me some of the things that realized I had done to push her away in the past and I did appreciate that. She also told me that the therapist asked her to cut off contact with "Mike" for 3 months. All of this should have made me happy, but as usual , she had to wrap up with -"if you ask me, this marriage is dead -I'm 99% sure of it, but that 1% doubt is why I'm still here. I don't love you, I love Mike."

 

That little monologue of hers always sets ,me off. How many times do I need to hear her tell me that this is nearly useless? Well, that ineveitbly ends up with me finding some way to shove back, and last night I told her that I've been trying to think realistically about the future and what the consequences of a divorce would mean. I told her that although I might not be able to stop from losing her, I really didn't want to lose anything else: not the kids, not the house; that she was the one who was doing all the leaving and I'd be damned if I was going to be the one to give up everything.

 

Needless to say, she had an animalistic reaction to the idea of losing her children. I think if she could have left, she would have. I told her that at times I had thought about giving her a bus ticket to to bf and putting her out. She told me should would never leave the children for him. At some point, she got so scared she started to tell me that if that was how it was going to be, she would just stay and learn to live with the situation, to which I said I couldn't go on living like this, that that wouldn't work at all. I told her she needed to see the reality of the situation -that if we split up, we couldn't go on like it is now, that we would have to lead seperate lives and we couldn't go on having anything resembling a normal family life. Somehow I get the feeling that she had some kind of idea about how we could all stay nearly completely together, yet the two of us would be seperated and free to pursue our own happiness -I can't understand that and she really won't go into it.

 

Following all of this, she had a panic attack. Eventually things settled , we slept and now this morning she is severley depressed. Obviously she won't or can't talk about it. I feel like a monster and am pretty sure that I may have put the final nail in the coffin. I' can't talk to her right now about where we are going at this point. Whenever we do talk, it always devolves into a depressive spiral of guilt and hate. I'll be talking to our therapist next week about this.

 

If we can't get over this hump, I'm afraid all is lost. Everytime we do this ,it gets worse and the distance between us just grows. Pretty sure at this point she hates me and feels completely trapped -she's probably right. I want to do someting to make her feel more secure and hopeful, but all I seem to be able to do is push her away.

[whichwayisup]

What a horrible mess and I feel for what you're going through....Sorry for all that pain.

 

Seems she's not thinking at all right now, she's SO addicted to this other man, the feelings of what she thinks is love is more that crushy feeling. Has she actually met him face to face?

 

She's not seeing the full picture here, she's got blinders on and honestly she has NO clue what she's done to you and the marriage. Another thread read is by DazednConfused, it's long and intense read but worth every word. Dazed is truely inspirational and strong. Maybe show your wife these threads and see what she has to say afterwards. (Print them out for her)

 

I know Owl (good old Wise Owl *wwiu hides cuz owl hates being called wise!*) will have some input in here.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t40398/15-1?highlight=

 

There's Dazed's thread, if it doesn't work when you click on it, go to page 3 in this forum and scroll down near the bottom. (called my wife made stupid mistake)

 

You love her, don't give up on her...Give it all you have and if then it doesn't work you know you tried your best and didnt' give up.

[uberfrau]

What your wife has done is the equivalent to the pathetic males that would prefer computer porn than having sex with people.

 

Your wife is in love with a COMPUTER PROGRAM!!!!! I mean, she hasn't met this guy, or seen him (OR SO YOU THINK!).

 

Really, if she is so hot for him, i really doubt that their "relationship" exists solely in cyberspace....

[whichwayisup]

What your wife has done is the equivalent to the pathetic males that would prefer computer porn than having sex with people.

 

Don't do that Ubefrau. YOU cannot compare porn to an online friendship and the damage it could cause. Yes she has NOT SEEN OR MET him, but hello!! There is another person on the otherside of the computer screen. Who knows if they've talked on the phone...A connection is a connection! Online, offline, face to face, phones whatever. IT is real and don't be little his situation and his pain by summing it all up by comparing it to computer porn. That is just really unfair to what he's going through right now.

[sysyphus]

Never met him face to face, and she is realistic about that. She is the first to admit that she doesn't know him and doesn't know if it would work out, but, still she insists that she is in love with him and he with her. Says she will never meet him unless she is free and clear of me. I appreciate that, but doesn't really make me feel any better.

 

Part of the problem here is that she resigned herself to unhappiness in the marriage long ago without one word to me about it. Along comes someone else and because she divorced me in her heart years ago, this new love was OK by her.

 

Talked a little today and asked her if she totally hates me at this point and she said no, but that she felt cornered and didn't like the options she felt she had left. I tried to convey that I was sorry for being so aggressive about it and that I felt like a monster. I used to feel that I was a good person, but not after last night. I really went after her with hammer and tongs. I guess only time will tell. For the meantime, she is not going anywhere , but AFAICT, either is our marriage. So all I can hope is that she can bear with my depressions and rages as I try to get a handle on them. In so many other ways I've really made an effort to address the issues that she said had been a problem in the marriage and she does acknowledge a real change in me -but again usually follows up with the caveat of " but it might be too little too late". She says she doesn't want to give me any false hope, but reminds me of this fact whenever we talk. It really kills me. I asked her to refrain from saying those things anymore as all it does is set me into attack mode and frankly, I get it. That fact is with me every second of every day.

 

Anyone here know of any kind of "normal" pattern in this sort of thing? Am I going to be paranoid, depressed and angry for weeks, months, years? Is there any hope that we can survive this period and actually make positive progress?

 

I feel so powerless in this process -she holds our fate. I am waiting at the starting line while she makes up her mind, or at least somewhat doubtfully works her way through therapy.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[whichwayisup]

It's really sad that she didn't come to you right away when she started feeling differently. She took that into her own hands and basically decided it was over in her heart. Not fair to you at all and definately not fair to your children.

 

The grass is greener on the otherside of the fence right now for her...Chances of it really working? Not very likely. I'm not telling you to allow her to try that, that is totally NOT a good idea but she may ask you to do that, so be prepared for anything.

 

YOU didn't do anything wrong, you were kept in the dark and not given any chance on working to make things better...

 

Glad to help, you're welcome.

[quankanne]

sys, I get the feeling that she's in love with the idea of being in love with Cyber Guy, and is basing her actions and thoughts on that romanticized ideal of him, rather than reality (her reaction to the realities of divorce pretty much confirms this theory).

 

talking to her and asking point blank what y'alls options are regarding the marriage, and the ramifications of those options might help get her to see past her romanticized outlook on her "relationship" with Cyber Guy. It also might force her into seeing that she's equally responsible for what happens in your marriage just as much as you are.

 

I know this is not playing fair, but maybe one of the things you should bring up is her negative attitude towards the marriage, then point out that nothing will ever get better as long as she retains it.

 

sorry I can't be of more help, sys, but I'm pulling for you two ...

[Ladyjane14]

I had a situation in my marriage which was very similar to yours. It's very painful, I know.

 

First off, I think you're doing a fine job. You're probably feeling guilty that you are the cause of all your wife's pain and misery. But rationally, what is it that you are supposed to do? Live your life as her room-mate while she actively engages in relationships with other men?

 

The first thing I did when I found out about my husband's on-line romance was to see a lawyer. I did it before I even confronted my husband. I wanted a divorce. I wasn't willing to live as an adversary, the villain of the piece that kept my husband from living his life in the manner of his choosing.

 

I must say, that we were BOTH so flabbergasted at the imminent end of our marriage that we were forced to reevaluate it.

 

I think that men and women really are telling each other what the problems are in our relationships. We just fail to hear it in a way that compells us to take action. We fail to prioritize our partner's complaints as if they were our own.

 

I had to take a fair and unbiased look at myself, and what my share had been in the emotional drifting apart that had taken place over the years. When I did, I found lots of changes that I could make that would meet my husband's needs, effectively putting OW out of business.

 

I don't want you to think that whatever you did or didn't do caused your wife to become involved with the OM. That was her choice. You didn't make it for her. But you will have to look at the reasons why she made it.

 

One of the hardest things to realize when you're on the receiving end of a WS's (wayward spouse's) bizaar antics is that they are very much like a drug addict who is under-the-influence. They are getting something from these interactions that they feed on. Often, in emotional affairs, they are building up a low self-esteem.

 

Addicts are going to lie and cheat to get their fix, and even when their intentions are good, they will back-slide occasionally. For the BS (betrayed spouse) this feels like a direct attack. It's quite a trick to separate yourself from those feelings and recognise an addict at work.

 

EVERY BS hears the old standard, "I-love-you-but-I'm-not-in-love-with-you". It's like they have a frikkin' WS manual or something. It's followed up later by the common lament, "but-he/she-is-my-SOULMATE!"

 

The infidelity survivor will not wear his heart on his coatsleeve for all the usual WS jargon. The important thing to do is to continue to make progress in repairing the marriage, while not taking on additional emotional damage. You've got to be a little thick-skinned when you're dealing with an addict who is off her drug of choice.

 

I'll tell you how I took the glamour out of the on-line OW in my case. I didn't insist on NC (no contact). I had never heard of this forum or others like it, where I would have immediately been advised to insist on just that. I was flying by the seat of my pants.

 

Bear in mind that my husband was highly motivated to save the marriage. I had already announced my willingness to divorce him forthwith. I insisted that he give up the parts of contact which were inappropriate. And he voluntarily gave me accountability. He gave me all of his passwords, cell phone records, EVERYTHING. I was welcome to plop myself down at any time while he was on-line talking to her.

 

It didn't take long for her to be completely unmasked in his eyes. He was actually quite sickened at how twisted she was. Meanwhile, I was fulfilling the EN's (emotional needs) that he had been receiving from her.

 

Only you can decide what works for you. That was a high-risk gambit on my part to allow the continued contact, and I really don't recommend it. But on the other hand, it very clearly illustrated to him that the grass isn't always greener. He was very apalled in the end to realize that the person he almost lost his family over was pretty much a psycho.

 

One thing that you might consider doing is starting a journal to help you with your own emotional issues. I kept two. One strictly for venting which he wasnt' allowed to see for obvious reasons. And the second journal was to share, which we were both welcomed to post in. It slows you down a bit and allows you to choose your words more carefully when you write them down. Sometimes it makes it easier to communicate openly without feeling blindsided in a face-to-face confrontation.

 

Hang in there and keep posting. It helps.

[SoleMate]

Sisyphus, have you been referred to http://www.marriagebuilders.com yet? If not, hurry on over for some advice which will seem tailor-made for your painful situation. It will explain how you can become an expert at meeting your wife's most improtant emotional need, thus causing you to be irresistible to her. Good luck, hang in there, there is hope to recover from this.

[HokeyReligions]

I'm sorry for the pain you are feeling. I've been there too.

 

There is a lot of good advice here, but I'll add my own two cents. However, before using any of the advice you receive here (or anywhere else) talk to your therapist about it. He or she knows you, has talked to both of you and some of the advice may be counter to the program your therapist is using. The stuff here is a great thing to bring and discuss with the therapist first.

 

Back to my two cents: Don't compete with the other guy. Don't compare yourself with him. Your wife is already doing that and you are enabling her to do that. Focus on the issues in your marriage. What changed, how have you both changed? What was different when you first met and fell in love? What would she like from you, what would you like from her? What do you want for and from yourself? Instead of "what can I do to make you love me?" ask "what can we do for ourselves and each other to help reestablish love and build a new and better marriage?" And think about what you can do for YOURSELF too. If the marriage ends, and I hope that it doesn't, but IF if does, you have to find some positives in your own life so that you can bear the pain and be there for your children.

 

Whatever mistakes you BOTH made, one of hers is not communicating to you early on. Bad habits or routines set in for both of you. She may be realizing this now and is shifting the 'blame' to you because it's dang difficult to admit that she's the one who caused these painful patterns in her own life. That's a normal human response. I blamed my husband for a lot of things and I had to learn the hard, very hard, way that I was responsible for a lot of things.

 

A friend of mine whose marriage was on the rocks some years ago told me that her therapist said to both of them: "It's not about fixing Sue" Her husband did what I had done---blamed Sue for everything and his approach to therapy was that it would "fix Sue". I never forgot that. I hope that your wife's attitude is not similar. It's not about "fixing" either of you -- it's about healing BOTH of you and each of you taking responsibility for your parts in what went wrong.

 

Good luck, I really do wish you well.

[sysyphus]

Wow, lot's of advice and support -this is really more than I could hope for. Thank you all.

 

An update: Last night after a really hard day (exhausted from the word "go", depressed, anxious and run ragged by our 2 kids) we spent the evening playing an on-line game together and it was like the hurt hadn't really happened. She was in a decent mood.We talked a little about the previous night.

 

She told me she was trying really hard not to jump to any conclusions righ now because both of us are in such an awful state. She said she understood and knew that these were special circumstances and that we were both showing sides of ourselves that would never surface otherwise. We both stated that right now especially we needed to love our kids more than we sometimes hate each other.This is part of the awfulness about the situation. Despite everyting, we are really best friends who care for each other deepply. Somehow though, this idea of falling out of love and finding happiness with someone else has become like a door she feels she can't come back through.

 

Anyway, looks like we will be moving forward with the therapy. That means that in a week or so she will be trying to completely sever contact with "Mike" -gonna be really hard for both of us. I can only hope that it works out and that the 3-month period she agreed to with the therapist will grow to 6 months, to a yat to forever -not' counting on it, but hope is about all I have.

 

 

 

My daughter is sitting here with me as I type and love the emoticons and wants me to send you all one:

[R O B J.]

Oh man

 

I feel the pain and confusion in your posts, but I've come to tell you it is time for strength not pity.

 

I hope you've acknowledge the fact that it is your WIFE who has cheated on, let down and disrespected YOU! Yet appreciate spending hours listening to her explain all the things you had done wrong in the marriage. And you repeatedly state how this has made you "feel like a monster". Then you share these feelings of doubt and remorse with her in an attempt to make her appreciate you level understanding and compassion. (which will backfire)

 

Like it or not, your response to this situation has been to engage in more of the same type of behavior which caused your wife detach in the first place. You seem to supplicate yourself to her, as in a follow up post where you state something to the effect of "today was a good day because she was in a good mood." Please find me a woman who respects any man who is dependent on her moods to determine the quality of HIS day.. There are none, because that is a hallmark of needy behavior... and it is a sure way to cause a woman to feel unattracted to a guy, married or not.

 

Contrast your "apologetic" remorseful response, even though you are the victim, with you wife's response to being caught. She essentially tells you that you're so lame as a husband that you can't even hope to compete with an unseen Internet chat buddy!! and intentionally sowing seeds of doubt about any chances for the marriage to succeed while agreeing to attend marriage counseling??!! LISTEN - i don't know you at all, but I am positive that NO WAY in the world you are that lame of a guy. You are being assessed below value.

 

PLEASE RESPECT YOURSELF AND DO NOT TOLERATE SUCH BEHAVIOR! In doing so, I believe you will be addressing perhaps the primary reason she has strayed from you. I applaud your decision to lay down your intentions to fight for what's right (working to secure the marriage first, and then the kids and house should that fail) I would be willing to bet her attitude towards you improved after that. That is because to stood up to her and proved you were "manly" for lack of better word.

 

Also, insist that your wife refrain from any "speculative" comments whose effect is damaging to the counseling work proceeding in good faith. If your children were enrolled in some educational program for their benefit and their attitude was as negative as you wives, would you tolerate that from them?? Probably not. Nor should you from her.

 

I know I don't have the full picture of your relationship, but please look for some truth within my posting. You need to communicate through you BEHAVIOR and attitude, not just your words.

 

no matter how rough the road gets, stay on the high road.

[sysyphus]

You all have many good points, and some misconceptions, but it's hard to really understand such a complex issue with such a condensed version provided. Even I don't really have a complete grasp of the situation.

 

A few thoughts (comments welcome).

 

I do need to be less needy -it both engenders lack of respect and places more of a burden on her to deal with my emotional distress -bad idea. As time goes by, I feel the need to apologize less and act more. I am not blameless in this however. I was not meeting emotional needs and was childish and easy to anger. I have some very real issues that I need to deal with one way or the other if for nothing other than my own future happiness. So that said I am exploring and working on these areas. She has much to do as well.

 

I also need to make sure that she is able to focus on the issue of our marriage undistracted by other fears. Her big one is that I have been the sole source of support in the family for the last 6+ years. Prior to that, her financial contribution to the household was appreciated, but small. She has an enormous fear of leaving solely because of the fear that she will not be able to transition securely to living on her own and caring for the kids. She has been a stay at home mom for the last 4.5 years. That has been very important to both of us and we would both prefer things stay that way. She has made a complete career sacrifice to follow me around the country from job to job. I feel it's only fair to now give her the support that was put on hold for the sake of my career. My threat to take the kids and the house was mean spirited and a vicious attack intended for one purpose only -to hurt her as much as i could. I care too much for my kids to throw out their mother. and frankly I care too much for her to take away the most precious thing in the world to her. As much as it might have opened her eyes,I still regret the fear it put in her -it didn't help the situation.

 

All that explained, much of her decision making has been muddled up with the fear of her survival outside of my support. Now I could use that as a weapon, but I won't. I do not want her staying out of fear. It could work against me to make some promises about helping her transition out of dependence on me, but I believe that that is a risk I must take to ensure a "pure" commitment to rebuilding or ending our marriage. It feels like a big risk giving up the little bit of leverage I have, but it makes for a more level playing field in the end.

 

We have both begun to be able to identify the issues and conditions that are blocking our ability get beyond the hurt. We need to get over this cycle of hurting each other before any real work can begin and thankfully, I thing we can and are making small moves in that direction. Not saying the way has been cleared, but I think we are both beginning to understand the patterns and triggers that cause a lot of grief right now and are both sincere in trying to not set them off uneccesarily.

 

I think today we are both feeling a lot more positive about the process. Neither one of us is making any bets on the outcome, but at least we are both willing to give it a try.

[Owl]

Sys-

I do hope you take the time to check out my link that WWIU sent you. (WISE?!?! WWIU-you know you're in trouble girl!! ) It sounds like you're in my EXACT situation nine months ago.

 

You're wife is currently going through withdrawl from the "death" of her affair. The next several weeks (even a month or two) are going to be very tough for the both of you. She's going to waffle on her decision many times. And it's gonna hurt like hell each and every time you hear that. All you can do at this point is be as supportive as you can be while she's going through this (check out Marriagebuilders Plan A). That, and you're going to have to do EVERYTHING you can to ensure that the online contact DOES come to an end. Install some spyware on her computer...and check it. Make sure she does NOT know how to disable it.

 

Realize this. Right now, she's "re-written" the history of your marriage to suit her desire to support her affair. ALL spouses do this...mine did too. I heard exactly the same things you heard....EXACTLY. She hasn't been happy for years (in truth, she hadn't been happy in about a year...do to untreated depression), she loves him, but not you. Understand this, and TELL her this...that there is no way in hell you COULD compete with her online lover...because it's all fantasy. They've never met in RL, and they really, truly, don't know each other. Just the best parts of what they LET each other see of themselves. I told my wife's OM (other man) that he couldn't possibly know her...he'd never been around in her in real life...she'd never done anything to ruin that illusion of perfection. She'd never burped in front of him, he'd never been in the bathroom when she dropped a "stinky", etc....LOL. It sounds sillly, but it got both of their attention. Ask your wife if he's left or right handed...ask her what kind of music he listens to...ask her if he prefers to snuggle at nite, or if he's a blanket thief. She can't answer...she doesn't know. She's dealing with the "in love" feelings that you have at the beginning of a relationship. (Check out The Five Languages of Love....great book. Second chapter has some good info about being "in love").

 

The bottom line is this...for the next few weeks, you're going to have to work hard to show her that you do still love her through this, and help her get over the withdrawl she's having over the affair. It took my wife three weeks of hell, and then she actually realized what she was about to lose...

 

Work hard to make sure that the affair has ended. Check her phone usage too....odds are, they had been calling each other for a while. It's likely going to take some work and some time for the actual contact to end...it took about a month and a half for it to end in our case. And don't EVER fall for the "can we keep contact just as friends?" spiel...the answer is no. Tell her to send an email to him (and copy you openly, and let you be there when she writes it) to her online friend....telling him that ALL contact has to end for the next three months. That he can't contact her AT ALL....and asking that if she slips and contacts him, that he NOT RESPOND. The reason for this is simple....she's got to break the "habit" of the affair...and you will be amazed at how things can change once the habit is broken.

 

My wife's online affair ended nine months ago...it was the most horrible thing I've ever gone through in my life...and I've been through a LOT as a soldier. I've never been so devestated...ever. I have to admit, I'm still hurt by what happened. But, that hurt is fading.

 

And I want to end this on a message of hope...my wife DID realize what she had at home after the affair had been revealed for a month or so...and we've reconciled. We went to marriage counseling, and we're still going. We're happier now together than we had been in quite a while. We're still together, and she's repeatedly told me that she's soooo glad that our love was strong enough to make it through the bad times. She doesn't ever want this to happend again...and she's taking steps to make sure it doesn't. She HAS developed boundaries in dealing with online friends...and she makes sure that THEY know those boundaries too. I removed the keylogger from her computer about 4 months ago....three weeks ago, she asked me to re-install it, because she'd noticed that our kids were using her computer to go online a lot...our kids know the whole deal (they're all older teens), and they knew that I'd taken all the spyware off her computer, but had left it on mine. She wanted to make sure that THEY weren't doing something wrong online...and wasn't the least bit worried about what I'd see on her computer.

 

We're healing. We're still together, and we're happy together. We've both still got some things to deal with (I've got some scars to get over, and she's working to get past the guilt of what she's done.) But, we both KNOW that we're going to make.

 

Hang in there friend. PM me if you would like. Don't let anyone (Uberhund) tell you that what you're going through is nothing...because the pain, the damage to your marriage, all of that is JUST as bad as if it had been a "real" affair. I know....I've been there.

[Owl]

LOL...a little more to add.

 

I just re-read your last post, about your wife being "unable" to make it on her own. When she DIDN'T get on the plane to fly away and live with her OM (read my thread), one of the first things we started working on when she still wasn't sure she wanted to remain married was getting her ready to live on her own. I told her..."Look, if you're going to leave me, then do it with some style. Don't run to someone else because you've got no place else to go...get a job, be ready to take care of yourself. If you leave, don't run...strut!". So, I got her applications at several places around town, I helped her re-write her resume, we went together to go price apartments for her to move out into.

 

Guess what...that took a while. During this time, we seperated in our own home. We rearranged so that we each had our own room...and it SUCKED for me. But...it was a good start, and it showed some respect for EACH OTHER. And while we did all of this, I still worked hard to help her work through what she could about WHY it happened, etc.... And when it came down to it, she ended up NOT going. She didn't move out. She took some in home work to do, instead of getting a job. Because it turned out that she didn't mind being at home, she wanted to be here for our kids when they needed her. But that whole "fog" of the affair kept her convinced that she had no other options...once the fog lifted, and she saw that she DID have options, she realized that there actually wasn't anything wrong with her life...her and I needed to make some changes in our relationships, but nothing that couldn't be done.

 

BTW, has you or your wife gone to the doctor to see if either of you are suffering from depression. To quote our doctor when my wife went to him after the affair came out..."well, if you weren't before, you darn sure are suffering from it NOW!" LOL.

 

Hang in there friend...you sound like you've done a LOT of the right things....just keep working at it. And remember to take care of yourself too. I lost around 25lbs, during the first two weeks....it was pretty scary. Keep on going friend....don't lose hope yet. I feel for you...I DO know your pain bud....but there is still hope.

[sysyphus]

Hey Owl,

 

Thanks a ton, I can only hope that my situation resolves as well as yours. She's not at the remorseful stage, more the "I'm willing to see what happens stage". I'm not sure how much "re-writing" of our history she has done, but certainly, I do believe that her perception of it may be inaccurate at best. Either way, that perception needs to be dealt with. I am the first to admit that I am difficult to live with at times, and I am working to correct that for her and for me.

 

I am a bit concerned about getting to confrontational about "him" right now. I don't know that she would take my challenging of the validity of the relationship as anything other than an attack. I'm leaving most of that to our therapist , who has a really good handle on the deal and has a great brass-tacks approach. He was the one who actually convinced her to really try to cut it off with the guy where I failed to make the case. She does understand intellectually that she doesn't know the guy, but she is convinced that the love is real. I don't think she has gotten a grip on the reality of the idea that this is the infatuation stage and not a mature love. As for checking up on her, I think that's another thing I will ask the therapist to mediate. If I do it, it just paints me as the paranoid that I am. I already did some junior-detective work and it was not well received.

 

Next week I go to the therapist solo and I will be addressing a lot of these issues (trusting her to keep away from "him", should we take steps to ensure that she is, working on getting her to see the reality of her relationship with "him" as well as what changes I need to make and what I can do to get us over this hump. For now there seems to be a truce and we are "getting along".

 

Will keep you all advised as the situation evolves.

[newby]

sysyphus, i think your wife is very lucky

[Owl]

On the 'trusting her to keep away from him' thing...any therapist who has any experience in dealing with infidelity will tell you that you have every right at this point to NOT trust her....that's the biggest issue after all...she's betrayed the trust you had that she would never be unfaithful to you. She's allowed someone else to replace you in her heart. And the ONLY way to regain that trust is for HER to demonstrate it to you. She CAN'T regain trust with you yet...because she's not shown you that she wants to, and not provided you the opportunities to verify that things are now like they should be.

 

Trust me, there is NO reasoning with her intellectually at this point as to how she feels about the OM. It's just not possible...my wife and I had some serious battles whenever I said that what they shared was a fantasy. It's because she's so enamoured right now that she refuses to see the truth. And that will last as long as she remains in contact with him. Once the contact ends, and she's forced back to reality, she'll slowly begin to recognize that. That's why they call it the "fog" on the other sites.

 

"Just getting along" is about the best you can do at this point friend...and if she is able to break it off with him, then you'll really see how things can get better. You might consider this one tact when talking about the "no contact" issue with her. POLITELY challenge her with this thought...if this is "true love"....if he is her "soulmate"...then a three month break won't do ANYTHING to reduce that. She'll be as in love with him, and he with her, as they are now. So, what does she TRULY have to risk by doing this? (Her response will be nothing, but why should I have to do that? Your response should be..."so you know that you've done all that you can to make sure that you've done all that can BEFORE you leave this marriage) This tactic has worked for a lot of people here before.

 

Good luck!

[sylviaguardian]

Sysyphus,

 

Forgive me if I'm not 100% up on your story - i only had time to skim through the posts. I just wanted to say that despite what your wife says, no-one would believe that their marriage only had a 1% chance of working and still stay. From one of your other posts as well, it sounds like you get on really well as friends. It seems to me that there is a strong relationship there but that it is buried under a few levels of some negative feelings that have crept in for various reasons.

 

There is no doubt that the fact that your wife is 'in love' with this person is partly because she has not had any real-life interaction with him. It's so easy to find a person 'perfect' if we never see them in a bad mood, stressed, ill etc. Forget him - he is just an imaginary 'knight in shining armour' for her.

 

What you have to do is minimise the reasons for her wanting to go away. I would agree with some posters to a certain extent though - I don't think that you have to do all the work here. It's also up to your wife to see that she has treated you badly that she might be severing something that's worth holding onto.

 

Best of luck,

 

Syl

[sysyphus]

Your response should be..."so you know that you've done all that you can to make sure that you've done all that can BEFORE you leave this marriage) This tactic has worked for a lot of people here before.

 

That's more or less the arguement that our therapist used with her and it made sense to her . He basically said, what if a few years down the road things are bad for you and you look back and say "what could I have done differently?" this is the one thing you need to do. I had tried the tack of "If this is real, he'll be there for you when we are done". Trouble is, she literally could not resist contacting him. Everything they say about the addictive nature of this thing is true. The sad observation is when we first got together , we felt the same way (everyone does) she was in my every thought when we were apart and we longed to be with each other as much as we could. Sad how these normally positive emotions can be such a cause for ruin in a situation like this.

 

The big issue of trying to check up on her is monitoring her phone activity -easily done. Monitoring the computer activity -a key logger seems to be the only guarantee. I do want to talk to the therapist first to see if he in fact would make the suggestion to do so to her and not have it come from me. I don't want to seen as a jailer. My only other worry is that they have several mutual on-line friends that although I doubt it, could be used as go-betweens, but I suppose that's not the same as direct contact.

 

On another subject, I'm failry certain that I have /am suffering from depression which may well have contributed to our problems and she has as much as admited to being depressed over the last few years. We have had a rough bunch of stressful years going back about 6 years now (her being severly injured in a car accident and not being able to work for 6 months or more, getting laid off, moving 1000 miles to a new city, getting laid off 6 months later, getting pregnant, moving 4000 miles, starting a new job in a new city and having a baby, poor social life outside the home, etc.) Neither of us has been diagnosed and I don't think our therapist is going to jump the gun on it, but again, something to discuss in the near future. We are both really anti-drugging for a number of reasons, but right now if I could take a pill to take the edge off -I would.

 

Thanks for giving me some hope that this thing can be overcome.

 

Sysyphus

[Owl]

Your therapist may or may not be able to make that diagnosis. Your doctor can. I'd talk with him. I know now looking back that I was depressed in the aftermath of my wife's affair...and treatment would have likely helped me do things better than I did. Good luck friend!

[jmargel]

Sysphus,

 

I just skimmed through the posts and Owl would probably be your best source of information since he's gone through the same thing. However what she feels for this OM is *NOT* love. It's what I call a transfixion. Which means "having your attention fixated as though by a spell" See, this 'online lover' is someone who is *perfect* in her eyes. It's all made up of good things. Trust me its very easy for someone to tell you want they want to hear, whether online or offline. I could go online right now, find a woman who is down on her luck and make her feel like a princess and tell her everything she wants to hear. Would I be so cruel to someone like that? No. But there are people out there that would just to fulfill their own desires.

 

*If* she were to meet this guy, the chances of it succeeding I would estimate at less than 1%. But that won't guarantee that you & your wife will be back together. See right now *he* is just a topic. What you two really need to do is deal with the *issues* the backbone on why she was doing this and what was making her unhappy. Resolving these conflicts and getting rid of these issues will then stop these topics from popping up. Check out my link in my signature that may help you some.

 

You have already told us what you need to do to improve yourself. Which is good. Now is the time to act on them. My one suggestion here though is to let her come to you. Let her talk about the situation when she wants to. Don't keep asking her or talking to her about it. Start doing things with her that you both enjoy, however do it in a context so that it doesn't seem like the only reason why you are doing it, is to get her back. It's too much pressure on her.

 

Don't be the first to tell her you love her. It may go for days until she realizes that you are not saying it anymore. She'll start to question you perhaps or realize that you are no longer her safety net. You have been the provider for her and have taken care of her like she is a child in some ways. You two clearly have communication problems in which she didnt tell you what was bothering her, just assumed you knew and seems like you haven't had any heart to heart talks with her in the past. Counseling will help and with this continuing hopefully you two will recover from this.

 

She needs to break contact with this guy, the counselor knows this too. He is a germ that will continue to fight everything her counselor tells her. He'll either contest everything said or say that he'll lay back, and then will contact her now & then to see 'how things are'. Just so long as he knows she is still thinking about him, he'll still have his foot in the door.

 

She really doesn't know the 'truth' about this guy. Remember she never met him, how can you be in love with someone you never met? She hasn't hit reality yet. Thing is, if you pressure her to make her see this point she'll just get upset and more distant from you. What you need to do is distance yourself from her in some ways, so that she'll come to you.

 

Chasing a dog will only make that dog run faster & further away. Ever notice if you want your dog to come to you the best way to do this is to walk to opposite direction? The dog knows the game is over and if he doesn't come with you then he's on his own. This kinda works with relationships too. Work on yourself, let her know that anytime day or night that she wants to talk to you about this or anything else you'll be here for her but then drop it at that. Your first mission here is to get her to desire or to get that want back. That's just my opinion on how to do that and from my experience.

[sysyphus]

Thanks for that link, so much of what is being said really rings true for me and gives me hope (which I depserately need right now).

 

I wish I could share some of this with my wife, but I don't think the time is quite right now. I don't think she is open to a rational discussion of causes and effects of what has happened just yet although she is all over the things that I did to push her away -but that's OK, we need to deal with that too. We'll come around to her issues as well when the time is right. She knows I'm out here, and is glad I've found some support, but at the same time thinks that she's wearing the black hat with you guys, so I certainly woon't be sending her here for a long time if ever.

 

One quick insight I've garnered the last few days out here: In just a few days, with a few posts, some of you have been so supportive and comforting that already I can sense a great feeling of friendship. Now I know that none of us are friends really, but it doesn't make the felling any less real. I'm in pain, and you guys have given me support and help. I can only imagine what she must feel towards this guy after a prolonged period of emiotional support he provided her. She confided her unhappiness in our marriage with him for quite awhile before things turned romantic.

 

Right now the thing that's got me nervous is the planned separation from the OM. I really hope that she wants to work the program enough to really stick with it. I'm so anxious to see if she can get out of the fog and see if that makes a difference. i'm also really concerned about how to handle the inevitable withdrawl effects she is bound to experience. I want to help her with it, but I don't think she is comfortable with coming to me for comfort with her sense of loss of him -kind of a weird situation. Any insight into how to get through this period would be appreciated. I'll be sure to keep you all up to date as it progresses.

 

Anyway, thanks again for all the support.