How to move on if I totally love him?

[Ellin]

I told my story once before on this forum and then I received great help and support from many wonderful people on this forum. I didn't drop by very often after that because I'm overloaded with things to do, bringing up my three young ones alone.

 

But now I'm in trouble once again and don't know how to cope.

 

I fell madly in love with this man last spring. I'm 37, he's 51 and he has been in a relationship with a woman age 56 for many years, but not married and no children together, however she's got children and grandchildren of her own. She's an alcoholic and gets abusive towards him, calling him awful names and put downs. Whenever she sees any signs of his drifting away she burst into tears, but otherwise doesn't seem to make any effort to make him happy or put him above the alcohol and tobacco on her list of priorities.

 

He's been saying he loves me very much and I'm the best thing that ever happened to him. That we would be together one day, but many things need to be sorted out first. But he's also very insecure, has been telling me that I would not stay with him or love him for a long time. He's also been mentioning marriage and a baby - something he'd always wanted but never had. It wasn't a proposal or anything like that, though, more like dreaming perhaps.

 

Recently I had two opportunities to have a bit of quality time with him for the first time in all these months. He went away to the place where he originally comes from (he goes there regularly) and I flew over to join him for weekend twice. The time spent together was just like being in heaven. He said the same thing and said that he wanted us to live together over there in future.

 

While being there I learned something else that he had been afraid to tell me. He's got a life-long illness, which is not curable, only treatable and affects many things in life. It can shorten life by around 10 years and also negatively impacts his sexual performance. I know now that he has not had sex for years, but I'm not sure what caused it in the first place, as I think he suggested once indirectly that at some point he'd got fed up with that woman's behavior and also she had a heart surgery a few years ago (but still drinks and smokes heavily). I know though, that she probably humiliates him when she's drunk, because I heard her once say that he is useless and only good for cooking and cleaning (which are things he has to do for himself, as she's too off her face every day apparently and likely he does that for her, too).

 

So he did make an effort when we were in bed but it didn't end very well. I'm still not sure how much this was influenced by physical and how much by psychological causes. It was a bit of a shock for me, as he had talked about it a lot before and in the way that would really turn me on. What he was saying indicated that he had no such problems at all and he was telling me what we would do together. But after that few failed attempts, he seemed devastated and the subject sort of disappeared. I didn't know how to react to that so I just carried on as normal and was loving and caring just the same. I think he tried to talk to me about it a few times after that but he never could bring himself to say it, despite usually being very direct and straightforward. But he did suggest at some point that I might want to find a man who is more capable in this area.

 

There were more good moments, though. When I was there with him he introduced me to some of his friends and he seemed to be bursting with pride. They were lovely people and all said we look great together and joked about getting married etc. They also said that he had been talking about me and told them that he loved me. He seemed very happy then. After that he changed a little in what he was saying. Before, when pressured, he would go into a panic mode and say that he might never be able to walk away from his woman, but after that time we spend together properly, he started saying that now he just wanted to get away from "that" and he wouldn't even go back if he didn't have to. He became more loving, showed more dedication, talked more about the future.

 

But then he was due to come back and I started feeling very stressed. I knew that as long as we are over here nothing would change significantly. So just the day after he returned, even though he phoned often and talked about meeting soon, I knew that he was still with her and I felt that I couldn't take it no more.

 

I insisted on seeing him as soon as possible because I couldn't wait to tell him that I'd had enough. We had this conversation four days ago. I'm not good at this, so it was pretty chaotic and a bit of a shock for him as he didn't see it coming. He told me that we would be together because he didn't want to stay where we live now, he said that his life was hell over here and wanted to go back to that place where he comes form and live there for good, and then I could come and we could be together.

 

While we were talking in his car, she phoned, demanding to know in this rude tone of voice where he was and why. She sounded just like my abusive ex, talking to him as if he was her property. He said she was drunk again.

 

He said that the only way for him to get out of his relationship with her was to go away for good and close all the matters over here so that she would know he wasn't coming back. I was just so tired of the whole waiting and not knowing that it didn't make me feel any better. In the end we parted in a bit of anger without any resolution, but I wasn't feeling like I could find any resolution in that moment anyway. I was quite happy at the time to leave it open as it was and I thought he would not contact me, but he phone soon after. Things got even more complicated during this phone call as he went into one of his temper moments, saying that I would not see him any more, etc, then phoned again and apologized, said he never meant it and he loved me and couldn't lose me. I said I loved him too and we left it at that.

 

He phoned again next morning, just asking how I was and he sounded devastated but I remained indifferent. He said he'd call again but didn't and I remained silent too.

 

It has been four days, so I know it's early. I felt kind of ok at first, but today I saw him and my coping all came crashing down. The worst thing is that I can't leave home without the possibility of bumping into him or her, or them together so I can't even get away properly.

 

I didn't think it through or talk through with him, I just acted on emotions, I felt I needed a break to stop thinking about it for some time, just to rest my mind because I thought it would soon drive me insane.

 

But it' not working. I still can't stop thinking, it's not getting easier with time but the opposite. I miss him and I'm miserable. I can't imagine never talking to him again. Many questions still unanswered and it's been left hanging. I can't move on.

 

I love him.

[whichwayisup]

You can love him all you want, but he isn't your boyfriend. Love him from afar, but let go.

 

Honestly, he's made himself to be this grand ol' boy, and his partner the evil one...Don't believe all that's told you! Obviously he STILL has feelings for her, otherwise he would have ended it a long time ago.. They may not have children together, but they ARE a family. He is stepfather to her kids.

 

She's an alcoholic and gets abusive towards him, calling him awful names and put downs. Whenever she sees any signs of his drifting away she burst into tears, but otherwise doesn't seem to make any effort to make him happy or put him above the alcohol and tobacco on her list of priorities.

He's more than likely exaggerated this, or made alot of it up.

 

Anyway, grieve, call your women friends, cry and eat icecream. Stick to NC as much as you can and let yourself go through the motions of a break up. It's goign to hurt, but you will survive..

[Ellin]

Thank you Whichwayisup.

 

He's not exagerrated or made up anything about her. He was hiding all this from me at first. I know her and she does drink and smokes heavily and she is manipulative and she told me things about him behind his back, which were very rude and disrespectful.

 

He's not a stepfather to her kids. When they got together she left her kids with her husband / their father and the kids were aged about 10 and over, the husband was sick and later died.

 

I don't know what he feels for her but these are not lies.

 

Thank you again for your reply.

[whichwayisup]

OK.. Well, he still hasn't left her, so he does have feelings for her and they do share a life together.

 

Take care of you though. Call a friend and go out. Do something fun to take your mind off of him.

[bittersweet memories]

Thank you Whichwayisup.

 

He's not exagerrated or made up anything about her. He was hiding all this from me at first. I know her and she does drink and smokes heavily and she is manipulative and she told me things about him behind his back, which were very rude and disrespectful.

 

He's not a stepfather to her kids. When they got together she left her kids with her husband / their father and the kids were aged about 10 and over, the husband was sick and later died.

 

I don't know what he feels for her but these are not lies.

 

Thank you again for your reply.

 

Well no doubt he cares and maybe even loves this woman..he's not married to her, no kids, not living together but he refuses to leave her. hmmm. That speaks for itself.

[fooled once]

I agree with whichway.

 

He isn't your boyfriend.

 

If I remember correctly, this woman lives near you? Like a neighbor or something? He lives with her, right?

 

You have 3 young children. You don't need all the drama of this guy and his girlfriend. If she is as much of a drunk and abuser as he claims, you don't need this in your life.

 

And I know you don't like her, because she stands in the way of you having a relationship with him.... but she isn't standing in the way. He is CHOOSING to stay in this 'abusive' relationship. He is CHOOSING to live this way. His actions speak volumes. He isn't married to her. He has no kids with her. He has no real ties to her. yet he stays.

 

So where are her kids now since her ex is dead? This old guy is basically a 'stepfather' to those kids since they are a couple/in a relationship.

 

And what does her smoking have to do with anything? You brought it up at least 3 times. So she smokes and drinks. He stays with his smoker and drunk.

 

4 days isn't enough time for you to begin to feel better. Maybe at 4 weeks, but not 4 days.

 

I agree that you need to stay in NC mode. Don't contact him. Let him figure out his life. If he wants you to be a part of it, give him time to end the relationship FIRST. Let him clean up this mess he has made of his life (if things are as bad as he claims). Let him deal with that and maybe get some counseling to help him figure out why HE stayed in this situation as long as he has especially since they are NOT married. I know you like to think you know about their relationship -- but you really don't. Let HIM sort it out.

 

Maybe it will work out for you two, maybe not. But don't break NC. If he wants to be with you -- he will get his crap together. Your children do not need to be dragged into this mess.

 

Give yourself MORE time to begin to heal. Mourn it, cry and keep yourself busy with the kids and friends. Don't NOT go out because you might run into them. Get on with your life and don't sit around waiting for him. As much as you are hurting, your kids need you more than he does. Keep them and their needs in the forefront of your mind and hopefully, that will help you get through the days.

 

I hope he can get himself together and you and he can have some kind of future. Honestly, it doesn't sound hopeful, but I do wish you happiness.

[Ellin]

Thank you Fooled Once for your reply and wishes.

 

I assure you that I'm looking after my kids well and they are fine.

 

As far as smoking is concerned, maybe it's not the main issue, but he talked about ich much recently, because he is a light smoker and trying to quit, he asked me for support with that. She on the other hand is a chain-smoker even though she was told by a doctor to quit. She is killing herself because of her condition and when she lives with him he's also affected because he should not smoke due to his own health problems. And I hate smoking. Not the most important thing maybe but since you brought it up, this is why I mentioned it.

[fooled once]

I can tell by your posts how much you wish things were different.

 

If only we could wish things --- I would be a millionaire

 

I hope as the days go by, you can begin to heal and realize that maybe this wasn't "the" relationship for you; but you were to learn something from it? That is how I look at the Affair I was in. Of course, at the time, all I did was hurt from how much I thought we would be "perfect" for each other. He was 18 years older than me, had grown kids and was in his 2nd marriage.

 

Don't rush your grieving.....feel it, embrace it and learn from it.

 

((hug))

[Ellin]

Gosh....

 

Maybe I'm just different but NC doesn't work for me.. I doesn't get me nowhere... I just don't seem to believe in it..

 

IT SUCKS!!!!

 

But big thank you for your heartfelt advice.

[jennie-jennie]

Gosh....

 

Maybe I'm just different but NC doesn't work for me.. I doesn't get me nowhere... I just don't seem to believe in it..

 

IT SUCKS!!!!

 

But big thank you for your heartfelt advice.

 

 

I totally agree with you, Ellin. NC sucks! I would never do it voluntarily. I would not wish that pain on my worst enemy.

 

I read your original post the other day when I was in a hurry. I don't quite now what to answer to it. My MM did have ED in the very beginning of our PA. We thought it might be a medical disorder, but he certainly does not have that problem anymore, so we figure it was the guilt talking. That does add yet another difficult aspect to your relationship.

 

It is not easy being the OW, and your hopes for a change in the future are not that great either, but what do you do when you love someone?

[Ellin]

I totally agree with you, Ellin. NC sucks! I would never do it voluntarily. I would not wish that pain on my worst enemy.

 

I read your original post the other day when I was in a hurry. I don't quite now what to answer to it. My MM did have ED in the very beginning of our PA. We thought it might be a medical disorder, but he certainly does not have that problem anymore, so we figure it was the guilt talking. That does add yet another difficult aspect to your relationship.

 

It is not easy being the OW, and your hopes for a change in the future are not that great either, but what do you do when you love someone?

 

Hello again Jennie-Jennie. Missed you..

 

I guess people are all different. I could find another man, no problem. There's plenty of men out there and a lot of them are interested. But it is very rare for me to find one I would love as much as I love him. There's nothing I can do about it!

 

I can meet one who will be nice and good and single and all, but it just won't feel the same! And nothing will taste any good then.

 

I know people who function differently and they fancy and can fall in love with many. I'm not like that. I'd rather be alone than in a relationship that is just ok. And being alone is not that good, neither.

 

I love this man with all his problems and there are plenty.. I have to deal with it somehow..

 

The latest complications with his ED is I think a very crucial matter here, but I am confused about it, because there are so many issues here - his illness and the apparent problems in his R with that woman. Well, they have not had sex for years and I know that she is not happy with the situation and if she does get abusive when drunk she may well have been humiliating him in this way too. So I don't know whether he just got fed up at some point because of her behavior and then all went downhill or the physical causes came first and then she became more abusive.

 

And then the whole issue of how it has affected the relations between him and me. Obviously not in a positive way. He seemed to be devastated about it and it must be feeding his insecurities big time. Perhaps a guilt played a part, too.

 

Can you tell me more, dear Jennie, about what happened with your man? And how did you find a solution? I'd really appreciate that.

[jennie-jennie]

Get your post count up to 50 and then we can talk about it in personal messages. A bit sensitive subject you know!

[Ellin]

Get your post count up to 50 and then we can talk about it in personal messages. A bit sensitive subject you know!

I know!

 

It was hard for me to write about it as well, both because of him and other people who might be affected by reading about it. Luckily this will remain anonymous.

 

I didn't have any other choice than write about it publicly because I didn't know how many posts I need to write and how long I need to be here to be able to pm. In that case I'll contact you whenever I can.

 

Thanks for your replies and take care.

[jennie-jennie]

Hello again Jennie-Jennie. Missed you..

 

I guess people are all different. I could find another man, no problem. There's plenty of men out there and a lot of them are interested. But it is very rare for me to find one I would love as much as I love him. There's nothing I can do about it!

 

I can meet one who will be nice and good and single and all, but it just won't feel the same! And nothing will taste any good then.

 

I know people who function differently and they fancy and can fall in love with many. I'm not like that. I'd rather be alone than in a relationship that is just ok. And being alone is not that good, neither.

 

I love this man with all his problems and there are plenty.. I have to deal with it somehow..

 

I talked with my brother the other day. He has some girl going on whom he just is not that into. He really wants to meet a girl whom he can love, but those girls never love him back as much as he loves them. So meanwhile he has these relationships where he doesn't really care.

 

I just can't do it that way. I am like you, Ellin. I fall in love rarely, but when I fall I fall hard and stay with my man like forever. It would be easier if I was just a bit more like my brother, but no. So I stick it out once I find a guy I really can love.

[wheelwright]

I read this thread earlier, and didn't have an answer for you.

 

Later I re-read the title of the thread, and maybe that is easier.

 

You have to find the strength in you - the core strength that you feel in your lower stomach area. You need to stop living through him. You need to feel who you are without him.

 

Which is hard, when you are in love. Because love makes us see ourselves in our beloved's eyes, and vice versa. It is hard to make this separation. But this is the key to getting over it.

 

You are you now, and if you meet him later on, it will be on those terms.

 

And like they say, you will get through it - even if the resonance lasts a long time.

[jwi71]

Nothing will change until YOU change it Ellin.

 

HE certainly won't. SHE doesn't KNOW.

 

Up to you.

 

The more you DON'T change things the more they STAY the same.

 

Welcome to limbo. Where he won't commit to you and you won't leave him.

 

And there you have it...STUCK. And here you will remain until YOU decide to do something.

 

Got any ideas on how to win him over?

[jennie-jennie]

Got any ideas on how to win him over?

 

You can enjoy what you DO have, like you do in any relationship.

[jwi71]

You can enjoy what you DO have, like you do in any relationship.

 

Does it sound like she is enjoying herself?

[MizzBlue72]

I can give you my perspective. I lived what your xMM is going through.

 

When you live when an alcoholic, it is not only the alcoholic who becomes sick, but it is the spouse and family as well. As the spouse, your mind gets warped. You try covering for them, and you try controlling everything else around you because you know that YOUR life and the alcoholic is out of control. You become manipulative and codependant in some sick way.

 

Best thing for you is to walk away and not look back. Your xMM has a LOT of healing to do - if HE wants to truly break apart from that. That will be HIS decision.

 

I can honestly tell you that he will need support from people who have been there before (like Alanon) and that will really help him. If he does not get help, just leaves and you try to rebuild this relationship with him, you can probably expect more of the same from him.

 

It's THEIR thinking that needs adjusted, and from experience on BOTH sides (being the xspouse of alcoholic and dating a codependant) it is DRAINING and mind boggling.

 

How to walk?? You just do it and immerse yourself in other things. Surround yourself with friends that care and gt a hobby. Keep busy.

 

Good luck.

[MizzBlue72]

You can enjoy what you DO have, like you do in any relationship.

 

 

Agreed - You can NOT win him over, not in his present state. Don't even try. It's his sick thinking.

 

I feel for you - I really REALLY do. This is SO hard.

[jennie-jennie]

Does it sound like she is enjoying herself?

 

The time spent together was just like being in heaven.

 

She needs to do what every other woman should do: ask herself every day if she if she knew that her committed man would never leave his partner would still want to be in a relationship with him, ask herself if the pros of the relationship outweigh the cons. Only she can answer that. If you ask yourself this question you know you are where you want to be and should not feel fooled when/if the relationship comes to an end.

[Ellin]

I talked with my brother the other day. He has some girl going on whom he just is not that into. He really wants to meet a girl whom he can love, but those girls never love him back as much as he loves them. So meanwhile he has these relationships where he doesn't really care.

 

I just can't do it that way. I am like you, Ellin. I fall in love rarely, but when I fall I fall hard and stay with my man like forever. It would be easier if I was just a bit more like my brother, but no. So I stick it out once I find a guy I really can love.

 

I know what you mean.

 

I couldn't be in a relationship where I wouldn't care, I'd see it as a waste of my time and energy and I'd be fed up.

 

For me it's a bit like all or nothing. If I find someone I love, I give myself to it completely, and I have no interest in others and if it has to end, I can't get over it for a long, long time...

 

You're right, it would be easier to be a bit like your brother..

[Ellin]

I read this thread earlier, and didn't have an answer for you.

 

Later I re-read the title of the thread, and maybe that is easier.

 

You have to find the strength in you - the core strength that you feel in your lower stomach area. You need to stop living through him. You need to feel who you are without him.

 

Which is hard, when you are in love. Because love makes us see ourselves in our beloved's eyes, and vice versa. It is hard to make this separation. But this is the key to getting over it.

 

You are you now, and if you meet him later on, it will be on those terms.

 

And like they say, you will get through it - even if the resonance lasts a long time.

 

Hi Wheelwright, thank you for your reply.

 

It's funny how so many people's reaction to my story (not only on this forum) is "I cannot find an aswer". But yes, it's just all such a tangled net of different problems.

 

Your post was really interesting. I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you meant, but I will think about it. I really like the way you word your thoughts.

 

But you know what the feeling of being with him is like - it's like the air feels different, it's shimmering and it makes all pieces just fall perfectly into the right place... It so hard to pull away from that..

[Ellin]

I can give you my perspective. I lived what your xMM is going through.

 

When you live when an alcoholic, it is not only the alcoholic who becomes sick, but it is the spouse and family as well. As the spouse, your mind gets warped. You try covering for them, and you try controlling everything else around you because you know that YOUR life and the alcoholic is out of control. You become manipulative and codependant in some sick way.

 

Best thing for you is to walk away and not look back. Your xMM has a LOT of healing to do - if HE wants to truly break apart from that. That will be HIS decision.

 

I can honestly tell you that he will need support from people who have been there before (like Alanon) and that will really help him. If he does not get help, just leaves and you try to rebuild this relationship with him, you can probably expect more of the same from him.

 

It's THEIR thinking that needs adjusted, and from experience on BOTH sides (being the xspouse of alcoholic and dating a codependant) it is DRAINING and mind boggling.

 

How to walk?? You just do it and immerse yourself in other things. Surround yourself with friends that care and gt a hobby. Keep busy.

 

Good luck.

Hi Mizzblue,

 

Thank you for your helpful reply, I really appreciate it.

 

The first time I posted about my story, in October last year, I did mention that he showed signs of co-dependency as I had guessed and read up on that. I understand how it works and that help is neede, but I'd be grateful if you could tell me more about your won experience, both as the spouse of an alcoholic and dating a co-dependent.

 

I was also in a similar situation when I was married to a man with gambling addiction (and many other problems). I managed to get out of it. I'm not sure what I'd have done before I was able to get out, if I had met someone else, willing to help me through.

 

And what did you mean when you said that if he left her and got together with me, I'd be getting more of the same? More of what? I believe that if this was the case I would have much bigger influence on the situation and could direct him towards the help he needs.

 

How did you get out of those difficult relationships?

 

I don't want to sound too negative but just walking away is too difficult for several reasons. Some of them are: I keep seeing him and her around where I live and also I don't have many friends to surround myself with (after being in an abusive relationship for years) and can't take a hobby because I'm too tied up with my children.

 

But thank you for your suggestions.

[Agent_99]

I know what you mean.

 

I couldn't be in a relationship where I wouldn't care, I'd see it as a waste of my time and energy and I'd be fed up.

 

For me it's a bit like all or nothing. If I find someone I love, I give myself to it completely, and I have no interest in others and if it has to end, I can't get over it for a long, long time...

 

You're right, it would be easier to be a bit like your brother..

 

Ellin ~ I've been involved in an affair for almost 2 1/2 years. I've tried NC several times, intiated by me. Didn't work because I wasn't strong enough for how much it hurt me. We had a NC time initiated by her, lasted 2 weeks, it was too much for her. It was the hardest two weeks of my life.

 

I also have only really fallen in love twice. Once in my late teens and then with MW.

 

I have learned to take our relationship for what it is only, as she has always been clear that she will not leave her partner of ten years.

 

I do date other women, but so far I have not found anyone that I could love like I love her. I usually get fed up with the relationships not being 'enough'. Sad but very true.

 

I don't think it's easier to be like the brother, just more distracting.

 

My heart goes out to you. I always thought NC was a time to let go and start healing, but it hurts like crazy. The only advice I can give is to allow yourself to feel the pain. Not that, i'm guessing, you have much of a choice, it never was for me. Too overwhelming.