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Hiring someone who has been fired?


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Old 14th December 2009, 8:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
I made mistakes at my job, but really I don't think I deserved to get fired. Sorry, that's the way I feel. I don't care WHAT anyone thinks about that
But you SHOULD care because it's ruining your career!

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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post

1. I told a client where I went to high school: they said I "disclosed too much to clients." So I didn't tell any client anything else about myself.

2. I was punching in 2 minutes late sometimes, they said my attendence was bad. So I started coming in 10 minutes early everyday from the day I got put back on probation.

3. I ran down the hall once because I was late for a group and they said I had anxiety issues. So I tried to remain calm and if I did get anxious/stressed out I went in my office to calm down.

4. The way my employers phrase feedback is mainly with insults. It is not constructive. So I used to get defensive. I tried to combat that by accepting feedback and instead saying "yeah, they might be true, how might I do that differently?"
Here you go LB, these ARE the reasons why you were fired! I cannot grasp why you keep claiming that you have no idea why you were fired, you listed the reasons right there!

From your employers point of view I would bet anything that he would describe you as someone who acted unprofessionally multiple times, was often late and get very defensive when there issues were addressed.

I'm not trying to be hurtful, I just want this to get through to you because I feel like you are f*cking yourself over (for lack of a better word).

And again, I URGE you to NOT take your last job off of your resume and lie at interviews. Even if you somehow land a job doing that, you will be found out, this is a sure thing. These clinics are not huge and the professional community always has ties throughout different companies/organizations.

To make matters worse you are in an industry that requires a high level of responsibility and trust, this isn't some job at TGI Fridays, counselors are held to high standards. Once your lie is discovered you will likely be fired again.

Then your job hunt will really be difficult!
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:18 PM   #62
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But you SHOULD care because it's ruining your career!



Here you go LB, these ARE the reasons why you were fired! I cannot grasp why you keep claiming that you have no idea why you were fired, you listed the reasons right there!

From your employers point of view I would bet anything that he would describe you as someone who acted unprofessionally multiple times, was often late and get very defensive when there issues were addressed.

I'm not trying to be hurtful, I just want this to get through to you because I feel like you are f*cking yourself over (for lack of a better word).

And again, I URGE you to NOT take your last job off of your resume and lie at interviews. Even if you somehow land a job doing that, you will be found out, this is a sure thing. These clinics are not huge and the professional community always has ties throughout different companies/organizations.

To make matters worse you are in an industry that requires a high level of responsibility and trust, this isn't some job at TGI Fridays, counselors are held to high standards. Once your lie is discovered you will likely be fired again.

Then your job hunt will really be difficult!
You seem to be missing my point. Those are things I was put on probation for. BUT I fixed them ALL and was given good feedback. So I'm unsure why I was STILL fired 4 months after they had told me about these things and after I had fixed them (which they said they noticed). This is what I do not understand. But I actually did learn from them and will NOT be doing any of them at my next job. I have said this at interviews, that I have made mistakes as a new counselor but learned.

Maybe in other industries it can be found out that you did not put a job on your resume, but in social services it is rare. They do not have money or time to do extensive background checks. Most require you to get 3 clearances and you have to get them/pay for them yourself. I left a job off my resume from college in which I worked as an assistant for 4 months. I quit the job but left it off my resume because it was short term and wasn't related to counseling. No employer that has hired me since has found out about the job or that I worked at it.

Really, I get what you guys are saying but in today's economy I just don't think anybody is going to risk hiring someone who was fired. Maybe there is someone out there somewhere but I've already interviewed for 12 different companies and none have hired me. So that tells me something...
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Old 14th December 2009, 9:39 PM   #63
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You seem to be missing my point. Those are things I was put on probation for. BUT I fixed them ALL and was given good feedback. So I'm unsure why I was STILL fired 4 months after they had told me about these things and after I had fixed them (which they said they noticed). This is what I do not understand. But I actually did learn from them and will NOT be doing any of them at my next job. I have said this at interviews, that I have made mistakes as a new counselor but learned.
No, I got that. But to me, it's clear that by that time it just wasn't good enough and they decided that they would be better off with someone else.


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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
Maybe in other industries it can be found out that you did not put a job on your resume, but in social services it is rare. They do not have money or time to do extensive background checks. Most require you to get 3 clearances and you have to get them/pay for them yourself.
I wasn't referring to any sort of background checks. I'm saying is that people within an industry run in to each other and know each other, especially locally.

A person who runs a rehab clinic in PA knows others that are in that line of work. Plus, there are seminars, lectures, grant meetings, fund raisers, etc.

This is not a risk worth taking.

On a side note, is there any way you could get a letter of recommendation from a professor in the field? If so, I strongly recommend it.
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Old 14th December 2009, 10:08 PM   #64
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No, I got that. But to me, it's clear that by that time it just wasn't good enough and they decided that they would be better off with someone else.

Yeah, you are probably right about that. Like I said, I did learn things NOT to do at my next job.


I wasn't referring to any sort of background checks. I'm saying is that people within an industry run in to each other and know each other, especially locally.

A person who runs a rehab clinic in PA knows others that are in that line of work. Plus, there are seminars, lectures, grant meetings, fund raisers, etc.

This is not a risk worth taking.

On a side note, is there any way you could get a letter of recommendation from a professor in the field? If so, I strongly recommend it.
Yeah, it's a possibly that people could talk and someone could say I worked there...

I do have one of my graduate professors listed as one of my references. He said nobody has called him yet. I actually don't even think that any of these people have bothered to check my references after calling my ex employer...
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Old 14th December 2009, 10:13 PM   #65
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Yeah, it's a possibly that people could talk and someone could say I worked there...

I do have one of my graduate professors listed as one of my references. He said nobody has called him yet. I actually don't even think that any of these people have bothered to check my references after calling my ex employer...
When you have an interview somewhere, ask your references to call them directly - get the card of the person who interviewed you, and pass his/her name and contact info onto your references/your professor and have him take the initiative to contact them and say how fantastic you are.
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Old 14th December 2009, 10:16 PM   #66
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I still think you should just leave it off your resume. You could just look at that as your personal learning experience, and now you are getting your first real job.
Like you said, no one's hiring you now, so try it leaving off the job.
Just put the same references you used to get your job at your last place.
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Old 14th December 2009, 10:22 PM   #67
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LB,

Obivously saying that you got fired didn't work out for you so it's time to get creative. I would try and make my resume look like I was STILL working at the last place of employment but am looking to leave. Then they can't call your "current" boss for a check. This would have worked out much better though if you did it earlier with less time gap. Also, as soon as you were put on probation you should have started looking for another job while simulataniously improving your performance at the current job. You need to listen to actions vs words (being put on probation = VERY bad sign, someone telling you that you are doing well = meaningless). Worst case scenario is that you get found out but hey, you are obviously not getting any jobs by telling the truth.

Also, all the managers or people that hire staff on LS are never going to give you the advice of lying. Why? Because they tend to put themselves in your employer's position and they would absolutely hate to be deceived. Of course they would want you to give them full information so that they can discard you and choose a more suitable candidate (i.e. one that wasn't fired).

Really, I would try different approaches.
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Old 14th December 2009, 10:50 PM   #68
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Also, all the managers or people that hire staff on LS are never going to give you the advice of lying. Why? Because they tend to put themselves in your employer's position and they would absolutely hate to be deceived. Of course they would want you to give them full information so that they can discard you and choose a more suitable candidate (i.e. one that wasn't fired).

Really, I would try different approaches.
This is really BAD advice, you are also wrong. The reason I do not want her to lie is because she WILL BE found out and very likely fired again for the lie. With things like this the truth always comes out and if she loses the two jobs she has ever had in her field it will be extremely difficult to get hired anywhere.
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Old 15th December 2009, 1:20 AM   #69
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This is really BAD advice, you are also wrong. The reason I do not want her to lie is because she WILL BE found out and very likely fired again for the lie. With things like this the truth always comes out and if she loses the two jobs she has ever had in her field it will be extremely difficult to get hired anywhere.
I agree - if the field she's working in does background checks, and is concerned with meeting standards of professionalism, trust, responsibility, judgement, etc. then you're just tying off a rope that will eventually hang you. Leaving out a pertinent prior position is a serious enough concern, but actually misrepresenting something (like indicating you still work there so they won't check...) will just scream "bad judgement, do not trust" once it is found out - which there's a decent chance it will. Then things will be even worse.
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Old 15th December 2009, 2:29 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Lauriebell
There was no warning I was to be fired....
That doesn't make sense when you then say this:

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Originally Posted by Lauriebell82 View Post
Reasons I was put on probatation...
Probation is a clear sign that you're in real danger of getting fired.
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Old 15th December 2009, 10:24 AM   #71
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Probation is a clear sign that you're in real danger of getting fired.
Yeah I know, that's what I thought too! After it happened I sat down with my supervisor and asked him if my job was in danger and was going to get fired. He said no, that I was lightyears away from being fired. I asked why he put me back on probation then and he said, "oh it's just so you can improve." It didn't make much sense to me but I was worried. So I worked my butt off to improve upon the things they told me so I WOULDN'T get fired. I asked my supervisors repeatedly during my probation how I was doing and if my job was in danger. They told me no, that I was doing well.

I actually did start looking for a new job after being put on probation but did not get any call backs for interviews at the time unfortunately.

It did cross my mind to say I still work at my current job but that is a very risky lie, moreso then leaving it off my resume. That's very unethical to do also, it's not unethical to leave a job off your resume. People do that all the time.
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Old 15th December 2009, 11:03 AM   #72
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LB,

Obivously saying that you got fired didn't work out for you so it's time to get creative. I would try and make my resume look like I was STILL working at the last place of employment but am looking to leave. Then they can't call your "current" boss for a check. This would have worked out much better though if you did it earlier with less time gap. Also, as soon as you were put on probation you should have started looking for another job while simulataniously improving your performance at the current job. You need to listen to actions vs words (being put on probation = VERY bad sign, someone telling you that you are doing well = meaningless). Worst case scenario is that you get found out but hey, you are obviously not getting any jobs by telling the truth.

Also, all the managers or people that hire staff on LS are never going to give you the advice of lying. Why? Because they tend to put themselves in your employer's position and they would absolutely hate to be deceived. Of course they would want you to give them full information so that they can discard you and choose a more suitable candidate (i.e. one that wasn't fired).

Really, I would try different approaches.

I agree with you... Truth will not get her a job.. I think this is a good scenario.. has a job but looking for something more challenging.

My best female friend had a career (now retired) based on lies she told at the interview... she said she had experience in supervising staff (or something similar)... she got the job.. she had never supervised anyone.. ... she had a great career...

I know other people who lied and got good jobs...

Don,t worry.. just be well prepared.. like Sad said.. you don't have a job anyway.. you got nothing to lose..

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Old 15th December 2009, 11:09 AM   #73
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I agree with you... Truth will not get her a job.. I think this is a good scenario.. has a job but looking for something more challenging.

My best female friend had a career (now retired) based on lies she told at the interview... she said she had experience in supervising staff (or something similar)... she got the job.. she had never supervised anyone.. ... she had a great career...

I know other people who lied and got good jobs...

Don,t worry.. just be well prepared.. like Sad said.. you don't have a job anyway.. you got nothing to lose..

I know I have nothing to lose but that's a pretty big lie. The other problem is that most of the places I have applied now I have either left it off my resume or put on there an end date for leaving my job. So they might be able to look up my resume and see that I had an end date and now I don't. That just makes me nervous...
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Old 15th December 2009, 11:30 AM   #74
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I know I have nothing to lose but that's a pretty big lie. The other problem is that most of the places I have applied now I have either left it off my resume or put on there an end date for leaving my job. So they might be able to look up my resume and see that I had an end date and now I don't. That just makes me nervous...
Again, I think you're making a big mistake by doctoring your employment history. This has nothing to do with my sympathizing with management; it's just that lying is something that will be exposed later and then you might have to explain why you've been terminated from two jobs in a row.

I don't think that the fact that you were terminated is the reason you're not getting the jobs. I think it's that when you explain your situation, you might be coming off as defensive about your termination. I understand that you believe you were let go unfairly but getting a job and keeping it really has nothing to do with fair or unfair. You have to be focused and objective. The fact is, employers are going to be a little suspicious of someone who has been terminated; however, you can overcome that suspicion if you handle it the right way. Interviewees who can find one thing -- just one thing -- that they learned from their last experience and put a positive spin on it can overcome the skepticism of any interviewer. However, if you say "It wasn't my fault" or "I really disagreed with them, I thought they handled it unprofessionally"...then you're going to be seen as someone who brings negative energy into the office. That's not the kind of person they're looking for.
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Old 15th December 2009, 11:37 AM   #75
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Again, I think you're making a big mistake by doctoring your employment history. This has nothing to do with my sympathizing with management; it's just that lying is something that will be exposed later and then you might have to explain why you've been terminated from two jobs in a row.

I don't think that the fact that you were terminated is the reason you're not getting the jobs. I think it's that when you explain your situation, you might be coming off as defensive about your termination. I understand that you believe you were let go unfairly but getting a job and keeping it really has nothing to do with fair or unfair. You have to be focused and objective. The fact is, employers are going to be a little suspicious of someone who has been terminated; however, you can overcome that suspicion if you handle it the right way. Interviewees who can find one thing -- just one thing -- that they learned from their last experience and put a positive spin on it can overcome the skepticism of any interviewer. However, if you say "It wasn't my fault" or "I really disagreed with them, I thought they handled it unprofessionally"...then you're going to be seen as someone who brings negative energy into the office. That's not the kind of person they're looking for.
Yeah I understand where you are coming from. I have never said in an interview though that "it wasn't my fault" or that "I disagreed with their decision." Actually I have said the opposite, that I learned from the experience and understand what I could have done differently. I try to say it as positively as I can.

Do you have a suggestion on what to say?
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