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Being selfish


Spirituality & Religious Beliefs Contemplate your place and purpose in the universe.

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Old 19th June 2017, 8:05 PM   #31
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Just wanted to point out that this forum covers spirituality and religious beliefs and *all* topical content offered within our guidelines is welcomed here. Hence, in the starting post, 'god' can be freely replaced with any spiritually or religiously relevant concept or entity.

Do we sometimes commit acts because we want to and know we'll be forgiven even though we feel at the time that the act is wrong by our personal standards of behavior?

That's pretty much it. Thanks!
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Old 19th June 2017, 8:32 PM   #32
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Just wanted to point out that this forum covers spirituality and religious beliefs and *all* topical content offered within our guidelines is welcomed here. Hence, in the starting post, 'god' can be freely replaced with any spiritually or religiously relevant concept or entity.

Do we sometimes commit acts because we want to and know we'll be forgiven even though we feel at the time that the act is wrong by our personal standards of behavior?

That's pretty much it. Thanks!

Hmmm. But that's not what my question was. My question wasn't a moral or spiritual question, it was one that specifically relates to God.. I respect the fact that anyone can give an input but to say:

"There is no god. You should worry about what this 'sin' does to real people. That should be the guideline here."

Insults my belief in God which I clearly stated in my question, changes the question to what they think I SHOUlD believe in ("real people") and basically disrespects my original question.

If I wanted a debate on if God exists, what would he do.....I would have asked that.
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Old 19th June 2017, 9:00 PM   #33
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Hmmm. But that's not what my question was. My question wasn't a moral or spiritual question, it was one that specifically relates to God.. I respect the fact that anyone can give an input but to say:

"There is no god. You should worry about what this 'sin' does to real people. That should be the guideline here."

Insults my belief in God which I clearly stated in my question, changes the question to what they think I SHOUlD believe in ("real people") and basically disrespects my original question.

If I wanted a debate on if God exists, what would he do.....I would have asked that.
I'm sorry, I hope my replies didn't offend you.
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Old 19th June 2017, 9:19 PM   #34
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Not at all Mercy. You were kind, thoughtful and made some good points.
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Old 20th June 2017, 7:19 AM   #35
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For the purposes of this thread the OP has specified that she is directing her question to those of the Christian faith.

Input and experiences from those of other faiths are welcome as long as they are on-topic to the question posed which as I understand it is "Would you knowingly choose to do something that is considered a sin because you believe that you will be forgiven for it later?"

Posts questioning the validity of a certain religion or the existence of God are off topic for this thread but there are several threads on those topics elsewhere in this forum. ~T

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Old 20th June 2017, 3:08 PM   #36
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alieD, I'm not sure I would call sinning because I know I'll be forgiven selfish, but I would certainly call it self-serving and disingenuous. And sadly, whether consciously or unconsciously, we have probably all done some form of it. I mean "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" is actually a saying.

The saddest case of this I know of was a girl who was a college classmate. She was from a small southern town with parents who were basically social climbers. You know, small spot on the map, one country club, basically "The Help" set in the 1980's. She had a boyfriend who was "beneath her" and got pregnant. Her mother forced her to have an abortion because of "what the town would think," and told her it would be okay because God would forgive her and she could always have another baby anyway.

That woman made me physically ill. But then again, at least she was honest - blech.
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Old 20th June 2017, 3:27 PM   #37
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God is a forgiving god. I know this

But what if you do something you know you shouldn't do, but want to do it anyway because you know God will forgive you ?
I remember sitting on my porch listening to one of my brothers talk about his divorce. He was feeling torn and was drinking...not in a good place. He went on and on about how it wasn't right in God's eyes, yet he knew it was the right thing to do for himself and his wife.

I listened and said to him finally...what do you think about everything we do matters and at the same time, doesn't matter at all?
Well, he looked at me and said, yep, I understand that.

What we do does matter, any person with a conscience knows this.

Yet, in the scheme of things, the end result will be the same. No, my brother did not have the power to set the universes and all of creation or even his ex wife lopsided by his actions. Neither would any person.

What he was pondering in these moments and his actions were important for who he is and who he wants to be.

I agree that using religion as a cloak/shield to manipulate others in order to achieve sin is an old a weapon as religion itself.

I would not agree that a true believer would do so, or that God isn't smart enough to know the difference.
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Old 21st June 2017, 9:02 AM   #38
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God is a forgiving god. I know this

But what if you do something you know you shouldn't do, but want to do it anyway because you know God will forgive you ?
This is a dreadful frame of mind. I do not believe that God will forgive the intentional sinner. If someone sins presuming forgiveness, it will not be given. True repentance will assure forgiveness, BUT the person who has committed these sins must make earnest recompense for them. I truly see no other way to begin to rationalize God's willingness to forgive otherwise.

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I would not agree that a true believer would do so, or that God isn't smart enough to know the difference.
A 'true' believer would not. But we have these discussions b/c that 'true' believer is rare and most our experience involves professed believers who are both flawed and manipulative. If there is a God, of course he knows the difference, but the question is, is he righteous in his dealings with sinners, believer or not?

I aways say that professed believers, most perhaps, are not too concerned nor truly believe that they will have to answer for their sins. I think too many believe they have time to repent, however simple they think that act is, before its their time, so they continue dealing in this world w/o concern. I have found very few people of faith who live by the 'golden rule.' Very few.
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Old 21st June 2017, 9:19 AM   #39
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AileD...Dont we all intentionally sin? How many of us have told a lie....or cheated on taxes....or gossiped about another person? Many of us have done those things knowing that God's grace covers us.

I cheated on my husband...i certainly did not do it BECAUSE I knew i would be forgiven....but as a christian I beleive I am indeed forgiven.

Is this what you are talking about or did i completely miss the point? (it would not be the first time...lol)
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Old 21st June 2017, 8:13 PM   #40
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I don't know . I was just upset and pissed that my husband who claimed to turn over a new leaf spiritually and In our marriage, after many many many many many talks from him about how God doesn't want us to divorce and marriage is a covenant and divorce would be against God, all the while he's talking to his AP on the phone behind my back. He Knew it was wrong, and he made a conscious decision to do it anyway. Why didn't he just divorce me for craps sake? Can't pick and choose what you're going to follow. He was selfish and he made that conscious decision over and over and over. I guess it's like stealing. Maybe he's really sorry. Who knows
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Old 21st June 2017, 10:20 PM   #41
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Thanks for posting. This part helped me:



"A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31; John 6:37; John 14:6). That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always."

There no humbleness in repenting sin when you intend to do that sin again.
aileD, I'm tuning in to this thread late but looked up the texts in the quote above:

Acts 16:31 " They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
John 6:37 "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."
John 14:6 "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Seems to me they're talking about Jesus being the way to salvation but not saying once saved always saved... I found these other texts...

Jesus said, "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)

Jesus said, “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:5,6

“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die....26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. Ezekiel 18:24-28 (I need to check and be sure I have the text right for the first part, is in Ezekiel but not sure it's 24).

Many texts in the Bible teach that we have salvation by accepting Christ and following Him. As we abide in Him then we continue in salvation. But, God always allows us the freedom not to choose Him. We can turn away from him anytime we decide we no longer want to abide in Him.

Judas is one example of someone who accepted Jesus and then chose not to stay with Him.

I do believe that God forgives any sin we ask forgiveness for because 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to purify us from all unrighteousness."

King David committed both adultery and murder, intentional sins, and yet was forgiven. God called him "a man after my own heart" after he had committed these sins and asked for forgiveness.

But, he also suffered grave consequences for his sins of adultery and murder, even though he asked for forgiveness in Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, Oh, God...." Read the whole 51st chapter of David's anguished cry of confession and repentance!

The consequences He suffered were the loss of respect from his subjects. And his own son, Absalom, went to war against him trying to take the kingdom from him.

So we sin and God forgives. But, we suffer the consequences of our sins. Seems to me God is wanting to teach us to learn to abide in Him so that we have His power in us to keep us from sinning; a journey we take in the Christian life, learning to abide (not walk away when we are tempted) in Christ.

Last edited by LivingWaterPlease; 22nd June 2017 at 1:51 AM..
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Old 22nd June 2017, 5:34 PM   #42
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A 'true' believer would not. But we have these discussions b/c that 'true' believer is rare and most our experience involves professed believers who are both flawed and manipulative. If there is a God, of course he knows the difference, but the question is, is he righteous in his dealings with sinners, believer or not?

I aways say that professed believers, most perhaps, are not too concerned nor truly believe that they will have to answer for their sins. I think too many believe they have time to repent, however simple they think that act is, before its their time, so they continue dealing in this world w/o concern. I have found very few people of faith who live by the 'golden rule.' Very few.
As this is aileD's thread, won't say much but do agree.
To say that 'God is smart enough' speaks for itself, which I am sure isn't lost on aileD.

Aile, faith is inside or else nothing.
I think that you are/have been sorting important stuff.
Best to you, your children and family.

For the love of....imo, God is not a he or she. How insulting to God....lol, for the alpha/omega...first and last to be leveled to gender, phfft. : )

Last edited by Timshel; 22nd June 2017 at 5:45 PM.. Reason: simpleNfit,general/not aileD
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Old 29th June 2017, 7:17 PM   #43
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So I don't follow the christian 'god' specifically - but I can speak in that language and the bible speaks a lot of truths so I will use a quote from it to show my point. From my direct experience with sin - the repercussions are directly inline with your knowledge of whether what you did is right or wrong. I've had some run ins with the universe \ 'god' ..... and lets just say things escalate when you know what your doing is wrong and do it anyway. Not a wise thing to do. Karma for ones actions takes into account circumstances - past behavior - why you did what you did - was it a moment of weakness or carefully planned etc etc. Its not a simple black and white answer.

The one who does wrong without fully understanding the gravity and consequences of their actions will usually be punished less harshly. Those who fully understand and do it anyway will get the severe treatment. Sure 'god' will forgive you ..... but not without adequate repercussions for your actions first. You need to understand that - the payoff is inevitable not worth what follows.

To quote Luke 12:47 which I think explains this clearly:
"That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded"

To paraphrase .... don't test me - if you try and pull a fast one I will give you a proper smack down

Last edited by Justanaverageguy; 29th June 2017 at 7:30 PM..
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Old 29th June 2017, 7:55 PM   #44
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So I don't follow the christian 'god' specifically - but I can speak in that language and the bible speaks a lot of truths so I will use a quote from it to show my point. From my direct experience with sin - the repercussions are directly inline with your knowledge of whether what you did is right or wrong. I've had some run ins with the universe \ 'god' ..... and lets just say things escalate when you know what your doing is wrong and do it anyway. Not a wise thing to do. Karma for ones actions takes into account circumstances - past behavior - why you did what you did - was it a moment of weakness or carefully planned etc etc. Its not a simple black and white answer.

The one who does wrong without fully understanding the gravity and consequences of their actions will usually be punished less harshly. Those who fully understand and do it anyway will get the severe treatment. Sure 'god' will forgive you ..... but not without adequate repercussions for your actions first. You need to understand that - the payoff is inevitable not worth what follows.

To quote Luke 12:47 which I think explains this clearly:
"That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded"

To paraphrase .... don't test me - if you try and pull a fast one I will give you a proper smack down

you know when i have a really bad time i wonder why i am copping so many knocks .....thinking i am cursed ......thinking just kill me already or let me kill myself.....i can not take all this...at once...spread it out a little.....god help me......
and i go down deep to search for hope and strength....because i try so hard to be good.....i try to be more forgiving more gentle more lenient to those who hurt me...i try to help those who would step all over me...... and i just keep copping it.....so that luke verse ..among others...confuses me a little....

and then i stop....and i try to center myself.go deeper..and i get a warm feeling that radiates from my chest(actually my chest)..its also where i feel emotional pain...and i know ...i am doing my best by god and by others...i am keeping convenants no matter how hard they are to keep........no matter how hellish my life gets..and it is often hellish..its not god punishing me.....at all......i cant believe that....i will not believe that..deb
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Old 29th June 2017, 10:19 PM   #45
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God is a forgiving god. I know this

But what if you do something you know you shouldn't do, but want to do it anyway because you know God will forgive you ?
Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm not the most religious person around....

If you are of the Christian persuasion, I remember this verse from Romans 6... "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

I also remember something from Romans 7... "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing."

I think the point of this is that while you want to do right, you also want to do wrong. It's like you have two natures. And sometimes the bad nature wins, so you have to comfort yourself with the knowledge that you are already forgiven and can try again. But if you have the will (or the help) to avoid doing the wrong thing, you ought to choose the right thing to do. But being forgiven isn't ever a good reason to do the wrong thing, just because you can.
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