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Blaming God or Religion or is it Both?


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I do not understand why people that don't believe in God blame God for negative things of the world.

 

 

Religion vs. cults vs. branches of other religions. Why do all religions receive blame for negative actions of individuals or groups of individuals?

 

 

It seems impossible at times, to try explaining, to a person that doesn't believe in God that asks why God allows such bad things in the world to happen. Do they not understand the concept of freedom?

 

 

I try to better understand another's point of view by asking questions. Yet it doesn't seem the same thing is happening from a none believer's side. A lot times questions from people that don't believe in God use questions in a form of attack? Not really wanting to receive an answer to better understand but to complain. Though I might be wrong. It is just how I am perceiving things written by others.

 

 

Without understanding God. Won't the blaming of God and religion continue? How are we as people on this earth going to be able to get along with one another without understanding another's point of view?

 

 

Words like Judging, faith, belief, ect.. are used as if those words only pertain to religion or believers in God. Why? God is discussed quite often and takes blame for many things. No blame seems to ever be given to the opposition to God (satan) by people that do not believe in God.

 

 

I am a very curious person and like to resolve problems. I am not sure how to resolve this problem. There are things that seem to not be taken into consideration by a person who doesn't believe in God.

 

 

I have lots of questions for people that do not believe in God. Like faults found in scientific theories, or why some what me to prove to them that God exists? I wonder have those that don't believe in God ever used the tools given them to find God for them selves?(that is if they have been given tools) What is so offensive about, faith, love, charity, kindness, forgiveness, chastity, ect...? Without being able to explain these things. How is the blaming of God and religion going to be resolved? Seems to be similar to racism. Isn't understanding needed to compromise and resolve conflict?

 

 

I don't know. I have many of my own answers to these questions but like to receive replies. Even though replies may come in many forms negative, positive, or other! Just looking for other point of views and alternative ideas i guess.

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Its important to remain open in conversation, and I was pleased to read that you share that method.

 

For walking this earth over 50 years and both living in some very Trying and sometimes violent times...I did question that from a believers stance.

 

I honestly vacillate between the Loving God who in his time balances out matters, and the God who is for lack of a better word, sadistic. Who allows their child to be laden with illness, hunger, heartaches, just to be set as an example of his almighty powers? Where is the mercy?

 

So while I sit and listen to agnostics or various faiths, I often question the reality of the environment and the litany of faith .

 

I am 100% convinced God has a sense of humor that one day I will sit back and laugh about...for now....its hard to find imagine....

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Mr Scorpio

Why do all religions receive blame for negative actions of individuals or groups of individuals?

 

Because the logic (or lack thereof to the non-believer) is the same.

 

It is certainly true that -- at leastin modern times -- more severe negative actions seem to be committed by Muslims as opposed to Christians. However, religious violence is not exclusive to Islam.

 

Moreover, the non-believer would attribute the lack of violence committed by Christians to factors other than Christianity in and of itself. Certainly, plenty of blood was spilled in the name of Christ prior to the age of enlightenment. To the non-believer, the age of enlightenment is entirely antithetical to theism of any sort.

 

Personally, I take the same approach towards theists as many Christians do towards homosexuals. I don't "hate" adherents of any faith. Moreover, I don't even hate the faith. However, I do disapprove of it, albeit not that strongly.

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endlessabyss

When I get through the million books I already have, I am going to purchase this:

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence/dp/0307957047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432850629&sr=8-1&keywords=karen+Armstrong

 

 

There are many variables at play in violence. Religion can be responsible some of the time, but most the time it is the fault of other things.

 

 

Radicals claim religion is some type of root of all the violence in the world, but even if religion disappeared tomorrow, violence would still exist.

 

 

One of the greatest, agnostic historians ever, Will Durant, claimed that religion has done way more good for society than harm.

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Cameron2000
I do not understand why people that don't believe in God blame God for negative things of the world.

 

 

Religion vs. cults vs. branches of other religions. Why do all religions receive blame for negative actions of individuals or groups of individuals?

 

 

It seems impossible at times, to try explaining, to a person that doesn't believe in God that asks why God allows such bad things in the world to happen. Do they not understand the concept of freedom?

 

 

I try to better understand another's point of view by asking questions. Yet it doesn't seem the same thing is happening from a none believer's side. A lot times questions from people that don't believe in God use questions in a form of attack? Not really wanting to receive an answer to better understand but to complain. Though I might be wrong. It is just how I am perceiving things written by others.

 

 

Without understanding God. Won't the blaming of God and religion continue? How are we as people on this earth going to be able to get along with one another without understanding another's point of view?

 

 

Words like Judging, faith, belief, ect.. are used as if those words only pertain to religion or believers in God. Why? God is discussed quite often and takes blame for many things. No blame seems to ever be given to the opposition to God (satan) by people that do not believe in God.

 

 

I am a very curious person and like to resolve problems. I am not sure how to resolve this problem. There are things that seem to not be taken into consideration by a person who doesn't believe in God.

 

 

I have lots of questions for people that do not believe in God. Like faults found in scientific theories, or why some what me to prove to them that God exists? I wonder have those that don't believe in God ever used the tools given them to find God for them selves?(that is if they have been given tools) What is so offensive about, faith, love, charity, kindness, forgiveness, chastity, ect...? Without being able to explain these things. How is the blaming of God and religion going to be resolved? Seems to be similar to racism. Isn't understanding needed to compromise and resolve conflict?

 

 

I don't know. I have many of my own answers to these questions but like to receive replies. Even though replies may come in many forms negative, positive, or other! Just looking for other point of views and alternative ideas i guess.

 

 

If unbelievers are asking questions in an attempt to attack your faith then it is to be expected. I don't think Christians have a right to expect that people who don't claim to be followers of Christ exhibit Christ like attitudes when asking questions. If a person does not claim to be a Christian then don't expect them to act like a Christian. If an atheist is asking questions with a mocking attitude then it is to be expected. The progressing Christian is held to a higher expectation to exhibit humility in their attitudes during religious discussions.

 

To expect that an unbeliever to have a Christ like attitude is like expecting a civilian to act like a Marine. It is to be expected that a civilian mindset about the world is going to be very different than a Marine's mindset. Those who sign up for the Marines are held to a higher standard of conduct than civilians. The same as those who sign up to be followers of Christ.

Edited by Cameron2000
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todreaminblue

Satan wanted to take away our agency.......gods plan relied on it....god won...there are bad things that happen...really quite evil things.....and those are man made...agency to do evil...the destruction of the natural world....well thats man's again.....the agency to nurture and replenish or destruct and rape the earth to be bereft from natural resources..........our earth and mother natures natural disasters.....happen for a reason...however terrifying they are.....they exist...no use blaming god for them.......

 

i love though after natural or man made disasters.....like 9/11 for example.....disasters...you get to see the power and god given grace of the human heart in those that help however they can.....the union of souls to save others to comfort to defend and protect...a world united..........and then you see the other side......and again human agency to pillage a disaster area............we choose......to do right or wrong......as people given agency......cant blame god for that.......you can however....blame us when we choose to hurt others......or kill or rape or steal or rob or maim....god also gives us a gift for those who suffer as equally as for those who choose to do wrong i...........he gave us his only begotten son....to look up and to revere.....to aspire to grow to hope to love again our lives as they are and what they will be...and to love our scars ......to wear them well..... ....ultimately to live our lives in the knowledge what we do what we go through and where we end up isnt to be just dust and bones buried beneath the earth......but to sit and talk with the being that created us....to see his son who died for us.....and finally....to be judged for our lives and what we chose to do with the breath and bones and hearts we were given......adn there will always eb opposition to knowing truth as long as there is deceit......the two go hand in hand.........deb

Edited by todreaminblue
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Its important to remain open in conversation, and I was pleased to read that you share that method.

 

 

I try to do what I can to understand another's point of view. I am not always the best at this. Sometimes I think I ask questions in the wrong manner, and the question gets misinterpreted. Still developing an open mind.:-) I feel it is important. Especially in the United States were there is so much diversity. i try to make it a point to say to myself is that possible or true. I then research and have even more questions! :-)

 

For walking this earth over 50 years and both living in some very Trying and sometimes violent times...I did question that from a believers stance.

 

 

Were these questions you would ask yourself or from believers?

 

I honestly vacillate between the Loving God who in his time balances out matters, and the God who is for lack of a better word, sadistic. Who allows their child to be laden with illness, hunger, heartaches, just to be set as an example of his almighty powers? Where is the mercy?

 

 

Yes, yes these are the types of questions i would like to answer! Though it seems i very rarely get such questions asked of me. Even still i wonder if the question is just a rhetorical one from others! What clues are there, to know if a question is rhetorical?

 

So while I sit and listen to agnostics or various faiths, I often question the reality of the environment and the litany of faith .

 

 

Do you ask the those questions? What were your responses if you did ask?

 

I am 100% convinced God has a sense of humor that one day I will sit back and laugh about...for now....its hard to find imagine....

 

 

Ahhhh! A fresh perspective! I am glad you responded. It feels good to get feed back!

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Quiet Storm
I have lots of questions for people that do not believe in God. Like faults found in scientific theories, or why some what me to prove to them that God exists?

 

I don't believe in God, and I certainly don't expect anyone to prove to me that God exists. I accept that believers have faith, and that I don't share that faith. If there are faults in science, it's quite a leap to take that as evidence of God. But if you are a believer, I can see why you would say that. You have faith.

 

 

I wonder have those that don't believe in God ever used the tools given them to find God for them selves?(that is if they have been given tools)

 

I was raised Catholic and was sent to church and CCD class, but it didn't work on me. Even at age 5, I just did not believe what others told me about religion or God. I felt like everyone in my church was being fooled, and I would think "Why do they believe this?" as I sat in church. I confessed to my mom, who told me I was going to hell. So I was never motivated to find God. I never needed him or prayer in my life.

 

What is so offensive about, faith, love, charity, kindness, forgiveness, chastity, ect...?

 

Nothing offends me about those things. I raise my kids with many of the same Christian values- kindness, golden rule, don't steal, cheat, etc. But I just don't add the religious element. They are raised in a loving, intact family. They are good kids because we raised them to be good kids, not because they fear hell or seek eternal life or salvation. We raise them to be accountable to themselves and have personal integrity.

 

I don't cheat on my husband because I'm not a cheater. I don't lie because I'm not a liar. I don't steal because I'm not a thief. If I did those things, I'd be betraying my personal standards and values. I don't need religion to keep me true to my values. I don't need God's forgiveness or the promise of heaven to be good.

 

So I don't think faith, love, charity, kindness, forgiveness, chastity are offensive...but what I don't understand is people who feel religion is necessary to have those values. You can be a good person, raise good kids, have a happy life, cope well with life's problems... without God.

 

Without being able to explain these things. How is the blaming of God and religion going to be resolved? Seems to be similar to racism. Isn't understanding needed to compromise and resolve conflict?

 

I think it's just about acceptance and tolerance. I raise my kids to respect all other religions, but it seems that Christians do not always respect non believers. For example, when my son heard from a kid at school about Jesus rising from the dead, he asked me if Jesus was a zombie. And I said "That is very disrespectful. Don't ever say that to someone who believes." Yet when my children say they don't believe, they'll get told by other kids they're going to hell. My kids are biracial, and they have faced more judgment for being atheists than being mixed.

 

My sister does believe in God, but because she is bisexual and has a GF at the moment, some of my extremely religious cousins are condemning her (these are Church of God type Christians), while my Catholic side of the family is loving and accepting of her. Why is that? Why does it seem that some Christians are just so judgmental? My sister was sexually abused as a child and faced many problems, and these Christians accepted her. She has stolen from family members (they accepted her). She is an alcoholic and an addict (they accepted her). She lost custody of her child (they accepted her). She had multiple married boyfriends (they accepted her). But because she has a girlfriend- they are bullying her on facebook, talking behind her back and excluding her from baby showers & cookouts. It's crazy.

 

I do accept that people have faith and respect that, even if it doesn't make sense to me. That's what everyone should do.

Edited by Quiet Storm
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Ahhhh! A fresh perspective! I am glad you responded. It feels good to get feed back!

 

Digdug, So pleased that you are questioning and reading here. As I peruse some of the answers, its been with a humble heart that says...as varying as we are in our thoughts and beliefs, so long as we maintain regard, things roll along.

 

What specific questions are you struggling to resolve? Creationism? Policies in religions?

 

As Quiet Storm mentioned her faith lays in her ability to parent properly and be a good citizen. There is something to be said for that life choice and she recognized it at a young age.

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Quiet Storm

I admit that when I was a young atheist, I wasn't always respectful. I felt superior, as I knew something they did not. But as I matured, I realized that was wrong. Christians sometimes do the same thing, they'll pity me and pray for me, because I'm dumb - in their minds, God is real and I'm stupid for not believing that.

 

I genuinely believe that there is no God, and when we die, there is no heaven. I believe that we live on, but we live in the memories of our children and loved ones.

 

There is an old Billie Holiday song, and I want it played at my funeral because it's so true (for me), in that I see my loved ones who have died, in different things around me. I see my Pop laughing when I eat steamed crabs. I see Granny when I make many of our meals, because she taught me how to cook. I see my mother in law in the stars, because she loved astrology. I know I'm not going to heaven, but while I'm alive, I'm making memories with those that I love, and that is how my spirit will live on.

 

 

 

I'll be seeing you

In all the old familiar places

That this heart of mine embraces

All day through.

 

In that small cafe;

The park across the way;

The children's carousel;

The chestnut trees;

The wishin' well.

 

I'll be seeing you

In every lovely summer's day;

In every thing that's light and gay.

I'll always think of you that way.

 

I'll find you

In the morning sun

And when the night is new.

I'll be looking at the moon,

But I'll be seeing you.

 

I'll be seeing you

In every lovely summer's day;

In every thing that's light and gay.

I'll always think of you that way.

 

I'll find you

In the morning sun

And when the night is new.

I'll be looking at the moon,

But I'll be seeing you.

 

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pureinheart
I do not understand why people that don't believe in God blame God for negative things of the world.

 

 

 

I don't either. If one does not take God seriously or believes that He does not exist... well, need I say more?

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endlessabyss
I admit that when I was a young atheist, I wasn't always respectful. I felt superior, as I knew something they did not. But as I matured, I realized that was wrong. Christians sometimes do the same thing, they'll pity me and pray for me, because I'm dumb - in their minds, God is real and I'm stupid for not believing that.

 

I genuinely believe that there is no God, and when we die, there is no heaven. I believe that we live on, but we live in the memories of our children and loved ones.

 

There is an old Billie Holiday song, and I want it played at my funeral because it's so true (for me), in that I see my loved ones who have died, in different things around me. I see my Pop laughing when I eat steamed crabs. I see Granny when I make many of our meals, because she taught me how to cook. I see my mother in law in the stars, because she loved astrology. I know I'm not going to heaven, but while I'm alive, I'm making memories with those that I love, and that is how my spirit will live on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

I believe the complete opposite though.

 

 

I know their is a Creator God, and one day I will shed this body that limits my spirit. I will be free from all the pain and suffering, the loneliness, the lack of love, the corruptness, the deception, the greed, the lust, the hurt, the sin.

 

 

I will go back, and be accepted by my Maker, and have all my deepest questions answered.

 

 

I yearn for that day.

Edited by endlessabyss
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Because the logic (or lack thereof to the non-believer) is the same.

 

 

Can you elaborate on what logic is the same?

 

 

It is certainly true that -- at leastin modern times -- more severe negative actions seem to be committed by Muslims as opposed to Christians. However, religious violence is not exclusive to Islam.

 

 

Ya, this is were I have troubles! According to what I understand about the Qur'an. Muslims should be a peaceful people. Though I am forgetting that there are split offs from traditional Muslim faith. Which is the case for most of today's religions. Not to say there weren't many religious split offs predating Jesus Christ. I am just not positive if it is really a religious thing or a power seeking issue.(also relating to any called religious wars in history)

 

Moreover, the non-believer would attribute the lack of violence committed by Christians to factors other than Christianity in and of itself. Certainly, plenty of blood was spilled in the name of Christ prior to the age of enlightenment. To the non-believer, the age of enlightenment is entirely antithetical to theism of any sort.

 

 

I am not to familiar with the age of enlightenment philosophy other than Karl Marx and one other guy who's name now slips my mind. What or how does age of enlightenment differ from theism?

 

Do you know of any society every in the world's history that was not influenced by religion or belief in God, or Gods? As far as I know religion goes back before the beginning of the Egyptian culture. I cannot find any society in history that was completely atheist. I ask because I do not know! What I do know is that atheism predated Jesus Christ birth on earth. I am unaware of any successful culture or society that was completely atheist. Do you have this information? Maybe I am just looking in the wrong places.

 

 

I apologize for late response. Currently there are some family matters that is taking up a lot of my time. Usually I have more time to read and reply. I am just to tired to write anymore. I would really like to discuss this with you as you seem to have more knowledge on this subject.

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Mr Scorpio

Can you elaborate on what logic is the same?

 

You had asked "Why do all religions receive blame for negative actions of individuals or groups of individuals?". I am assuming that you are asking why an atheist would blame religion as a whole for the actions of, say, Muslim extremists.

 

The logic (for lack of a better term) is the same for the non-believer because the terrorist beheads an infidel to please a non-existent entity who passed down commands thousands of years ago when many people couldn't even read them. The Christian votes against gay-marriage for the same basic reason.

 

I am just not positive if it is really a religious thing or a power seeking issue.(also relating to any called religious wars in history)

 

I don't doubt that -- even if religion were somehow eradicated tomorrow -- that there would still be wars. Wars over resources, wars over political disputes, wars over soccer. Humans will find a reason to create another "out-group" to attack.

 

But, to use a rather obtuse comparison, would you say that heroin shouldn't be condemned, just because people could find some other way to get high?

 

I am not to familiar with the age of enlightenment philosophy other than Karl Marx and one other guy who's name now slips my mind. What or how does age of enlightenment differ from theism?

 

The age of enlightenment is generally accepted to have been from the mid-15th century to the end of the 16th century. Karl Marx wasn't even born for another hundred years.

 

I'm guessing that whatever association you have between the two was suggested by someone who wanted to compare Marx (which most Americans consider "bad") with enlightenment (which I suppose some Christians might consider "bad).

 

Marx was a political philosopher. He had nothing to say about enlightenment, to my knowledge. If you do want to read relevant philosophical treatises on the subject, look to David Hume, Rene Descartes, Voltaire, etc.

 

But to answer your question, enlightenment emphasized reason and analysis, basically the core of the scientific method. To the non-believer at least, these concepts are entirely antithetical to theism. To wit, conversations here have included people asserting that they know in the heart that God exists." To the atheist, this isn't a serious inquiry. It is wishful thinking.

 

That isn't to say that all enlightenment philosophers were atheists. Far from it. However, some of these individuals stripped away the more "miraculous" elements of Christianity. For example, Thomas Jefferson in the Jefferson Bible dropped any passages dealing with miracles, visitations of angels, and the resurrection of Jesus after his death. He tried to extract the practical Christian moral code of the New Testament.

 

 

Do you know of any society every in the world's history that was not influenced by religion or belief in God, or Gods? As far as I know religion goes back before the beginning of the Egyptian culture.

 

I do not know of any such culture. Nor do I even know for certain if atheism pre-dates religion, although I suppose there had to of been an atheist somewhere.

 

It is an interesting point to me though. Religion exists/existed in every culture. To me, this points to an innate need of man to attribute that which he can/could not understand to some source of power or authority.

 

This line of thought is what led me to atheism at a very young age: native "savages" didn't understand meteorology, so they would dance in hopes of the Gods blessing them with rain. "Enlightened" (not in the same vein as above) Westerns would laugh/mock Native Americans for the stupid rain dances, all the while ascribing to the same basic belief in a God.

 

Of course, I know acknowledge that their could be a creator behind the forces that cause the rain. One can always zoom one level further back and say "well, God was behind that".

 

Moreover, in my mind this proliferation of religion points to a strong argument against the authenticity of the claims of the bible. The Greeks had Gods. So did the Egyptians, Aztecs, Omecs, Romans, you name it.

 

Yet, somehow, I'm supposed to believe that all of those cultures had it wrong, and Christianity had it right? Despite the parts of the biblical story that were "borrowed" from other religions?

 

I apologize for late response. Currently there are some family matters that is taking up a lot of my time. Usually I have more time to read and reply. I am just to tired to write anymore. I would really like to discuss this with you as you seem to have more knowledge on this subject.

 

No harm caused by the delay in your response. Be careful to attribute too much knowledge to me. The older I get, the more I know that I don't know.

 

On a final note, please refrain from quoting my post the way you did, as it makes it more difficult to respond. Have a nice day.

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I do not understand why people that don't believe in God blame God for negative things of the world.

 

I don't think this is what happens. It is likely that non-believers are asking believers how they (the believers) can believe in a god that is good, all powerful, and all knowing, when negative things happen in the world.

 

Or, how can a believer attribute good things to a god, but yet don't attribute bad things to that same god? It's the logical flaws that the non-believer is pointing out.

 

Religion vs. cults vs. branches of other religions. Why do all religions receive blame for negative actions of individuals or groups of individuals?

 

Yeah, I see this as well, and I think it is misplaced blame. Blaming religion is like blaming economics. Religion is such a blanket term that is essentially meaningless when trying to attribute specific behaviours to religion. Now saying that a specific religion, like Islam for example, is a factor in some of the terrible things going on the world today, would be accurate.

 

I've realized for myself that when I blame religion for something, what I really am blaming is dogmatism. From Wikipedia:

 

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]

 

 

It seems impossible at times, to try explaining, to a person that doesn't believe in God that asks why God allows such bad things in the world to happen. Do they not understand the concept of freedom?

 

Again - the nonbeliever is asking how someone that believes in God explains it to themselves. If God is good and all powerful and all knowing, we would assume that He would prevent bad things from happening. Regardless of free will.

 

I try to better understand another's point of view by asking questions. Yet it doesn't seem the same thing is happening from a none believer's side. A lot times questions from people that don't believe in God use questions in a form of attack?

 

Yes, this is what I was referring to before. But I wouldn't characterize it as an attack. This is an unfortunate consequence of dogma. If your belief is dogmatic, if someone questions the logic or validity of your belief you will perceive as an attack, because in your mind you can't even conceive of the possibility that you might be wrong. That's dogma.

 

Pretty much any other domain we can openly question and criticize (ex. politics, economics, science, social policy etc.) and it isn't seen as an attack. Why are religions different?

 

Without understanding God. Won't the blaming of God and religion continue?

 

To a nonbeliever this makes very little sense. You are assuming that God exists, which a nonbeliever does not.

 

 

How are we as people on this earth going to be able to get along with one another without understanding another's point of view?

 

Well, we can understand another person's point of view, and still think they're wrong. I understand why some people are racist, but I think they're wrong. Having a belief or an opinion does not make it true.

 

Words like Judging, faith, belief, ect.. are used as if those words only pertain to religion or believers in God. Why?

 

Judging and belief are definitely used in multiple contexts. Faith, as well, although I think religious people often use faith to describe themselves, and that's why it's often attributed to religion.

 

God is discussed quite often and takes blame for many things. No blame seems to ever be given to the opposition to God (satan) by people that do not believe in God.

 

Nonbelievers don't believe in any gods or devils or demons or angels etc. They wouldn't be blaming any of the above. Again, they may be asking these questions in an attempt to get the believer to open their minds to the possibility that their belief might be wrong.

 

I am a very curious person and like to resolve problems. I am not sure how to resolve this problem. There are things that seem to not be taken into consideration by a person who doesn't believe in God.

 

I tend to ask people a fairly simple question (and not only when it comes to religion): What would it take for you to change your mind? For people with dogmatic beliefs, that answer is inevitably "Nothing". In other words, no amount of evidence, facts, observations, logic, reason etc. would change their mind. Then I stop discussing it, because their mind is closed.

 

I have lots of questions for people that do not believe in God. Like faults found in scientific theories, or why some what me to prove to them that God exists?

 

Science as a practice embraces it when people point out problems in a particular theory. In fact, if you can change a prevailing scientific theory, you would probably win a Nobel prize. This is the opposite of dogma. There is nothing that is considered true by authority.

 

If someone is making a claim about the nature of our universe, for example that a god created it, it makes sense to ask for evidence to support that claim.

 

 

I wonder have those that don't believe in God ever used the tools given them to find God for them selves?(that is if they have been given tools)

 

Again this is making the assumption that God exists. Doesn't make sense to a nonbeliever.

 

What is so offensive about, faith, love, charity, kindness, forgiveness, chastity, ect...?

 

All of the above are fine, but I take some issue with faith, just because faith (i.e. believing in something without evidence) can be dangerous.

 

Without being able to explain these things. How is the blaming of God and religion going to be resolved? Seems to be similar to racism. Isn't understanding needed to compromise and resolve conflict?

 

Well a nonbeliever is not going to blame God for anything, and again blaming religion is also misguided. Blaming dogmatism is valid though. I believe that being open minded is needed. That means questioning our own beliefs and admitting that we're fallible humans and we can be wrong. Regardless of what we believe. That would resolve a lot of conflict.

 

 

I don't know. I have many of my own answers to these questions but like to receive replies. Even though replies may come in many forms negative, positive, or other! Just looking for other point of views and alternative ideas i guess.

 

The bold above is likely the most profound and accurate statement any of us can ever say. Asking questions, including of our own beliefs (which is hard), is important to not only personal growth, but also growth of society as a whole!

Edited by Weezy1973
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Mr Scorpio

Blaming religion is like blaming economics. Religion is such a blanket term that is essentially meaningless when trying to attribute specific behaviours to religion. Now saying that a specific religion, like Islam for example, is a factor in some of the terrible things going on the world today, would be accurate.

 

I am unaware of any wars that have been bought based on the "social science that seeks to describe the factors which determine the production, distribution and consumption of goods and services".

 

I dare say that any behavior which is rooted in a belief in the afterlife can be attributed to religion, as it is religion that creates said belief. This would cover religiously motivated terrorism.

 

I've realized for myself that when I blame religion for something, what I really am blaming is dogmatism. From Wikipedia:

 

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]

 

But does religion not fit squarely within that definition? A set of principles (Christian values, ten commandments, etc) laid down by an authority (God and/or the church) as incontrovertibly true?

 

Granted, there is wiggle room where the various denominations are concerned.

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This is gonna offend a lot of people on here, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

 

Most atheist are usually depressed white people who were born into heavily religious families. The few who are black or non white act White as hell. They're just like Jesus freaks who are obsessed with their beliefs and look down on people who don't share their beliefs.

 

There are Buddhist who don't believe in god either and I've never had a problem with any of them. It's always athiest who seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

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Its important to remain open in conversation, and I was pleased to read that you share that method.

 

For walking this earth over 50 years and both living in some very Trying and sometimes violent times...I did question that from a believers stance.

 

I honestly vacillate between the Loving God who in his time balances out matters, and the God who is for lack of a better word, sadistic. Who allows their child to be laden with illness, hunger, heartaches, just to be set as an example of his almighty powers? Where is the mercy?

 

So while I sit and listen to agnostics or various faiths, I often question the reality of the environment and the litany of faith .

 

I am 100% convinced God has a sense of humor that one day I will sit back and laugh about...for now....its hard to find imagine....

 

From an intellectual view. I'll go ahead and give mine. I believe god (or something like that) is more likely than not to be real.

 

Now is he a god of love? That I'm not sure of.

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This is gonna offend a lot of people on here, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

 

Most atheist are usually depressed white people who were born into heavily religious families. The few who are black or non white act White as hell. They're just like Jesus freaks who are obsessed with their beliefs and look down on people who don't share their beliefs.

 

There are Buddhist who don't believe in god either and I've never had a problem with any of them. It's always athiest who seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

 

Maybe Buddhism didn't screw them up as kids. I know that most of the nonsense that was drilled into my head as a child, and all of the guilt trips that go with it, were total crap. And in spite of all of the nuns who threated us children with eternal damnation if we don't cooperate, I no longer believe I will burn in hell for being human. Maybe people in Buddhist countries don't have to fight religious zealots for basic human rights, like the right to die instead of suffering a tortuous, miserable slow death, while people of religion try to take that right away.

 

But your premise is more than flawed

 

In Scandinavia and East Asia, and particularly in China, atheists and the nonreligious are the majority. Globally, atheists and the nonreligious are concentrated in Asia and the Pacific with over 76% of all the irreligious or nonreligious people in the world residing in those regions. In Europe, the nonreligious make up 12.5% of the population and in North America they make up 5% of the population. In Africa and South America, atheists are typically in the single digits.

Wiki

Edited by Robert Z
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Maybe Buddhism didn't screw them up as kids. I know that most of the nonsense that was drilled into my head as a child, and all of the guilt trips that go with it, were total crap. Maybe people in Buddhist countries don't have to fight religious zealots for basic human rights, like the right to die instead of suffering a tortuous, miserable slow death, while people of religion try to take that right away.

 

But your premise is more than flawed

 

 

Wiki

 

And we got one. lol

 

Strange how this isn't an issue for nonwhite people (aside from the ones who act white).

 

Robert this isn't a shot at you, but you're exactly the kinda person I and the OP are talking about. You looking to blame your problems on something, this comes from depression. Very common in the white community. I used work in a pharmacy and the amounts whites taking anti depressants was staggering.

 

The stats you show are flawed, because scandinavia is white and east asia and china is mostly buddhist. All you did was prove me right.

Edited by jay1983
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Quiet Storm
And we got one. lol

 

Strange how this isn't an issue for nonwhite people (aside from the ones who act white).

 

Robert this isn't a shot at you, but you're exactly the kinda person I and the OP are talking about. You looking to blame your problems on something, this comes from depression. Very common in the white community. I used work in a pharmacy and the amounts whites taking anti depressants was staggering.

 

The stats you show are flawed, because scandinavia is white and east asia and china is mostly buddhist. All you did was prove me right.

 

Jay, I know at least ten black nonbelievers. My son knows many at his university. If you are one of those people that think educated black people "act white", then that's just ignorance, in my opinion.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/28/living/black-atheist-confession/

 

There are many atheists who just simply live their lives with a lack of religion or belief in God, they don't try to push their beliefs on others. People have this stereotype that atheists have a chip on their shoulder, but for me, its just living life with an absence of religion. It's not at all about looking down on those that believe or trying to prove to people that their isn't a God.

 

My family was poor, but not crazy religious. My mom was Catholic and took us to church and my childhood was chaotic because my dad was an addict. My mom's solution was to pray about it. Even at age 5, I did not believe, so it's not as if religious oppression turned me off to it. It was just about logic for me, I knew Santa couldn't logically go to every kids house, and I knew that God could not possibly be hearing eveyone's prayers. I remember thinking "I wish I could believe, it would be so nice to always have a friend who's listening and watching over you". I wanted to see my family that had died in heaven one day, but it made no sense to me.

 

One really crazy thing is that my mom is a Buddhist now.

 

As for depression, I don't know...religion does make people feel better, and always loved. I think that this is an important element of religion and a very positive one. I just cannot perpetuate what I feel is a lie, to my kids. Even if it means they'll always have a friend.

Edited by Quiet Storm
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Jay, I know at least ten black nonbelievers. My son knows many at his university. And there are many atheists who just simply live their lives with a lack of religion or belief in God, they don't try to push their beliefs on others. People have this stereotype that atheists have a chip on their shoulder, but for me, its just living life with an absence of religion. It's not at all about looking down on those that believe or trying to prove to people that their isn't a God.

 

My family was poor, but not crazy religious. My mom was Catholic and took us to church and my childhood was chaotic because my dad was an addict. My mom's solution was to pray about it. Even at age 5, I did not believe, so it's not as if religious oppression turned me off to it. It was just about logic for me, I knew Santa couldn't logically go to every kids house, and I knew that God could not possibly be hearing eveyone's prayers. I remember thinking "I wish I could believe, it would be so nice to always have a friend who's listening and watching over you". I wanted to see my family that had died in heaven one day, but it made no sense to me.

 

One really crazy thing is that my mom is a Buddhist now.

 

As for depression, I don't know...religion does make people feel better, and always loved. I think that this is an important element of religion and a very positive one. I just cannot perpetuate what I feel is a lie, to my kids. Even if it means they'll always have a friend.

 

I don't have a problem that. You don't think god hears people's prays and you won't be reunited with your family after desth. I understand how toy feel that way, I'm not a closed minded, you're going to hell, blind faith type believer, but what I said is very true. Yes there're black non believers, but like I said, they usually associate with white people and have no soul in em (soul as in flavor) education has nothing to do it.. My uncle is an athiest who has a problem with religion and that's not where it ends. He's very problematic at his job and has been transferred all over the state of California to a point where he and his wife are miserably living 4 hours away from any major city.

 

See fact of the matter is that, most Christians don't attend church or even talk about religion. Only the fanatic nutjobs wake up every day "god! Spread the word of god!" It's simply not something happy people worry about. It's usually depressed people who question that (not that they're wrong for questioning, I understand the specticism), but it's the last thing on my mind.

 

From the age 5? Most people still believe in Santa at age 5. Lol

 

Anyway real talk, we're not capable of knowing if god is real. There's no explanation for why atoms stack the way they do and the big bang thing makes less sense than a creator.

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Quiet Storm
Anyway real talk, we're not capable of knowing if god is real. There's no explanation for why atoms stack the way they do and the big bang thing makes less sense than a creator.

 

OK, but why does something unexplained = God? If I hear a noise in my attic and can't figure it out, I don't think it must be a ghost. It's just illogical to me, but I don't want to disrespect anyone's beliefs on this thread. I respect people's faith. I just wanted to share so that people can understand why I'm an atheist and that we all aren't morally corrupt.

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endlessabyss
OK, but why does something unexplained = God? If I hear a noise in my attic and can't figure it out, I don't think it must be a ghost. It's just illogical to me, but I don't want to disrespect anyone's beliefs on this thread. I respect people's faith. I just wanted to share so that people can understand why I'm an atheist and that we all aren't morally corrupt.

 

 

 

It's not really that illogical.

 

 

You either believe that the universe is eternal or you believe it was created.

 

 

You have two choices.

 

 

It is completely logical, when you look at the immense complexity in biological systems/the universe, to infer there is a Creator, point blank.

 

 

It's not this huge leap of faith iconoclasts make it out to be, actually it is quite small.

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OK, but why does something unexplained = God? If I hear a noise in my attic and can't figure it out, I don't think it must be a ghost. It's just illogical to me, but I don't want to disrespect anyone's beliefs on this thread. I respect people's faith. I just wanted to share so that people can understand why I'm an atheist and that we all aren't morally corrupt.

 

The lord works in mysterious ways!

 

Nah I don't know. Lol

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