Daddy, when's Thursday?

[phoenix19]

Relationship history, together for 18 years, married 13. 5 year old daughter.

 

 

Last November while driving back from daughter's dance class, she asked me when Thursday was....I said "in 3 days, why honey?". Cuz that's when mummy gets the keys to her new home :-). And she was all excited about it...cuz well she's 5. That's how suddenly my life changed.

 

 

Our marriage and relationship hadn't been all fireworks and champagne for a while, but I never thought it was in trouble. We never argued, we were both busy with work, and yes took each other for granted. But we were a very functional family and I felt comfortable with my wife and our family unit. I was still attracted to her, and loved her....

 

 

 

 

So...when I got home that night I asked my wife what this was all about, and why we didn't have any real discussion about this before she made this decision...She said it was something she had thought of for a while and found a townhouse she could sublet for 6 months and would be moving out in 3 days. She wanted to tell me, but couldn't find the right time or how to say it...

 

 

She gave me the "it's not you it's me..." and the "I love you but am not in love with you" and of course the "we have nothing in common". I was floored...I didn't know how to react, I was basically in shock...I couldn't understand how this was happening...this wasn't us...other couples sure, but us? We could get through anything...and we have a 5 year old!...

 

 

I didn't know exactly what the terms were for this ...she said there was no one else involved. That she wasn't happy anymore and needed to work some things out. So a few days after she moved out I basically said ok, is this is a "you need to get your life in order" or a "we need to work on our relationship kind of a break"? As I need to know and not just left hanging in the wind...she said I don't need to wait around for her to get herself together. She said it was over between us...

 

 

This went on for a few weeks, I had some bad moments, and bad words \ reactions to her about this whole thing. I was making myself nuts and facebook stalking her for clues. Still she maintained no one else was involved. I basically said I'm not this stalker person and closed my facebook account for the time being... Christmas was rough...Financial pressure started to be bad as she was no longer covering half the mortgage, taxes etc...for the house...she basically said at one point we need to sell the house by March. Again, this didn't go too well with me...I consulted a lawyer and therapist...(therapist first)... We talked briefly around new years and I told her I couldn't hold on to the house long term by myself, and selling was going to be at a loss given our debt load. She said she could get an extension on her place, and that after that she'd take over the house later this summer and I'd have to move out.... I re-opened my facebook account and she immediately blocked me. (I blame my sister drunk facebook posting her for this...in hindsight I though it was kind of ap propos, sister was trying to defend what this woman did to her little brother.) We didn't talk much for January...I sent her an email at the beginning of the month explaining that I still loved her and was willing to work on our marriage, but that she didn't need to respond, just that I needed to let her know where I stood...My birthday passed a few weeks alter...after 18 years, no "happy birthday"...a few days later (basically a month after I sent the email, I re-sent it stating it was still applicable...now valentine's day is on the horizon...I still feel the same way as that first week. I just don't understand what happened.

 

 

We split time with our daughter and that's a work in progress... I've been working on myself, took up running and trying to learn the guitar and doing work. I also created an account on a couple of dating sites...just to "talk to people" but I shut those down as I really wasn't ready for that.

 

 

I have problems with seeing our "couple" friends as they are all still "friends" with her through facebook and everything seems normal to them...I feel like a outsider in my own life... I think about her constantly, and I need some type of closure if this is in fact "done". I have trouble believing it is though, I don't want to give up and then have her say " well look you gave up too..."

[Tayla]

Welcome to the board. What can we help you with , or what questions are you seeking answers for?

Sounds like you have done the basics, contacted a therapist and lawyer....

[phoenix19]

that's a good question...there's a few things that unfortunately no one can answer but her...such as:

1-Why didn't we talk about what she was feeling, I'd feel better knowing we tried everything before getting to this point.

 

 

2-Why did you just quit...(which is basically related to the previous one)

 

 

3-Is there another reason why you left, I need full disclosure

 

 

4-Why are you making this harder than it needs to be by ignoring me and not wanting to talk if there really isn't anything else going.

 

 

As I said, I need closure to begin healing. Right now I'm stuck in limbo, and I realize it, and it pains me that I can't move on...as moving on will be hard enough, I'd like to get started if that's what I need to do...but I'm not convinced yet. I know that sounds bad...but I need a good reason for why this happened, assurance that it is over and that I had nothing to do with it (to regain some self-confidence), and to be on good terms with the mother of my child. I don't want to be "friends" with her if it is over, but we should be on the same page for our daughter's upbringing. I'm 42...I don't want to have to wait 2-3 years before I'm ready to start a new relationship either...

[KBarletta]

Phoenix19, I could change as few words, and this would be my story. So I feel for you man. I wish I had more answers, but I am three months post DDay and still no answers to the most important questions that you posted.

 

Keep working on yourself, be a great dad, and become the best version of yourself. The answers will either come in time, or after a while you will no longer care.

 

I wish you well, keep posting!

[Ralph79]

Ok a few things I'm going to chime in about hoping to fill the holes in what's happening with your relationship though guesswork.

 

1. Does she have any relatives that live relatively nearby she could have moved in with or was the townhouse sublet absolutely necessary?

 

2. Things got difficult financially because she wasn't able to pay her half of the mortgage yet, she was able to move out and is also going to be able to cover the full mortgage of the house once you move out?

 

3. Where does she work and how long has she been working there, and has she gotten promotions recently (last 12 months)

 

4. Did her spending habits increased significantly prior to moving out?

 

5. Do you earn substantially less than her?

 

6. She is very angry at you. You haven't described any possible faults you might have had in your marriage. Are there any considerable ones?

 

7. Do you have authorization to go visit her at her new place?

 

Maybe with some insight we might be able to make better guesses as to why this happened to you. Only she knows the truth but we'll try to help you piece this puzzle together as best as we can with your help.

[phoenix19]

Ralph -> no nearby relatives, (she even waited until she was moved out to tell her parents which she talks to everyday.)

 

 

She's a lawyer (labour law) for about 8 years , and yes makes more money than I. Although I do have a decent job and would say it's slightly above average pay it is hard to maintain most of the payments on my income...house and the extras of a house is a big one. She feels since she doesn't live in the house, she doesn't need to contribute to the mortgage (that her name is also on). My witty rebuttle to her was that if I moved out, then neither of us would need to pay the mortgage? (mortgage specialist didn't find the humour in that story)

 

 

Yes she had been spending more money in the months leading up to this, a lot of CC debt (some on joint card). She's either using retail therapy to get through her unhappiness or she's making herself "better" either for herself or someone else...(it apparently ain't for me).

 

 

She might hate me, I'm far from perfect....I'm moody at times, can be quick to get upset, but not abusive. I've been nothing but loyal to her the time we've been together...she was "the one" for me, I don't plan on getting married again. I feel I did a lot of little things for her on a daily basis...did most of the cooking, made her coffee each morning etc.....

 

 

Authorization to visit? Yes, but I don't particularly like going over there as it's a sign of her moving on. I'm stuck in the house with a lot of her things, pictures etc... My daughter loves the wife's rental townhouse , and even said she preferred it to the home she grew up in...that was a tough night.

[Ralph79]

I will assume there's no OM financing her recent choices. She earns enough and she had a 5 year old daughter, not to mention a smart lawyer. Not the typical young bimbo profile rich guys dish out cash for.

 

Is there an OM influencing her choices? Dunno that's a tough call still.

 

The best guess I can think of:

 

Your wife is a very capable and independent thinker. She knows how to make sound business decisions and maybe she wanted to have more say in the direction your family was headed but you never seriously listened to her (I'm just guessing here, correct me if I'm wrong), thus she eventually got fed up of trying to convince you and decided to prove to herself she could live a better life without your "help". Maybe she felt you were holding her back.

 

I'm saying this because she's already come up with a plan for your house once you leave and she's got a place that's more appealing than your current house (according to your daughter).

 

To be honest, if that were the case, then it was a poor way of going about things by not giving you the opportunity to talk openly about this.

 

Anyways, it's just one opinion based on a few facts you shared with us here.

[phoenix19]

No I wouldn't call her a young bimbo. But in some ways I think she is basing her actions on somewhat of a whim. She said she moved out as quickly as she did because she "found" this townhouse for rent for 6 months and thought it was perfect for her but had to make a decision quick to go for it as it wasn't going to be available for very long. The 6 month lease, drove her thoughts about selling the house because she wanted things settled by the end of that 6 months. (I thought making life altering decisions based on this lease was...well nuts)

 

 

Another trait of hers is she is very hard headed and would never admit she made a mistake, or admit regret....no matter the consequences to our family.

 

 

And this is what I keep coming back to ...why wasn't I part of the decision?

 

 

In some way, I feel she didn't completely think this through and is just "going with it" to some degree... I still don't how understand this cold unapproachable person used to lay next to me for the past 18 years....

[LoveMyCat]

She wanted to leave so she left. She must have had her ears open for a place to rent in order to come across the sublet. A person does not get told about possible sublets unless they have reached out or made inquiries. So she had to have been thinking about it for a while.

 

I moved out in December (at husband's request) but knew our marriage was shaky for a while, so by the time he brought it up, I had already viewed and priced apartments. I was out within four days of his request, due to my earlier research. We never sat down and discussed splitting up...it was more of a result of a few very bad years and some issues with his mental/emotional health.

 

Anyway...just trying to point out that she had a plan in her head to leave, and made it happen when the townhouse became available. If she wants to tell you her reasons, she will. If she wants to discuss possible reconciliation, she will let you know. If she does not want to do either one, nothing you do can change that. We don't always get the closure or explanations we feel we need or deserve.

[road]

Dollars to doughnuts there is an OM. Women do not pack up and leave without their replacement for you already in place.

[DivorcedDad123]

There's someone else. She's about 10 steps ahead of you in this process. Good on you for getting an atty! You need to really start protecting yourself and your future,because if you don't, you're going to be an indentured servant for 14 years or more with a child.

Why has your atty or you not demanded the child be returned to the marital home?

You need to lock in the current 50/50 visitation now. I don't mean in an email or a note. You need a judges signature on it asap. You'd be surprised how fast that can change when she's not getting her way.

Are you paying child support? Is there a court order for it if so? Is she paying you child support since she makes more?

[KBarletta]

Another trait of hers is she is very hard headed and would never admit she made a mistake, or admit regret....no matter the consequences to our family.

 

And this is what I keep coming back to ...why wasn't I part of the decision?

 

In some way, I feel she didn't completely think this through and is just "going with it" to some degree... I still don't how understand this cold unapproachable person used to lay next to me for the past 18 years....

 

The fact that she made this decision without discussing it with you (but did tell your 5-year-old daughter apparently?) is the hardest part to take, I am sure. Same was true for me, though our daughter is 13.

 

My wife acted similarly, making a decision without the opportunity for discussion until after the decision was already made.

 

She did so to avoid confrontation, to avoid hurting my feelings, to be "in control" of her own decisions, to act independently, strike out on her own. All the things she probably felt she couldn't do in the confines of the marriage.

 

Why did she feel that way? Difficulty with communication, stubbornness, unwillingness to engage in confrontation, the feeling that her ideas weren't worth as much as her husband's, etc. These issues exist in a relationship, they are the responsibility of both partners, but the complete lack of communication on the decision to leave is not. That's on her. And when one partner decides it's over without any warning, it can be very hard to regain the trust you once had.

 

I used to trust my wife *completely* as she never gave me a reason not to. Now, I don't think I would trust her to take out the trash.

[oldshirt]

There's only a few reasons that a grown woman will just pack up and leave her husband and father of her minor children -

 

 

- abuse (were you abusive, emotionally or physically)

 

 

- addiction (are you under the influence of drugs or alcohol)

 

 

- abandonment (did you stop coming home or stopped talking to her for several months or more)

 

 

- Chronic unemployment/underemployment.

 

 

- another man (self explanatory)

 

 

That's it. It's one or a combination of those things.

 

 

Women fall out of love and/or lose attraction to their husbands all the time. But when there are minor children involved, they stay and just suffer through it until someone else comes along that offers them a bigger, better deal or one of the other things mentioned above occurs.

 

 

While she may make it sound like it was an impulsive act, it actually appears very methodical and well planned out. What is strange is that she let it slip to a 5 year old. But I digress.

 

 

There's more to this story. Are you a wife beater or an alcoholic? Did you have someone on the side yourself and have basically ignored her for months/years? Have you actually investigated and researched to see if there is another man/men involved? Have you actually looked for evidence of another man or just taken her word for it when she said 'no'?

[oldshirt]

As far as what to do, you need to act fast.....as in two months ago fast. She is well ahead of you and has likely been planning this for many months if not actually years.

 

 

Dump the therapist for now and shift that time, energy and money towards legal and financial protection. You can sit on the couch and talk about your feelings once you have your assets, property and child custody interests secured.

 

 

Until the divorce is finalized she is still responsible for marital debts, bills, child rearing and other obligations even if she is living in another house. It's up to the judge to determine what she pays and what she is responsible for and not her.

 

 

....and she knows that so that means she is intentionally trying to scam you and get out of whatever she can. that is why you must act quickly and decisively.

 

 

At this point you are being played as a fool and being taken advantage of. she is using your feelings for her and your desire to save the marriage against you. She is building up her stockpile and building her case, whatever that may be.

 

 

You need to get an attorney and act fast to save as much of your assets and property as you can. You need to circle your wagons and fight back and protect your own interests as best you can.

 

 

Don't worry about hurting her feelings, upsetting her or inconveniencing her. This is now about your own survival and you have the right to survive.

 

 

Put all ideas about saving your marriage or working things out, out of you mind completely. Save your resources, property and contact with your child now. You can worry about what went wrong and such later after you have secured your assets.

 

 

If your best friend is beating you with a baseball bat, your first priority is to defend yourself and stop the attack and protect yourself from future harm. Figuring out what pissed him off and what to do about the friendship comes much later.

[Chi townD]

Sorry to break this to you, dude. When a woman gives you the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech". 9 times out of 10. There's usually another guy. That's straight out of the cheaters handbook. Another red flag for me is that when she saw that you activated your Facebook account, she immediately blocked you. That tells me that she's scared you might see something you weren't meant to.

 

 

If I were you, I would look into finding out the truth. Don't ask her again, the only thing that will do is make her aware that you're still suspicious and she'll hide it better from you. The longer she thinks you're clueless, the more relax she'll feel and that's when she'll make a mistake.

 

 

She moved out because she was tired of hiding it from you. If she has her own space, she can leave her phone wherever she wants without you seeing a text that might come through, she can talk openly on the phone to her OM without having to go out or hide in the bathroom to speak. Or even have this guy over after your daughter goes to bed and he's out before she wakes up in the morning.

 

 

If you can swing it, hire a PI for a couple of days. Best bet is the days you have your daughter. You deserve to know the truth. You deserve to know why your family is broken at the moment. And I'll even go a step further and guess that it's with someone she works with.

 

 

Sorry you're going through this dude.

[BlueIris]

Women do not pack up and leave without their replacement for you already in place.

 

Some of us do.

 

There's only a few reasons that a grown woman will just pack up and leave her husband and father of her minor children -

- abuse (were you abusive, emotionally or physically)

- addiction (are you under the influence of drugs or alcohol)

- abandonment (did you stop coming home or stopped talking to her for several months or more)

- Chronic unemployment/underemployment.

- another man (self explanatory)

 

I’d add some. I’d add chronic negativity, disrespect, authoritarian attitude, lack of emotional support or connection. There are others I'm sure.

 

Generally, it appears that she has decided, so I’d go with the advice to get an attorney and work out property division, support, custody and parenting time. I'm sorry, OP. I hope you can work out as good a situation for you and your child as possible.

[phoenix19]

:-) I appreciate the comments, but I don't think I'm in an episode of Jerry Springer yet. If there's another guy, not much I can do about that. It's like her leaving, no way I could have stopped her. Whether she's this cheating conniving biatch or not is actually irrelevant to me...of course I hope she isn't, cuz I still love her. But her leaving, the way I found out, and her current "you don't exist" attitude towards me is all on her...she chose those cards for the father of her daughter....and she's going to have to deal with me for a while unfortunately.

 

 

That stuff is all out of my control, and I'm at the place where I want to move on and get myself right. And that wont happen until everything is done, separation agreement signed, house issues dealt with and I'm in my own place and stable and our joint debts "unjoined".

 

 

I'm not planning on dating for now, I still have a lot of self confidence, and independence things and trust issues to work on as when she left something broke inside me. I don't ever want to go back to that place from mid November to end of December. That was easily the worst time of my life. My support system is limited as well, I let go of my close friends a long time ago, but am getting some support from people at work.

 

 

My feelings are still all over the place, good days\ bad days...good minutes, bad minutes... One thing I've noticed is the bad isn't as bad and good is getting better. I wouldn't call myself optimistic yet, but at least not as pessimistic...

[Ralph79]

Well damn.

 

** Packs chairs and tells Jerry Springer bodyguards to leave **

 

You're on the right track:

 

"One thing I've noticed is the bad isn't as bad and good is getting better."

 

Hopefully things get resolved soon enough for you.

[sandylee1]

Dollars to doughnuts there is an OM. Women do not pack up and leave without their replacement for you already in place.

 

I disagree with this and it's a big generalisation. Women DO move our without another man in tow. Especially when they have the financial means to do so. That is usually what holds them back, even when they are in unhappy marriages.

[Chi townD]

I disagree with this and it's a big generalisation. Women DO move our without another man in tow. Especially when they have the financial means to do so. That is usually what holds them back, even when they are in unhappy marriages.

 

Often than not in the cases with the "ILYBNILWY" speech, the blocking on social media..you're completely glossing over red flags. Go read agoodpersons thread. His wife did the exact same thing. He did some digging and guess what! There was another guy that lived 2000 miles away that she saw periodically.

 

 

Now, you can come back at me and say, "Well, not all women that move out have another man or are cheating" And I won't argue that. But, there are trends that happen with infidelity, certain "red flags" that always seem to occur that OP's are not always aware of. I feel I would be remiss if I didn't point out those red flags and those possibilities to him. It would suck if he had to go through life always wondering what HE did wrong. What HE did that caused the demise of the marriage, wouldn't it?

[MJJean]

Our marriage and relationship hadn't been all fireworks and champagne for a while, but I never thought it was in trouble. We never argued, we were both busy with work, and yes took each other for granted. But we were a very functional family and I felt comfortable with my wife and our family unit. I was still attracted to her, and loved her....

 

 

So...when I got home that night I asked my wife what this was all about, and why we didn't have any real discussion about this before she made this decision...She said it was something she had thought of for a while and found a townhouse she could sublet for 6 months and would be moving out in 3 days. She wanted to tell me, but couldn't find the right time or how to say it...

 

 

She gave me the "it's not you it's me..." and the "I love you but am not in love with you" and of course the "we have nothing in common".

 

she said I don't need to wait around for her to get herself together. She said it was over between us...

 

I have problems with seeing our "couple" friends as they are all still "friends" with her through facebook and everything seems normal to them.

 

 

First paragraph says a lot. No arguing, but look at the bolded parts. It sounds like there hasn't been much of anything between you two for a while now. It sounds like you've been distant. Like you two drifted apart and since her love for you wasn't being nurtured, it died. She decided to leave, but literally didn't know how to tell you as the communication has been missing.

 

If she's still friends with mutual friends and they haven't mentioned another man I'd guess she was being honest, left because she was unhappy, found a great place she couldn't pass up, probably wants the house sold so assets are split up when her sublet is up so she can get another place.

 

 

 

Some of us do.

 

 

 

I’d add some. I’d add chronic negativity, disrespect, authoritarian attitude, lack of emotional support or connection. There are others I'm sure.

 

Generally, it appears that she has decided, so I’d go with the advice to get an attorney and work out property division, support, custody and parenting time. I'm sorry, OP. I hope you can work out as good a situation for you and your child as possible.

 

I think it was the bolded for this wife.

 

This woman was unhappy in her marriage and she has the financial means to leave, so she did. That doesn't mean the OP was at fault. Sometimes people stop nurturing and maintaining their relationship and neither notice it until they look around one day and realize how bad it's gotten and that it's beyond repair.

Edited February 12, 2015 by MJJean

[phoenix19]

mjjean - I agree with the "I haven't been nurturing the relationship for a while"...both of us are guilty of that. From my perspective though, you need to talk it out as it's kind of important. I took vows, and I think you don't just give up. I'm not religious, and it's more about the commitment I made to her...we didn't need to exchange rings, or be in a church, we could have been in aisle 7 at Walmart for all it matters...it's: I gave my word to this woman...and she quit by leaving...

 

 

Still no control over that, so I need to focus on what I do going forward...if...if ever she decided to come back, we'd both have a ton of work to do, and no guarantees it would work...and that'd be alright with me.

 

 

(But yes, she did have the financial means to leave, and that's the difference here I think)

 

 

 

 

Another issue I have is that I know life is short, I think it's ridiculous to be playing games like NC and similar tactics. It seems like a waste of time to me, I do understand the psychology behind it and it may be good for certain times or situations...but it's not a one size fits all. In general..people just need to be open and upfront and not leave anything to interpretation and just deal with stuff.

[Ralph79]

I get the gist of what MJJean is trying to tell you (I think)

 

it's more about the commitment I made to her...we didn't need to exchange rings, or be in a church, we could have been in aisle 7 at Walmart for all it matters...it's: I gave my word to this woman...and she quit by leaving...

 

You committed to staying in a relationship where this was acceptable to you:

 

Our marriage and relationship hadn't been all fireworks and champagne for a while, but I never thought it was in trouble.

 

Maybe she held you to higher standards than you realized.

 

Maybe she didn't quit on her commitment, she simply quit on yours, because you quit on hers. On what she expected out of the marriage. Maybe in her eyes you left the marriage years ago (speaking figuratively of course).

 

Just a thought.

 

She still could be cheating or crazy or whatever. Just trying to help you get a grip on why she did the things she did. Food for thought.

[amaysngrace]

Maybe she's having a mid-life crisis. So many people where I live have them.

 

And maybe she didn't tell you about leaving because she was afraid of your reaction. That or she has not a lot of respect for you.

 

I mean...she respects your daughter more than she respects you. And if your sister ganging up on her the way that she did is any indication of how your family behaves I really can't say that I blame her.

 

You defend your sister's actions as being okay.

 

What's that say about you?

[Tayla]

Op,i would caution you to refrain from speculative thinking, such has been overwhelmingly tossed thru out this thread. Remain open to this change and acceptance will come when the new ground work is laid. Sorry you were in essence blindsided...it does leave more questions then answers.

 

As a person who has been divorced over 20 years... i still am astounded at some of the reasons my ex and i gave ... they change over time... once you put down the " i need to know" and move along... the truth seems to find you... let that part be...

 

your daughter still needs her father... be that Dad to her.