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4 years later/both [former affair] partners left marriages [new proposal]


Getting Married Cold feet to pre-marital stressors--the place to discuss all the issues that come with saying "I do."

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Old 12th August 2018, 3:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by theperfectlife View Post
2 weeks since proposal, youngest daughter still ignoring my texts. I would be relieved at this point if she and I could have a relationship again, even if she never meets my man. However i dont know how fulfilled i will be if she never lets me see her children one day(that is one of her threats). I don’t think i will return the ring....not in a rush to tie the knot! In counseling again, will give it time. Thoughts?
You are engaged to a man who hasn't met your daughter... Yikes!

You forget that you had the affair and fractured the family during the formative years of her life... She doesn't have the experience to understand that sometimes life is complicated and good people sometimes do bad things... She is was a teen, and it is well known that teens know everything there is to know about life!

I say this a little tongue in cheek. Don't underestimate the effect this affair has had on your children - it has changed who they are as people. My best friend's mother had an affair when we were children... It divided her family and changed her life in so many ways. She is very successful and has a family of her own, but she still won't talk about her childhood or her parents divorce thirty years later.

Your daughter feels deeply betrayed... You betrayed her, you betrayed her father, and you betrayed your family... And, in a way you continue to betray her by staying with this man. In her eyes, I'm sure it feels like you have chosen this man over your family. It takes a lot of time to come to terms with these feelings, and the truth is that she may never come to terms with it.

It's different, but when my mother passed away, my father began another relationship two months after my mother's death. My mother's death was sudden and tragic, and in his grief he could not cope with life on his own. The problem was, he dismissed our grief and our feelings by forcing this woman on us. He actually told us once that "if we really loved him, we would want him to be happy." My response was - "Mom died a horrifically painful death less than six months ago, you are not supposed to be happy right now!" We needed time to grieve our mother and make some sense of her death, so when we refused to spend time with my father and his new girlfriend he told me that I was "denying them the pleasure of my company." For obvious reasons, he threw himself into this new relationship. Truly, it pained me to see my father hurting and I didn't want him to be alone or unhappy (the counsellor helped me by asking one day, don't you think your mother knew he couldn't be alone?). Still, it felt like he chose her over us and it felt like my feelings didn't matter... To make a long story short, I didn't want to lose my relationship with my father so soon after losing my mother... but, being with my father and his new girlfriend was so painful, that I couldn't do it for a really long time. It came to a head during one holiday gathering, where my brother and I basically told him that he needed to be more sensitive to the feelings of others or we were going to start putting some distance between us... That, got his attention. He stopped pushing, and things improved with a lot of time.

I would hope that someday your daughter will find a way to be a little more understanding, a little more flexible in her thinking, because she may not realize it now but it would be so sad for her to lose her relationship with her mother. But, I would also hope that you understand that no relationship with a man is worth losing the relationship with your children.

My best advice. Give it time and keep your relationships very separate for now. Don't pressure her, but continue to reach out to your daughter. Love her as best you can, because she is also in pain right now. It may be expressed through anger, but it is pain.
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Last edited by BaileyB; 12th August 2018 at 3:34 PM..
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Old 12th August 2018, 3:37 PM   #17
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....not in a rush to tie the knot! In counseling again, will give it time. Thoughts?
Seems like a smart thing to do. Difficult situations can cause us to focus on our own needs at the expense of others and I'm sure this news feels like insult on top of injury for your daughter. First the affair and now the news you're marrying your AP, lots of things for family members to process.

You may have to accept your daughter might never want to attend - or have you attend - a family function when your fiancee's involved. Life's choices have consequences...

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Old 13th August 2018, 11:27 AM   #18
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My daughter was talking to me before the proposal, just refused to ever meet my new man because she knows he was the OM while married to her dad. I have apologized, shown remorse, and been there for her as much as she will allow. I suppose i had hopes that would eventually change. 4 years have passed, but I didnt realize the extent to which she would react.
I am trying to move forward and be happy without beating myself up every day
of my life

You're not sorry nor showing any remorse. If you did, you wouldn't be engaged to this OM. Whatever you have said to your daughter are empty words as long as you continue your relationship with your Affair partner.
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Old 13th August 2018, 6:15 PM   #19
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So it is your opinion that I give up my OM after living with him for 4 uears?
I am positive no one would treat me as good as he does, or love me the way he does.
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Old 13th August 2018, 8:49 PM   #20
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You see, this right here makes...

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Originally Posted by theperfectlife View Post
So it is your opinion that I give up my OM after living with him for 4 uears?

I am positive no one would treat me as good as he does, or love me the way he does.
You see, this right here makes... everyone think that you really do not care that you destroyed your husband, that you destroyed your family, or that you destroyed your daughters life.

I know that you are responding to the previous post and I get that, but can you see how that sounds?

You know, affairs have consequences, a lot of them. Right now your daughter hates you. She may hate you for the rest of your life. She may never accept you, or your OM.

You should have known that this could happen, and you should have expected this. Did you not expect it? Did you think everyone would be as nice as your H? He is probably way to "nice" to tell you to your face that he actually hates your guts. Because I assure you that he does.

Now, maybe your H was abusive, OK, I get it. Maybe he was just too beta and eventually you just got sick of him, OK, I get it. Maybe he was just terrible in bed, and he never satisfied you the way that OM does, OK, I get it.

However, even if all of those things were true, you were still wrong in the way that you handled it. You were a selfish, coward, and what it more, you know it.

Now, you could have had the courage to divorce your husband, straight up. You could have just left, so why did you not do that? Because of the above reason.

So now, TO THE POINT OF THE THREAD...

Your daughter is not stupid, I will bet that she is in fact quite bright, and a capable young woman.

But now, you want her to fully accept you and your OM after everything that you have done. Really?

You see, affairs have consequences, and now you are facing them, was it worth it?

And if you choose to respond to my post, please, don't do it with on or two sentences, I would really like to know how you feel. I would like to know what you expected after you helped blow up two families? I would like to understand how you expected everyone to feel about your selfishness?

Do you think I am being too harsh? Do you wish that everyone would just get over it and love you?
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Old 13th August 2018, 9:36 PM   #21
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In response to questions asked.....
Yes, I have learned that affairs have consequences. I have had many sleepless nights, been in intermittent periods of deep depression, and question my place in this world after making the bad choice of having an affair and leaving my marriage.

Although i am VERY aware that Im not the victim, i have also suffered a great deal of loss and shame. I never gave the marriage a final shot in the end, and realize that now. I have been beating myself up almost daily for the past 4 years. But this can be self destructive too; therefore I am trying to forgive myself and move forward, but question weather this is ever going to be possible.

When i read the harsh responses i get in this forum, the guilt and shame comes pouring back....and continue to overpower the benefit of being in a healthy, loving relationship with this man. So no, it hasn't been worth it. I would love to rewind the clock and take it back but THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. So this is my dilemma.

At the time of this affair, I originally planned that if i wanted to leave the marriage i would wait until my daughter graduated from high school. Ultimately, It was a stupid plan and DDAY happened a few months before the end of the school year.

So i see my options as follows......
1. Stay in my current relationship which is pretty solid and pray things change one day. Give it more time to see what happens
Or...
2. Break it off with my man, and feel guilty for hurting him and his 2 boys who are a big part of our lives. It would be a huge sacrifice, but hopefully my daughter would forgive me and we could have a more normal relationship
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Old 13th August 2018, 9:50 PM   #22
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After reading back my last response, i realize i didnt answer all questions.

What did i expect?
Well i thought with time perhaps my daughter would want to see me happy. Maybe she would see that I have not abandoned her. I guess maybe i was crazy to think that way. I didnt think she would be thrilled with the news, but honestly was suprised by her angry reaction. I didnt think i would have to choose between them".......
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Old 13th August 2018, 9:50 PM   #23
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That was really honest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by theperfectlife View Post
In response to questions asked.....
Yes, I have learned that affairs have consequences. I have had many sleepless nights, been in intermittent periods of deep depression, and question my place in this world after making the bad choice of having an affair and leaving my marriage.

Although i am VERY aware that Im not the victim, i have also suffered a great deal of loss and shame. I never gave the marriage a final shot in the end, and realize that now. I have been beating myself up almost daily for the past 4 years. But this can be self destructive too; therefore I am trying to forgive myself and move forward, but question weather this is ever going to be possible.

When i read the harsh responses i get in this forum, the guilt and shame comes pouring back....and continue to overpower the benefit of being in a healthy, loving relationship with this man. So no, it hasn't been worth it. I would love to rewind the clock and take it back but THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. So this is my dilemma.

At the time of this affair, I originally planned that if i wanted to leave the marriage i would wait until my daughter graduated from high school. Ultimately, It was a stupid plan and DDAY happened a few months before the end of the school year.

So i see my options as follows......
1. Stay in my current relationship which is pretty solid and pray things change one day. Give it more time to see what happens
Or...
2. Break it off with my man, and feel guilty for hurting him and his 2 boys who are a big part of our lives. It would be a huge sacrifice, but hopefully my daughter would forgive me and we could have a more normal relationship
That was really honest of you. I am proud of you for writing that.

I wish I could tell you something that would help. It sounds like you and your OM wound up together by default.

Listen, what is done is done. You are right, you cannot change it. I have things that I carry guilt for, I still carry that guilt. Maybe I will forever.

I guess just stay the course, unless someone has a better suggestion.

Maybe your daughter will get over it some day, and maybe she won't, who can really say.

I have to ask this, is your OM the love of your life? Because if he really is, I don't really see how you could actually give him up, or is he just the default guy that you wound up with after your husband divorced you?

I ask because I have been with the love of my life for a year now. And I would crawl through glass to stay with her, do you feel that way?
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:01 PM   #24
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I thought he was the love of my life, but the circumstances have been weighing me down.....
I dont know anymore
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:14 PM   #25
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A side question - what was your relationship with your daughter before the engagement? You’ve said that she has disowned you and will not speak with you since the engagement. You have also said that it has been four years since d-day/divorce. Did you have a close relationship with your daughter before d-day? What kind of relationship did you have after d-day - were you talking? Did she live with you or did she see you often? Have you been involved in her life?

Also curious to know about your other children. Are you close with your other children? How have they handled the affair and the divorce? What do they think of their sister’s reaction?

I’m just trying to get a sense of the family dynamics. If you have previously shared a close relationship with your daughter, there may be a better chance that she will, for lack of a better word, “come around” with time. Especially if she sees her siblings handling things differently, it may influence her decision. BUT, it will depend on her personality and her relationship with you. Have you flaunted your new relationship and/or pressured her to meet or accept “your man.” (I have to say, I’m not your daughter and I would hope that you don’t say that in front of your children, but it bothers me when you use that phrase - it sounds selfish, entitled, and it feels to me like you are flaunting your new relationship). And have you spent time with her since d-day, investing and rebuilding the relationship?
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:26 PM   #26
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Here is what I would do in your place. It will seem radical to many, I'm sure.

I would move out of the bf's house into my own place.

I would go to my ex-husband and admit the wrong and ask forgiveness of him. I would express my gratitude and admiration to him for his kindness toward me in treating me decently throughout the ordeal. I would also ask him if he would like to try to put the marriage back together. He'll probably say he doesn't want to. But, if he does I would try to do it.

No matter what the exH says I would ask my daughter to meet me because I want to talk with her. I would then explain what a mistake I had made by dishonoring the institution of marriage and in doing so hurting her, her father, and other family members. I would ask her forgiveness, express my love for her and my regret for letting her down. I would also explain that I've asked forgiveness from God and I would express to her that from this point forward I want to honor God's ways for families. I would also explain to her that I had asked her father for forgiveness.

I would evaluate my life and the way I was living it, deciding to honor God and all others with honesty, humility and selflessness. I would allow my daughter to observe this behavior and my contrition for however long she needed to do so.

I would realize it will take a long time to rebuild my relationship with my daughter and I would pray daily that God would soften her heart, heal her, and put His love around her.

Not sure what I'd do about the bf (fiance). I believe I'd take a break from him, but not sure. Of course, if the exH wanted to try to put the marriage back together that would mean the bf would be out of the picture.
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:34 PM   #27
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My relationship with my daughter was rocky right before and especially after the divorce. She lived with her Dad, hasnt spent a night with me in 4 years. She also avoided my side of the family the first year after DDAY because she was angry at them for supporting me. She then chose to forgive me, but told me she would never meet the OM. I pay half her college tuition, help her plan for her future, have gotten her jobs, etc. Before the engagement, we would shop, get pedicures, plan parties, meet for lunch, etc.
I have one other daughter, my oldest who is almost 24. She lives with us and accepts my relationship. I wouldnt say she is super close with my OM but wants to see me happy i think. However, this fact will not sway her sisterís feelings
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:41 PM   #28
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Decisions we make in life have consequences. When it comes to things like affairs those consequences impact far more people then the affair partners.

Could be you will never have a relationship with your daughter again, credit to affair. That's all done now, no sense in beating yourself up about quitting on your marriage or the damage it's done to those affected by the decision to get involved in the first place.

Some will say you can't or shouldn't bend to the will of you kids. In general I agree, however, in a situation like this, the truth is you are asking your daughter to accept the thing that was a source of great pain for her. Pain that you created.

Here is my thinking, you've already lost alot because of this decision to be with this guy, is it worth it? Is it worth not being involved with your future grandchildren? Truth is, you can get another man who will be good to you, one in which you wouldn't have to deal with the guilt and run the risk of losing more. You can never replace that daughter. Is it worth it to make a stand and run the risk? If so then stay, and hope that your daughter comes around. But if she doesn't??? Is it worth it?
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:45 PM   #29
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My relationship with my daughter was rocky right before and especially after the divorce. She lived with her Dad, hasnt spent a night with me in 4 years. She also avoided my side of the family the first year after DDAY because she was angry at them for supporting me. She then chose to forgive me, but told me she would never meet the OM. I pay half her college tuition, help her plan for her future, have gotten her jobs, etc. Before the engagement, we would shop, get pedicures, plan parties, meet for lunch, etc.
I have one other daughter, my oldest who is almost 24. She lives with us and accepts my relationship. I wouldnt say she is super close with my OM but wants to see me happy i think. However, this fact will not sway her sister’s feelings
I would say, that is perhaps a difference in ages/the wisdom of a little life experience and most definitely, a difference in personality.

It’s obviously going to take a long, long time for your daughter to accept your relationship. The engagementust feel like adding insult to injury... you were doing the right things to rebuild the relationship, but this has clearly brought back the pain and betrayal... Sadly, you are now starting all over again.

I personally wouldn’t end things with the OM. As hard as it will be, your daughter needs to learn that your life is your life, and her life is her life. Unfortunately, those two lives can’t intertwine right now - not the way that you want it. It doesn’t mean that you can’t atill work to rebuild the relationship with your daughter. Give her a little time. Then, I would continue to reach out - let her know that you love her, there is no pressure to meet him, but that you are prepared to do what is required to rebuild your relationship. And - you do it - because you don’t want to lose your relationship with your daughter...

Obviously, you have made mistakes - BIG mistakes. But, you are remorseful and you are trying to make amends. You do deserve happiness, just not at the expense of other people. Right now, your happiness is at the expense of your daughter... which is why, I would not get married or expect her to meet your boyfriend. But, life is too short to hold this much resentment... it will eat her alive. I hope she learns that someday and you are able to rebuild your relationship and find some compromise.

Last edited by BaileyB; 13th August 2018 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:51 PM   #30
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I would say, that is perhaps a difference in ages/the wisdom of a little life experience and most definitely, a difference in personality.

It’s obviously going to take a long, long time for your daughter to be more accepting. The engagement likely feels like adding insult to injury... you were doing the right things to rebuild the relationship, but this has clearly brought back the pain and betrayal... sadly, you are starting all over again.

I personally wouldn’t end things with the OM. As hard as it will be, your daughter needs to learn that your life is your life, and her life is her life. Unfortunately, those two lives can’t intertwine right now - not the way that you want it. It doesn’t mean that you can’t atill work to rebuild the relationship with your daughter. Give her a little time. Then, I would continue to reach out - let her know that you love her, there is no pressure to meet him, but that you are prepared to do what is required to rebuild your relationship. And - you do it - because you don’t want to lose your relationship with your daughter...

Obviously, you have made mistakes - BIG mistakes. But, you are remorseful and you are trying to make amends. You do deserve happiness, just not at the expense of other people. Right now, your happiness is at the expense of your daughter... which is why, I would not get married or expect her to meet your boyfriend. But, life is too short to hold this much resentment... it will eat her alive. I hope she learns that someday and you are able to rebuild your relationship and find some compromise.
She sought out happiness at the expense of her daughters happiness when she was at a very difficult age of life. Some would say its balancing the scale to reciprocate the sacrifice now.

Truth is, none of us know the RIGHT answer. Which is why I suggest she goes with what's most important to her. If its her relationship with the guy then stay and hope for the best and vice versa.

Last edited by DKT3; 13th August 2018 at 10:54 PM..
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