Guest Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 You have far too high a set point for what constitutes 'crap'. And it is not, repeat NOT, acceptable to hit anyone anytime unless that person is physically threatening your life. The excuses you make are the excuses abusers make - that the other person 'caused' it. You are an abuser in the making and can expect to spend time in jail someday unless you radically change your thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
magichands Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Maybe I should have entiltled this thread "Why we shouldn't put up with abusive relationships". How about...why we should not tolerate them? As in, walk away. I don't think that problems of abuse get solved by giving the abuser "a taste of their own medicine". Maybe that works with schoolyard bullies, but it's more likely that they'll just seek out a less challenging target. Ohhh...memories. Link to post Share on other sites
superconductor Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 You really think I would be walking down the streets and hit whoever I find at random, don't you think that's crazy?? What's crazy is using physical violence against someone because they told you to shut up. So, if someone in a crowd told you to shut up, by your own admission you'd belt them. Yes, that's crazy. Get some help. Seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Alone1234 Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Well supercondutor if that person (man or woman) doesn't wanna get hit then they must not ever do one of the followings: 1) Hit me 2) Say the mother f word 3( Tell me shut up and raising their voice If you're mad at your partner, geez do something about it to work it out instead of yelling and saying shut up, geeez. No one has the right to tell you to shut up and scream at you (well only unless it's your parents trying to make a point to you). Why would you want to hit someone because they told you to shut up or are raising their voice?? I can understand if someone hit you and was trying to cause you pain and such then I could see you fighting back but other then that you shouldn't hit anyone because your mad. (No one may have the right to tell you to shut up or scream unless they are trying to make a point to you??) Why would that be ok and not any other time? I get yelled at but that doesn't make it ok regardless if hes making a point or not. Its not a good habit to get into. Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 What's crazy is using physical violence against someone because they told you to shut up. So, if someone in a crowd told you to shut up, by your own admission you'd belt them. Yes, that's crazy. Get some help. Seriously. I was referring to a relationship geez, if b/f were to do it. If it's just a person at random, I'll just ignore them. No where did I post about attacking random people. Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 Why would you want to hit someone because they told you to shut up or are raising their voice?? I can understand if someone hit you and was trying to cause you pain and such then I could see you fighting back but other then that you shouldn't hit anyone because your mad. (No one may have the right to tell you to shut up or scream unless they are trying to make a point to you??) Why would that be ok and not any other time? I get yelled at but that doesn't make it ok regardless if hes making a point or not. Its not a good habit to get into. I did stated unless it was my parents and only them making a point, then they can yell. Other than that, then it's no one. B/C see lets' say I'm in my current relationship, which I am and I get yelled at or tell the mother f word. How I'm I suppose to know the verbal ain't gonna then turn to physical. Once they yell and raise their voice, they in their minds think you're their property and that they can control you, so then when the next time comes, then it wouldn't be verbal but physical. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I was referring to a relationship geez, if b/f were to do it. If it's just a person at random, I'll just ignore them. No where did I post about attacking random people. It is really messed up to think that hitting someone you are in a relationship with is ever OK, even if they hit you first. Google "crazy making behavior". If you don't believe me. You're just young and you have no idea. Once you get into trouble for hitting back (because the police don't really care if someone yelled "shut up" at you or not. sorry.) you'll learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 Actually won't the police go with my story, I would just tell them the truth, that I just fought back. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Actually won't the police go with my story, I would just tell them the truth, that I just fought back. No, they don't care if someone yells at you first. Physical assault is classified differently. Believe me, I've experienced this. You are too young and naieve to realize how young and naieve you are. Link to post Share on other sites
superconductor Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Otter, just like the classic abuser, Ailec simply has no idea that anything she's doing is wrong. It's pretty typical, unfortunately. Any amount of common sense, reasoned argument and rational thinking won't sway her from her delusions. I hope she gets some help. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I would just tell them the truth, that I just fought back. And that will get you put in jail, because you are only allowed to 'fight back' IF your life is in danger. And somebody telling you to 'shut up' does NOT put your life in danger. I suggest you go to your local police department and have a discussion with them about what you are and are not allowed to do. You might finally realize just how wrong your 'rule' (which never existed) is. Or don't. And end up in jail. That might be safer for the people who have to deal with you. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Otter, just like the classic abuser, Ailec simply has no idea that anything she's doing is wrong. I missed the part of Ailec's posts that would suggest that she is a classic abuser, would you be so kind as to direct me to the post that you based your opinion on? Ailec, self defense is not agression. It is self defense and that means that you first attempt to remove yourself from the situation. If you are unable to get yourself away from the physical danger then and only then are you permitted to use only that force that is reasonable to insure your safety from physical harm. You can't legally use physical force to 'protect' yourself from something that someone says to you. For example, lets say that your bf tells you to 'shut up' and you bust him in the nose. If he calls the cops they'll come and assess the situation. The story will be that you physically assaulted him because of something he said to you. He didn't commit a crime, you did. They may not make an arrest but if they do arrest anyone it would be you alone. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Let's say, for example, you throw something at your boyfriend in an argument. Like a couch cushion or something. Then he, in retaliation, grabs you by the scruff of your shirt and pushes you against the wall and cocks his fist back like he's going to punch you in the face and break out all your teeth. He never actually hits you, but he gets in your face with his fist cocked back and keeps telling you that he wants to hit you so bad he can taste it. Who was abusive, in this situation? Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Otter, you really need to find better guys! Link to post Share on other sites
superconductor Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I missed the part of Ailec's posts that would suggest that she is a classic abuser, would you be so kind as to direct me to the post that you based your opinion on? My pleasure. Classic symptomology. First, denial: I don't wanna sound like an abuser myself, but I hate when some people have to put up with all that crap and the abusers just make excuses. then excuse-making: if that person (man or woman) doesn't wanna get hit then they must not ever do one of the followings: 1) Hit me 2) Say the mother f word 3( Tell me shut up and raising their voice and, finally, justification: yelling and telling a person "SHUT UP" is definately also abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 From what I know about abuse (which may be incorrect) I thought the 'classic' abuser is someone focused on power and control, that deny their abuse, minimize the impact and effect that their abuse has, blames anything but themself for their abusive behavior and follows a 'cycle of violence' pattern. I don't see a cycle of violence in Ailec's behavior or an overwhelming desire for power and control. I do see Ailec's unreasonable aggressive behavior being triggered in limited situations and she could use some help (counseling) for that. With that particular "Shut-up" word, I start getting flashbacks on it, that's why I would snap very fast at that word. Those were the words dad used on mom whenever he didn't know how to deal with her "once in a while tantrums (slang language)". Well basically if she didn't shut up then it would be hair pulling, shoving or spanking, not really betaing up, but he basically was doing what he would have done with an spoiled child. Ailec seems to have an awareness that there is no excuse for hitting her bf... Ok I still no excuse for hitting a partner, that just degrades their self-esteem and the hitter isn't the winner, instead she/he's the loser. ...and goes on to explain where she thinks the trigger for the words 'shut up' came from; her witnessing as a child her own parents engaged in abusive behaviors that no child should witness. So I think there is a good reason why Ailec has her reaction to the words 'shut up'. That doesn't mean acting out on her reaction is warranted but that there is a reason for it. Ailec could use more strategies for dealing with her reactions because she did say... if that person (man or woman) doesn't wanna get hit then they must not ever do one of the followings: 1) Hit me 2) Say the mother f word 3( Tell me shut up and raising their voice ...but an abuser would not immediately break up after doing that. Snapping back won't make me one b/c after that I would break up, but not without first responding back. Ailec is clear about not being the instigator as well... I also would not have the right to yell and say "Shut up" nor hit, and neither would my b/f have the right to. ...but doesn't yet understand and accept that she can have a non-violent response to a triggering event. But if I'm damn treating you nicely without any provocation and you all of the sudden for whatever reason decide to take crap and mess with me, It'll do it back. Simple as that. So I still don't believe that Ailec is classically abusive nor do I believe that she has the knowledge, resources, life skills, understanding...call it what you want...to see alternate non-violent ways to resolve conflict. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Let's say, for example, you throw something at your boyfriend in an argument. Like a couch cushion or something. Then he, in retaliation, grabs you by the scruff of your shirt and pushes you against the wall and cocks his fist back like he's going to punch you in the face and break out all your teeth. He never actually hits you, but he gets in your face with his fist cocked back and keeps telling you that he wants to hit you so bad he can taste it. Who was abusive, in this situation? Both people are being abusive (and lack conflict management skills) but that doesn't mean that they are abusers given this limited amount of information. I would say that for someone to be considered an abuser a pattern of abuse would have to be present. One incident does not make an abuser but there will be many red flags that will identify an abusive personality. That being said, if anyone engages in abusive behavior with me I would take all necessary steps to end my relationship/association with that person without resorting to retaliation. In the end, just walking or running away can be the best self defense. Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Finally it's clear up. Again, no where did I mention about going off at strangers if they were to tell me to shut up or yell, I would just ignore them or report them if I have to. As for an abusive relationship, now that's different. It's about the person who's not only your best friend, but who's suppost to care for you and not ever willing to hurt (unless and only if it's a life-death situation). Normal people in healthy relationships don't hurt each other nor look for dominace. As for the epiosodes I would hear as a kid, for a very long while, I had the concept of a man as an "uncontrollable machine" that gets mad so easily with just words and that hits everything a girl either doens't stop screaming at him or says slang language, that wants power. From then on, I decided I would never be the weaker version getting dominates nor control. Yes Craig, I should have never been put as a witness, much less not as a jugde to take sides, that wasn't my job. Thanx to that, I got messed up with the concept for a long time. Now I'm not trying to make excuses nor say "Oh well my parents didn't know how to solve their dispute so I'll do the same thing". No, I know the choices I made are now in my hands. I'm just saying how I wouldn't put up with abuse. Who knows what comes after yelling, raising your voice. If I let my b/f simple get away with yelling, telling me to shut up or else he'll hit me (thinking that's the only way you can solve an argument with the girl), then he'll just think it's his lucky day. If they get away with yelling, then they get away with hitting you. Craig yes, you also made a point when you stated abusers never wnating to leave their relationships. I would not constitute as an abusers, b/c I did mention earlier that after I were to retaliate in return, I would break it off and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Who knows what comes after yelling, raising your voice. If I let my b/f simple get away with yelling, telling me to shut up or else he'll hit me (thinking that's the only way you can solve an argument with the girl), then he'll just think it's his lucky day. If they get away with yelling, then they get away with hitting you. Craig yes, you also made a point when you stated abusers never wnating to leave their relationships. I would not constitute as an abusers, b/c I did mention earlier that after I were to retaliate in return, I would break it off and move on. Why would you have to retaliate before you broke up, then, if you were ending the relationship -- for any other reason than to just hurt the person who hurt you? Link to post Share on other sites
superconductor Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Why would you have to retaliate before you broke up, then, if you were ending the relationship -- for any other reason than to just hurt the person who hurt you? It's all part of the classic abusive behaviour symptomology. The abuser can come up with all sorts of excuses, none of which make any sense except to the abuser his/herself. I sincerely hope she gets some help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Why would you have to retaliate before you broke up, then, if you were ending the relationship -- for any other reason than to just hurt the person who hurt you? B/C I would not ever stand the chance of being the weaker person, being dominated isn't on my list of tolerance. Now supercondutor I don't deny I do have a temper, which I'm working on it (before it was worst as I did talk back on several occassions to a few stuff members when I was still in high school, and yes once I did told a bus driver to shut up, almost wanted to call her a b****). I don't blame my parents' episodes for it, after all every action I do take, it's my choice. Where did you see in my posts where I say "Oh I'm a perfect being with no problem", I didn't stated that. But it doesn't mean I'm an abuser that likes making excuses, which I'm not. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 ...I don't deny I do have a temper... ... But it doesn't mean I'm an abuser... Ailec1987 I don't believe you are an abuser and think that anyone that calls you one is mistaken. The State of Maryland defines abuse as a pattern of coercive control directed toward the victim. And further defines abusive behavior to involve the use of physical harm, emotional harm,or intimidation to control the victim's thoughts, feelings or actions. Abusive behavior results in a living environment of fear which impinges upon the victim's basic rights and freedoms. I do think you have anger management issues that have the potential to cause you a lot of grief in the future. Some people just won't take your anger without retaliating and making the situation even worse. That I can guarantee. Link to post Share on other sites
lonely&abused Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Well I don't wanna sound like an abuser myself, but I hate when some people have to put up with all that crap and the abusers just make excuses. Nope, there is never an excuse to lash out on anyone, unless your life is threatened then that would be the only sole reason. I gotta say I would snap right back if I get touched or if I'm told "shut up". Yes it must sound unfair but that's the way I see it. If they want to treat someone like crap then they should be treated like crap in return.[/q You know if your relationship has been as bad as mine I would say you can not try to hit back you can't even try to defend yourself from your abuser especially do not leave a mark if you do you will be the one charged as an abuser not your abuser. i know it sounds sad and doesn't make sense but it had happened to me in real life. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 hitting back? u are kidding right? what planet are u on? u need truth first u are not welcome - Link to post Share on other sites
Author samsungxoxo Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 hitting back? u are kidding right? what planet are u on? u need truth first u are not welcome - Yes, I mean it and I'm not kidding. I would NOT tolerate the slightest bit of abuse in my relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
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