I'm the MM and I love my OW - now what?

[lighthouse]

H2T -

I can understand you not wanting to go skiing. Strapping two pieces of wood (or whatever) to my legs and hoping that I can make it down to the bottom of a hill scares the s*it out of me. And I agree with LadyJane that you should tell her how you feel however somehow (and I don't know how) you have to make her feel that while you may not want to go skiing, that doesn't mean that you don't want to spend time with her.

If I try and put myself in her shoes then the first thing that I would think is "oh, he doesn't want to go skiing so her can see OW and go back to the affair." I am NOT suggesting that this is what you want but I just want to remind you to choose your words carefully because you don't want her to think that.

I hope that things work out for y'all.

LH

[Hard2Think]

Thanks LadyJane. Yes, I have been more forthcoming with my own thoughts since you last suggested it. I think it has helped our communication as well as having the fringe benefit of making me feel just a little better.

 

And I also think that you're right on about the power she needs to feel in the marriage.

 

Now that I look back - I realize that the times that she would switch to a more positive outlook were precisely those times where we did discuss the reasons for which I felt lousy in the marriage. The same for when the MC discussed those issues. In an odd way, the few times I did mention that I was getting no attention, was put on the bottom of the list, and that sex was ridiculously infrequent and rushed - those were the times that were followed by a short "lift" in her attitude. I guess maybe she prefers to hear that as opposed to the marriage being great and that just couldn't resist temptation.

 

 

 

I'm at a loss as to HOW you can get through to her, H2T. I think a one-on-one with your MC is your best bet. Frankly, and not meaning to criticize... getting your point across WITHOUT it seeming to be a "blame-shift" hasn't exactly been your long suit around here.

I'm teasing.... but still, I think you could benefit from your MC's guidance.

 

You COULD keep laying the groundwork in the meantime though. We talked about "sharing" your feelings with her as to what you were thinking and feeling before, during, and after the affair earlier. I think you could look at that as kind of like sowing seeds, dropping knowledge on her just a bit at a time.

 

She needs to be able to see the 'hamster on the wheel'.... your mind open to her like your head was made of glass, knowledge itself... available for the taking.

[Hard2Think]

It's not that. I love skiing. We all do in the family. I have no problem going with all of us as a family. I just like to be part of the planning. I also don't particularly feel like going with this other couple and their kids again. They're nice people and all, even if they're a little boring, but we already seem to see them nearly every weekend, we already went to our last skiing trip with them and frankly I just don't want to spend my few days of vacation with them 24/7.

 

In fact, if my wife were to have asked me first and would have expressed a real desire that we all go together - I'd very likely be ok with it. I just hate the fact that once again, she goes off and plans these things with these people and it's assumed that I'm going along for the ride as though I'm just another accessory on this trip.

 

H2T -

I can understand you not wanting to go skiing. Strapping two pieces of wood (or whatever) to my legs and hoping that I can make it down to the bottom of a hill scares the s*it out of me. And I agree with LadyJane that you should tell her how you feel however somehow (and I don't know how) you have to make her feel that while you may not want to go skiing, that doesn't mean that you don't want to spend time with her.

If I try and put myself in her shoes then the first thing that I would think is "oh, he doesn't want to go skiing so her can see OW and go back to the affair." I am NOT suggesting that this is what you want but I just want to remind you to choose your words carefully because you don't want her to think that.

I hope that things work out for y'all.

LH

[a4a]

classic power struggle. Your desires vs. Her desires.

 

She is judging that your relationship has gone well over the last 3 weeks based soley on you and your actions. WE is = You.

 

I highly suggest that you meet with the MC soon to discuss how to get her to learn to be open to your needs. The world does not revolve around her and just what she wants.

 

I am guessing that she sees you as rather weak. You have never stood up to her in your marriage and you have never forced confrontation. It is easier to just smile and nod your head and build resentment. (then act out like having affairs) This has become habit for her to run over you and be in complete control.

 

So to stop the power struggle you need to get her to look at you as a team instead of competitors.

 

I am taking a stab here but maybe just maybe your lack of response in the relationship when she pushes your buttons causes her to think the you really don't give a crap. I know this sounds odd. But I sit and watch our married couple friends W run all over the H. He shuts up and just deals with her to satiate her. Now if he just stood up to her maybe their marriage may last?

 

She is just like your W stahm, plans everything without asking, shops, buys, me me me me me...Pride and so important to project a perfect public image to the point where she tells flat out lies, friggin amazing...... she is friggin miserable. They are not even a couple at this point mistress and slave are more like it. ( I said to my H that her husband should get a gf, at least he may have some happiness in his life then, so I think I can kinda understand why you did have an A. If your W is anything like this one.)

 

Unfortunatley you got busted having the A so you don't have a leg to stand on right now. So call your MC and ask how you can make her see your needs, put you in an equal position of power in your M, and do so without making her declare all out war.

 

My guess is she will actually want this in the long run. Timing is everything with this and I think the MC can better open this door for you than you can yourself because of your "crime".

[Hard2Think]

classic power struggle. Your desires vs. Her desires.

 

She is judging that your relationship has gone well over the last 3 weeks based soley on you and your actions. WE is = You.

 

I hadn't even thought of that! Makes perfect sense .. as does the rest of your post. You pretty much described it accurately.

 

 

Maybe she's sees me as weak - I dunno. While it makes sense on paper to say I need to stand up and push back against her desires when they conflict with mine .. there is also a reason why the fellow you described "lets" it happen.

 

I've been down that road before. When something is important - I'll push back and I get my way. If she sees I feel very strongly about it, she backs down. But I can only do that and have an effect if I keep it infrequent.

 

As for the rest of the times, if I keep pushing back, I'll pay a price even if she backs down. In other words, if I force my way every time I don't want to do something, she'll be the one with the resentment and with her, that'll last for a long damn time. I'm even talking about simple things. I can spend an hour with her at the shoe store, giving her opinions she asks on her shoes - but she'll start whining if I spend 5 minutes at the computer shop. Sure I could force the issue and have her wait for me - but I would pay a price for that later in the form of the cold shoulder for a day or two. I don't feel like going through that. The whole power-struggle/manipulation issue is a big drag and goes against my nature.

 

I'd really like it if she could just out of kindness stay with me while I browse the computer shop myself. Would it be a big deal to give me 15 minutes or even a half-hour? Why the hell do I have to suddenly be an overbearing a**hole to get my way?

 

Like a well-meaning friend suggested - he said that when my wife doesn't greet me at the door or even say hi when I come in, I should go up to her and make a big stink about it. Great. So that way I know that she's coming to say hi because she doesn't want to get yelled at - not because she loves me. I'd rather she ignore me - at least it's honest.

 

Oops - looks like I rambled. What were we talking about again?

[a4a]

Well to get her attention maybe the MC needs to focus on her. Give her the spotlight with her life and problems.

 

Focus on her and maybe then she can see how selfish she is..... but you got to have her baited into this... she will never want to look hard at herself.

 

Good golly...... may be worth it to have a friend tell her what a self centered person she is.

 

Sounds like she has deeper issues than just being bitchy and selfish.

 

She sounds exactly like the Chicken Kitchen in our life.

 

Does she start drama between other people too? makes passive aggressive stabs at others? Curious how much alike she is to our friends W.

 

In the meantime just stay your course.

[Hard2Think]

I'm trying to stay the course - but I have to confess to you all that it's getting harder for me to do that as time goes by.

 

Before the A, and before D-Day, I was already feeling very distant from my wife due to the lack of intimacy and her general lack of caring for me. D-Day was a wakeup call for me in that I got reminded that I really love my wife after all. The reality of losing her was too much for me to take at the time.

 

After D-Day, we did spend a week or two of hysterical bonding before switching to anger mode. I know I deserved it and she has a right to feel those emotions. I took the lumps and kept my mouth shut. And I'm still taking them every day.

 

We had a couple of days of closeness and then back to anger mode. It's been nearly 2 months of this and while I've always wanted it to work out between us .. I'm starting to falter.

 

This all is starting to feel like an extension of the past several years of what I've gone through with her. I just can't even see the light at the end of the tunnel. She's cancelled the last 2 MC sessions because she "doesn't want to talk about it".

 

Her attitude is basically that I broke it, so now I have to fix it. She also keeps repeating the mantra that I was just into it for "extra sex" and that I'm exaggerating the issues in our marriage to justify it. In other words, the marriage was fine and I'm full of sh*t when it comes to the issues that I was harping about for 8 years.

 

I'm starting to get that feeling again that I'm wasting my life with her and her issues. I think sometimes that I'm fooling myself to think that she'll ever change. It's more likely to be more of the same except now she gets to beat me up for being a liar and a cheat for the rest of our marriage.

 

I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but I'm having a harder and harder time feeling like I love her .. I know it's terrible - but that's how I'm starting to feel.

[catgirl1927]

I didn't read the whole thread, so if I am oversimplifying then I apologize.

 

Why stay with someone if it's so much work? Is it really worth it? you really don't sound like you like her. It's one thing to love someone, but you should like them too.

[will2power]

I did read most of it... heck y'all its almost 900 posts to this thread!

 

I have been at the stage where I left my marriage and was with my MM (he left his marriage too) and we both went back and forth with our spouses. There comes a time when you look at your marriage a year or two out and say to yourself, "where am I today compared to when I decided to leave?". I think when I realized 6 months after getting back with my H and we were no better off than when I left except for my being more verbal to him about my ENs and he was more verbal about not wanting to compromise who he is in order to meet my ENs. It was very clear that we were better off going our separate ways and starting fresh.

 

But a big kudos to those who are willing to try again. Its not easy. I'm going through a D right now and working on the M would have been easier, though I don't think it would've made me happy with myself in the end.

 

I read earlier on about how H2T's posts were all about how he felt, etc. But c'mon, be real, if it not about him, then who's it about? The only thing that I saw that was quite alarming was the 180 turnaround from loving one woman to the next. I think that it would have been really beneficial had H2T and his W really did separate and he took some time to discover his wants and needs. I think that sometimes in order to really know what you want, you need to be alone for a little bit. Of course there are risks involved in being alone, but all things in life is a risk. Just some choices we make in life feels more risky than others.

I didn't read the whole thread, so if I am oversimplifying then I apologize.

 

Why stay with someone if it's so much work? Is it really worth it? you really don't sound like you like her. It's one thing to love someone, but you should like them too.

[Mz. Pixie]

Well to get her attention maybe the MC needs to focus on her. Give her the spotlight with her life and problems.

 

Focus on her and maybe then she can see how selfish she is..... but you got to have her baited into this... she will never want to look hard at herself.

 

Good golly...... may be worth it to have a friend tell her what a self centered person she is.

 

Sounds like she has deeper issues than just being bitchy and selfish.

 

She sounds exactly like the Chicken Kitchen in our life.

 

Does she start drama between other people too? makes passive aggressive stabs at others? Curious how much alike she is to our friends W.

 

In the meantime just stay your course.

 

A is right here. I can't understand a woman who doesn't work- spends money like crazy and won't even browse in a computer store with her H for fifteen minutes?? She could most certainly not handle my life- as my H is a teacher and a coach and doesn't make a ton of money. That's not important to me, but all of those trappings seem very important to her.

 

I've hesitated to think she has more issues going on through this whole entire thread- because I didn't want you to use that as an excuse, but seriously- could she be a narcassist??

 

Since she doesn't work how does she think she will support her lifestyle once you guys divorce?? Even if she gets alimony and child support- it probably won't be enough to support her in the lifestyle she has become accustomed to. Has she wrapped her head around that?? What about someone else helping you tuck the kiddos in bed?? That was the hardest thing for me to get past- that some other woman would one day tuck my kids into bed in my place. It's hard to make it as a single mom as most anyone else can tell you. It can be done- I did it- but I'm not sure she's "up" for working a job and busting her tail!

 

I have no doubt that you love her H. I just hope for your sake she's going to agree to take some ownership in this. Because if she doesn't I have no doubt you're going to leave her.

[Hard2Think]

She made a few comments related to divorcing me early on after D-Day. She said that she made it this far "on her own" so she'll be fine. She's not a stupid woman - but I agree that I don't think she's really come to grips with all that.

 

But then again - I wouldn't want her to stay with me for that reason. I could theoretically come under hard times - and then what?

 

I'm also a huge logistical support structure for her. I'm usually the one running the kids around to their various activities. I take them to school in the morning and I get them from swimming and karate in the afternoon. She does get them from school at times - but school is literally 4 minutes away. I'm also the one who most often cooks, does the laundry, takes out the trash, cleans the kitchen and who gets the kids ready for bed at night.

 

She's out of the house by 7 AM and gets back at noon. She's completely destroyed at night by 8 PM. So I know she'd have a very hard time getting by without me. But she's also very attractive, so I'm sure she'll find some other guy to halp out soon enough.

[Hard2Think]

Good question. I love her, I guess. Maybe I'm hanging onto the idea that things could be better ..

 

I didn't read the whole thread, so if I am oversimplifying then I apologize.

 

Why stay with someone if it's so much work? Is it really worth it? you really don't sound like you like her. It's one thing to love someone, but you should like them too.

[Island Girl]

Her attitude is basically that I broke it, so now I have to fix it. She also keeps repeating the mantra that I was just into it for "extra sex" and that I'm exaggerating the issues in our marriage to justify it. In other words, the marriage was fine and I'm full of sh*t when it comes to the issues that I was harping about for 8 years.

 

I'm starting to get that feeling again that I'm wasting my life with her and her issues. I think sometimes that I'm fooling myself to think that she'll ever change. It's more likely to be more of the same except now she gets to beat me up for being a liar and a cheat for the rest of our marriage.

 

You DID break it. I would feel the same way she does if you kept talking about all of the other problems in conjunction with the affair. You should be saying - "I had an affair. It was wrong. I was wrong to do it. I promised you I would be faithful in good times and bad and a broke that promise to you. Whatever is wrong in our marriage, it was wrong for me to attempt a quick selfish fix that would hurt you and our marriage." And it should be coming from you feeling that way. I don't care what was wrong before --- look at what you added to it by your actions? Take responsibility for it. Without 'reasons' (because they are all your own and selfish) which are seen as EXCUSES. There is no excuse for what you did. It was WRONG. There is no "BUT", "HOWEVER", or "WELL, SHE".

 

SHE wasn't there when you were enjoying your affair. SHE didn't have any choice in the matter. YOU cheated. Yourself. Your decision to deal with however you were feeling the way you did. She just got thrown onto a rollercoaster of emotions because of your selfish choices. Now she is supposed to work to make you happy? It doesn't work that way.

 

You broke your marriage vows. Now you are saying, "I know I broke my vows before but this time I really mean it". Fool me once shame on YOU fool me twice shame on ME, right? ---- What have you done for any length of time that would make her believe you unquestionably?

 

You have to ask yourself, you undermined the intimacy of your marriage, you betrayed your wife at the highest level, are you willing to do whatever it takes to make her okay again. There is no time frame. You may be held to a VERY open book standard of where you are, what you are doing, who you are with, etc. for a very long time. It could be forever. It is about HER feeling better about what YOU chose to do. This part is not about YOU feeling better. You helped your self feel better for a year at the expense of your wife and your family. Unless you get a clear understanding of that part, you will continue to go in circles.

 

As far as the other problems in the relationship - well I am whiney and spoiled and I HATE standing around while my husband does things only he is interested in BUT I do it. And the reason why? Honestly, it is because he treats me so well, -- doing things that are sweet gestures that I feel happy about, listening to me when I tell him how I feel or things I am interested in, probably how it was in the begining with the 2 of you. I do things I don't necessarily WANT to do to make him happy because he makes me happy.

I know the first thing you want to say is but I"M not happy -- why should I go the extra distance to make HER happy?

1. Because it has to start with someone.

2. SHE didn't CHEAT on YOU. She was home with your children, taking care of your life, while you went and enjoyed all that time away pretending they didn't exist (and don't say you didn't pretend they didn't exist because you built a whole fantasy relationship with someone else imagining the grass is greener).

How long have you been working on putting this all back together?

Because you were in an unhappy relationship not reaching out for help (like a MC) for how long?

And in an affair with someone else spreading yourself too thin and sacrificing time and energy to an outside person for at least a year, right?

Like everybody tells overweight people who want to lose weight --- you didn't gain weight overnight, you aren't going to take it off overnight.

It takes dedication. It takes commitment.

When your dedication and commitment was tested, you failed.

So it is up to you if you examine those words and choose to renew that promise. Then you have to do the work and it certainly won't be easy. But if you want it you will.

-- If you were that unhappy -- don't you stop and ask yourself how long has she been unhappy? I don't know one relationship where one person is miserable and the other one is just peachy. Usually they are both unhappy. So during the unhappiness you were BOTH feeling YOU pulled away from the relationship. It probably made her feel alone and isolated. She probably spent a lot of time alone with the children never having very much time to herself for herself.

It only takes one person to change for the relationship dynamic to change.

You talk over and over about her changing herself. Why don't you worry about what YOU are doing and how YOU are going to change? Because that is all you have control over YOURSELF. Do you honestly think you are golden and there is NOTHING you could do to improve yourself and your environment?

But it really has to be change. Not just actions but a change in mindset. Only then will you do things out of a true willingness and wanting instead of a tit-for-tat payback kind of thing. You have to decide if you really want a happy balanced family with her and then do what it takes to make that happen. Actions speak louder than words. And you'll have to be consistent. Only then will you see the dynamic change between the two of you (if she wants the relationship - it sounds like she does because she didn't kick you to the curb for the philandering and there are a lot of us that would have).

 

You may be wincing from some of what I have written here. Sometimes the truth hurts. And, I believe I am telling the truth, others may not.

[whichwayisup]

Island girl have you read H2T's thread from the beginning? Read all 58 pages?

 

I don't see how beating up on him now is helping, I mean, right now what's more important is BOTH of them turning to eachother and gaining respect, trust and love again takes two, not just one. So far, it seems he's doing all that is necessary to show his wife that he is willing to do what it takes to fix things - Until SHE decides to get past her anger and resentment, things won't change very much. SHE must be the one right now to decide "Yes, I am going to get past my anger and resentment, work on the marriage" or "NO, I can't do this, it's over." Until SHE intiates more, life is the way it is unfortunately.

 

Ofcourse he chose to go outside the marriage, but there were problems long before the A's started - So don't just put all the blame on him that the marriage is falling apart.

[Mz. Pixie]

Island girl have you read H2T's thread from the beginning? Read all 58 pages?

 

 

Yeah, I was like HUH?? I believe he has taken the blame for his part.

 

If she gets home at noon H why is she so wiped out by 8?? Especially with all the household help you give her??

[Hard2Think]

She teaches fitness classes and she probably overdoes it. She teaches 3 classes in a day sometimes which involves alot of running an jumping around. She's got high energy at that time and doesn't do those classes half-a**ed. Her students absolutely love her. Plus she gets up at 5:30 sometimes, 6:00 other times. She does this 7 days a week ..

 

So she winds up being physically worn out by the end of the day. She's usually too tired to cook, so I do it. When she does cook, it's usually something microwaved or spaghetti with bottled sauce because she doesn't have the energy anymore by evening. I prefer to make something a bit more substantial for the kids.

 

Yeah, I was like HUH?? I believe he has taken the blame for his part.

 

If she gets home at noon H why is she so wiped out by 8?? Especially with all the household help you give her??

[Ladyjane14]

I can spend an hour with her at the shoe store, giving her opinions she asks on her shoes - but she'll start whining if I spend 5 minutes at the computer shop. Sure I could force the issue and have her wait for me - but I would pay a price for that later in the form of the cold shoulder for a day or two. I don't feel like going through that.

 

See... this is one of the examples where I think conflict-avoidance is kicking your ass.

 

It's okay be amiable when you drop your message on her. A big grin and a bit of a compliment will go a long way. You know... H2t, I've found you can get away with saying ALMOST anything, if you do it with a smile and if you're not motivated by negative emotions. Having a southern accent doesn't hurt though!

 

Anyway... it doesn't have to be a big, deep discussion. Fun and off-the-cuff is a good first salvo. ie. "Look-ee here missy, I just spent an hour looking at ladies shoes, the least you can do is park your fine behind right here next to me while I get MY shopping done". Big grin... ogle the fanny... waggle your eyebrows... grab her hand and walk into the store. Done deal.

 

Even if she flips out on you.... SHE'S WRONG. Hell, it's not your fault if she's flipping out over nothing. Do your shopping and make sure it takes you at least 30 extra minutes, because if she's going to bitch anyway... she may as well have something to bitch about.

 

Conflict avoiders are TUNED in to their partner's emotions. They care if their partner is mad. That sounds great on the surface, but underneath it all if your partner's behavior is unreasonable, not standing your ground and giving in to her.... just ENCOURAGES unreasonable behavior.

 

It seems to me that what would be better is to show her what a pleasant beta male you can be ONLY when she's being equitable in her treatment of you. But when she's not.... hey, it's alpha male time. 'Alpha male' doesn't reward bad behavior. An 'alpha male' doesn't absorb other people's negative emotions as his own. Quite frankly, he doesn't care WHAT the disgruntled little woman thinks.

 

It's okay to fight sometimes, kiddo. Particularly when you KNOW you're in the right. The trick is to fight constructively. Hopefully, you'll learn more about that as MC progresses.

[Hard2Think]

LadyJane,

 

Good points .. but you know that just leads to pricing these favors. I stayed with her at the damn shoe store because I love her and I don't mind pleasing her - not because I'm trying to accumulate points to redeem the next time I want her to do something for me.

 

I have no doubt I could make her do things my way. But the price is highly discouraging.

 

I'll give you an example. Every time we go anywhere she insists that we take my car and that I drive. One time, I decided to make a point of saying no - you drive. She threw a fit. I didn't back down. So she says - "ok we're not going, then". Then she announces to the kids that we're not going now because "Daddy won't drive". I stood my ground. 15 minutes later, she decides she'll drive, after all. The whole week was shot from that one incident. I had to get the total silent treatment for two days and then the rest of the week was absolute crap. Then the next time she wanted me to do some other damn thing - she brought up the fact that I made her drive that time to reinforce the notion that I "owe her".

 

I'm not saying it can't be done - I just think that the marriage will be a constant battle under those circumstances and every time I win a battle, she will lose and will make me pay one way or the other.

 

I'm not sure I want to go through that anymore.

[catgirl1927]

I'm not sure I want to go through that anymore.

 

Ok, dude, I'm not excusing you for having an affair, that was a cowardly thing to do. But it sounds like you were miserable and the right thing to do then AND now would be to get out. That's just ridiculous.

[Ladyjane14]

I'll give you an example. Every time we go anywhere she insists that we take my car and that I drive. One time, I decided to make a point of saying no - you drive. She threw a fit. I didn't back down. So she says - "ok we're not going, then". Then she announces to the kids that we're not going now because "Daddy won't drive". I stood my ground. 15 minutes later, she decides she'll drive, after all. The whole week was shot from that one incident. I had to get the total silent treatment for two days and then the rest of the week was absolute crap. Then the next time she wanted me to do some other damn thing - she brought up the fact that I made her drive that time to reinforce the notion that I "owe her".

 

What do you do about it after the fact? Do you allow her to give you the silent treatment without making a complaint? Or do you call her on it?

 

If it was me... I'd be like, "WTF is the problem? Are you still pissing and moaning because I didn't want to drive last week? And if you are... how childish is THAT?"

 

People treat you like you let them, H2T. If she knows for an absolute fact that she's only got a limited time to sulk before you call her on the carpet, she's going to do her sulking FAST.

 

Current case in point.... She's cancelled the last two MC sessions. That's NOT acceptable if she wants to stay married. The problems CANNOT be solved by just one person at this point. So, if she really, truly, has no intention of applying herself to recovery, there's no point in you trying to stay in this thing.

 

Alpha male style.... "You either get your butt in the car and let's go work this thing out, or we call it quits NOW. I can't fix this thing on my own and if you aren't willing to get in the game, that's YOUR decision. But I'm not hanging around here watching the grass grow and waiting for you to pull your head out of your hindquarters".

 

If she calls you on it, see an attorney at your earliest opportunity and find out what it's going to cost you to separate legally. It's coming up on time for this girl to know that you are FOR REAL.

[Hard2Think]

If she calls you on it, see an attorney at your earliest opportunity and find out what it's going to cost you to separate legally. It's coming up on time for this girl to know that you are FOR REAL.

 

That is not far from where I am already .. !

[will2power]

I agree with you LJ. Well put.

 

Sorry for the long post, but here's my humble 2 cents....

 

A marriage will work if both people put in. Why were you going to leave her to be with the OW to begin with? I'm not advocating that its right to leave an M for another. But there was a problem in the M. You went back to the M with your tail between your legs because of d-day. It put you at a disadvantage but it was your choice to stay. Good for you for putting up a good fight, but from what you are saying, it appears to me like she is sabbotaging the M.

 

Tell her that she cannot cancel MC sessions. If she does, it equates to her telling you that it is over and your M is over and mean it. Let it rest on her conscience that while you made your fair share of mistakes that you ARE willing to put in 100% only if she is. There are boundaries that cannot be crossed going forward - like no cheating from you and no cancelling appts and making of plans without including you in planning, etc. She needs to know what is acceptable and unacceptable to you. It sounds like feeling like you are in a full partnership with full participation is important. Let her know that you won't accept any less.

 

I have a question based on the series of events as things seem to have gone from "I'm in love with the OW" to "OW is a psycho and I actually love the wife" all too quickly. So here's my question:

 

Do you think that you are afraid to leave the M because you are afraid to be alone or of the consequence of not having access to your children?

 

Here's what happened with me and my sMM to lead me to such a question:

I have been the OW that had my MM have a change of heart in the same way. I'm not trying to internalize this and am really trying to look at the issue at hand. I know now that my MM went from W to me to W because he has a fear of being alone. Was the M not working before I came along? Yes. It was over. Did he go back for her and because he loves her... he said he did at the time (there were red flags days before the split like aloofness). In the end, he went home because of the kids. He went home to the same environment from which he fled and nothing was changing. He needed to change himself in order for her to be happy. And for what? Because he was afraid to face life without familiarity and lose in the short term a sense of belonging.

 

As per actions by your wife... she sounds like one cold fish... here is why:

 

No matter how bad things are with my stbxh, if he were in the hospital today, I would take time off and be with him. Because while I no longer am in love with him, I still consider him a great friend to me. I would want him to not feel lonely. If one of his parents passed on, I would cancel trips to spend time with him and his family because that is what they would need. AND THIS IS MY STBXH... not my H, but my X. I think that the feeling of love can so easily be lost from not having an emotional connection from someone or having that connection destroyed. I think your W is doing a bang up job of making you feel disconnected to her.

 

As a former OW:

No matter what my sMM does (choose me, go back to her, choose me again and I hope to god not goes back to her, etc.), I would never confront his W with our relationship. That's just not my style and I love him too much to risk his losing a relationship with his children because of me. I know the OW part has been beaten to death, but I think that regardless of what happens, you are wise to not hook up with her again.

 

Sorry for the long post, but as a former OW, a soon to be DW and a GF to my SMM, I thought I may be able to help a little. Don't shoot me if you think I'm off base...

 

What do you do about it after the fact? Do you allow her to give you the silent treatment without making a complaint? Or do you call her on it?

 

If it was me... I'd be like, "WTF is the problem? Are you still pissing and moaning because I didn't want to drive last week? And if you are... how childish is THAT?"

 

People treat you like you let them, H2T. If she knows for an absolute fact that she's only got a limited time to sulk before you call her on the carpet, she's going to do her sulking FAST.

 

Current case in point.... She's cancelled the last two MC sessions. That's NOT acceptable if she wants to stay married. The problems CANNOT be solved by just one person at this point. So, if she really, truly, has no intention of applying herself to recovery, there's no point in you trying to stay in this thing.

 

Alpha male style.... "You either get your butt in the car and let's go work this thing out, or we call it quits NOW. I can't fix this thing on my own and if you aren't willing to get in the game, that's YOUR decision. But I'm not hanging around here watching the grass grow and waiting for you to pull your head out of your hindquarters".

 

If she calls you on it, see an attorney at your earliest opportunity and find out what it's going to cost you to separate legally. It's coming up on time for this girl to know that you are FOR REAL.

[Ladyjane14]

That is not far from where I am already .. !

 

Don't go down without a fight, H2T. :bunny:

 

Get with your MC for some pointers.... and don't allow yourself to leave the marriage without putting an END to your history of conflict avoidance first. You don't want to carry that bad habit out of the marriage with you like so much extra baggage.

 

You don't have to be mean and nasty to speak your peace. You can be sweet about it... but you're gonna have to get it done.

[will2power]

I have conflict avoidance because I'm afraid to lose the ones I love if I'm too harsh. I'm learning that its better to get things out in the open than to keep brushing them under the rug. If you don't talk about things then she won't know what's bothering you and if or when you decide that staying in a marriage to this woman is unfair to you, then she'll have the rug pulled from under her AGAIN. You need to play it fair. TELL her your issues. COMMUNICATE. If she can't handle it, then you know that you've tried your best.

 

Like LJ said, you don't have to be mean, but state the things that bother you and why. My MM taught me that its ok to feel and its important to express your feelings. People should not judge you for HOW you feel. The only thing they can judge you on is WHAT you do with those feelings.

 

I think that she has done some hurtful things to you. Let her know what those things are and why you feel hurt by them. If she doesn't empathize or understand, then you need to figure out what you need to do for yourself. Love yourself enough to free yourself if that's what's required. You can be the best person in the world but not maybe you are simple not the right person for her or vice versa?

 

My stbxh is a wonderful man (though there are times going through the D that I think he's the spawn of satan, but I think everyone goes through that), but he's just not the right man for me. I think I read a thread here once that said something like, "love shouldn't be THAT HARD, love should be well... just love". I'm not advocating not to work on things, but really, should love really be that hard?

 

Don't go down without a fight, H2T. :bunny:

 

Get with your MC for some pointers.... and don't allow yourself to leave the marriage without putting an END to your history of conflict avoidance first. You don't want to carry that bad habit out of the marriage with you like so much extra baggage.

 

You don't have to be mean and nasty to speak your peace. You can be sweet about it... but you're gonna have to get it done.

[Hard2Think]

Very good points. I think maybe you're right .. it's ridiculous to go through life like this with the eternal hope that things will get better someday -only to realize at old age that life was wasted on that hope and now there's none.

 

I have conflict avoidance because I'm afraid to lose the ones I love if I'm too harsh. I'm learning that its better to get things out in the open than to keep brushing them under the rug. If you don't talk about things then she won't know what's bothering you and if or when you decide that staying in a marriage to this woman is unfair to you, then she'll have the rug pulled from under her AGAIN. You need to play it fair. TELL her your issues. COMMUNICATE. If she can't handle it, then you know that you've tried your best.

 

Like LJ said, you don't have to be mean, but state the things that bother you and why. My MM taught me that its ok to feel and its important to express your feelings. People should not judge you for HOW you feel. The only thing they can judge you on is WHAT you do with those feelings.

 

I think that she has done some hurtful things to you. Let her know what those things are and why you feel hurt by them. If she doesn't empathize or understand, then you need to figure out what you need to do for yourself. Love yourself enough to free yourself if that's what's required. You can be the best person in the world but not maybe you are simple not the right person for her or vice versa?

 

My stbxh is a wonderful man (though there are times going through the D that I think he's the spawn of satan, but I think everyone goes through that), but he's just not the right man for me. I think I read a thread here once that said something like, "love shouldn't be THAT HARD, love should be well... just love". I'm not advocating not to work on things, but really, should love really be that hard?