I'm totally and utterly heartbroken.

[Whitt]

Well, I wish you the best. Remember that what she is doing has nothing to do with you. She's the one with the problems. If you ever need to talk find me on here or send me a private message.

[uksurfer]

She's the one with the problems.

 

Jeez, you're not wrong. I've just had another one of those WTF moments. A couple of days ago she was telling me that her life was her own now, and that I had no right to ask her where she was going if she was going out and when she'd be back, and who'd she been out with, etc. She also said that she's in no way interested in where I go, what time I get back, and who I go out with. And it sounded like she damn well meant it.

 

So, last night I went out for a couple drinks and to watch the footie. Well one drink led to another, as they do, and it turned out that I didn't get home until 3am.

 

Tonight, she's just got mad at me because I didn't have the decency to tell her where I was going, what time I would be back, and who I was with.

 

Brick wall, meet head.

 

 

If you ever need to talk find me on here or send me a private message.

 

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

[TMonkey]

Hello UKsurfer. I know I'm coming late to this post, but I have some advice to you that I've heard from some pretty amazing people. I had a horrible breakup last year, and when I took this advice it really worked amazing things. And I also know it will feel as if you are going against every instinct in your body.

 

When you have a moments rest away from her, calm yourself, them approach her. Be very relaxed, even Zen. Say to her these words "I don't want to break up, but if this is truly what you want, then I will go with it." In other words, tell her you're letting her go. And then show her in every way you are letting her go, not with malice but with a positive attitude. Even help her to change her life. Be CHEERFUL about it, as if you have come to a deeper understanding about what would make her happy.

 

This has an amazing effect. She no longer has anything to run away from. She no longer has anything to "rebel" against. You transform yourself from an enemy to something she has lost.

 

Even when she provokes you, don't fight. Even when she says all her crazy s*** (and she will try to test you mercilessly) don't fall for it. Just walk away.

 

You are Zen. You are chill. And she can no longer cast you in the light of someone stopping her freedom. In fact, she will begin to realize that maybe she has lost you, that she has gotten "what she wanted".

 

Do not tell her you love her unless she says it first. Do not ever say you want her back. These words will feel to her like weapons trying to control her. do not act hurt, because she'll see that as blame against her. Be CHEERFUL, and helpful, and supportive of what she wants.

 

You will always have another shot with her, you're the father of her children, so don't worry about that. Right now, she has to break free. But you'll increase your chances vastly of getting her back if you help speed her on her way. she'll have nothing to hate you for, and she'll begin to realize slowly what she lost.

 

I know it's an act, but it worked for me. It kept my girlfriend around when she wanted to leave, and helped me see clearly that it was ME who didn't want HER. You're situation may be different, but in any case, you will no longer be her bad guy.

 

I hope this helps.

[TMonkey]

btw, I don't really agree with Stillafool. Showing her anger just gives her something to reacct against and pull away from. Yes, you shouldn't be a doormat, but no, you shouldn't throw out negativity. She'll just use that to feel justified in leaving.

 

You have a connection that goes way beyond what some 24 year old can offer her. Be cool and in time I believe she'll realize that.

[CryingCanuck]

Tmonkey,

I've read this thread and I think you're right....

Anger however in a longstanding relationship builds, especially when dealing with this type of situation but it's sure worth the try.

In my situation I've basically done that, not for long mind you but working on it. I indicated that my door is still open but I'm not longer trying to fix things. I asked for no contact which is being presently broken by her and I'm constantly reminding her to keep on topic regarding our kids but no talk of us. It's so hard but it has to be that way for my own piece of mind and self respect. I might lose her anyway, but actually I know I'll lose her permanently by proceeding the other way.

[TMonkey]

"In my situation I've basically done that, not for long mind you but working on it. I indicated that my door is still open but I'm not longer trying to fix things. I asked for no contact which is being presently broken by her and I'm constantly reminding her to keep on topic regarding our kids but no talk of us. It's so hard but it has to be that way for my own piece of mind and self respect. I might lose her anyway, but actually I know I'll lose her permanently by proceeding the other way."

 

I would agree with what you're doing, but you really want to throw her for a loop? Flirt. Don't talk about serious relationship stuff, but flirt. Remind her of something you used to do when things were fun. And only do it in response to something she says or does, don't see her out to flirt with her. If she reacts badly then act like a horny teenager who took it too far and laugh it off.

I do this all the time and it works great. An ex used to hate me and I playfully flirted witth her, acting exactly like I did when I first chased her. She was reallly put off at ffirst,, but then began calling more when she realized she couldn't start a fight.

First, it throws them off guard, and second, if they get mad at it the they are the ones being the negative one in the conversation. Flirt, and if she doesn't respond act like you've got ten more women to flirt with and you dont mind (don't wever mention another woman, just create that air) and if she does respond, you'll bring up pleasant memories in her. Besides, you may just have fun.

 

The point in all this is to become a source of happiness and attention in a positive way for them. When does a woman ever turn away an opportunity to get positive attention?

[Woggle]

Jeez, you're not wrong. I've just had another one of those WTF moments. A couple of days ago she was telling me that her life was her own now, and that I had no right to ask her where she was going if she was going out and when she'd be back, and who'd she been out with, etc. She also said that she's in no way interested in where I go, what time I get back, and who I go out with. And it sounded like she damn well meant it.

 

So, last night I went out for a couple drinks and to watch the footie. Well one drink led to another, as they do, and it turned out that I didn't get home until 3am.

 

Tonight, she's just got mad at me because I didn't have the decency to tell her where I was going, what time I would be back, and who I was with.

 

Brick wall, meet head.

 

 

 

 

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

 

She is losing control of you and that is what makes her angry. She wants the split to be on her terms and when you all of a sudden start doing what you want she gets angry.

[uksurfer]

btw, I don't really agree with Stillafool. Showing her anger just gives her something to reacct against and pull away from. Yes, you shouldn't be a doormat, but no, you shouldn't throw out negativity. She'll just use that to feel justified in leaving.

 

You have a connection that goes way beyond what some 24 year old can offer her. Be cool and in time I believe she'll realize that.

 

Yeah, I realise that, and I'm not especially worried about this 24 year old to be honest. I mean, she can't really be *serious* about that, can she? And he's a flight away, too, so it's not like she can just hook up with him whenever she wants. This online affair stuff is pretty powerful, though, and I imagine you can fuel a pretty strong fantasy when you're not actually with that person face to face. I also suspect that if they ever do meet, well, he's just a 24 year old kid, and she's like 38, married, and has 2 kids. There's a bit of difference between my wife and all the other 24 year old girls he'll be meeting every weekend. So, I'm not sure what HE wants out of that relationship, apart from the obvious, of course.

 

But I'm not sure I want to get myself back into a 'hope' kind of situation, either. That's gonna kill me. Yeah, I'd love to get the 'real' her back, but this is just so difficult while she's still living here. I'm doing my best to be calm and pleasant and nice and supportive. For example, I was on the phone last night arranging to go visit some friends of ours (they were my friends before I married my wife) and they told me they're having another baby, and I was giving them all the congratulations, etc. Then immediately I put the phone down, I had to go book some flights and make some more phone calls, etc. This new baby thing just went completely out of my mind.

 

A couple hours later, my wife was all mad again saying "so, am I NOT allowed to know that _____ is pregnant again then?" She'd obviously sat and stewed over that for a little while, and forgetting to tell her was genuinely not intentional on my part. It honestly went straight out of my mind.

 

Then a little later, we were both watching TV, and we were talking and laughing again like we always used to.

 

Jeez. Does she want us to lead separate lives or not?

 

For crying out loud, if you really knew that leaving someone was absolutely, definitely the right thing to do, you'd actually *leave*, right?

[DesperateDad]

Yeah, I realise that, and I'm not especially worried about this 24 year old to be honest. I mean, she can't really be *serious* about that, can she? And he's a flight away, too, so it's not like she can just hook up with him whenever she wants. This online affair stuff is pretty powerful, though, and I imagine you can fuel a pretty strong fantasy when you're not actually with that person face to face. I also suspect that if they ever do meet, well, he's just a 24 year old kid, and she's like 38, married, and has 2 kids. There's a bit of difference between my wife and all the other 24 year old girls he'll be meeting every weekend. So, I'm not sure what HE wants out of that relationship, apart from the obvious, of course.

This is a point I've brought up that actually wasn't too well received. LOL. I told my wife during an argument that all those guys on myspace and at the supermarket just want to f*ck, not take care of her and the kids!

 

But I'm not sure I want to get myself back into a 'hope' kind of situation, either.

Good for you. Acceptance of the situation as it is right now will help you deal with things in a more positive way. In my case, it has also brought about a huge change in my wife's disposition. We're getting along much better.

 

Then a little later, we were both watching TV, and we were talking and laughing again like we always used to.

 

Jeez. Does she want us to lead separate lives or not?

 

For crying out loud, if you really knew that leaving someone was absolutely, definitely the right thing to do, you'd actually *leave*, right?

I'm wondering the same thing right now. I think I have a better understanding of things today than I did at any time before (I'll update my thread later), but I do think it's a decision they make in the midst of an internal emotional crisis that we (the husbands) may not even be aware of.

 

When we react as they expected, their decision is validated and they tend to go ahead with the divorce. When we react differently, they are stumped and it seems to jar them out of their fantasies a little bit. This is just my current theory based on my meager experience with this situation, but it seems to be what's going on. Keep up the good work!

[uksurfer]

DD, have you read the forums at http://midlifecrisisforum.com/ - I've just read a posting by an 'expert' in mid life crisis, and it describes to the letter what my wife is currently doing. Not sure if the same applies to you, but it may help. It's actually given me a new kind of inner peace.

 

I'll cut and paste the relevant parts here...

 

*******

 

The people in full blown MLC, make decisions hard and fast. Because the justifications for their decisions are typically weak, they usually refuse to discuss the situation with close friends or loved ones who may attempt to change their minds. This is why they withdraw from that circle of acquaintances, and often develop a support group consisting of people they have only known for a short time. Since the new group does not have intimate knowledge of the MLCer's life, they have no choice but to support and encourage their decisions.

 

I believe that people in full blown MLC are in denial. They typically start with the "I love you, but am not in love with you" story. In their minds, this justifies their decisions and actions. However, they soon realize that they are still unhappy, and become more confused. Eventually, they decide that they never loved their spouse, or that they have been unhappy for more years than they originally thought. They start to blame their spouses for their perceived unhappiness. In reality, what they are doing is their own form of detachment. If they believe that their spouse caused their problems, it becomes easier for them to "walk away" from their marriage. They usually refuse to acknowledge any happy or good times in their married life, because it defeats their own reasoning. They may "invent" or blow out of proportion, events that they feel validated their unhappiness in the relationship.

 

People in full blown MLC, do not want to even consider any options, other than those they have formulated. It seems they have a real need, to convince their spouses of the situation as they see it. When the spouse refuses to accept those views, or offers arguments that seemingly prove those points invalid, the MLCer's become angry. They need to convince their spouse, in order to help convince themselves. This is when their real hurtful behavior starts. If they can create an atmosphere of intense disharmony between themselves and their spouse, it only serves to justify all the decisions they have already made. When the spouse counters with kindness, caring, or compassion, it creates an internal conflict in the MLCer. You see HIH, they need to dislike you and what better way to achieve that, than by getting you to dislike them. It allows them to distance themselves from those people that were so important to them.

 

As you know, MLCer's cannot recognize what is happening to them. They believe they are still the same people they have always been, and that they are merely taking control of their lives. They often feel that they are the victims, not the spouses they left behind. HIH, you mentioned your dogs as being the babies your W and you cherished. You're hoping she'll miss them, and I'm sure she will. However, she is going to rationalize that you "need" them more than she does. She will feel she is doing the noble thing, by leaving them in your care, to give you comfort. She's proving to herself that she is a good person, and overlooking the fact that her other actions are inconsistent with that view.

 

It is very important for your own recovery, to understand as much as you can about MLCer's and what drives them. Why? Because then, you will truly see that this is all about them, and not really about you. Oh sure, you are impacted by their decisions and actions. But they don't really see it that way. You are merely a speedbump in their journey to glorious expectations. They definitely think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. They don't realize that the grass is greener where you water it!

 

One thing you MUST come to understand is that the MLCer's believe their choices are the right ones. They have come to believe that they are doing nothing wrong. They have convinced themselves that there are no other options. Haven't you read numerous posts on this forum, about spouses who just walk away from a 10, 15, 20, or 25-year marriage, and refuse to make any attempt to save it? From the accounts of the spouses left behind, they usually felt that they had a good marriage, a good relationship, and had seen no indication of any real problems. Why won't the MLCer at least make an attempt to restore what once was? HiH, you could go back and review your notes from lessons #1 & #2 to find the answer, but I'll save you the trouble. The people in full blown MLC are consumed with themselves their happiness is of paramount importance to them. Everything and everyone else in the world plays second fiddle to their needs. But, (and this is a very important but), the MLCer's will not admit this to anyone including themselves. If they did, they couldn't see themselves as the victim. If they admitted this, then they might have to consider that they are making a mistake. Their own self-image could be destroyed and they will NOT take that chance.

 

******

[stillafool]

But I'm not sure I want to get myself back into a 'hope' kind of situation, either. That's gonna kill me. Yeah, I'd love to get the 'real' her back, but this is just so difficult while she's still living here. I'm doing my best to be calm and pleasant and nice and supportive. For example, I was on the phone last night arranging to go visit some friends of ours (they were my friends before I married my wife) and they told me they're having another baby, and I was giving them all the congratulations, etc. Then immediately I put the phone down, I had to go book some flights and make some more phone calls, etc. This new baby thing just went completely out of my mind.

 

A couple hours later, my wife was all mad again saying "so, am I NOT allowed to know that _____ is pregnant again then?" She'd obviously sat and stewed over that for a little while, and forgetting to tell her was genuinely not intentional on my part. It honestly went straight out of my mind.

 

Then a little later, we were both watching TV, and we were talking and laughing again like we always used to.

 

Jeez. Does she want us to lead separate lives or not?

 

 

 

You can expect more behavior from her like this as long as you keep doing what you're doing (moving on with your life). I think it is a great idea for you to go visit your friends. I'm sure that made your W feel left out and jogged old memories about your friends and realizing she may be giving this up too. I'm sure she must be wondering why you are leaving town when you should be home watching her. Please when you return from your vacation come in happy as possible. Don't ask her anything about what she's been up to personally I would just focus on the kids. I think you are going to feel much better when you return. It's funny how getting away can somehow clear the head.

[uksurfer]

I think it is a great idea for you to go visit your friends. I'm sure that made your W feel left out and jogged old memories about your friends and realizing she may be giving this up too.

I'm certain it made her feel left out, too. We were all really, really good friends, and we always had a good time. I can't wait for next weekend when I fly out there all by myself. Heh. And yep, I'll be coming home with a mile-wide smile.

 

Another thing I noticed the other day when her sister stayed with us. Her sister lives around 250 miles away, btw, so we didn't see her that often. I'd always gotten on really well with her sister, and she thought of me as a good friend, too. Anyway, as her sister was leaving yesterday morning, I told her (in earshot of my wife) that this was probably the last time I'd ever see her again - which is relatively true.

 

Out of the corner of my eye, I saw my wife's jaw hit the floor.

[dgiirl]

UKS, thanks for posting that! That describes exactly my exh. The way he views himself as a victim, the way he thinks he's done absolutely nothing wrong, the way he blamed me for his unhappiness for years, and the way he just walked away without ever once trying to save the marriage, and even the way he gets upset when i'm nice and tries to make me upset.

[uksurfer]

How old was he, dgiirl?

[dgiirl]

How old was he, dgiirl?

 

he was 32... maybe a little too young, but he did/does everything in that post.

[uksurfer]

he was 32... maybe a little too young, but he did/does everything in that post.

 

Yeah, weird, huh? Well that text describes my wife to the letter. She'll be 38 in a couple weeks. But before all this kicked off, I said that I'd noticed her in the mirror an awful lot saying how old she thought she looked (which she didn't btw).

 

That's classic crisis stuff. But who knows. It might not even be a crisis. I might never find out what it is.

 

I'll eat my bloody shoes if it isn't one though.

[dgiirl]

unfortunately, even if it IS one, it still might make no difference in saving the relationship. You just have to focus on yourself and start making your life better and hope she'll eventually snap out of it

[uksurfer]

unfortunately, even if it IS one, it still might make no difference in saving the relationship. You just have to focus on yourself and start making your life better and hope she'll eventually snap out of it

 

Yeah... already resigned myself to that, to be honest.

 

I would like to wait for her, don't get me wrong, but she's really, really hurt me. And, to be honest, I'm getting tired of all the weird conflicting s*** she's saying to me, seemingly to try to draw me into an argument - just like that MLC advice above. It's textbook stuff.

 

I must have the patience of a damned saint, I tell you.

 

Anyway, I've also been thinking that why should it be me that sleeps up in the loft on the crappy guest bed in the cold? I haven't done a bloody thing. So tonight, I'm getting back in my own bed whether she likes it or not. If she doesn't like it she can lump it in the damned loft.

 

And I hope it rains and the roof leaks on her.

 

Jeez.

 

So dgiirl... we should hook up sometime and compare exes over a drink.

 

(Not really, I'm just testing my ladykilling dating skills. looks like I'm gonna need 'em!)

[DesperateDad]

Wow, uksurfer, that posting hits the nail on the head. It helps that it resembles things so closely, otherwise I would have more doubts. I keep hearing from my W that this is a midlife 'awakening' rather than a MLC. I'm sure that's what it feels like to her.

 

I'm going to check out those forums and see what kind of advice they give. I'll bet it's pretty much the same as Plan A from marriagebuilders. The whole Plan A thing seems to stop the arguing right there and change the whole dynamic of our interaction. It really was shocking for her to see me change so much for the better and just like that.

 

We had a great date last night for her b-day (37, BTW) and she's really seeming to warm up to me. The only sticking point is the OM who she can't seem to let go of completely. She still insists he's just a good friend. I understand why she feels that way, but I don't want him around.

[dgiirl]

So dgiirl... we should hook up sometime and compare exes over a drink.

 

(Not really, I'm just testing my ladykilling dating skills. looks like I'm gonna need 'em!)

 

woohoo my first date!! But the commute is a bit far if you're in the uk lol

[uksurfer]

woohoo my first date!! But the commute is a bit far if you're in the uk lol

 

Heh. Unfortunately, thats what I was thinking, too. Hey, we could have some, like, online dates. That would really PO my wife.

 

You're not 24 and living with your parents, are you?

 

But don't you think that if two people who'd been through this kind of thing got together, then there'd be more chance of their relationship working? Both would know how much it hurts, and both would know that you need to work extra hard so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

 

Anyhoo, just thinking out aloud...

 

And DesperateDad: the advice I'm getting from everywhere I look is that you just have to face up and let go. The more you try to persuade, cajole or anything else, the more they'll want to jump out. It's tough, but it seems like that's just the way it is. Maybe they'll realise and come back. Maybe they won't. I'm finding this to be a little cliched now, but the best thing to do is to take care of yourself. Maybe keep a little hope alive for a while, but don't spend the rest of your life hoping for something that might never happen.

 

However, you sound like you're doing OK with the dates and the talking. It's my wife's 38th birthday in a couple weeks, and right now, I wouldn't even dare suggest that we go out together.

 

She'd knock my block off.

[dgiirl]

Heh. Unfortunately, thats what I was thinking, too. Hey, we could have some, like, online dates. That would really PO my wife.

 

You're not 24 and living with your parents, are you?

 

But don't you think that if two people who'd been through this kind of thing got together, then there'd be more chance of their relationship working? Both would know how much it hurts, and both would know that you need to work extra hard so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

 

lol No i'm not 24, i'll be 32 soon and hopefully i wont have to resort to living back with my parents

 

I do think that people who have gone through similar experiences can have better relationships. They have more potential to realize the pitfalls of relationships and are willing to communicate better at it next time around (unless you meet someone like our ex's who blamed the other spouse for the failure of the marriage). I think we all want someone who's at the same stage as us. If you are divorced with kids, you'd probably feel more comfortable around someone similar. If you're young with no experience, you'd probably feel more comfortable with someone like that. I'm (soon to be) divorced yet no kids. It's hard to find people in my situation. Most have kids, or have never been married (which freaks me out more).

[DesperateDad]

And DesperateDad: the advice I'm getting from everywhere I look is that you just have to face up and let go. The more you try to persuade, cajole or anything else, the more they'll want to jump out. It's tough, but it seems like that's just the way it is. Maybe they'll realise and come back. Maybe they won't. I'm finding this to be a little cliched now, but the best thing to do is to take care of yourself. Maybe keep a little hope alive for a while, but don't spend the rest of your life hoping for something that might never happen.

 

You're right about this. I'm trying to let go a bit without letting go. It's hard for me to do this, though, because I tend to be an all or nothing kind of guy.

 

However, you sound like you're doing OK with the dates and the talking. It's my wife's 38th birthday in a couple weeks, and right now, I wouldn't even dare suggest that we go out together.

 

She'd knock my block off.

 

That's what's funny. We're having a great time dating. She just thinks she might not be able to live the way she wants to and still be married. I'm not entirely sure what that means, either. The more I live, the less I seem to know about anything...

 

Well, I'll hoist a drink to you all later. Sometimes that's the only thing that helps me to make sense of life at all. Thank God for Canadian Whisky!

[uksurfer]

Well, I'll hoist a drink to you all later.

I'm hoisting one - actually, several - to me right now. dgiirl, wanna join me?

 

We just had another argument in which she.... ah, f*** it. She just has this amazing temper all of a sudden. I have no idea where this comes from, but she has this incredible anger that she's directing at me for absolutely no reason. It's like she wants to get into these rows intentionally. Then 20 minutes later, it's all reasonably normal again.

 

I'm just getting really, really dog tired of it now, and tonight, I honestly think I want out, too. Seriously, this is wearing me down. Someone get me my original wife back quick, for christ's sake.

 

C'mon... this is all a joke, right? Someone tell me where she is. What have you all done with her? Where've you hidden her? She's around here somewhere, right?

[Woggle]

I'm hoisting one - actually, several - to me right now. dgiirl, wanna join me?

 

We just had another argument in which she.... ah, f*** it. She just has this amazing temper all of a sudden. I have no idea where this comes from, but she has this incredible anger that she's directing at me for absolutely no reason. It's like she wants to get into these rows intentionally. Then 20 minutes later, it's all reasonably normal again.

 

I'm just getting really, really dog tired of it now, and tonight, I honestly think I want out, too. Seriously, this is wearing me down. Someone get me my original wife back quick, for christ's sake.

 

C'mon... this is all a joke, right? Someone tell me where she is. What have you all done with her? Where've you hidden her? She's around here somewhere, right?

 

Maybe you are better off without her. Look at the way she is treating you and yourself if you want to be married to a woman like that. You said you are going on a vacation so just forget about her and enjoy yourself.