I'm totally and utterly heartbroken.

[VegasFan]

That's actually the thing that's worrying me the most. That I'll never be able to put complete trust in anyone like I just did in this relationship. That I'll never be able to fully let go and just be *me* again, like I did here too, without thinking that I need to hold something back - just in case...

 

Happily married, two kids. You sound like you're doing OK, though!

 

Yeah, after things ended with my ex, one of the things that attracted me to my wife was her emotional stability. More than any other woman that I'd met previously she seemed like she had a healthy, well adjusted emotional state with no baggage (no history of child sexual abuse, addictions, etc). This doesn't mean that she still couldn't 'snap' one day I suppose, but hopefully it's a little less likely than my previous relationship.

 

That's me ~ NOW ~ I know about bi-polar disorder~ ADHD, obessive~compusive dis~horder, menopause etc. You're clicking along for twenty years, and "BAM!!!!" Five weeks of what you've been going through! It ain't no joke! Its not pretty, and its not fun! It ain't no joke!

 

That's something I've learned also. Mental disorders are FAR more common than most people realize. I've read that one in three women are sexually abused. Also I've heard that a very large percentage of the population has mental health issues; there is plenty of bipolar disorder, OCD, schizophrenia, co-dependency, and other issues among both of the sexes however I think that with women it tends to be a bit more dramatic because of the hormones. I remember when my ex snapped and did a complete 180 she would literally walk around the apartment and tell me, "I'm changing" over and over again. I didn't even know what to say to that, it was so freakishly bizarre.

[uksurfer]

Aww, crap. Mindf*** alert.

 

She's only just left after coming here straight from work. It's her birthday today, and I made dinner for the 4 of us. She's always said that all these visits were for her to come and see the kids, however, the kids played out in the yard while she sat on the sofa with me and just kinda, ummm..., er..., um..., well, just talked and acted normal.

 

At one point, we had a stupid pretend fight with some of the kids' jar of fake slime - she was throwing it at me, I threw some back at her, and there was a bit of tickling, etc, etc, etc. Just the kind of silly stuff we'd have done at any point during our relationship. She started this, btw.

 

She also tried IMing me on msn messenger last night as I was doing a bit of work. I didn't reply to her, and tonight, she asked me why I didn't reply. I just said that I was busy, and she seemed to be a bit PO'd that I didn't reply.

 

She's also started talking almost as if I have sole responsibility for the kids, too, which sounds weirder than you can imagine. Like, tonight, the kids were playing in the yard, and she said something like "you need to come in soon - but check with daddy first", or something like that. It's like she's undermining her own responsibility. And there were a couple other similar things she said, too, which stuck right out to me.

 

I also mentioned that I was going to bath the kids tonight, and asked her if she wanted to help me. She said something like she needs to get back to 'her place' before it gets 'too dangerous' (she takes public transport there and back, and I can imagine her nearest station being pretty intimidating at night).

 

Not sure whether that was an excuse for her not to have to deal with bathing the kids, or whether it is actually dangerous where she goes.

 

She also yawned a hell of a lot while she was here, and it's obvious that she's not sleeping much at all.

 

I don't know. She just seems all vulnerable again all of a sudden. I gave her a hug as she was leaving, and she held on to me really tight.

 

It's absolutely killing me to see her walk away from me and the kids each night she comes here, when I can sense that she's not especially happy doing what she's doing.

 

I think a Plan B type letter will make her feel even worse - but then maybe that's just what I need.

 

God, I still love spending time with her - and if she was coming solely to see the kids, she'd spend time with them, rather than sitting with me, wouldn't she? Sorry, there I go again...

 

[Trimmer]

Has she been dismissive, hostile, etc very much lately? Like didn't she say some pretty unkind things to you at one point? Or is she mostly conciliatory, or at least neutral? Is it possible that maybe she's not screwing with your mind, but starting to level out? And she's certainly gotten herself into a situation where it will be hard for her to save face, but are her actions still all over the place, or basically levelling out?

 

Also, this comment: "you need to come in soon - but check with daddy first", may be a way of her respecting "your" territory. My STBXW and I have a very respectful and supportive relationship as co-parents, and one of our refrains is "at mom's house mom makes the rules, and at dad's house dad makes the rules." Not that we are wildly divergent in our styles or rules or anything, but the point is, they are secure in knowing who is in charge at either place, and also in knowing that the two of us (parents) are in supportive agreement on that issue. So if I happen to be visiting her house while she has the kids, I try to be very respectful, and if the kids ask me "can we do something", I will often say something very much like what your wife said, and defer to the head of the household, my STBXW, while I am a visitor. I do this out of respect for her as a co-parent, and I feel respected in my position as a co-parent when she does it while on "my turf."

 

Maybe there are more subtle things going on there, but when I read her quote, I thought, yeah, I say that kind of thing, too...

[uksurfer]

Has she been dismissive, hostile, etc very much lately?

 

Not at all. Not once. I'm not sure whether she's being neutral or conciliatory, to be honest. If it was neutral, I wouldn't expect the fun, flirty behaviour towards me. I'd expect her to be much more matter-of-fact about stuff. Actually, she's making more moves to contact me than I am of her. And when she's here at the house, things are OK between us. The only problem is that before she comes over, I feel super anxious in that I know I'm going to have to watch her walk away from me and the kids again later that night.

 

I'm not sure how many more times I can handle it.

 

More than anything else, the advice I've had is to back off, and give her space. And that's what I'm doing. But it's tres difficile when she's being like she is.

 

Also, this comment: "you need to come in soon - but check with daddy first", may be a way of her respecting "your" territory. Maybe there are more subtle things going on there, but when I read her quote, I thought, yeah, I say that kind of thing, too...

 

Fair point. I didn't think of that - this is all brand new, unchartered ground for me.

[uksurfer]

But when you're ready to STOP meeting your WW's needs and create a vacuum effect, it's probably better to Plan B.

 

LJ, you want to critique my plan B letter for me?

 

Anyone else?

 

I'm not going to post it in the forum, but IM's to the usual address if you want to check it out...

[Ladyjane14]

LJ, you want to critique my plan B letter for me?

 

Anyone else?

 

I'm not going to post it in the forum, but IM's to the usual address if you want to check it out...

 

 

I'd love to, but I don't IM or email with any but family members as a general rule. That's just my policy since the BIG TROUBLE a couple of years ago in my own marriage.

 

Can you clean it up enough to post it? And how are you feeling about Plan B? You actually lose ground if you're not prepared to stick with it, so once you commit yourself to it....you've got to be serious about your boundaries.

[uksurfer]

I'd love to, but I don't IM or email with any but family members as a general rule. That's just my policy since the BIG TROUBLE a couple of years ago in my own marriage.

 

Very sensible. There's a certain person I know whose marriage would be a whole lot better off if they'd stuck to a rule like that.

 

I totally understand.

 

And how are you feeling about Plan B?

 

Not sure now, to be honest. I was gung ho about it this morning, I cried hard when I wrote the letter this afternoon, and I've been having horrible second thoughts the last couple hours. In fact, I've actually just spent the last couple hours at the beach with the kids after school. The sun's out, the sky's blue, the weather's great, the kids were laughing, I made a picnic, we played in the sand, we had fun, I got a tan. Only one thing missing, though.

 

Guess what that was. (Or rather, who.)

 

If she'd been there, that would have been the most perfect couple of hours in a long, long time.

 

Not that she'd have really wanted to be there, though. Or, at least that's what I've been telling myself.

 

I think I'll stay Plan A for little while longer. Maybe. Right now, I'm not sure I could stand the fallout of that letter. I'm just too exhausted. Mentally drained. And I really don't want to confuse the kids any more, either. Like by having to pass them between us without us speaking to one another, or via a friend. That can't be good for them. I did, however, ask her for her house keys back last night, and she said "what, so I have to knock at the door now?" Ummm, yeah. That's what happens when you move out of a house and want to get back in later.

Man, maybe I just need to get me some guts.

 

*Sigh*.

 

**********

Just as an aside, (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been here), but one of the hardest things about being left with two young kids is that there's no-one I can have a bloody grown-up conversation with - especially during the evenings. Yeah, the phone helps, but I'm a talker. I need to talk to people face to face.

 

Like, every night.

 

And even though she was buried in her laptop most of the time, I could still manage to squeeze a few minutes of conversation out of her.

 

Gah.

[Ladyjane14]

I think I'll stay Plan A for little while longer. Maybe. Right now, I'm not sure I could stand the fallout of that letter. I'm just too exhausted. Mentally drained. And I really don't want to confuse the kids any more, either. Like by having to pass them between us without us speaking to one another, or via a friend. That can't be good for them. I did, however, ask her for her house keys back last night, and she said "what, so I have to knock at the door now?" Ummm, yeah. That's what happens when you move out of a house and want to get back in later.

Man, maybe I just need to get me some guts.

 

I think you're right. You know, you can always start incorporating more boundaries. You did a fine job on getting your house keys. It's simple as that, really. Eat a bear one bite at a time, right?

[dgiirl]

lol my dad solved the key issue by changing all the locks in my house lol It was either that, or he was moving in

 

As for the loneliness of not having anyone to talk to, everyone goes through that. In fact, I'm slightly envious of those with kids because they had something to occupy their minds with, and atleast have KIDS to talk to. Being completely alone in a huge house can be pretty emotionally straining. You're doing well uk! It's hard, but you seem to be doing well.

[uksurfer]

I think you're right. You know, you can always start incorporating more boundaries.

 

Yeah, I may still send a letter, but it will be a toned down version of a plan B letter. I'll include all the love stuff, but I'll also tell her that if she wants to see the kids, it's not acceptable for her to just come round here and talk and joke with me while they play outside or in another room. She actually needs to take responsibility for her own children and do something with them - and not here in the house, either.

 

She's the one who moved out, so technically, it's not her house anymore, therefore, she needs to spend her leisure time (including any time she wants to spend with the kids) elsewhere.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

[uksurfer]

In fact, I'm slightly envious of those with kids because they had something to occupy their minds with, and atleast have KIDS to talk to.

 

But there's only a limited number of conversations you can have about Power Rangers and My Little Pony, and why we shouldn't crayon on the walls, the TV, the doors, the windows, my laptop.

 

Then they're in bed by 7.30pm anyway, which is just when I'm starting to kick in.

 

I'm dreading my next phone bill.

[Gunny376]

I'll also tell her that if she wants to see the kids, it's not acceptable for her to just come round here and talk and joke with me while they play outside or in another room. She actually needs to take responsibility for her own children and do something with them - and not here in the house, either.

 

She's the one who moved out, so technically, it's not her house anymore, therefore, she needs to spend her leisure time (including any time she wants to spend with the kids) elsewhere.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

 

"Reality ~ what a concept !"

 

Yes! more than reasonable ~ its cold hard reality ~ otherwise none as "tha' real world"

[uksurfer]

Yes! more than reasonable ~ its cold hard reality

 

Haha. Yep. I walked straight into that one.

[Ladyjane14]

Yeah, I may still send a letter, but it will be a toned down version of a plan B letter. I'll include all the love stuff, but I'll also tell her that if she wants to see the kids, it's not acceptable for her to just come round here and talk and joke with me while they play outside or in another room. She actually needs to take responsibility for her own children and do something with them - and not here in the house, either.

 

She's the one who moved out, so technically, it's not her house anymore, therefore, she needs to spend her leisure time (including any time she wants to spend with the kids) elsewhere.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

 

 

Sure it does. Just make sure that whatever you commit to writing doesn't come back to bite you in the butt someday. In other words.... never give her any evidence to use in court. Sometimes, you might get down on yourself and wonder if you did a good enough job as a husband. If that ever happens.... don't put it in writing, that's all I'm saying. She's not on your list of trustables right now.

 

I'm going to be scarce around here for the next couple of months. I've got a HUGE list of things to do this summer, so I'm putting up my 'GONE FISHIN' avatar and getting out of here for awhile.

 

I wish you and all these other guys good luck in your situations. I think you'll all do alright though.

[DesperateDad]

Bye LJ and thanks for all the great advice! Have a great summer!

[uksurfer]

Sure it does. Just make sure that whatever you commit to writing doesn't come back to bite you in the butt someday. In other words.... never give her any evidence to use in court. Sometimes, you might get down on yourself and wonder if you did a good enough job as a husband. If that ever happens.... don't put it in writing, that's all I'm saying. She's not on your list of trustables right now.

 

I'm going to be scarce around here for the next couple of months. I've got a HUGE list of things to do this summer, so I'm putting up my 'GONE FISHIN' avatar and getting out of here for awhile.

 

I wish you and all these other guys good luck in your situations. I think you'll all do alright though.

 

Yeah, thanks LJ. Great advice there, as usual!

 

Have a good one!!

[Ladyjane14]

You too, DD.

And I'm catching me a bass this year too!

[DesperateDad]

"I caught you this delicious bass..."

[Ladyjane14]

"I caught you this delicious bass..."

 

 

:lmao: Napoleon Dynamite, right?

 

Thanks for the good wishes UK, and for the giggle DD. Give my regards to Canuck. I've kind of made a mental trio of the three of you. Your situations are similar, true. But I think I associate the three of you together in a more positive way. 'Cause I think you're all going to land on your feet when it's all said and done.... just like dropping a cat.

 

Hmmmm..... catfish. I haven't caught one of those in a long time either!

[dgiirl]

I'm going to miss you LJ!! Come back when you can because your advice is godsend!

[uksurfer]

Thread hijack! Thread hijack!

 

Well, after today's events, not even Plan B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M or N can save me now.

 

She took my 'reality' idea pretty damned badly, and I think it's now escalated into some kind of national security alert. There are 8 police helicopters hovering above the house right now, and the SAS are preparing to storm the windows at the back of the house.

 

Whoops.

 

Like I said, bring on the girls.

[dgiirl]

:bunny: here's one :bunny:

[uksurfer]

:bunny: here's one :bunny:

 

Woooo! Is our date back on then?

[dgiirl]

it was never off!!

[uksurfer]

it was never off!!

 

Heh. Your country, or mine?