movinon05 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 MO, Now THAT is incredible!!! Disagreeing with WA???? Huh??? What is the world coming to???? :lmao: I know, I know!! Boggles my mind! Scary!
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 Good point, Movinon.... I just know that I would want to know more specific details.... then probably go back into NC if I was at least satisfied with the more specific details. However, I do understand that this continued contact from Sami could lead to an e-mail frenzy (yep, been there, done that...). I was just thinking that his response was too vague for her to really assess his heart and motivations. Which, to me, is still a form of "not knowing..." I guess I am hoping for some resolution to this for her. Limbo sucks!
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I know, I know!! Boggles my mind! Scary! Yes, I certainly have to start redefining everything that I thought I knew... Sami, are you still there? What are your thoughts?
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Keep coming with the ideas! I want to go back to NC after replying to him. There are a couple of things I need to tell him (like my phone number and email are changing soon!) and I also want to ask him if he'll email me when he gets the result of his test because I've been so worried about that. There might be other things you can come up with that I need to say, just so I can go back to NC for as long as it takes. Apart from that, I don't think I want to know about progress he has or hasn't made or any plans he has. In all honestly, I do know him quite well and I don't think he'll have done a thing at this point, and he won't have a plan. I don't know that there's any point in my giving him timelines, or expecting any... because it's something he has to do for himself, in his own time, for his own future. And, I've already ended the A and gone NC, so there's nothing else I can do, however long he takes..? Or do you mean that I should say 'you have another month or I'll delete you from my email, block your number, etc.'? I'm not really a believer in deadlines, but maybe that would work for him..? I just really needed to know that he still wants to leave his W and be with me, and that he's ok. Are there other ways I could be dealing with this..? Any ideas?
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I'm a little ticked at him as he could have written a little more. Is that all he said? Just that? lol... yes, just that. He's never been very wordy in emails... I think part of the reason for the short response will have been his not wanting to break the NC too much. I wrote to him "I just need to know a, b, c," and he's very respectful of not upsetting me or breaking NC, so he just answered yes to all of them and said he wasn't getting very far. That's all. I think if he'd started explaining and making excuses I'd have been upset with him.
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 For fear of being disagreed with... I don't really believe in deadlines for these ambivalent MM. I know that I don't like to feel pressured and I am sure that is a source of contention with certain types of MM. Not all. But some. If you are satisfied with what info you got from him, I wouldn't ask any more questions, then. I think it is fine that you are giving him your new phone number and e-mail, but I would NOT get sappy or lovey dovey with him. Just concise and to the point. He NEEDS to wonder how you have been doing. He doesn't need to know the struggles that you have endured with this NC. He needs to wonder what YOU are doing. Just my two cents worth... And yes, I would institute NC immediately after this final e-mail.
movinon05 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Keep coming with the ideas! I want to go back to NC after replying to him. There are a couple of things I need to tell him (like my phone number and email are changing soon!) and I also want to ask him if he'll email me when he gets the result of his test because I've been so worried about that. There might be other things you can come up with that I need to say, just so I can go back to NC for as long as it takes. Apart from that, I don't think I want to know about progress he has or hasn't made or any plans he has. In all honestly, I do know him quite well and I don't think he'll have done a thing at this point, and he won't have a plan. I don't know that there's any point in my giving him timelines, or expecting any... because it's something he has to do for himself, in his own time, for his own future. And, I've already ended the A and gone NC, so there's nothing else I can do, however long he takes..? Or do you mean that I should say 'you have another month or I'll delete you from my email, block your number, etc.'? I'm not really a believer in deadlines, but maybe that would work for him..? I just really needed to know that he still wants to leave his W and be with me, and that he's ok. Are there other ways I could be dealing with this..? Any ideas? You can tell him about your phone number and e-mail address. and yes, ask about results from the test. I agree regarding not asking about his progress as he was dipping his toes in the water before and it sounds like he's doing it again. Giving him a month is probably not going to work either. My hunch is what you've said before. He has to miss you. He has to want to be with you. And he won't have you unless he does something. But my thought is that you are going to be in more angst knowing he has probably not done much of anything and this could go on too long. In my opinion, he should have made some kind of progress by now and he obviously hasn't.
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I was just thinking that his response was too vague for her to really assess his heart and motivations. Which, to me, is still a form of "not knowing..." I guess I am hoping for some resolution to this for her. Limbo sucks! You're right, I don't know whether or not he thinks he can do it. And I don't know whether NC is in any way getting him closer to leaving. Maybe I should ask those questions?
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Keep coming with the ideas! I want to go back to NC after replying to him. There are a couple of things I need to tell him (like my phone number and email are changing soon!) and I also want to ask him if he'll email me when he gets the result of his test because I've been so worried about that. There might be other things you can come up with that I need to say, just so I can go back to NC for as long as it takes. Apart from that, I don't think I want to know about progress he has or hasn't made or any plans he has. In all honestly, I do know him quite well and I don't think he'll have done a thing at this point, and he won't have a plan. I don't know that there's any point in my giving him timelines, or expecting any... because it's something he has to do for himself, in his own time, for his own future. And, I've already ended the A and gone NC, so there's nothing else I can do, however long he takes..? Or do you mean that I should say 'you have another month or I'll delete you from my email, block your number, etc.'? I'm not really a believer in deadlines, but maybe that would work for him..? I just really needed to know that he still wants to leave his W and be with me, and that he's ok. Are there other ways I could be dealing with this..? Any ideas? I am just worried that this will drag out indefinitively with you hovering in limbo for months and months..... (Believe me, I have been there - AM there!!- myself!) I mean if you go NC now for 2 months, for instance, without any news, will you check in again for an "up date", then go NC again for perhaps 3 months and then check in etc etc... How long are you able to do that? I know that I would go nuts in a very short space of time, because I h-a-t-e uncertainty. Yes, a deadline/ultimatum is a possibility, but it is quite drastic and you would really have to be prepared to lose him forever. (This approach suits me, but it is not everyone's cup of tea!!!!) I am racking my peasized brain for an other alternative to make sure that it doesn't drift forever. But then again, perhaps the drifting would (if nothing comes out of it in the end) allow you so slowly get over him without the "guilliotine effect" of a dead line? Again, no rhyme or reason, just throwing out thoughts!
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 But my thought is that you are going to be in more angst knowing he has probably not done much of anything and this could go on too long. In my opinion, he should have made some kind of progress by now and he obviously hasn't. Ack, I know him... I wasn't in any way expecting that he'd have done anything by now. Quite a large part of me thinks he won't ever do it. I just needed to know that he hadn't changed his mind... because if he had, then I could have started getting over him. I need to know that he still wants to be with me, because if he does, then there's hope.
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 For fear of being disagreed with... I don't really believe in deadlines for these ambivalent MM. I know that I don't like to feel pressured and I am sure that is a source of contention with certain types of MM. Not all. But some. WA, My world has come to an end... I am not sure that I can agree with the above!!! But in fairness to you, you do say that it might not apply to ALL types of MM..... In my case, the only thing that has worked is NC and a deadline. The NC has made MM miss me etc... and the deadline is obviously putting pressure on him but I need it for myself to make sure that it doesn't go on and on and on and on.... I'd hate to find myself having this same conversation in a year's time!!! BUT I think the difference between myself and perhaps other people is that I am really prepared to lose him. My worst nightmare is that this goes on for another 6 months, 12 months, 18 months... And it could because my MM is Mr Ditherer Supreme! I do acknowledge that I am still ONLY on a promise, and that he could still end up staying at home, but at least then I know and that will be the end for us. THAT is my only agenda. It is harsh and drastic but the only thing that works for me. But, as I have already said, it is not everyone's cup of tea!
RealityCheck Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 well good morning yourself, sunshine! I have to tell you my views on marriage have kind of changed over the past few years and what I have experienced. If I was to be with exMM, it would definitely have to be marriage! When my exBF and I talked about the possibilities, it was very laid back and we were comfortable with the idea should it come to that point, but I always had it in the back of my mind that I'd probably live with him first before I made that jump. (It was just my meandering thoughts). For me, that is a big change given the way I was raised! I guess its just modern days, modern times. My thoughts now? Hmmm. Having lived alone since 1999, I have become very independent and really enjoyed being able to do what I want, when I want. Its very liberating. Having said that, I do want a committed relationship. And it will depend on the person I have that with. I really don't want to live alone for the rest of my life and have a committed partner in their own home and living separately as you do. I want to be able to curl up at night with him, and wake up comfortably snuggled in the morning with him. Sharing dinner and our day together. I do want a traditional life. My kids are not going to be with me much longer and so I look at my future a lot and try to picture it with a guy who wants to come home to my after work. I can probably deal with living with him, but my comfort level with that kind of situation would have to be examined based on that relationship. My older sister is going to be looking at the empty nest syndrome this Fall when her third child goes away to college. And I'm very scared for her. She's completely dedicated and often over the top caring for them. (Hence, they all want to go away to college!) lol! Am I making any sense? Starting to get off the subject? Just thinking out loud. I'm not so worried about the "thing to do" in society anymore. Times are changing and so are people's minds. I just don't want to be alone. If that means a committed relationship without marriage and we are both on the same page, then I can live with that. Yes, you have made perfect sense! I'm still not wanting the "live-in" relationship, but perhaps because I am still carrying emotional baggage from my marriage. Yet, honestly MO... I have always had a hard time waking up to the same face morning, noon and night. Maybe I am one of those people who need to be on my own. When I think of retirement, I think of boundless opportunities and things I could be doing that would fill the void. I am sure I will have days where I long to be with someone but for the most part, I feel my space will out weigh those times. Who knows, I may have a change of heart, but for today and for all the yesterdays I feel content on my own.
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Ack, I know him... I wasn't in any way expecting that he'd have done anything by now. Quite a large part of me thinks he won't ever do it. I just needed to know that he hadn't changed his mind... because if he had, then I could have started getting over him. I need to know that he still wants to be with me, because if he does, then there's hope. I am just worried about YOU. About how YOU would cope if this goes on for another 6 months for example. It is still quite vague, isn't it? Sorry if I have missed anything while typing my other posts, but have you decided what to do with the questions you had?
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Everyone... thanks for the thoughts... please keep them coming, because I want to get this right! I am just worried that this will drag out indefinitively with you hovering in limbo for months and months..... (Believe me, I have been there - AM there!!- myself!) I mean if you go NC now for 2 months, for instance, without any news, will you check in again for an "up date", then go NC again for perhaps 3 months and then check in etc etc... How long are you able to do that? I know that I would go nuts in a very short space of time, because I h-a-t-e uncertainty. I'm hoping I won't have to check again, but when I think about it, I would want to know if he changes his mind. Then I think... hmm... maybe I should ask him to let me know if he changes his mind, and then I think no, that's madness! He'd never tell me.... and.... I don't think he'll ever change his mind. If that makes any sense. I don't know of a way to not let this drift... it probably will... for years... I can't see any other way...
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 Oh, I agree with what you are doing, Jessie. In MY situation, my MM would have run the other way with a deadline. Like I said...I think it works for some and not others. The MM's personality has alot to do with this type of decision. And MY personality is such that I would not want someone to place constraints on me, but your situation is different than mine. And, I agree with you on the NC. However, I think these MM need to feel that they are LOSING you with the continued NC. They need to REALIZE that you are going on with your life happily without them and that you are DONE with this nonsense. That, I think, would scare the s*** out of them more than a deadline IMHO. It is a delicate situation, to be sure.... However, I do know that everyone thinks differently on this NC business. However, we all agree that we do NOT want to be in the affairs any longer. And, yes, I think that everyone who institutes NC must be prepared to lose the MM. It is a risk, but I think it is a win/win situation for the OW.
movinon05 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Ack, I know him... I wasn't in any way expecting that he'd have done anything by now. Quite a large part of me thinks he won't ever do it. I just needed to know that he hadn't changed his mind... because if he had, then I could have started getting over him. I need to know that he still wants to be with me, because if he does, then there's hope. I understand, really I do. Look, I'm gonna flash back to my old situation. Sami - he kept me hanging on for 7 years. Sticking his toe in and out. Then again, I was pretty much always there, giving him what he needed. I didn't know about this NC thing or that I was actually doing it when I was. Its all pretty clearer to me now that I have been on this board. So you got your answer. He still wants this. I wouldn't ask for more information. I would give him the info you want to give him, ask about his health, and go back to NC. While in that NC, only you are going to know how much time you can handle or how patient you can be. You don't have to decide this minute. You know very well emotions change from day to day. You're not going to make up your mind to stick with a finite decision today as to what you can and can't handle.
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I am just worried about YOU. About how YOU would cope if this goes on for another 6 months for example. It is still quite vague, isn't it? Sorry if I have missed anything while typing my other posts, but have you decided what to do with the questions you had? I'm inclined to agree with this... and even with your drastic deadline idea. My MM is a complete ditherer too, as you can see. I just don't know if I could give him a deadline... I don't know if I could stick to it. But then... as you say... the alternative is the hell of NC and not knowing forever and ever and ever.
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 Now, in my situation....I was more than prepared to lose my xMM. And, with this month of NC, I have realized that he has lost ME.
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 I'm inclined to agree with this... and even with your drastic deadline idea. My MM is a complete ditherer too, as you can see. I just don't know if I could give him a deadline... I don't know if I could stick to it. But then... as you say... the alternative is the hell of NC and not knowing forever and ever and ever. That damned limbo. Okay...my two cents worth... I would tell him your new info and then tell him to come find you when he is free. Simple as that. And start NC immediately and indefinitely. He needs to realize that he is losing you for good. And, Sami, I would start moving on with your life today. Without him. What choice do you have, really?
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Oh, I agree with what you are doing, Jessie. In MY situation, my MM would have run the other way with a deadline. Like I said...I think it works for some and not others. The MM's personality has alot to do with this type of decision. And MY personality is such that I would not want someone to place constraints on me, but your situation is different than mine. And, I agree with you on the NC. However, I think these MM need to feel that they are LOSING you with the continued NC. They need to REALIZE that you are going on with your life happily without them and that you are DONE with this nonsense. That, I think, would scare the s*** out of them more than a deadline IMHO. However, I do know that everyone thinks differently on this NC business. However, we all agree that we do NOT want to be in the affairs any longer. And, yes, I think that everyone who institutes NC must be prepared to lose the MM. It is a risk, but I think it is a win/win situation for the OW. WA, I think that the deadline is more for my benefit than anything else! I am simply not prepared to waste any more of my life on this, if it is not happening. I also think that the 2 1/2 years that MM has had to think about it is enough and if it doesn't happen now, it will never happen, and I will NOT be part of this anymore. Life is too short!!! So I need the deadline more than he does... As for some MM buckling under pressure, my MM would say that he does that too. When he has said that, I have said "Fair enough, then. Bye bye!" Then slowly but surely he has had to THINK... and then make a DECISION.... and now he just has to DO it! I don't think I can be more fair to him OR myself. He can decide exactly what to do (let's face it, he is no good to me unless he WANTS to be with me!) but if it ain't happening, then I don't think it is my civic duty to stay the OW when I could have a great life away from him! I also do agree that I would not like to have "undue" pressure on me, BUT I do think that I would "cut to the chase" a lot faster than MM and come to a decision.... In fact, I think any pressure would be unnecessary!
Sami_D Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I would tell him your new info and then tell him to come find you when he is free. Simple as that. And start NC immediately and indefinitely. He needs to realize that he is losing you for good. You're right. I think this is what I'm going to do, but I'll have a chat to my friend about it later, and then sleep on it, and then read this thread again. Then I'll reply to him tomorrow. Thanks all... and please write more if you think of anything else... I'm still pretty much thinking it through.
movinon05 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 Now, in my situation....I was more than prepared to lose my xMM. And, with this month of NC, I have realized that he has lost ME. Well I have a feeling that if Sami's MM doesn't do something soon, she's going to come to this realization. And Sami, he may very well lose you if he doesn't start doing something soon. Unfortunately, you will probably come to the realization that he is just not moving anywhere with anything. I'm not saying give up on him yet. I think you just have to keep it short and simple, step back and reassess as you go through this. You don't have to make a decision today!!
Author Walking away Posted May 28, 2006 Author Posted May 28, 2006 Oh, I think in your situation, you are doing exactly what you should be doing. In mine, it was totally different. I am right there with you, sister!
Jessie61 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 I understand, really I do. Look, I'm gonna flash back to my old situation. Sami - he kept me hanging on for 7 years. Sticking his toe in and out. Then again, I was pretty much always there, giving him what he needed. I didn't know about this NC thing or that I was actually doing it when I was. Its all pretty clearer to me now that I have been on this board. So you got your answer. He still wants this. I wouldn't ask for more information. I would give him the info you want to give him, ask about his health, and go back to NC. While in that NC, only you are going to know how much time you can handle or how patient you can be. You don't have to decide this minute. You know very well emotions change from day to day. You're not going to make up your mind to stick with a finite decision today as to what you can and can't handle. MO, you have raised some very interesting points... And Sami, no you don't have to decide here and now what you are going to do. These things take some serious thinking and deliberation. You need to KNOW that you are doing the right thing, what ever that "right thing" happens to be!
movinon05 Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 That damned limbo. I would tell him your new info and then tell him to come find you when he is free. Simple as that. And start NC immediately and indefinitely. He needs to realize that he is losing you for good. And, Sami, I would start moving on with your life today. Without him. What choice do you have, really? Hey WA!!!! I think this is the most excellent response so far from all of us!! We've all been kind of skirting around, throwing out ideas, etc. which I think is good, but for now, I think you've hit the nail on the head. At least, I am in complete agreement. I bow to your wisdom!!
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