Staying together for the kids...

[Trimmer]

1Gravity -

 

Interesting thread. I got the "Imperfect Harmony" book and read some of it, back when I was grasping for any hope in my own marriage. In my case, it was also borne out of a dread of the effect on the kids, but as time went on, I also realized that I was grasping at any last ditch hope that maybe we could stay together, and possibly even repair things in the future - a fear of accepting that we were really over and a way of holding onto whatever connection - however pathological - I still could. (Not saying that's your situation; just relating my own realization...)

 

I give you more credit for thoughtfulness than OzGirl seems to, and I especially don't get what she thinks these "massive benefits" are that will accrue from staying together; massive benefits, are you kidding? And she seems to dismissively minimize the influence of early development on the ultimate makeup of a person, which I don't accept. Indeed, I fully agree that once they become teens and beyond, the family has a diminishing (and ultimately vanishing) role in immediate influence, but you misinterpret that phenomenon if you disregard that the person that you become, developmentally, is built on the foundation that is laid in the earlier years - that foundation doesn't just disappear when you become a teenager; as a matter of fact, it guides the nature of the independence/rebellion you ultimately seek.

 

Assuming your kids possible future behaviour is merely a consequence of your actions is grossly overestimating the ultimate percentage of influence you will have had on their decision making as adults, and grossly underestimating how much responsbility they will have, at that point, for themselves.

 

So why are you so upset that they would decide to stay together "for the kids", if it won't really matter once the kids are adults? Why so derisive? You seem to be arguing that they are making a bad decision, but then go on to explain how it's basically OK to split up because parents don't really have that much influence on kids once they reach their teenage/young adult years....

 

I will say again: parents' immediate day-to-day influence on their kids during their teenage and young adult years is certainly greatly diminished, but the kind of person the young adult is, at his or her core, is significantly influenced by parents and the family environment in the early developmental years.

 

I do believe that kids are resilient and adaptable, but I resent when adults toss that comment off as if therefore, divorce is no big deal and that the early family environment has little or no bearing on their outcome as mature adults. I believe that childrens' resilience is a resource for their use as they develop, and that if we make them squander that resource inappropriately - ducking flying dishes, either figuratively or literally, having to juggle their loyalties as their parents fight either outright or through more insidious emotional struggles - then we impede their healthy development. I believe their resilience is not a reserve to be consumed to make us adults feel better about divorce, but a resource that should be recognized and protected, especially by those who divorce.

 

In the end, I bet if you look at 3000 randomly selected COD's, you'll find a pretty large proportion of them will come from situations where the parents don't give as much careful thought to their kid's mental health, emotional stability, and development as you are doing. What I'm shooting for - since I don't have a choice at this point - is to try to be sensitive to making sure that my kids don't have to waste too much of their developmental energy dealing with divorce issues like questioning being fully loved by both parents, feeling unsettled or "temporary" in one or both homes, avoiding loyalty issues like the parents "using" the kids against each other, etc... If we can avoid those, then they can use their resilience and adaptability for normal kid stuff, like they should.

 

So 1G, I'm not really coming down on one side or the other. I hate what I'm doing to my kids by splitting up, but I have been given no other choice - I was rebuked at every effort to reconcile and make things work - so I am going to do my best to do right by my kids developmentally. But having accepted that we are splitting up, and fully engaged myself in the task of doing the best job I can as a parent under these conditions, I don't know if I would go back to "staying together for the kids", if I were given the choice.

 

May I ask, how open do you anticipate being with your kids about your situation? I've tried to be as open as possible with my kids about the reality and logistics of what is happening, and give them as much control and ownership of the situation as is age-appropriate, but without delving into the "whys", or issues that would stir any kind of loyalty confusion ("well, mommy left daddy because she has apparently preferred another man's attention for the last 2 years...") Again, not taking you to task here, but just interested - what, if anything, will you share with your kids about your situation, or will you just keep up appearances until they are adults?

[JayKay]

My parents were terribly mis-matched and stayed together 'for us' for over 30 years.

 

We witnessed two very unhappy people who never shared deep conversation or much in the way of laughs or intimacy. They were always civil to each other (fights were rare, shouting very occasional), just not a very warm loving couple.

 

We all got out of the house as soon as we could. We felt the chill in the air when we were there. On occasion, I'd have to return home for a while, but I always felt so depressed and anxious in the house.

 

My siblings and i all struggled with relationships throughout our adolescent, teen and adult years. One sister still dates extremely troubled and distant men....

 

We all abused substances at some point growing up.

 

Today we've all managed to get educations and good-paying jobs and three out of four of us are in stable relationships. It wasn't my parents staying married for so long that did that.

[1Gravity]

1Gravity, the children are important. I admire you for sticking with the marriage for the children.

 

I would like to say that 15 years gives you time to fix the marriage. If you read (or have read) my thread, you can see that fixing may payoff. I haven't read your total situation yet, but you can change your sitch.

 

I will make another post later when I read your background. I just so often see people say that children will get over it, but truly we as married adults owe it to our children to not only act like adults, but be an example of how we would want them to act like adults. Although there are definitely times that divorce is the only option, many people give up too easily.

 

Thank you for your encouragement. I think it's the right thing even though divorce seems attractive and easy most days.

[1Gravity]

1Gravity -

 

May I ask, how open do you anticipate being with your kids about your situation? I've tried to be as open as possible with my kids about the reality and logistics of what is happening, and give them as much control and ownership of the situation as is age-appropriate, but without delving into the "whys", or issues that would stir any kind of loyalty confusion ("well, mommy left daddy because she has apparently preferred another man's attention for the last 2 years...") Again, not taking you to task here, but just interested - what, if anything, will you share with your kids about your situation, or will you just keep up appearances until they are adults?

 

First let me thank you for your words. I'd PM you but I don't seem to have that priveledge here. Anyhow, I've addressed situations that have been questioned with my kids honestly. They ask some questions but they are generally in their own little worlds. We got seperate beds delivered this weekend and they both asked about it.

 

The teen knows that we've struggled with wifey getting up at 2:30 every a.m. when the 9 year old cries for her. And that I've complained to her for years about stopping this behaviour, so she knows I want to sleep, that's what I've told her. This is a pattern that has existed for 9 years. I've asked her repeatedly to stop, the therapist has told her it's very bad for the child and asked her to stop but...she persists.

 

As for the breakup...whenever that happens, I hope we can be honest and forthcoming. I hope it's several years away yet some days hope it's closer. Some days this gig is easy and some days it's pretty tough.

 

I have a feeling when it ends it will be ugly and expensive but ultimately worth it. I mean worth enduring it to keep the kids from bearing the brunt of it and worth it by ending it to officially mark it's finality.

 

Again, thanks for your support

 

1Gravity (gravity was taken)

[MusicWoman]

I know this comes a couple days late, but I just had to give my opinion on this. From early on it was obvious that my parents were not into each other that much any more. It got so bad as so the last 4 years of their marraige my father had moved into the basement. Although we would all kid about it...it took me 3 years of counseling to get over all of the messed up stuff with my parents. I think that my mother raised me very well....but the one thing I WISH and PRAYED that she had done sooner was end the marraige when it was over.

 

She thought she was doing the right thing, and she wasn't.

[MusicWoman]

I'm sorry one more thing about the separate beds issue.

 

Start noticing that your children won't want to bring friends over to the house anymore soon...because something 'wierd' is going on in their house.

 

Just...look for it

[1Gravity]

I'm sorry one more thing about the separate beds issue.

 

Start noticing that your children won't want to bring friends over to the house anymore soon...because something 'wierd' is going on in their house.

 

Just...look for it

 

Will do.

 

Thanks for your post.

[1Gravity]

I know this comes a couple days late, but I just had to give my opinion on this. From early on it was obvious that my parents were not into each other that much any more. It got so bad as so the last 4 years of their marraige my father had moved into the basement. Although we would all kid about it...it took me 3 years of counseling to get over all of the messed up stuff with my parents. I think that my mother raised me very well....but the one thing I WISH and PRAYED that she had done sooner was end the marraige when it was over.

 

She thought she was doing the right thing, and she wasn't.

 

We can say we did what was best or we should have done something differently but it's difficult to determine the actual outcome of the other decision. It's tough to research things like family environment and emotional impact on children because we can't control for multiple variables and we don't do research on kids of that type.

 

Who's to say what you might have been subjected to if your parents had been divorced? What about when/if your mom had brougt home a boyfriend? A husband? Then you're in a "step" situation and some are good and many are bad.

 

Maybe you got a crappy deal. It took you a few years to get over it or work through it. Maybe it will adversely affect your marriage. Who knows what it might have been like the other way.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Guest]

my parents divorced when i was 8 but they didn't separate until i was 13 and i do have a great stepfather but i will admit it was hard at the begining and it will be i tryed every trick in the book to get my parents back together and 8 years later i relize that i was better off now because i was living in a household of yelling and screeming and fighting all the time and all i got out of it was a very NEGATIVE attitute about life and thought that that was normal. the kids will see how much happyier ya'll are apart and they will understand why. good luck

[babygurl09]

my parents divorced when i was 8 but they didn't separate until i was 13 and i do have a great stepfather but i will admit it was hard at the begining and it will be i tryed every trick in the book to get my parents back together and 8 years later i relize that i was better off now because i was living in a household of yelling and screeming and fighting all the time and all i got out of it was a very NEGATIVE attitute about life and thought that that was normal. the kids will see how much happyier ya'll are apart and they will understand why. good luck

[1Gravity]

my parents divorced when i was 8 but they didn't separate until i was 13 and i do have a great stepfather but i will admit it was hard at the begining and it will be i tryed every trick in the book to get my parents back together and 8 years later i relize that i was better off now because i was living in a household of yelling and screeming and fighting all the time and all i got out of it was a very NEGATIVE attitute about life and thought that that was normal. the kids will see how much happyier ya'll are apart and they will understand why. good luck

 

The research doesn't support your claim about the kids being happier if/when the parents are happier. Generally, if the kids world is reasonably free from conflit (yours doesn't sound like it was), the kids move about mostly in their own little world.

 

High conflict is difficult. Even "Imperfect Harmony" suggests that high conflict marriages might not be in the best interest of the kids, much less the adults. For most kids divorce occurs as a sudden shock. Sure, they know their folks fight but they don't think divorce will happen to them. It takes them by surprise and they are (as you describe) powerless to stop it, try though they might.

[EndoftheRope]

Hi, Gravity, I am trying to order the book and amazon.com does not seem to have the 'add to cart' feature for that book today. Go figure. I've never had this problem at Amazon before, and a 20 minute phone conversation with someone with great but heavily accented English, while kids carried on behind me, resulted in finding out that she can see the add to cart button on her internet, but I can't see it on mine! I've commented that H and his family have me feeling like I'm in Wonderland, and this seems to confirm it. Maybe I can learn to like it here!

 

So... I was going to PM you and see how you're doing, how you're accomplishing this, if you have any advice from the book to pass on, but you don't seem to have PM privileges. I think mine kicked in recently, so maybe you need 50 posts to get it? Anyway, if you have pearls of wisdom to leave here from the book or your experience, I'd love to hear them.

[1Gravity]

No, I still don't have pm priveledges. Perhaps if you pm me I can reply. You can e-mail me at [email protected] and we can catch up that way. I'm happy to share my experiences with you. I'd send you the book but I gave it to a friend in a similar situation this week.

 

Best,

Gravity

[sairasworld2000]

I don't know about you, but I only have one life. And I choose to live a happy life with someone I am crazy about and who is crazy about me. You seem to want to throw away that opportunity, yes sacrifice your own life and happiness, because you think that that is required in order for your kids to have a happy and healthy life. You said:

 

" I like having unrestricted access to my kids, input as to where they spend their time and the other normal interactions that parents have. I've seen many families divided by divorce and then you have 1/2 the opportunity at best."

 

I find that very selfish. You, nor anyone else including all the therapists in the world, can forsee how your kids will turn out, regardless whether you stay in the marriage or leave. I do know that if I find happiness with another and my husband finds happiness with another, than our kids will have 2 loving and supportive families. Of course I may be wrong because I don't know you, but I think that you just don't have the courage to tell your wife that it is over. You probably have never lived on your own very long and perhaps you are scared. That is human nature; it is normal. You have nothing to be ashamed of. But for God sakes man, get it together before you throw the rest of the best years of your life away.

[1Gravity]

I don't know about you, but I only have one life. And I choose to live a happy life with someone I am crazy about and who is crazy about me. You seem to want to throw away that opportunity, yes sacrifice your own life and happiness, because you think that that is required in order for your kids to have a happy and healthy life. You said:

 

" I like having unrestricted access to my kids, input as to where they spend their time and the other normal interactions that parents have. I've seen many families divided by divorce and then you have 1/2 the opportunity at best."

 

I find that very selfish. You, nor anyone else including all the therapists in the world, can forsee how your kids will turn out, regardless whether you stay in the marriage or leave. I do know that if I find happiness with another and my husband finds happiness with another, than our kids will have 2 loving and supportive families. Of course I may be wrong because I don't know you, but I think that you just don't have the courage to tell your wife that it is over. You probably have never lived on your own very long and perhaps you are scared. That is human nature; it is normal. You have nothing to be ashamed of. But for God sakes man, get it together before you throw the rest of the best years of your life away.

 

Your assumptions are baseless. I was married at 26 and lived on my own successfully for several years. I'm capable of independent living and thought as well as the myriad of household chores that go into routine independent living. I'm not sure why you consider my decision "selfish"?? Whose interest should I be most looking out for? It seems that divorce is selfish, seeking to please only me, regardless of the consequences. I've got the testosterone required to man-up to my situation. Wifey and I have had the discussion of the inevitable divorce and we agreed to remain married.

 

How I invest the best years of my life is up to me and me alone. I'm not here seeking your validation, dear poster, simply seeking others who might be in the same situation. I've heard from quite a few already and hope that our situations can be improved.

 

Don't hate,

 

1gravity (gravity was taken)

[Guest]

If you get along and don't beat each other in front of the kids, you should stay together. Your kids' happiness is more important than yours. Set some ground rules to live by for the next 9 years and make it work. It wouldn't surprise me if, in 9 years, you decide to stay together anyway.

 

And it's "for all intents and purposes," not "for all intensive purposes." Just a pet peeve...

[1Gravity]

If you get along and don't beat each other in front of the kids, you should stay together. Your kids' happiness is more important than yours. Set some ground rules to live by for the next 9 years and make it work. It wouldn't surprise me if, in 9 years, you decide to stay together anyway.

 

And it's "for all intents and purposes," not "for all intensive purposes." Just a pet peeve...

 

Thanks for your correction. I consider myself a maven of the native tongue and didn't know that. I'm peeved by screwy cliche's also such as "my bad", "pushed down your throat", "easy come, easy went" and so on.

 

As for the relationship, yes, you are right, and the book "Imperfect harmony" does help a couple flesh out an agreement of sorts to limit the fueding. It also suggests that you refresh your expectations of marriage and move them to zero. Don't expect anything from your spouse, in my case that means sex, but do try to be happy in much of what you do. Get hobbies, have friends, be involved in community activities, join a support group, etc.

 

Again, thanks for your thoughtful comments,

 

1Gravity (Gravity was taken)

[Guest]

I think you fail to appreciate the Gravity of your situation. Nevertheless, keep reading those "self-help" books. I'm sure you'll eventually find one that will support whatever position you choose to take. Then your motives will be vindicated.

[1Gravity]

I think you fail to appreciate the Gravity of your situation. Nevertheless, keep reading those "self-help" books. I'm sure you'll eventually find one that will support whatever position you choose to take. Then your motives will be vindicated.

 

Motives for????? I've read more than 30 in the last 2 years. I'm not sure what you're intimating but I'm always open for feedback. Am I missing something obvious?

[Galaxy]

Ya, what a struggle. 15 years is a very long time indeed. One of the most compelling things I read is that when kids learn about their parents getting divorced, the stop experiencing life as a child.

 

Interesting stuff. I'd have to say it was true in my case. Parents divorced when I was 12 and it got pretty wild after they split. I don't want that for my kids. Of course, as with any marriage, either one can decide to quit at any time. You can always get a divorce.

 

Thanks for your reply,

 

1Gravity (gravity was taken)

 

Yeah, but you were approaching your teen years. With all those hormones pumping,chances are you would have gotten "wild" anyways.

[Galaxy]

I dont see how creating a warped sense of reality is good for the kids. Would you allow them to believe in santa clause till they are 30 too?

On paper, yeah maybe the choices look better. But truly, you need to read between the lines. Things that look more perfect are usually the more f***ed up situations. What goes on in the minds of kids and behind closed doors will never be fully discovered.

All they will learn how to do well is STICK together to a wife or husband in a meaningless and loveless relationship for SOMEONE else, regardless of their own happiness and end up wasting their life away like you are. It's nice to think of others, but not to the extent of hindering your own happiness.

Plus they learn how to HIDE their emotions and circumstances well (which they will learn well from you two), which is another reason they might APPEAR happier into adulthood.

If you want generation after generation of your family line to live a facade, then go ahead! Help yourself. But that will never equate happiness for them.

 

Do those statistics of divorce make a category for children with one parent absent and another category with both parents remaining integral in the child's life?

Sometimes after a divorce, one parent skips their duties and never sees their child often. Now THAT would be damaging.

If you maintain being a prominent figure in their lives, there shouldnt be much of a problem.

 

There are too many factors involved to just make the ridiculous statement your biased books are making. They come up with this to make money. Unfortunately you bought into it. You should read a book that unbiasely looks into both sides of the situation with studies on both sides.

Even Dr Phil, with all of his experience etc, knows that at a certain point sticking together in such dire situations is not good for ANYONE, even the kids.

 

How long do you plan on babying your kids? Because the way it's going, I wouldn't expect them to move out at 18 and you easily filing for divorce. They'll probably stick around for a while. Only until you are much older and it is too late will you realize what a mistake you have made. And then you will eventually take it out on your children; blaming them for your unhappiness. You will be known as the miserable old man nobody wants to be around. It happens all the time.

 

Lack of emotions and happiness cant be good for the health either. I'd like to know how the lifespan differs. No sex life, no love life, not even any kind of emotional bonding.. i wouldnt be surprised if you aged quicker. You want to feel dead? I guess that's your choice. Most people would prosper better in an ALIVE and VIBRANT relationship/life. And a happier dad and mom makes a BETTER mom and dad. But you do as you choose just because A BOOK tells you to. Afterall, a book of half-cocked and hollow "facts" takes precedence over common sense and the brain power you have to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

[1Gravity]

Yeah, but you were approaching your teen years. With all those hormones pumping,chances are you would have gotten "wild" anyways.

 

Perhaps you are right. I was 12 when it happened. My little brother was 8 and younger sister was 3 or 4. My brother reports the same sensation only magnified. He's still dealing with the effects. He's 38, never been married and has wondered about this whole phenom. Little sister been in and out of jail, addiction trouble, employement trouble, etc. At 33 it's still not clear if she's gonna make it. Oldest sister divorced 3 times.

 

I'm not arguing your point, just pointing out what happened to us.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

1gravity (gravity was taken)

[Trimmer]

1G:

 

How would you characterize (a) the level of involvement of each parent in you and your siblings' lives after your parents' divorce (b) the level of drama and conflict that you were exposed to and © any feelings of taking sides and/or deciding loyalties that you felt you were burdened with? I think these issues - more than the simple fact of a divorce - are likely to have more of an effect on the healthy development of children.

 

The assertion you read that children, once their parents divorce, "stop experiencing life as a child" is compelling in that it provides food for thought, but at once it attempts to be all-encompassing - encapsulating all of child development into a single simple sound-bite that asserts an abolute rule: "do A and B will happen" - and yet can't avoid presenting itself as an impossibly vague bumper-sticker slogan: what in the world does it mean to "stop experiencing life as a child?" The healthy development of a child into an adult is a wonderfully and painfully complex process, and just like our feelings, as human beings, are not turned all-on and all-off by simple switches, neither is the wholesale development of every child definitively altered in the same way by the start of every divorce process. It depends on so much more.

 

You want to stay together for the kids; it's natural to accept simplified platitudes that support that. Just don't think that the mere fact of staying together means your kids' development is guaranteed smooth as a result. You will have hard work to do from here on out, and I wish you good luck that you will do it right.

 

I can't stay together for my kids - it's out of my hands. It's natural for me to look to similar simplified platitudes that make me feel better: "kids are resilient", etc... And in the end, I don't think that the mere fact of my divorce means that my kids' development is guaranteed to fail as a result. I know that I have hard work to do from here on out, and I fully well intend to do it as "right" as a person with thoughtful, good intentions can.

 

Both of our kids - yours and mine - are going to grow up in situations where their parents don't want to be together. Yours will be spared the shock of the divorce until later, maybe that's better - I'm not going to knock it. But the thing that really matters is what kind of home will we each create for our children, day by day, week by week. How will we provide them with examples and learning opportunities of honesty, respect, solving problems, handling loss, interacting with people, giving and receiving affection?

 

I can't come down solidly on the "get a divorce and move on" side, any more than I can unwaveringly support the "stay together just for the kids" side. For me, the more important question in each case is, what kind of parents can we be, can we respect the developmental needs of our children, in whatever circumstance we move into going forward? And I think that if we can continue to honestly address those questions, day-by-day, week-by-week, year-by-year, we may just do alright.

[1Gravity]

Well written and thought out Trimmer. I would characterize the involvement of my parents from my childhood divorce as interesting. My dad wanted to see us but our mother told us all he was a bad man. "remember the beatings, remember all the harsh words?" Seems to have been the mantra from mother. Meanwhile, mom was brining home boyfriends that were into drugs and pornography and there always seemed to be a party in my house. That's what I grew up in.

 

I made many decisions on my way towards adulthood about things I would never subject my kids to. Most of them happened to me.

 

Your words about the platitudes and simplistic agreements with our strategys ring true. I know that the growth into adulthood is difficult and diverse and unique for each child. No "do A and B will happen" formula even though some seek it.

 

There are days when what I have volunteered for seem impossible and days when I don't want want to do it. Then I attend a graduation or me and the 9 year old spend a few hours walking in the woods looking for flowers and it seems to make sense again.

 

I'd like to say with confidence that what I've chosen is best. I can't. It's what I'm sticking with, however, until I cannot do it any longer or wifey cannot. That's the only commitment I can make right now. Perhaps things will be different later, who can say.

 

Thanks for your words Trimmer, I enjoy reading well written stuff regardless as to whether or not it supports my point or beliefs.

 

Best,

 

1gravity (gravity was taken)

 

 

1G:

 

How would you characterize (a) the level of involvement of each parent in you and your siblings' lives after your parents' divorce (b) the level of drama and conflict that you were exposed to and © any feelings of taking sides and/or deciding loyalties that you felt you were burdened with? I think these issues - more than the simple fact of a divorce - are likely to have more of an effect on the healthy development of children.

 

The assertion you read that children, once their parents divorce, "stop experiencing life as a child" is compelling in that it provides food for thought, but at once it attempts to be all-encompassing - encapsulating all of child development into a single simple sound-bite that asserts an abolute rule: "do A and B will happen" - and yet can't avoid presenting itself as an impossibly vague bumper-sticker slogan: what in the world does it mean to "stop experiencing life as a child?" The healthy development of a child into an adult is a wonderfully and painfully complex process, and just like our feelings, as human beings, are not turned all-on and all-off by simple switches, neither is the wholesale development of every child definitively altered in the same way by the start of every divorce process. It depends on so much more.

 

You want to stay together for the kids; it's natural to accept simplified platitudes that support that. Just don't think that the mere fact of staying together means your kids' development is guaranteed smooth as a result. You will have hard work to do from here on out, and I wish you good luck that you will do it right.

 

I can't stay together for my kids - it's out of my hands. It's natural for me to look to similar simplified platitudes that make me feel better: "kids are resilient", etc... And in the end, I don't think that the mere fact of my divorce means that my kids' development is guaranteed to fail as a result. I know that I have hard work to do from here on out, and I fully well intend to do it as "right" as a person with thoughtful, good intentions can.

 

Both of our kids - yours and mine - are going to grow up in situations where their parents don't want to be together. Yours will be spared the shock of the divorce until later, maybe that's better - I'm not going to knock it. But the thing that really matters is what kind of home will we each create for our children, day by day, week by week. How will we provide them with examples and learning opportunities of honesty, respect, solving problems, handling loss, interacting with people, giving and receiving affection?

 

I can't come down solidly on the "get a divorce and move on" side, any more than I can unwaveringly support the "stay together just for the kids" side. For me, the more important question in each case is, what kind of parents can we be, can we respect the developmental needs of our children, in whatever circumstance we move into going forward? And I think that if we can continue to honestly address those questions, day-by-day, week-by-week, year-by-year, we may just do alright.

[Gunny376]

We've been married 17 years. Most of the marriage we differed on money sex and childrearing. I'd also say a lack of general respect as well. We tried counseling for nearly 2 years which resulted in the counselor quitting US! The counselor indicated that she saw where we needed to go but didn't see us moving there.

 

Anyhow, we decided that the marriage was over but that we were concerned about the impact of divorce on the kids (read "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce.") and for all intensive purposes agreed to stay married for their sake. We have 14 and 9 year old daughters which means 3 years until the first leaves for college and many more years until the youngest is ready.

 

We have a very low conflict marriage, neither of us drinks or gambles or has vices that are noticeable to the kids. Another good read is "How to Stay Married for the Kids and Still Be Happy." It indicates that low conflict relationships work well but if you're yelling and screaming at each other or if there's violence, then you might as well end the marriage.

 

I might also add that we haven't had sex in 14 months. She has no desire for sex and hasn't really had any since the kids were born. Sex and money have always been a point of contention with us. I have wanted much more sex, and to have her more of a participant (she's totally passive) and she could go months/years without any.

 

The money issues have related to giving charitably and her control/contribution. We agreed that she would stay home with the kids until they were in school, they she would return to work. Well, the kids have both been back in school for over 5 years but she refuses to go back to work. When she teaches as a sub on occaisioin she spends her money however she sees fit. My money is "our" money but her money is "her" money.

 

Those are the issues that came out in counseling and have remained non-negotiable.

 

I'm posting here because I have seen the range of relationships but not "staying together for the sake of the kids".

 

Anyone else in this boat?

 

best,

 

1Gravity (Gravity was taken)

 

Try this

 

http://www.lightyourfire.com/

 

and

 

http://cheapskatemonthly.com/