Disappointed again........ :-(

[37andConfused]

Don't allow yourself to think that too much.

 

Your wife is who she is and yeah, she could put in more effort, try abit harder to put herself into conversations. Can I ask? Is she abit insecure or depressed? I find her answer of saying, "But I have nothing to say..." is strange.

 

I don't think she's insecure or depressed. She's from the rural midwest - where a lot of people are "comfortable with their silences". Again, she's not a bad person. She's just not doing much to keep things interesting. Put another way - she'd be happy with missionary every time. I need doggie style, her on top, reverse froggie, etc. All on the same night if possible

[quankanne]

My H will tell you he was utterly clueless. MC has worked well for us, but honestly, he had to have some personal therapy to get a handle on why he was refusing to even hear me. It was a mother thing. It was only when he saw that he was going to lose something he wanted if he didn't do something that he caught a clue and listened up. We began working our way through marriagebuilders.com together at weekly dinner out, taking the laptop with us, and that has helped tremendously. When he saw how different our satisfaction levels were on our emotional needs inventory, he was surprised.

 

in an old, old post someone wrote that when a woman decides to end a relationship, it's because she's done a lot of thinking and trying to make a go of it, and she finally gives in and says it's time to go, even though she's fully aware of what she's leaving behind. And when she breaks it off, the man is completely surprised because he thinks things are just ducky.

 

men are wired differently, and they don't consider things problematic because he's not examining or looking for ways to improve the relationship because he feels it's just fine the way it is. I believe puppy training was mentioned earlier? It's like that – you've got to condition them to a whole 'nother kind of awareness so that they understand things *aren't* ducky just because he's not personally having any problems.

 

as frustrated as you are, you're going to be fine. You need to make that next step and look into the marriage enrichening programs or finding a more binding solution than just freezing him out or sitting there steaming, because until he gets what you're feeling about your relationship, it's not going to improve any.

[a4a]

I'm also 37, have a nice body and consider myself a catch. My wife is a great lady, just not very creative.

 

Her gifts are very straighforward where I, on the other hand, go out of the way to do things creatively. Quick example - when we started dating, we'd been camping a few times. So for our first xmas, I give her a big ol' Coleman Lantern Box. She says 'oh a lantern - very nice". In the box, is a big teddy bear stuffed in. The bear is wearing a diamond necklace. Another time, she was in London for a business trip and I flew out there on the weekend to surprise her and took her to paris for dinner.

 

She generally prefers being quiet to making "sparkling" conversation, while I like to talk about a million things. But it gets old very fast when she doesn't reply to what i'm saying or make an effort to start some interesting conversation. When I ask her to make some small talk, she usually says "But I have nothing to say." etc.

 

All this is not to say that she's a bad person - that's just her personality. She's more the stoic, quiet type, while I'm the one who tries to keep things interesting.

 

I go through tough patches with this, but I compartmentalize and justify that she's still a good person. Maybe I can't get everything I want from one woman.

 

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have an affair with someone like you - someone who likes to always do little things to keep it interesting....who I can laugh with, play with, get kinky with, have romantic dinners and walks on the beach...

 

 

Where do you want to meet? I get no conversation of any type unless it is about him and building something out in the yard. I could have a conversation about tree frogs and have fun with it. Dud.... just a dud.

 

I love to have fun...... silly things.... like decorating a friends yard with those plastic pin wheel flowers when they leave for vacation.... just pointless silly things.

[a4a]

 

men are wired differently, and they don't consider things problematic because he's not examining or looking for ways to improve the relationship because he feels it's just fine the way it is. I believe puppy training was mentioned earlier? It's like that – you've got to condition them to a whole 'nother kind of awareness so that they understand things *aren't* ducky just because he's not personally having any problems.

 

as frustrated as you are, you're going to be fine. You need to make that next step and look into the marriage enrichening programs or finding a more binding solution than just freezing him out or sitting there steaming, because until he gets what you're feeling about your relationship, it's not going to improve any.

 

I would disagree. He needs to make the next step. NOT ME. If he does not get what I am feeling by now..... then he can just sit and wonder what he did..... all by himself.

 

He came home early, he is out playing with wood in the shop. He did pick up some requested cold medicine for me. Not a single word....

 

As for the 8 days of cold niceness... he just went on as normal. not even a question of why I "turned off".

 

I have been here before with another relationship, and that is why I promised my H I would say something instead of just packing up and leaving. Of course the other was not a M but just a LTR of about 4 yrs.

[a4a]

I have seriously entertained living apart from H and just using him for good sex and companionship. We'd probably get along better.

 

I have told my H this several times over the last few months...... I think that would be a perfect situation!

 

My Ex still calls me here from time to time.... we still own property together. Monday we have a meeting and some zoning meetings to attend. My H never says a word. I am starting to think because I have so much $ tied up in that project and he wants some? If the shoe were on the other foot I would say..... F- that money.....not worth it. I am really starting to wonder about his motives. I asked him what it is he thinks a M should provide: comfort and security were his first answers....... what happened to passion, heat, desire,.........??

 

Ever hear the Mary Chapin Carpenter song Passionate Kisses..... that is it to a T........ to a freakin T.

 

a4a- I want a camel!

[Guest]

Where do you want to meet?

 

 

New York, Chicago, LA, Tokyo, Paris, London. You name it. I travel often...

[37andConfused]

Where do you want to meet?

 

NY, LA, Chicago, Paris, Miami, Tokyo, you name it -

[whichwayisup]

I don't think she's insecure or depressed. She's from the rural midwest - where a lot of people are "comfortable with their silences". Again, she's not a bad person. She's just not doing much to keep things interesting. Put another way - she'd be happy with missionary every time. I need doggie style, her on top, reverse froggie, etc. All on the same night if possible

 

Unless me being Canadian here makes a difference, I don't know...But reverse Froggie?? (Oh I'm Canadian, not french Canadian just Fyi...hehe.) I've not heard that position, or maybe we just call it something different. (And you just gave me an idea for a good thread starter in the sex section, thanks!)

 

Why don't you tell her exactly that? You need more fun in bed, to try new things. Bring in some strawberries and whipped cream - Chocolate, icecubes, etc...I bet she'd love that if you did it to her. Atleast it could open the door and get her going abit??

[JamesM]

I would like to take a moment and be a devils advocate. What I am going to say will be different from what you have heard. By the way, if you want an affair, leave him first. It would not be fair to him. If your goal is to hurt him, then tell him you want an affair but will leave first.

 

What I hear from you (besides the anger) is that both of you have had many relationships. Neither of you have stayed committed. My suggestion is to do that now. He is not a jerk from what you have said. You seem to need much verification of your worth and affirmation of his love.

 

Why does he need to constantly show you his love? What is in your past that makes you need this? It sounds like you wanted to schedule him for times to show you love. It is his turn for a gourmet meal...he doesn't cook it properly...isn't the purpose to spend romantic time together? DO you show much criticism to his attempts at romance? Why not praise evry little bit he comes up with?

 

Let's try to go a step further....take the time to go into his world. Don't expect him to change...change yourself. Don't play games of manipulation. They provide short-term change, but eventually he will change back. Don't make this a relationship of "I wants" but of "I will give him what he wants." I hear you...you do much of the work around the house. There are ways to get him to do more without manipulation. My wife did it. I now do everything...of course, not always to her satisfaction, but neither did the housekeeper.

 

I hear alot of anger and bitterness from you. You seem to be unloved. I also seem to get that you want your needs fulfilled. What would happen if you went out of your way to do everything to fulfill his needs? Is this marriage worth it to you? If not, leave now. If it is, look to change it and you. Marriage is about committing to the other person's needs and fulfillment.

 

Please don't unleash your anger at me now. I just wanted to put up some different thoughts. These may bring some other ideas from other posters that may actually solve your probelm. If he posted, I am sure I would have words for him on how to change, but I would not tell him how to change you. SO, here I want to give you ideas on how to change you.

[Touche]

James, are you really Dr. Phil? I think you have many valid points. When my husband and I were married 7 years, we went through a little rough patch. We bought that Dr. Phil book (can't remember name now) and it helped us tremendously. And basically, it did talk about what you're suggesting. Change starts with ourselves first. NOT with the other person.

 

Could it be that right now he always things he has to be proving something to you? Maybe he's a little intimidated. Maybe he's waiting for things to be on HIS terms. I don't know without knowing you both. I'm just raising some questions that may be worth thinking about.

 

I still say that backing off for awhile would be good. And I mean longer than eight days. I don't think it's manipulation at all. Men often need time to digest things and internalize things we say to them. Often we don't give them the chance to do that.

 

Has he changed recently? Or is this been a slow, subtle change since you've been married? Or maybe he was always this way and you just didn't care as much?

 

All questions to think over. Also, you might try (if you haven't already) writing him a letter.

 

Mainly, you must do something different than what you've been doing. Sounds like he's shutdown in a way. You never said what his reaction was to your suggestion that he leave for awhile. I still think his reaction to that is important.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't know what might work for you, but I'll tell you what worked for me.

 

I dropped ALL my expectations. The only ones left are the deal-breakers.....biggies like fidelity and fiscal responsibility. There's nothing much left he can do wrong.

 

Whatever he brings me pleases me now because I don't expect it. And if he really spends a little time thinking something special up for me....I go nuts!

 

Meantime, I've poured on the attention. He gets a little hug or smooch whenever he crosses my path. I tell him how great he is on a daily basis. I spoil him with little treats. And I give him sex ANYTIME he wants it. Overall, he is a pampered man.

 

I've dropped all my controls. Unless he's crossing my boundaries, and these are limited to the "deal-breakers"....he's a grown man and can do whatever he wants. And I don't tell him what to do EVER.

 

It's been two years this coming spring since I made these changes...and he has blossomed into a loving, attentive husband who reciprocates ALL my efforts....which means I'm fairly spoiled and pampered these days too!

 

I guess there really does come a point at which you realize you're just butting your head up against the wall....doing the same old stuff and getting the same old results. It only took me TWENTY YEARS to get that realization!!! But what I fianlly had to accept is that I can't change anyone but me. So, that's what I did....I changed ME.

 

Like I said earlier, I don't know what will work for you because I don't know the character of your man. I've got a pretty good one though. He doesn't take advantage. He's not out running around, or drinking in the bars, or behaving in ways that are inappropriate for a married man.

 

I can't even imagine how bad that would backfire when dealing with the 'not-so-good-man'.

[Becoming]

Freezing my H out didn't work. I tried it for years, and he didn't even notice. Worked great for him: he'd finally gotten me to shut up was all he thought.

 

I'd like to think that LJ is right on the money. But I suspect it'll be harded for your H than with most. I basically got to the point where I was with my H for sex and childcare. I know it's awful. There just wasn't anything else besides friendship, which is nice. But I longed for passionate kisses, emotional intimacy. The minute I expected that from him, the minute I started castigating him for its lack. I just quit expecting and started marking time until the children left. I was polite and pretty non-emotional. It took probably 3 years of this before he finally got that I was just biding my time and preparing to leave, enjoying companionship and sex while it lasted, and making plans to live my own life. Establishing my own bank account made him take notice.

 

But it was up to him to make changes and want the intimacy that we now have. I wasn't too attractive to him as a person who was always being upset at his deficiencies.

 

Anyway, just to let you know I'm thinking of you tonight.

[Outcast]

I am beat and can't read it all, but if nobody has yet recommended it, fergawdsakes get and read the Five Love Languages. It doesn't work to insist that someone speak your Love Language when he has one of his own - and vice versa. And from page 1 at least, it sounds like you have a certain set of expectations which maybe it's time to revise. So he didn't get you the prescribed Valentine's treatment. The very fact you expect it and are mad if you don't get it might ruin it for him - what fun is it giving a gift because it's expected?

 

 

I see a lot of 'scorecard' stuff in your posts - "I give him everything" etc etc. Well are you sure? You give him what you THINK he wants just as he gives you what he THINKS is good (support, etc). Have you even discussed your needs?

 

Really, check out the sites which have been recommended. When all your focus in your relationship is about what you're not getting, relationships go straight to hell.

[Guest]

Hey,

 

I too experienced a really disppointing Valentines day. Been with my guy for almost a decade. No proposals..nothing.

 

He told me weeks in advance he didn't want to do anything for V day, so I got really upset and said we should since we haven't gone out to have a nice sit down dinner in a long time.

 

He still refuses... makes jokes out of it! which upsets me more. Come Feb 14. he calls me to tell me that he suddenly became sick and will leave work early to go home to nurse himself back to health??????

 

Okay so I know he's lying because I saw him that very morning...

He makes me meet him at his house. I find him sitting on his couch watching TV. No flowers nothing..

 

He hands me a card and 2 pieces of chocolate. I give him a bag of gifts (which is what I usually do) and not able to control my emotions anymore, I expressed my disappointment in the gifts.

 

I mean its obvious my bf no longer loves me. He did that to show his disdain to me. I really think I deserve so much more from him.

 

Just totally sad and don't think I want to be with such a man who doesn't put much thought into my feelings and who doesn't care less about what makes me happy.

 

I am thinking of ending this relationship real soon.

[Craig]

a4a, looks like a lively thread today!

 

What I get from the things you've said so far (and I could be wrong) is that your H has some "issues" that may have their genesis in what happened with and to his parents. I don't think this is really a "big" thing that can't be overcome with some work but I think it'll take some conscious effort to deal with it.

 

Pick up a copy of Getting the Love You Want : A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix and if you can find a MC (preferably a psychologist) that follows Hendrix's basic principles to work on your marriage with I think you and H can have a great marriage.

 

For the record I don't think a vacation from each other is going to help your marriage but I do think your marriage is salvageable. Marriage begins with a commitment and you both need to start with a commitment to stay in the marriage and to make it work.

 

Another book that has been suggested by Outcast is the Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. I haven't read it but looking at his site it looks like a book that you would understand right away. It makes perfect sense to me

[alturrnababe]

Hi and happy belated valentines!Well, not to minimize your problem or anything, but at least you got something.Mine came home, changed, and went out to play soccer with his friends...didn't come back till 1:00 am, smelled boozy, AND wanted to get laid.He did bring me home chocolate, but at first he forgot and had to go back out.....I made myself a nice dinner, read a new magazine and shared the chocolate with my kids.He does this often so I am pretty used to it now! Anyway that's my news...hope everything works out for you.What did everyone else do for valentines?

[a4a]

Thanks all for your replies!!

 

About Me:

 

I cannot find one more way to change myself to suit his neglect of my desires. I cannot tolerate more unfulfilled promises from him. I cannot do much more for him short of giving him millions of dollars and buying anything he desired. I certainly will not ignore what I want out of life to simply suit another person. I deserve better than that and I can have better than that.

 

HIM: He would not read a book about M. He finds excuses to avoid MC or just even talking to another person about his problems. He is and has been aware of his treatment of me for 6 months, he stated this himself last night.

 

He states it stems from stress of business. He states I am the best thing that ever happened to him. He states he has been a complete dickhead.

He states that I do everything that he wants, short of being a multi millionaire. He states he has again been a complete dickhead. He states he will fix this ASAP. But I have heard this all before.

 

I do not walk into a room and play games, I point blank say " we need to talk, I am upset because I need you to______________." I also include that it is my perception, I feel this way but I am asking you to help me either not feel this way or take the time to listen to me so we can solve this.

 

I am the first, the only one in his life to talk with him about his mom and the effect on him. I have talked about his past relationships. (he states it is because the girls were younger and in party mode and he was in grown up work mode). This has gone on for months. Talking, asking questions, trying to fix this.

 

I will admit that last week I really yelled at him for the first time ever. I did it for no reason. After I yelled at him I explained that I was sorry and that again I am angry and resentful because of his lack of response to my months of talking, pleading, and frustration. (I also was dealing with a dog with a broken leg so tad stressed....... it just blew).

 

Outcast and others calling for self - change:

I explained to him that I have been beating the shyt out of myself wondering what I am doing wrong for 6 months. What flaws do I have that cause this. Am I just that ugly so he is not attracted to me? Am I really retarded and suck at entertaining him? Why does he not appreciate what I do for him? I do not communicate properly? Am I being too nice? Too biotchy? Too calm? Does he need drama to get a spark?

 

Also you need to understand that what I post here is also venting out of frustration. I do not really threaten to shove taters up his a$$. Nor will I ever cheat on him, not just for him but for respect for myself.

 

I did tell him among other things that I am happy we are married, because if we were not married right now I would have already been out the door.

 

His response: I really appreciate that you are direct and honest but that statement hurts. (my god he does have feelings! )

 

And for those that keep saying I need to change. I need to do this or that.

When does some of the responsiblity of the relationship fall onto the other partner?

 

I told him I have one foot out the door, he needs to step up to the plate and just like as if he has had an affair he cannot expect me to change and drop my anger or resentment in 48 hours. Shyt or get off the pot. I have done all I can.

 

He told me that I do treat him like gold. I do fulfill and surpass his expectations. He is damn lucky to have me.

 

I did bring up his lame gourmet meal... He agreed it was lame (I did not use the word lame). He stated that yes we both sat down and decided to do all these things this year, monthly dinners, trips, outtings, ect. He admits he did not put much effort into it. He admits that he is not putting effort into the relationship at all. He does not plan one thing.

 

I have no desire to break his spirit, train him, (we discussed training him at length, it is not ethical for me to do that, I could so crawl into his head but eventually he will figure it out, he is not stupid and deserves respect.) I do not control him. I do not order him around at all. He is far too smart to tolerate that.

 

I am quite happy to be on my own. I enjoy the company but would not go without company if I chose to leave. But if I choose to share my life exclusively with one person I expect them to attempt to fulfill my desires that I want in a partner. I would not accept a drunk or addict in my life, I will not accept being ignored either. I demand that I try my best to treat my friends, spouse, even my coworkers with respect and honesty, and to treat them as I would want to be treated..... I expect and demand the same in return or I will not waste my time, my life with that person.

 

 

This man is loyal, kind, smart, sexy, but is a clueless dumbass when it comes to a relationship.

 

As for a scorecard.... well yes it is coming to that. All I asked for is effort on his part. I got zilch. Again it is me posting this, me working on this, not him.

 

I do not understand the statement of being 37 and 36 and having so many relationships??? He has had 4 Rs, I have had 6 semi to serious Rs. How is that so many if they include high school romance ect?

[Craig]

A4a I hear your anger and your frustration, there’s only one thing left to do. Get a rope just kidding!!!

 

Aight, lemme take a shot in the dark and talk about the “F” word. No not that “F” word, I’m talking about FEAR.

 

Could it be possible that your H is simply afraid either consciously or essentially automatically (unconsciously?) of the unknowns in a relationship? Is he a guy that is used to succeeding at everything he does other than relationships? If so it could be the case that he has a fear of failing in the relationship and people do some pretty interesting things to avoid failure.

 

Some of the ways that people avoid failure that MAY or MAY NOT apply to your H with respect to the relationship are non-participation, being a nice guy, half-assed involvement and not completing things.

 

What do you think?

[a4a]

Craig we must think alike!

 

I posed that question to him again last night. He says he is not afraid to participate.

It is not a fear of failure so he states. He is absolutely fearless in regards to work and dealing with new issues that arise. He does avoid confrontation, as he states he likes to think about the situation before taking action.

 

His main statement was this: he gets mad at himself for the way he treats me, then I appear to be upset because the way he treats me, then in turn again he gets upset by the way he treats me...... rinse and repeat. These are his words... I am still trying to figure this out Sounds like he is walking in circles flogging himself.

 

1. He is aware of his treatment towards me.

2. We have explored his past issues and there is no solid evidence that points to one thing to cause fear, issues, ect.

3. He agrees that I do deserve better and states he is going to try. (rinse and repeat, my fault to see it this way, but previous actions can predict future actions many times, I am allowing "hope" however)

4. I came to realize that I have sacraficed things I need/want to participate in this R. Not resentful because of it, but I have asked him repeatedly to help me get back to the things that make me fulfilled, this requires his help and time. So far I have not gotten a thing from him to help me do this.

5. He states in previous R's that he did do things for others, basicallly they shat on him. I posed the question do I need to shyt on you to make you feel like you need to do things for me....... he says NO.

6. As in a post "men think things are just ducky and are shocked when a woman just leaves them"....... he did state 2 of his ex's just walked out one day on him (both were actually cheating, again they were much younger in early 20's)

7. My next question to him " Do you think I deserve to be treated as I would like to be, and if so is it fair for you to attempt to hold onto me if you are not capable or just do not feel the need or desire to do so?" His answer yes and I am going to try....... again I have heard this before.

 

At this point I feel like I am beating a dead horse. As for looking at websites and books......he will not do that. I did and found them to just be saying and doing exactly what I am attempting to do. Learn to communicate in a way in which you will be heard. Learn what is needed or desired, react/respond in a way that will not result in a neg. reaction. affirmation of the trust.

 

Quite honestly this is horse training 101. Not all that different at all.

 

a4a- back to zoning laws research.......weeeeeeeeeeeee!

[ThumbingMyWay]

I don't know what might work for you, but I'll tell you what worked for me.

 

I dropped ALL my expectations. The only ones left are the deal-breakers.....biggies like fidelity and fiscal responsibility. There's nothing much left he can do wrong.

 

Whatever he brings me pleases me now because I don't expect it. And if he really spends a little time thinking something special up for me....I go nuts!

 

Meantime, I've poured on the attention. He gets a little hug or smooch whenever he crosses my path. I tell him how great he is on a daily basis. I spoil him with little treats. And I give him sex ANYTIME he wants it. Overall, he is a pampered man.

 

I've dropped all my controls. Unless he's crossing my boundaries, and these are limited to the "deal-breakers"....he's a grown man and can do whatever he wants. And I don't tell him what to do EVER.

 

It's been two years this coming spring since I made these changes...and he has blossomed into a loving, attentive husband who reciprocates ALL my efforts....which means I'm fairly spoiled and pampered these days too!

 

I guess there really does come a point at which you realize you're just butting your head up against the wall....doing the same old stuff and getting the same old results. It only took me TWENTY YEARS to get that realization!!! But what I fianlly had to accept is that I can't change anyone but me. So, that's what I did....I changed ME.

 

Like I said earlier, I don't know what will work for you because I don't know the character of your man. I've got a pretty good one though. He doesn't take advantage. He's not out running around, or drinking in the bars, or behaving in ways that are inappropriate for a married man.

 

I can't even imagine how bad that would backfire when dealing with the 'not-so-good-man'.

 

 

LJ you are one classy woman

[Ladyjane14]

I'm not so saintly as all that TMW...but thank you anyhow!

 

Truth to tell, I don't do anything I don't want to do in terms of my relationship. I'm not willing to suffer resentment in making a martyr of myself. So, I weigh any requests he makes of me in that context.

 

I really was trying to fit a square peg into a round whole in some ways though. There's nothing I can effectively do to change anyone else. When I stopped worrying about what my husband does and limited my concerns to only what I bring to the table, I had much greater success.

 

You can't 'make a silk purse out of a sow's ear', a4a. Either this guy fits the bill....or he doesn't.

[barfool]

I feel for you a4a. You are a beautiful, intelligent woman and I know you will choose to do the right thing whatever it may be.

 

So he admitted that he is not putting in any effort and that he is a d!ckhead. At least that's a start. Did he say what he plans to do about it? It's one thing to admit one's faults but it is another to work on them.

 

It does not make any sense to me that someone would know they have a problem but refuse to get help for it, i.e. MC or books. I see this kind of behavior in addicts and depressives and sadly it takes hitting rock bottom for them to reach out.

 

It is entirely possible that he is just so oblivious to feelings that he would not do romantic things for you. It is also possible that, considering his past relationships, he is scared of being emotionally vulnerable. He doesn't want to be romantic and give you all of his love because he is afraid of being trodden on. Maybe that is his defense mechanism.

 

I dunno...good luck a4a.

[carmaenforcer]

Wow! Ladyjane14, the stuff you said about changing your self because you can't change anyone else is the best and simplest advice I have ever heard on how to make a relationship work. What you said later about not doing anything you don't want to do to avoid martyrdom is great advice as well.

I have that tendency of doing nice and when I don't get the appreciation or reciprocation I feel is warranted, I get bent. It's hard for me because I love to treat my woman like a queen, I see it as my job to make her life as happy as possible. She has been good woman to more so lately, not perfect at all, but good to me none the less and I think she deserves a man that will appreciate and celebrate her.

 

You sound like a great wife/partner, I hope mine gets to that point someday. I guess I'll see in twenty years or so, hehe.

[a4a]

Thanks BF and others!

 

As for his plans what to do about it? I did get a call here from him this morn asking how I am, I have a nasty sinus cold thing, very painful behind the eye.

So that was nice!

 

I am the only person that he has cried in front of. I am the only person that has gone this deep into how he feels and what he wants. So I do not think he fears me. I think he is afraid to lose me. But we are adults and realize that it may hurt but we both would get over it if it does not work out.

 

I guess we shall see how it all pans out. In the meantime I think I will be a total pig today, finish this stupid zoning crap and have a ME day!

 

a4a- we got 2 lives, one we are given and the other one we make.

-mary chapin carpenter

[Becoming]

a4a--He has to want to change. You can't do it for him. I know; I tried for years; I gave up, then put down a last-ditch ultimatum: we either go to marriage counseling by {this} date, and you really work at it, or I have to leave to stay sane because your lack of attention is killing my spirit.

 

The sad thing is watching this wonderful guy say he wants to change but then do nothing to make it so. In many ways it really is like living with an alcoholic. Don't buy the work excuse; there's always work. It is an excuse meant to escape responsibility, which probably sounds odd, because if your H is like mine, he seems super-conscientious. But my H will now tell you he just didn't want to work at living deliberately in any arena of his life. He let work tell him what he needed to do, and he did it, and he expected peace and quiet in his Ozzie and Harriet world when he came home. Problem was he doesn't have a wife who vacuums in pearls and high heels with a smile on her face because she's on Valium. So the problem was obviously me not conforming to his view of what marriage should be--without ever having considered me and my needs or taken them seriously--which leads to one angry and resentful wife no matter how matter-of-fact and rational she is.

 

I had to trust my H loved me more than he loved how he was choosing to live when I delivered my ultimatum. And honestly, that was a huge risk. But I got to the point where I didn't care one way or the other: I just knew what I needed, and I wasn't getting that from my H. So he could either choose to accomodate some of my needs or I had to leave to go elsewhere. I found a good marriage counselor who would be fair to both of us through the referral of a friend and he has learned how to get in touch with and talk about emotions, which he had never learned to do. The change has been miraculous.

 

There's something wrong with advice that wants to put all the responsibility for the relationship on your shoulders. You can read all the love langugages books in the world (I know that book--totally useless in my case because IT TAKES TWO, PEOPLE! There comes a time when the other person has to show up and shoulder some responsibility for maintaining the relationship, and he admits he's not done that. The real kicker is that though he says he wants to, he doesn't. Classic passive aggressive behavior by well-meaning, clueless guy who chooses to stay that way.

 

One of the things we have discovered is that I have overfunctioned in the relationship arena so that he can get by with underfunctioning. So I quit it. I don't do anything I can't give without expectation of anything in return. I've let go of expecting that he meet my needs for companionship and started going out alone to see friends, which surprised him. He was shocked when he expected he would come home to see me all evening to learn I wasn't available. He started making dates to see me, which I choose to accept or not depending upon what else is going on in my life. In other words, I started looking realistically at the situation and accepting some things and taking responsibility for getting those needs met outside the marriage (all perfectly within the confines of my vows, as you've said you want to honor).

 

The problem is that you have needs for intimacy that you only want a SO to meet, and he's not. MC gave me more of a run for my money than I anticipated in that I have since learned that I protect myself from being completely vulnerable with H by with a wall of practical, distanced rationality

and anger so that I don't have to expose the neediness I have that I'm afraid will be rejected. I'm learning it's OK to need a man; that doesn't make me a neurotic clingy femme fatale:sick: . It makes me human. Now that H has seen more of my exposed belly of vulnerability, I've gotten more of what it is I really want.

 

And BTW, how's your dog?