Finally asked her out on a date and got rejected. We're very good friends. I don't know if she's being truthful with her reason or not.

[KindaNumb]

So yeah... Where to start... I don't even know how to start and what is or is not relevant at all... So I guess I'll just vent and leave a TL;DR at the end if you don't feel like going into the details.

So I'm a 30 year old dude, but due to all the AI stuff my job is on the verge of extinction. Almost three years ago I saw that and decided to go back to college and take a second bachelor's. (I'm from Europe. Don't worry. I'm not in life-crippling debt).


Right now I both work and study. But here's the thing, my job is fully remote. This means I don't really socialize with anyone from my job, nor have I had a friend group in my city since most people I hang out with in the past have either moved on to other places or we simply lost contact.

This means I joined the university's debate club and I met much of my social circle there. It's with them I've been hanging around in the last years, and honestly I like them. Sure, some are college age, but others are older and there are a lot of different political views we somehow make work.

But in the beginning of this school year in September, I met the girl I'm about to talk about... At first I didn't think much of her. She was cute, of course, but she's 21 and wasn't very talkative. So I didn't bother much with her. But she kept coming to the debates and to the hangouts afterwards... I start getting to know her and we become friendly. But months later, we become friendlier. We start confiding stuff to each other, being close friends... We discover we have much the same outlook of the world, we have same values... But both have a positive, chaotic energy and we both have fun when we're with each other.


So at the same time, I was developing feelings. But I was always in denial. She is 9 years younger than me, after all. For instance, I know for sure one day I want to have kids, but what if she later finds out she doesn't want them? These sorts of questions kept me from making a move for a few months... But there was a time I just decided to go for it. Because the usual problem with age gaps is that values, objectives and life stages don't typically align when there's a 9 year age gap at our ages. But in our cases, all three aligned. I had to take a step back in my life stage and head back into university. I'm studying, I'm going back into the job market in a new role and restarting post-university life in a few years. Same as her. Our values are pretty similar, and our objectives aren't incompatible for now.


But here's the thing... Her life in chaos right now. To cut it short, she had a short-term relationship back in January where the guy turned out to be a real piece of s***. The guy's still proceeding to make her life a living hell. Besides this, she is somehow busier than me (who works and studies.) She's pretty diligent in her studies, to the point she starts group projects without the group and does most of the job herself (she told me this herself. I never experienced it since we're studying different things.), she's also in the university band taking on an important role (she was in a conservatory growing up, so she's really into music), she's part of the student government's body and has responsibilities there, and she's, of course, in our debate club.


Meaning, I've decided to ask her out 3 weeks ago, but could only do it now because that was when she had free time during the week. During 2 of the last 3 weekends she was back in her hometown, while in the last one we managed to get 3 other friends and go to a convention together during the whole weekend... It was great. We all had a ton of fun, and know she was going to have at least one or two free days this coming week since she had no concerts... When we came back I made sure to drop them in the right order so the last 2 were just us two and I asked her out...



What came after, I'm still trying to make sense of it. She told me no, not because of my age, appearance, or what have you, but because she says she's shutdown every relationship idea since what happened back in January with the other guy. Plus, she's so busy with everytihng right now, she barely has time for herself, let alone a guy. She told the only reason she even tried going out with the other guy was because they had "similar" overworked problems in that they were also part of the debate club, the student government, and they had the same classes, so their problems were similar and she could be with him at university.



She also says her friends had told her about my interest because the signs were obvious, but she chose to ignore it because she didn't want to believe I'd be another guy of her friends who would catch feelings for her. She has had this experience before, many times. Most guys stopped being her friends and she said now she doesn't know what I did or did not do without secondary intentions...  This kind of hurt, because it makes it seem like all I ever wanted from her was to either f*** her or a relationship... And that just ain't true. I had no idea I was going to end up falling for someone 9 years younger when we started hanging out.



I also opened up to her about various things to her about my life. Like, how I think I have undiagnosed ADHD at 30 thats making university hard for me this time around. Or about my shitty relationship with my sister. And these are all things I take very long to open up about and don't share to someone I'm only interested in with secondary intentions...



Anyway, I'm feeling numb.



I'm not going to fight back and "reject her rejection." I'm going to let emotions settle down for a few more days before I talk with her again. What I seriously dislike in all this is that it doesn't seem final. She just made it seem like she needs more time alone or for another school period to come with less exams and responsibilities. f***, if she had simply told me I'm too old or that I'm ugly or just not her type, I'd be fine. But giving up on relationships altogether because of one loser feels like one step too far and I already know she has a tight schedule and I'm not too needy for attention, so with communication and planning we could make it work.....



I just needed to vent. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't want to give up on her, but I also don't want to put any pressure and risk losing her. 



TL;DR Girl told me the reason she's not into me is because of an short term ex that's still making her life hell and because she has a very, very busy life with no time for guys.

[Sony12]

She said no. Don't try to overthink it. People get into trouble when they don't accept no as an answer. Find someone else to become interested in.

She's a college girl who's life is a mess anyways so not sure why you think she is such a catch anyways other than perhaps she is really good looking.

[Acacia98]

She's not interested. That is clear. She gave you the answer she did because she didn't want to hurt your feelings. But she really isn't interested. It is a final answer. She hasn't left any room for you to be hopeful. You just want to believe she has.

And, honestly, if we were in an alternate universe where she was actually interested, I would advise you to walk away because she relatively recently broke up with someone and hadn't been able to process it and move on. It sounds like her ex is still part of her life in some unhealthy way. If you have any love and respect for yourself, you will steer clear of women in that kind of situation. You're not a teen or someone in his early 20s, so there's no reason for you to be jumping readily into dysfunctional relationships when multiple red flags are already visible to you.

[Sony12]

She's probably still taking his booty call requests.

[Els]

It doesn't matter what her reason is, does it? I feel like it's better for you to move forward rather than to overthink something that didn't work out.

[Els]

What I seriously dislike in all this is that it doesn't seem final.

When someone says no it's generally best to consider it final. If they ever want to change their mind, and that's a very distant "if", the ball is in their court and there's nothing you can do about it. 

Aside from that, though, do you remember being 21? That's commonly how young women in their teens and early 20s communicate IMO. Many of them haven't yet learned how to give a firm or strong "no".

[ShyViolet]

3 hours ago, KindaNumb said:

I'm not going to fight back and "reject her rejection." I'm going to let emotions settle down for a few more days before I talk with her again. What I seriously dislike in all this is that it doesn't seem final. 

What a bizarre thing to say.  As if "rejecting her rejection" was ever an option?  What on earth makes you think you have the right to reject someone's rejection?  You expressed your interest, she gave you her answer.  Her reasons don't matter.  She gave you her answer.  Now this is your cue to accept it and respect her autonomy as a grown adult who is allowed to make her decisions about who she chooses to date.  It's not normal behavior to continue pursuing someone to try and 'wear them down" when they have already told you no.  It's quite disrespectful.  If she wanted to date you, she would.  It's quite unbelievable that a 30-year-old would not know these very basic norms about dating.

[Sony12]

6 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

What a bizarre thing to say.  As if "rejecting her rejection" was ever an option?  What on earth makes you think you have the right to reject someone's rejection?  You expressed your interest, she gave you her answer.  Her reasons don't matter.  She gave you her answer.  Now this is your cue to accept it and respect her autonomy as a grown adult who is allowed to make her decisions about who she chooses to date.  It's not normal behavior to continue pursuing someone to try and 'wear them down" when they have already told you no.  It's quite disrespectful.  If she wanted to date you, she would.  It's quite unbelievable that a 30-year-old would not know these very basic norms about dating.

Oh there are many guys who don't accept rejection. And a portion of them are individuals the cops start looking for.

[Gebidozo]

Dating 101: when someone says “I don’t want to go out on a date with you”, that’s a final rejection. “No” means “no”. Whatever is said afterwards is irrelevant and, for the most part, just reflects the person’s attempts to soften the blow.

She doesn’t like you romantically. If she did, she would have gone out on a date with you. No, she doesn’t need “more time”. No, there is no such a thing as “rejecting her rejection”. No, you shouldn’t approach her again.

This is actually pretty basic stuff, and I’m a bit surprised that a 30 year old man still doesn’t seem to know it.

[Carlston]

The title was more than enough, as was the TLDR at the bottom.

She said no.

Game over. Take it in the chin like a man and move on with your life.

 

 

[basil67]

Forget all the words and focus on the final answer - No thank you.

And I remember when my daughter was her age....she thought guys your age were far too ancient to date

[ExpatInItaly]

Take it from a 40-something who was once a young 21-year-old lady without much maturity or life experience: she is saying she is not interested, but surrounding it with a fluffy noise because she feels bad rejecting you. She hasn't quite learned that she needs to be clearer and more direct when saying "no", but this is very much still a "no."

It sucks and it stings, but there is nothing more to talk about here with her. She isn't feeling it, man. Please leave it there. 

Edited May 19 by ExpatInItaly

[FredEire]

As others have said she said no and there really is nothing to decode there. I'd only consider continuing a friendship with her if you aren't going to try again and possibly make things weird or sit there pining for her and feeling bad if she starts talking to other guys.

I'd also add that I'm surprised you haven't realised by 30 that becoming a girl's bestie and listening to all her problems about her ex etc well... isn't very attractive if you see things romantically. You're not anyone's knight in shining armour and hoping someone will realise you're a "nice guy" and fall in love with you because you gave them emotional support is not going to lead to anything good.

Edited May 20 by FredEire

[Sanch62]

What, exactly, don't you believe? She doesn't want to date you, or she doesn't want to date you?

[smackie9]

When they turn you down....it means no...and no means no...not maybe. The opportunity is over and you must leave her alone.