How to avoid problems and start a relationship

[Lamron300]

19 hours ago, basil67 said:

If a date has an 'interview' feel, then it's already going to fail.   A date isn't about checking boxes, it's about finding if the two of you 'click' personality wise.   For example, is the conversation enthusiastic?  Do the two of you bounce seamlessly from topic to topic?  Is the eye contact suggestive?  Do you both flirt?   Do the two of you want to set up another date really soon?   This is what a good date is like

I've certainly gone on dates which vibed really well and couldn't wait to see each other again.   It will happen with the person who is right for you.  But as it never happens for you, then a bit of reflection would be wise.   

 

It happens many times for me, but as I said to Fred, my bad dates aren’t different in content to the great dates. I never been on a date with awkward silence or nothing to talk about. Most dates I go on are 3 hours in length, drink or dinner. For example I recently went on two dates, one said no romantic connection, the other said date was nice and wanted a second date. What is amusing is I found the second date boring and the one who said no connection I thought it was a good first date. I’m finding dating online incompatible with my belief systems and the way I am. As I said above, I have met a lot of women that I feel it’s a tick box exercise. I am trying to only go on dates with people who I feel are enthusiastic about the date. If you’re in a position you don’t know what you want from dating, or are dating other people and just keeping options open or in some extreme cases I’ve talked to people in last ten years who are now married to women.. then obviously you won’t find a ‘romantic connection’.

What I am trying to say to you is, apart from some light flirting and just decent conversation about various topics, what can be expected from a first date? And I think that’s my problem. Most dates I’ve been on I’ve been willing to give at least a second date as I see dating different to other people. I don’t understand this I need to feel a magic spark on day 1 over dinner with this stranger or else everything is bad. 

[Lamron300]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

And when you don't enjoy the process, you've already failed.

@Lamron300  What are your options for meeting women in a more organic way?   How often do you go out with friends to social situations?  Or if you have a limited friend group, what about joining a local social group from somewhere like MeetUp and get yourself out and having fun.   

(Note: social groups are for expanding your friend group and doing fun things. They are not for dating.  When you get a bigger social group, you'll go to social situations more often and get to meet women organically}

@basil67This is great advice. I signed up to meetup a while ago and haven’t gone to many. My problem in the past is I have regretfully had partners who have lived with me and then I haven’t still made time to make new social connections or when not in a relationship I’ve spent time only looking for romantic relationships. I complain about OLD a lot yet haven’t done much to change my approach. People can meet online but it takes a certain kind of person. For example, all of a sudden I’m getting many matches (5/6 a day). I can only imagine women will be getting a lot more. Except someone has the mentality that they are laser focused and just don’t want to chat for the sake of it or waste peoples time, people can just use these apps for validation. I use hinge and there is an option to put ‘figuring out my dating goals’ like what does that even mean? For me there is two categories, relationship or something causal. Even if you say ‘go with the flow’ that’s still heading towards a relationship or not. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Lamron300 said:

Except someone has the mentality that they are laser focused and just don’t want to chat for the sake of it or waste peoples time, people can just use these apps for validation.

Yeah, both of these are bad options.  The former will be too intense and the latter is a time waster.  As in most of life, mid way is probably the right place.  

But just between us, from the way you write, you do appear to have a bit of the laser focus going on, and it's definitely working against you

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Lamron300 said:

Very good advice. I understand what you mean I need to go with the flow instead of being scared about what may happen, just take each thing as different. But also, as I said.. going back to the very beginning how do you know someone wants to go on a date with you? If you’re a nice polite guy, they may just say yes ‘what’s the harm’, but that’s going to go nowhere. A date is a vehicle to a romantic relationship. When I got rid of lust, I realised how boring and incompatible some people are. I am a good conversationalist and can expand on most topics. You get a lot of people these days that do one word answers, don’t ask questions or ignore questions. I standby it and say I have never felt a romantic connection on a first date. Of course a quick drink or meal wouldn’t really reveal anything, but as you said if you went to watch the sunset after, got more relaxed then you may feel something different. I used to think there were magic words to say, but I’ve realised all the good dates I’ve gone on which have ended up in something haven’t been different in content to the bad dates. 
 

And in terms of mental health, I mean a woman matched me, started a conversation. Then went straight to sending me voice notes about how she’s taking on a job that she needs to quit as it’s too far , her mum just got rushed to emergency room and needs urgent treatment (this was within first threee messages) didn’t ask me anything back and if your mum is emergency room very sick why are you on a dating app messaging me? I stopped responding .

I get you. I feel I'm in a similar place. I was a bit selfish when I was younger and new to dating, as I was mostly in it for a sense of fun and an ego boost from a sense of sexual conquest. I never lied to anyone but I used to just avoid saying what I was looking for until it petered out.

Then I realised not being straight with your intentions isn't too much better than being dishonest, so if I was looking for casual I'd make sure to say it early on, but I found then that even if the girl I was dating said she was on the same page, feelings would inevitably get involved and things would get complicated sooner or later.

I don't think I'm really a guy who could do some kind of "booty call" relationship, and I don't want to get involved in another FWB situation which isn't a great use of either of our time, but I've found that it's hard to find that same sense of fun when you're two people "looking for something serious".

I don't think it's entirely possible to know if a girl is really interested in getting to know you or if it's a "sure why not" kind of meeting in the initial stages, you only find out as things progress. The key thing I need to work on personally which I feel you may as well is just trying to enjoy the moment and not getting into your head and judging how she's acting or what the relationship is or isn't turning into. If she's jumping ahead or looking at you with some kind of checklist in mind I guess you can't really control that, but I guess if you're more present and not doing that yourself in turn you'll end up meeting women who are on the same frequency as you.

In terms of what you said there in the end, I've come across a fair bit of that as well but I think you just have to chalk that down, move on quickly and pay it no mind. There are plenty of individuals out there who seem to really want a therapist rather than a partner. If someone starts complaining all the time about their horrible job or back pain etc and doesn't seem particularly enthused to see you that would turn me right off as well. The important thing there imo is to just wish them well and let go of that particular interaction, because clearly there isn't much to do, say, or analyse.

[Lamron300]

31 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I get you. I feel I'm in a similar place. I was a bit selfish when I was younger and new to dating, as I was mostly in it for a sense of fun and an ego boost from a sense of sexual conquest. I never lied to anyone but I used to just avoid saying what I was looking for until it petered out.

Then I realised not being straight with your intentions isn't too much better than being dishonest, so if I was looking for casual I'd make sure to say it early on, but I found then that even if the girl I was dating said she was on the same page, feelings would inevitably get involved and things would get complicated sooner or later.

I don't think I'm really a guy who could do some kind of "booty call" relationship, and I don't want to get involved in another FWB situation which isn't a great use of either of our time, but I've found that it's hard to find that same sense of fun when you're two people "looking for something serious".

I don't think it's entirely possible to know if a girl is really interested in getting to know you or if it's a "sure why not" kind of meeting in the initial stages, you only find out as things progress. The key thing I need to work on personally which I feel you may as well is just trying to enjoy the moment and not getting into your head and judging how she's acting or what the relationship is or isn't turning into. If she's jumping ahead or looking at you with some kind of checklist in mind I guess you can't really control that, but I guess if you're more present and not doing that yourself in turn you'll end up meeting women who are on the same frequency as you.

In terms of what you said there in the end, I've come across a fair bit of that as well but I think you just have to chalk that down, move on quickly and pay it no mind. There are plenty of individuals out there who seem to really want a therapist rather than a partner. If someone starts complaining all the time about their horrible job or back pain etc and doesn't seem particularly enthused to see you that would turn me right off as well. The important thing there imo is to just wish them well and let go of that particular interaction, because clearly there isn't much to do, say, or analyse.

I agree with this. I find the thrill of meeting someone who lives close to me and open for something easy going and causal exciting. Someone set on a relationship (maybe sometimes as they’re bored of casual) isn’t as exciting and can be quite tick box in nature. For example, I’m speaking to a woman that I first met in 2020, for one reason or another we haven’t been able to get momentum although there is chemistry. First time I went on two dates with her, then I met my ex who at the time I thought would be more suitable. We reconnected in 2024 and went on a further two dates, she then had a surgery and our talking went slow. Reconnected again this week after seeing her on a dating app. She said to me on WhatsApp, let’s talk long term, what are you looking for in a relationship? I didn’t like this as I feel how can I promise anything? It feels like people putting pressure on when they say that, say what I want or go away. We could end up in a relationship if things go good, we may end up horrible or things fizzle out. What is the point of that question?  She asked me if I think I have the time/effort for a relationship?!

I also shoot myself in the foot by doing things I say I don’t want. For example, 3 weeks ago I went out with a woman with a child. I never date women with children anymore as it always backfires or is too complicated. Anyway I found the date boring but asked her out again and she said yes. After speaking more on WhatsApp I just found it too hard to gain momentum, I lost my phone for two days and she messaged me many times asking if I was ghosting. This is the same person who takes 6/7 hours to reply! Anyway, she is only available every 3/4 weeks to meet due to her kid. That’s not something which I want or I am compatible especially as she said she wants something serious. Not many men will wait 3/4 weeks to meet someone. I waste too much of my time and other peoples time by even entertaining things which are a no go for me; then wonder why I’m in my situation. 

[basil67]

34 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

She said to me on WhatsApp, let’s talk long term, what are you looking for in a relationship? I didn’t like this as I feel how can I promise anything? It feels like people putting pressure on when they say that, say what I want or go away.

You've got this very wrong.  This is a generic question to figure out if your goals are sufficiently aligned to warrant further dating.  She's not asking you to promise anything.  There is zero pressure on you.   

42 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

She asked me if I think I have the time/effort for a relationship

This is a very good question.   She simply wants to know that the way you do relationships is compatible with her.   If you're a workaholic or are too busy at the gym or friends to meet up frequently, this is the time to disclose it.   Likewise, if you love long lazy weekends together and catching up on weeknights, then it could work well

[Lamron300]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

You've got this very wrong.  This is a generic question to figure out if your goals are sufficiently aligned to warrant further dating.  She's not asking you to promise anything.  There is zero pressure on you.   

This is a very good question.   She simply wants to know that the way you do relationships is compatible with her.   If you're a workaholic or are too busy at the gym or friends to meet up frequently, this is the time to disclose it.   Likewise, if you love long lazy weekends together and catching up on weeknights, then it could work well

She isn’t someone new to me, we’ve known each other for 5 years. I felt pressure from the question due to being in 30s, seemed more than the standard, what are you looking for? I told her in response I’m ready for a relationship and not too busy. I remember a date I went on with her last year, I told her I was with my ex for 1.5 years, and she was like woah?? And you didn’t get married?. I’m thinking how is 1.5 years that long of a time, especially when we were incompatible from the beginning. 

In my head, it’s a nice story. I should have dated her in 2020 instead of my ex, in 2024 we should’ve gone on more dates than we did. I just want to make sure I’m not being nostalgic and actually see it for what things are. 
 

The big issue I am having now is I know it is possible to meet people, but I want everything to be right and I don’t know when I’ll get that lightbulb moment. I’ve met some people with great personalities; however, attraction has been lacking and vice versa. If I want kids and to settle down I can’t be going for short term or causal, but at same time need to go with the flow in life. It’s hard. This is why meetups as you suggested is good as I could just have fun making mates, would be good and what happens happens. 

Edited April 9 by Lamron300
Added info

[basil67]

39 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

I felt pressure from the question due to being in 30s, seemed more than the standard, what are you looking for? I told her in response I’m ready for a relationship and not too busy.

Oh for heavens sake, she didn't want to know what you want with HER long term.  She wanted to know in general. Things such a kids, or buying a house, have you considered what retirement might look like?   And then because you felt her question was incorrect, you didn't even answer it.  

Reading your threads over the years, I feel like you have a high degree of rigid thinking, and this shows itself in the way you interact with others....and in how you interpret their behaviour. If they don't say what you're expecting, then you think they are wrong.   This is underscored by many of us offering different perspectivesto you, but you've rejected them all because it doesn't fit the plan you've made.  I have no doubt that this rigidity would be a biggest contributor to why you're still single.   

Have you ever worked with a psychologist?  Do you have any diagnosis?   I only ask because better understanding of ourselves can change the way we approach others. 

Edited April 9 by basil67

[Lamron300]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Oh for heavens sake, she didn't want to know what you want with HER long term.  She wanted to know in general. Things such a kids, or buying a house, have you considered what retirement might look like?   And then because you felt her question was incorrect, you didn't even answer it.  

Reading your threads over the years, I feel like you have a high degree of rigid thinking, and this shows itself in the way you interact with others....and in how you interpret their behaviour. If they don't say what you're expecting, then you think they are wrong.   This is underscored by many of us offering different perspectivesto you, but you've rejected them all because it doesn't fit the plan you've made.  I have no doubt that this rigidity would be a biggest contributor to why you're still single.   

Have you ever worked with a psychologist?  Do you have any diagnosis?   I only ask because better understanding of ourselves can change the way we approach others. 

I’m not single because I can’t find people, I’m only looking for the right person. For example, just as I type this, a woman I’ve been going back and forth with over many messages for days just revealed to me she has a kid and said (not sure when it’s right time to disclose this). I don’t want to date someone with a kid for obvious reasons. We have been talking and I’m bored of talking online as only in person meeting counts. When someone has a kid, rightfully, they can’t just spontaneously meet. There is also other baggage associated. I’ve probably talked to around 4/5 women with kids in my dating life and every time it was a nightmare to meet etc. Why would she be clandestine with it and only travel after a few days? On Hinge there is literally a section for if you have/wants kids.

Sorry I’m going on a tangent. What I am trying to say to you is, I’m a young man who isn’t judgemental in general, but I keep reminding myself I am not looking for a friend, but a relationship. I can complain about wasting my time or I can heed warnings and live with it. I pay very close attention to what people say. 

[Acacia98]

On 4/9/2025 at 12:49 AM, Lamron300 said:

I waste too much of my time and other peoples time by even entertaining things which are a no go for me; then wonder why I’m in my situation. 

Have you ever considered the possibility that there's a part of you that doesn't want to settle down with someone?

In my experience, when one dates actively (because they want to meet Mr or Ms Right) but keeps making time for completely unsuitable people, it sometimes means that he/she is ambivalent about settling down (deep down inside).

[Lamron300]

On 4/19/2025 at 10:23 AM, Acacia98 said:

Have you ever considered the possibility that there's a part of you that doesn't want to settle down with someone?

In my experience, when one dates actively (because they want to meet Mr or Ms Right) but keeps making time for completely unsuitable people, it sometimes means that he/she is ambivalent about settling down (deep down inside).

Thank you for your response. I definitely do want to settle down, my problem is I’m bad at reading people. I didn’t used to take people’s words or actions as seriously as I do now. 
 

For example, I went on a date about one month ago. The lady initiated the chat online, she suggested the date when I asked about her accent and said maybe it’s better tested in person. Her communication was awful, then I didn’t hear from her till the day before the date. She added me on WhatsApp and said I don’t even know your name (my name is an initial on the app). On day of date, she asked what time are we meeting again? The date itself lasted four hours, talked as normal, no awkward silences. Said goodbyes and didn’t hear back from her for 1.5 days, to say she had a nice time but doesn’t think anything romantic on horizon between us. I didn’t care at all as I didn’t feel connected to her. What annoyed me is I felt disrespected. Her whole behavior up to the date she suggested seemed like, ah this is a chore I have to do (didn’t ask name, didn’t message for a day after date, didn’t even remember time or date).  I said I would never 
 

Another date I went on was with a woman I’ve known for 5 years, we’ve dated on and off, but things get in the way (work, sickness) etc. We went on two more dates about two months ago. The last date was to an arcade, she was acting weird from the beginning. I went to give her a hug on greeting and she sort of turned the side of her face to me. After we had finished eating and arcade ( she lives ten minutes away) I said let me drop you home, she said ahh I can get an uber. I said why would you get an Uber when I can drop you? She said well maybe you need to rush off.  I said rush off where? Anyway, she accepted the lift and I dropped her home. I went in for the peck (we’ve kissed many times since we’ve known each other) and she turned her cheek to me. I didn’t think much of it as she had literally invited me on holiday with her the week before, I said aha proper kiss. She did most awkward peck. Anyway, when I got home I asked her aha why were you being awkward? She said I wasn’t being awkward? Why do you think I was being awkward? I said you turned your cheek to me. Only the next day she messaged me and said you’re a really nice guy and I enjoy spending time with you, I’m happy to stay friends if you are. Again, I didn’t respond and felt anger. 
 

The reason I felt anger is I’m a very laidback person, like I can handle the truth, my time was generally wasted as I could’ve booked a ticket with her for holiday she invited me on, from beginning of date she was acting weird (definitely met someone else), which is fine. But because I’m a ‘nice guy’, she doesn’t want to seem bad. 
 

I know it’s a long response, but what I am trying to say, I don’t usually know people are unsuitable, which is my big weakness. 

[Lamron300]

I’d be very interested to know from women on this forum, what you consider to be a romantic spark? A lot of bad advice is online about how men need to escalate touch and flirting, which I feel would probably make a lot women uncomfortable. 
 

As I said in an earlier post, I have never felt a ‘spark’ on any date. A date is what you make it to be. If someone just does it to kill time or get out the house or they’re just keeping their options open from the main person they’re dating, nothing is going to progress anyway. 
 

In last 6 months I’ve had a few short relationships, which have ended due to external circumstances (partner having mental breakdown etc)

I’m currently dating a woman and I don’t know what to make of her. What I mean by that is, we’ve seen each other 5 times in a week (she lives 20 minutes away), she gets me little gifts. There is a lot of attraction between us (she is 8 years older). She said something strange yesterday, ‘I’m scared of labels’ (funny as she’s been married in the past). She said she assumes if you’re dating, you’re dating exclusively or something along those lines (very naive) and no it doesn’t imply that. She constantly wants to spend time together and is open with her thoughts about not having expectations or getting to excited about something ‘good’ like this as you never know what can happen. Like she bought tickets for a show in a month and was scared to ask me in case it looked keen. When someone’s logic or words don’t make sense, is this something to be alarmed by? 
 

I never ever ask anyone ‘what is this or where is this going’ early on, but at the same time, as my post above, I feel people don’t say what they mean and mean what they say. A lot of things in the past could’ve been different with women I met with just better communication. 

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

What annoyed me is I felt disrespected.

3 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

Again, I didn’t respond and felt anger. 

I find these reactions of yours quite alarming.

There was nothing disrespectful in the behavior of the first woman, and nothing bound to elicit anger in that of the second one.

The first woman tried a date with you, felt no romantic chemistry at all, and directly told you that. What exactly is disrespectful here? Disrespectful would be using you and stringing you along without being romantically attracted to you.

The second woman tried several dates with you, on and off, and eventually lost the romantic feeling for you, if she ever had it. Again, she honestly told you she’d rather just be friends. That happens. There is nothing to be angry about here.

[FredEire]

8 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I find these reactions of yours quite alarming.

There was nothing disrespectful in the behavior of the first woman, and nothing bound to elicit anger in that of the second one.

The first woman tried a date with you, felt no romantic chemistry at all, and directly told you that. What exactly is disrespectful here? Disrespectful would be using you and stringing you along without being romantically attracted to you.

The second woman tried several dates with you, on and off, and eventually lost the romantic feeling for you, if she ever had it. Again, she honestly told you she’d rather just be friends. That happens. There is nothing to be angry about here.

I agree.

The more OP reveals about these dates, the more I feel there's a bit of projection going on, is the anger more directed at something about yourself?

It would also explain why your romantic interests with different women keep going the same direction. Perhaps a mix of picking the wrong people for confirmation bias, and negatively framing how you expect the encounter to go.

[Lamron300]

43 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I find these reactions of yours quite alarming.

There was nothing disrespectful in the behavior of the first woman, and nothing bound to elicit anger in that of the second one.

The first woman tried a date with you, felt no romantic chemistry at all, and directly told you that. What exactly is disrespectful here? Disrespectful would be using you and stringing you along without being romantically attracted to you.

The second woman tried several dates with you, on and off, and eventually lost the romantic feeling for you, if she ever had it. Again, she honestly told you she’d rather just be friends. That happens. There is nothing to be angry about here.

You didn’t read it properly or skipped the key parts. The first woman literally didn’t make any contact for 4/5 days before the date ( I never agree to a date without having some rapport online) it’s not a blind date. Her tone in her messages was more like it was a business meeting. Oh I didn’t even know your name? Whereas every other single person I was talking to said what does ‘C’ stand for. As another poster said, I will only do coffee meets for a first date now in the future (if current situation doesn’t work out etc). Between transport, drinks and food i usually spend like £100 on a date. I don’t buy stuff to impress, I just feel asking to split is awkward, ‘oh you ate more etc, or what tip should we give’. I also won’t meet women anymore 1hr from me and ten minutes from them or whilst they’re on route for another activity. Not sure why you can’t understand my frustration with that date, not the outcome. I’m annoyed at myself for going on it. 
 

The second woman as I said we’ve dated on and off for five years and she knows me, she should’ve said before the date. She was acting strange through the date and if I didn’t know her ‘well already’ I’d probably have thought more of it. You don’t invite someone on holiday and pester me to book my ticket before it’s too late and then a few days later everything is all different. What you don’t understand it isn’t the outcome I care about, it’s the poor communication. Just tell me upfront, you’re not feeling it. It’s absolutely fine. 
 

Anyway I’m seeing someone now as I mentioned above, it’s not about this situations in isolation, it’s about how to get people to be frank. Before I met the woman I’m dating now I went on one date with a woman, we agreed to another date. She went radio silent for like 4/5 days. She then texted me out the blue saying sorry I went awol and tried to pick up where things left off. Like everything was ‘normal’ this was after rearranging the second date twice in a row. I obviously wasn’t interested anymore. Am I expecting too much from strangers? Is it just that there is no way of fully vetting people? 

Edited May 26 by Lamron300

[Lamron300]

24 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I agree.

The more OP reveals about these dates, the more I feel there's a bit of projection going on, is the anger more directed at something about yourself?

It would also explain why your romantic interests with different women keep going the same direction. Perhaps a mix of picking the wrong people for confirmation bias, and negatively framing how you expect the encounter to go.

No, it’s the complete opposite. I don’t have any expectations going into a date apart from the person wants to be there. I do not swipe right on profiles that say ‘figuring my dating goals out’. Like how many different options are there? And if you’re too shy to say what you want, I’m not interested. 
 

The reason I get over women very quickly is because I said to myself, ok they said they didn’t want to go further but are they stopping you from meeting someone new? No. The reason I get angry is when people try to be sly or seem ‘nice’. I directly asked the woman I’ve dated over five years ‘why were you being awkward?’ She literally tried to deny it. Till I pushed further and said how she was being. If I didn’t mention it, she would have just kept on. She would have liked to have me as a friend no doubt. For example, if I knew her worry was about possibly kissing, I would have said good night and let her take an uber like she wanted. And again, there is context, we last reconnected in 2024, she was dating someone else, I was quite cheeky and said well let me know when it ends, thinking nothing would come of it. Unexpectedly she did message me back, we started dating, then she had a surgery and went radio silent. So this is an individual known to me, I’m not going around being angry about first dates 

[Sanch62]

3 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

The first woman literally didn’t make any contact for 4/5 days before the date...

Did you message or phone her during this time?

Quote

Her tone in her messages was more like it was a business meeting.

How do you get that from a message?

Quote

Oh I didn’t even know your name? Whereas every other single person I was talking to said what does ‘C’ stand for.

Did you ever properly introduce yourself to offer your name, or do you have a don't-ask-don't-tell policy on that?

You're making passive observations as though you just watched this woman interact with someone else, and you have no inclination to step up and volley in these interactions. That way, you can pick them apart if they don't work out and puff up with indignation over stuff that wouldn't matter if they do work out.

Quote

As another poster said, I will only do coffee meets for a first date now in the future ...

Good. That's smart. The idea is to screen people to learn IF you want to date them rather than offer a full-course meal to a complete stranger. Coffee meets are a neutral ground to check one another out. They require nothing, not even a confirmation, because it's no skin off your back to just take your coffee with you if you get stood up.

Strangers don't require any investment or analysis. That's too much of a wheel spin given that most people are NOT our match. That's just natural odds. It's also not a reflection on you. So the more quickly and efficiently you can meet people to screen them in or out of your dating pool, the less hostility will be triggered by those who belong out.

Head high, it's a needle-in-the-haystack pursuit to find simpatico with another. If finding love were easy, what would be so special about it?

[Lamron300]

1 hour ago, Sanch62 said:

Did you message or phone her during this time?

How do you get that from a message?

Did you ever properly introduce yourself to offer your name, or do you have a don't-ask-don't-tell policy on that?

You're making passive observations as though you just watched this woman interact with someone else, and you have no inclination to step up and volley in these interactions. That way, you can pick them apart if they don't work out and puff up with indignation over stuff that wouldn't matter if they do work out.

Good. That's smart. The idea is to screen people to learn IF you want to date them rather than offer a full-course meal to a complete stranger. Coffee meets are a neutral ground to check one another out. They require nothing, not even a confirmation, because it's no skin off your back to just take your coffee with you if you get stood up.

Strangers don't require any investment or analysis. That's too much of a wheel spin given that most people are NOT our match. That's just natural odds. It's also not a reflection on you. So the more quickly and efficiently you can meet people to screen them in or out of your dating pool, the less hostility will be triggered by those who belong out.

Head high, it's a needle-in-the-haystack pursuit to find simpatico with another. If finding love were easy, what would be so special about it?

We were talking on the dating app hinge and she was taking days or even a week to respond. First time she apologized and said it was her parents in town. Second time it was getting near to the date and I hadn’t heard back confirmation, so I sent her my phone number. Day before she messaged hey it’s Xxxx from hinge! Sorry I don’t actually know your name. I then thought maybe on WhatsApp we can actually get some conversation going, I asked simple question how’s your day been? She said been a bit busy or something like that, didn’t ask about mine in return . Then didn’t hear back for next 24 hours till day of date when she asked what time is date again? She could’ve literally just checked the message. I dunno about you but I don’t go on that many dates in a week to not remember the time of the date (she suggested the day). I bought drinks and we spoke for a while, then she asked if I’m hungry and fancied going to a restaurant. I said okay. We talked till closing time. My problem with dating is I’m not ruthless enough, I think ah if we chatted for four hours, seemed good, what went bad in those four hours to be against seeing someone again. But that’s not how dating world works. People have many people on the go etc. I should have said to myself, I know about being busy I own two businesses, if she wanted to go on the date in the first place she wouldn’t take weeks and days to respond for a date she suggested. I have learnt this lesson. 
 

You might think why am I so angry and hostile? It’s because I feel disrespected constantly, where I am a nice guy. Rejection is not a problem at all, it is because people always go about it a round about way? Are they worried about reprisal or what? 

I don’t like drinking alcohol with strangers on a date as it can make me feel comfortable and sleepy and I am not with friends or even an acquaintance, but a lot of people want to go drinks or dinner on a first date. I won’t do it anymore. Coffee or a walk, something that there is nothing to lose. 
 

I want to underscore this by saying I am currently dating someone, things are going well. What I am trying to do is frame my mentality for the future if I am dating for whatever reason. Screening people out BEFORE dates. It isn’t just luck of a draw or the universe, the people I have got on with in the past have wanted to be on the date with me as they’ve said. I’m looking to skip people who just see it as a ticklist. Dating with anger is a hindrance. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

You might think why am I so angry and hostile? It’s because I feel disrespected constantly, where I am a nice guy.

I was just reading your whole update and thinking "UGH, he's sounding like a 'nice guy'.  No wonder he's failing"  And whammo!  This comment nailed it.    What would your new date think of you if she saw all of this while she's thinking that you're a happy fun guy?   And what's up that you're focussing on all this past, but she gets only a tiny mention in your whole diatribe?

I've put a blurb below which sums up 'nice guys' and I suggest you read it.  You're not doing all of this, but you're doing a lot and women will be picking up on it.  Generally speaking, nice guys are a turn off.   Women like 'good guys'.   Guys who are thoughtful, friendly, fun, assertive, have boundaries and who don't carry around a mountain of bitterness.    Please read it and reflect on just how much of this is vibing through your writing.    Disclaimer, it was the first response in Google and is AI.  But it also nailed what I am trying to describe so here it is:

Nice Guy

In a relationship context, a "nice guy" refers to a man who consistently puts his own needs and desires aside to please others, often at the expense of his own boundaries and well-being. It's a behavior often associated with people-pleasing, lack of assertiveness, and a tendency to be overly accommodating. While the term can be used to describe someone who is genuinely kind and friendly, in a relationship context, it often carries a negative connotation due to the implied manipulation and lack of self-respect. 

Here's a more detailed look:

Lack of assertiveness:

They struggle to stand up for themselves or express their own opinions, often being hesitant to say "no" or set boundaries. 

Over-accommodating:

They may go above and beyond to please others, even when it's not necessary or reasonable. 

Manipulation:

While not always intentional, their behavior can be manipulative as they seek to control or influence others through their accommodating nature. 

Hidden agendas:

Behind their kindness and generosity, they may be seeking a relationship or validation, often expecting a reward for their actions. 

Self-sabotage:

By prioritizing others' needs, they may end up neglecting their own, leading to unhappiness, resentment, and burnout. 

People-pleasing:

Nice guys prioritize the needs and desires of others above their own, often leading them to agree to things they don't want to do or suppress their own feelings to avoid conflict. 

[basil67]

Re the two women you were complaining about .  With both of them, you did a Nice Guy fail because you had no boundaries, but hold resentment.   If you've got no boundaries, then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get let down.   Flipping genders.....back in the day I'd get sad and feel used because I'd had hot kisses or had sex with a guys who it turned out didn't want to date me.   But the epiphany was that this was MY FAULT.  If I wanted a guy who cared about me,  I shouldn't be starting out with sex.   Or, if I was hot and wanted sex, I shouldn't make assumptions about it leading to a relationship. 

Woman 1:  If you want a lot of texting contact and conversation prior to the date, and the person you're talking to doesn't deliver, then cancel the date.  That said, I think she was out for a free meal from you.  Why did you buy her dinner if she wasn't even making an effort to get to know you?    You complain of feeling disrespected, but you didn't use any boundaries in the first place.  This means you disrespected yourself.  This one is on you for using poor judgement.   

Woman 2: The two of you couldn't get into a relationship in the years you've known each other, so now she is clearly just a friend.   The holiday is a holiday with a friend.   A hug and a cheek kiss is absolutely acceptable when meeting an old friend.   And her getting an Uber home was her trying to make a boundary.  I don't know if you're paying for the dates and holidays with this friend, but if you are, then more fool you.   Again, find some boundaries.   

[Lamron300]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I was just reading your whole update and thinking "UGH, he's sounding like a 'nice guy'.  No wonder he's failing"  And whammo!  This comment nailed it.    What would your new date think of you if she saw all of this while she's thinking that you're a happy fun guy?   And what's up that you're focussing on all this past, but she gets only a tiny mention in your whole diatribe?

I've put a blurb below which sums up 'nice guys' and I suggest you read it.  You're not doing all of this, but you're doing a lot and women will be picking up on it.  Generally speaking, nice guys are a turn off.   Women like 'good guys'.   Guys who are thoughtful, friendly, fun, assertive, have boundaries and who don't carry around a mountain of bitterness.    Please read it and reflect on just how much of this is vibing through your writing.    Disclaimer, it was the first response in Google and is AI.  But it also nailed what I am trying to describe so here it is:

Nice Guy

In a relationship context, a "nice guy" refers to a man who consistently puts his own needs and desires aside to please others, often at the expense of his own boundaries and well-being. It's a behavior often associated with people-pleasing, lack of assertiveness, and a tendency to be overly accommodating. While the term can be used to describe someone who is genuinely kind and friendly, in a relationship context, it often carries a negative connotation due to the implied manipulation and lack of self-respect. 

Here's a more detailed look:

Lack of assertiveness:

They struggle to stand up for themselves or express their own opinions, often being hesitant to say "no" or set boundaries. 

Over-accommodating:

They may go above and beyond to please others, even when it's not necessary or reasonable. 

Manipulation:

While not always intentional, their behavior can be manipulative as they seek to control or influence others through their accommodating nature. 

Hidden agendas:

Behind their kindness and generosity, they may be seeking a relationship or validation, often expecting a reward for their actions. 

Self-sabotage:

By prioritizing others' needs, they may end up neglecting their own, leading to unhappiness, resentment, and burnout. 

People-pleasing:

Nice guys prioritize the needs and desires of others above their own, often leading them to agree to things they don't want to do or suppress their own feelings to avoid conflict. 

This is interesting and I will definitely keep it in mind. I definitely would say I don’t prioritize strangers needs over my own or have hidden agendas.  
 

In regard to why the person I’m dating isn’t relevant to this, is I don’t have any issues with her. My point in my original question was to change my mindset or at least give myself a better chance of dating in the future (how this goes or any other relationship may go). I don’t want to swan off into the sunset thinking everything is all good, then check in if or when something goes wrong. 90% of my dating issues could’ve been sorted by better perception. How the communication is before the date is vitally important and how people act or even what they have on the profile or what they’re telling you is their current circumstance. The lady I described above that I didn’t vibe with her communication style etc, nobody put a gun to my head to go on a date with her and I still did. I’ve learnt from that.  The big mistake I made in my 20s was not going to meetups to make new friends in town, I’d focus more on romantic relationships. That’s something I want to change. 

[Lamron300]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Re the two women you were complaining about .  With both of them, you did a Nice Guy fail because you had no boundaries, but hold resentment.   If you've got no boundaries, then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get let down.   Flipping genders.....back in the day I'd get sad and feel used because I'd had hot kisses or had sex with a guys who it turned out didn't want to date me.   But the epiphany was that this was MY FAULT.  If I wanted a guy who cared about me,  I shouldn't be starting out with sex.   Or, if I was hot and wanted sex, I shouldn't make assumptions about it leading to a relationship. 

Woman 1:  If you want a lot of texting contact and conversation prior to the date, and the person you're talking to doesn't deliver, then cancel the date.  That said, I think she was out for a free meal from you.  Why did you buy her dinner if she wasn't even making an effort to get to know you?    You complain of feeling disrespected, but you didn't use any boundaries in the first place.  This means you disrespected yourself.  This one is on you for using poor judgement.   

Woman 2: The two of you couldn't get into a relationship in the years you've known each other, so now she is clearly just a friend.   The holiday is a holiday with a friend.   A hug and a cheek kiss is absolutely acceptable when meeting an old friend.   And her getting an Uber home was her trying to make a boundary.  I don't know if you're paying for the dates and holidays with this friend, but if you are, then more fool you.   Again, find some boundaries.   

It isn’t on me, because I didn’t know her . She made up stuff about her parents being in town that’s why she wasn’t responding, which didn’t make sense. I literally know from my current experience, the person I’m dating I only met last week. Feels a lot longer as we’ve met up everyday. Woman 1 probably was with someone or in crunch decision stage with someone. I agree with you on this to an extent. I see lots of posts on forums like ‘why didn’t she respond etc or takes long to respond’ if I didn’t like her communication style I should’ve just not agreed to meet up. She’s from north of England originally so I was curious about her accent and she said maybe it’s best tested in person? Which means a date. I said you’re right, let’s meet up when are you free? Because she initiated the meet up talk, that’s why I was more persistent. 
 

Woman 2, no. She is just a typical cowardly person. It’s not a strong word in this context as honestly there is no need to please me. We’ve kissed like a million times since we’ve known each other and I’ve known her 5 years. She knew my intentions as we spoke about it when we reconnected on hinge, so why would she invite me to a holiday as a friend? Like she has friends . Wouldn’t make sense. Btw I never went on the holiday with her, she asked me to come. And we couldn’t get into a relationship for reasons I’ve said above and for 2.5 years of those 5 years I was dating someone else and I assume she was in a relationship. 
 

I’m not trying to argue with you about specifics you couldn’t know or aren’t relevant, what I’m telling you is I just want people to be straight with me, there is never any resentment or bad feeling when honest. The uber is nonsense as well and that’s what annoyed me the most. To try and put it on me and tell me that I’m in a RUSH.. how can she tell me that I’m in a rush? To where?  If I’m hung up on one woman it means I’m not confident of finding someone else either because I believe I’m inadequate or that person is gold dust. Both would be pretty bleak to believe. I only ever want the truth to avoid wasting time. 
 

I’ve already had good suggestions about coffee only dates in future. I won’t pay for more than a coffee. Also as you said if I don’t like someone’s communication, I’ll stop the communication there. I’ve never been in a relationship, casual or otherwise with a slow texter. That’s fine. I think I’d be a lot better if I stick to my guns of what im Looking for instead of deviating. 
 

It just came to my head how issues happen. For example, the woman I’m dating at the moment, I find her very attractive. She seems normal, we chat great etc. But because I met her on an app, in my head it’s super hard to find someone like this. It then in my head makes me accept more things than I would if I met in real life. It’s like putting someone on a pedestal without realizing. I’ve been moaning about apps for years but don’t know how to transition off them. For example, she lives 20 minutes from me and goes to some of same places I do but I’ve never seen her till we started dating. Apps have their use, but I feel it’s what gives me the resentment/jaded feeling. It’s not as easy to get a date online anymore, as loads more people are on them than before, general flakiness etc. I almost have a different online standard to real life standard, which creates a problem. Stuff which is fairly minor gets on my nerves like woman 1. I didn’t find her to look like her pictures or am I particular bothered about her, but I’m still thinking about it. Which is what concerns me. I’m jaded, optimistic but jaded. There is nothing I haven’t seen from women online. For example the woman I’m dating now is so so lovely, she brought me chocolate and sweets when she came to my house last week and said I couldn’t come empty handed. Then she also got me some chocolate from a big candy store on Sunday as she said she was thinking about me and knows I like that stuff. Usually I’d think in my head ahh that’s so nice and different, however, the woman I was dating in November got me sleeping oil gift on date 2 for no reason, asked if she was my gf on date 3, 100mph. Then she didn’t get the grade she wanted on her masters degree and had some sort of breakdown, ghosted me for two days before calling me to tell me ‘she can’t do this right now’. What I’m trying to say is I’m cynical and angry due to experiences, like many people: I talk about it here as I’d never talk about it to a date or listen to it as it’s off putting. No not all men are the same or all women are the same. I’m just being cautious now. 

[basil67]

56 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

This is interesting and I will definitely keep it in mind. I definitely would say I don’t prioritize strangers needs over my own or have hidden agendas.  

Nobody is a 100% fit for anything.   But yes, you have a lot of these traits

30 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

It isn’t on me, because I didn’t know her . She made up stuff about her parents being in town that’s why she wasn’t responding, which didn’t make sense.

This is on you because stuff didn't make sense and you dated her anyway.   And then when the parents left  she was still not messaging, and you didn't like it yet you dated her anyway.   And then after all the minimal contact she asked for drinks and dinner on the first date.   If you ask a woman on the date, you make the plans.  If a woman tries to upgrade the plans, assume she's in it for a free meal, use some boundaries and cancel the date.  

30 minutes ago, Lamron300 said:

Woman 2, no. She is just a typical cowardly person. It’s not a strong word in this context as honestly there is no need to please me. We’ve kissed like a million times since we’ve known each other and I’ve known her 5 years. She knew my intentions as we spoke about it when we reconnected on hinge, so why would she invite me to a holiday as a friend? Like she has friends . Wouldn’t make sense. Btw I never went on the holiday with her, she asked me to come. And we couldn’t get into a relationship for reasons I’ve said above and for 2.5 years of those 5 years I was dating someone else and I assume she was in a relationship. 

You call this woman a coward, you don't understand her actions but you still want to date her.   How is this not on you? 

Talking about being angry and feeling disrespected after not having any boundaries is classic nice guy.   Stop doing this!  The girls are going to pick up on it and it's a real turn off

Edited May 26 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

You didn’t read it properly or skipped the key parts.

Nope, I read everything attentively. Once again: what you need to be thinking about is your reaction to the behavior of those women, not their behavior. You’re getting outraged, berate them, which is pointless and comes across as condescending and self-centered. People aren’t machines. Those women did what they did because they didn’t like you or stopped liking you. Yes, maybe there were less awkward ways to express that, but they aren’t you and they expressed that to the best of their abilities. You don’t get to command them and order them to do these things the way you would or the way you think is right.

In any case, those women must feel that they are being scrutinized and vetted instead of wooed and romanced. Clearly, that turns them off, and they are beginning to look for a way out. Your calculated, unemotional approach to dating and the frustration and anger that you feel when you witness the results of it are young you a great disservice.

 

 

 

 

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

You might think why am I so angry and hostile? It’s because I feel disrespected constantly, where I am a nice guy.

Uh-oh. Please read those two sentence you wrote aloud, carefully and slowly, emphasizing the bold.

Do you notice the glaring contradiction? You can’t be angry and hostile and still think you’re nice. Nice people are, by definition, not angry and not hostile.

Also, please remember that if you want to have any success with women: few things turns them off more than guys who call themselves nice. Why? Because in 99% of the cases, guys who call themselves nice aren’t nice. They are deeply insecure, self-centered, and bitter.

Have you watched the final episode of the latest “Black Mirror” series? That genius video game designer repeatedly says to the heroine that he is a nice guy. A minute later, he tries to imprison her for all ages in virtual reality. Because he is lonely and he “just needs someone”, he is misunderstood and underappreciated, but once you get to know him he is actually a nice guy.

I mean, he literally tries to abduct and imprison a woman, and in the same breath he calls himself a nice guy.

Obviously I’m not saying that you’re like him. But that fictional villain is a great warning to us. Some serious issues lurk behind the “nice guy” mentality.