Is this a red flag that I should have seen and then ended?

[Leihla_B]

8 hours ago, fred123 said:

How would u guys handle this?  

 

8 hours ago, fred123 said:

...we were talking on the phone about valentines day. She had told me that this guy back at home booked dinner and a hotel for her and she booked the concert tickets for that evening. I was telling her that I took this girl to a nice...

I wouldn't have this kind of conversation in the first place. Discussing details about what prior men have purchased for me, or what I have bought for them? That's crass. It sounds like a transactional conversation between a hooker and a john.

It appears that you are accustomed to offering relationships based on material transactions. If you believe that the only way to attract women is to imply that you are wealthy and can buy them, then the only women who will be interested in you are the ones who want to use you to be bought. And that's how they will treat you--like an ATM at The Bank of Fred.

Have you ever avoided disclosing your financial position with potential dates and just asked a woman to meet you for a simple cup of coffee to get to know one another as human beings?

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, fred123 said:

I am trying to avoid these women or just not get too emotionally attached to these women.

Maybe I give off a vibe that they can treat me this way.  I'm good guy/gentleman iv been told by many.

I struggle with certain comments as iv said and not sure how to respond or do with that. I guess it makes me feel sad/anxious when they say or do things that show they aren't really feeling me. I get disappointed.

One example of this was that the other woman before we met up we were talking on the phone about valentines day. She had told me that this guy back at home booked dinner and a hotel for her and she booked the concert tickets for that evening. I was telling her that I took this girl to a nice rooftop lunch overlooking barcalano. She was mocking the fact that I took this girl for lunch. I said I actually also took her for dinner and bought her expensive flowers too.  Anyways she was like dinner is better and romantic and seductive.  I was like " ah yes u want to be seduced"

The problem wasn't that I was jealous of this guy perse or knew anything about him or their history.  I did ask at some point later down the line and I was like so what happened with u guys/why u stop dating and she was kinda like " yh it's fine we are all good" she gave me a funny brush off answer that implied it was complicated or maybe the distance was the reason why they don't date. I dunno.

Anyways what annoyed me was the fact that she was trying to say that this guy had booked all these things yet she paid for the concert tickets. Yet she never paid for anything for me.  Should I have pushed her to book something for us then called her out on her hypocrisy?

How would u guys handle this?  

Sorry it's another thing that bugged me

By not dating her?

Fred, at some point you've got to develop an I-don't-take-crap barrier so you don't end up in these messes which revolve around me, me, me, me on the part of the women. Discussions of the airport run, Indiana Jones style vape trail, best deals on concert tickets, deconstructing the ex's menu of date choices down to her superior taste in men - the two of these dates together would constitute a long, long movie script.

You simply make a mental note that in future when I hear statements like this I walk away because this inauthenticity and sense of entitlement is not attractive.

[fred123]

11 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Then why do you keep trying to date women who aren’t like that with you?🤔

Thanx everyone for their input.

I think my brain gets obsessive and I hate that and I don't know why I get attached so quickly. I know I shouldn't. I guess a part of me trys to rationalise or project my interest on to them. So for example the example about th3 girl asking me for vapes and a lift to the airport, I countered that by her phone calls and her initiating texts when on vacation and when she came back. So I assumed she was really into me with her actions despite those two things she asked for. 

Many statements make me feel uneasy and I don't know whether it's my issue or they are actually being rude and it's their fault. Reading interest levels are also very hard for me.

I need to do better you are right and walk away from the first sign of disrespect. I don't know why I didn't take the requests for airport drops and buying vapes as a dealbreaker.

Tbf even on my dates she would ask me to buy her cigarettes and vapes whilst I was waiting for her to arrive. 

So when a girl talks about things/dates she has been on with other guys before isn't that a normal thing sometimes both parties talk about or?

Also is everyone saying that there is no need to call a girl out at the early stages? U just say hi thanx for the date but I'm not feeling we are romantically compatible?

No need to talk about or explain what things she has said or done to make u feel uneasy?

 

 

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, fred123 said:

Also is everyone saying that there is no need to call a girl out at the early stages? U just say hi thanx for the date but I'm not feeling we are romantically compatible?

This is exactly what you say.  And if they push for more details, give them a non-answer.  The phrase "it's not you, it's me" exists for a reason

[fred123]

On 9/9/2024 at 2:19 AM, Gebidozo said:

Not necessarily. Some women go slower than that, some faster. People are different.

 

Again, not necessarily. It depends on a myriad of other factors besides the degree of attraction. Maybe those guys were more active. Maybe they coerced her. Maybe she was drunk or in a bad mood. Maybe she was just experimenting. Maybe she was hurt and wants to take things slower now. Maybe she just had such a phase. 

 

Ok il give u an example. On a first date we were in the back of someone's car and there were 4 of us. So I suggested she sit on my lap so we could all fit in. She didn't really want to. I felt offended (afterwards she said it was cos she didn't want to be riding my d*** on the first date).  

A couple of dates after I mentioned to her that I have never been on a 10 hour first date before implying we must have got on well and that I must have liked her.  She replied with a comment saying "have you not? Iv been on 48 hour first dates before"

I then asked how how does that work.

She said "if I vibe with the guy we then go on a road trip" 

I felt like rubbish when she said that, I guess it meant she didn't feel the vibe with me on the first date and then I started to compare myself with the other guys she felt vibes with. And then I felt like she probably slept with them on the 48hr first date, yet made me feel like shite for her sitting on my lap cos she felt like she was riding me on the first date.

So it's things like this I don't know if I should feel the way I do or if it's normal for a girl to respond like this. I'm just confused.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, fred123 said:

So for example the example about th3 girl asking me for vapes and a lift to the airport, I countered that by her phone calls and her initiating texts when on vacation and when she came back. So I assumed she was really into me with her actions despite those two things she asked for. 

If she was making a lot of contact, she probably was into you.  But even if she thinks you're amazing, if you don't like her behaviour you should not keep asking her out

[Gebidozo]

25 minutes ago, fred123 said:

So when a girl talks about things/dates she has been on with other guys before isn't that a normal thing sometimes both parties talk about or?

Exactly - when both parties want to talk about that. Volunteering such information one-sidedly is rude and insensitive, unless it is intended to be a comparison in your favor. It is particularly crass when the intention is the opposite. I would immediately stop dating a woman who compares me unfavorably to an ex.

 

31 minutes ago, fred123 said:

Also is everyone saying that there is no need to call a girl out at the early stages? U just say hi thanx for the date but I'm not feeling we are romantically compatible?

Exactly. It’s not our place to judge people. If you don’t like a girl, don’t date her, period. There is absolutely no need to prove to her or to yourself that she is a villain.

 

34 minutes ago, fred123 said:

No need to talk about or explain what things she has said or done to make u feel uneasy?

Sure, you can mention that. I remember I once briefly dated a girl who was about to move out of her ex’s place. A couple of months later, she was still there and she lied about that. She wanted to date me exclusively, but I said, “Sorry, you’re hot and great in bed, but lying about still being together with an ex is kind of a deal breaker to me, so I can’t have a committed relationship with you at this point, in fact let’s just stop the whole thing”.

[Gebidozo]

33 minutes ago, fred123 said:

So it's things like this I don't know if I should feel the way I do or if it's normal for a girl to respond like this. I'm just confused.

From my perspective, it looks like both of you were acting immaturely, were obsessed with petty competition, had no chemistry and didn’t click.

Personally, I don’t understand why you’d be offended by her not sitting on your lap in the first place, and why you’d be jealous of some ex of hers on whose lap she did sit or whatever. Why do you care what she did with others? If she makes you feel good, date her. If she doesn’t, don’t date her.

You seem to seek validation from comparison. Conversely, that invites comparison not in your favor. Your insecurity is precisely what makes people like that girl boast about some guy with whom she instantly went on a 48 hour trip or some such.

[fred123]

10 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Exactly - when both parties want to talk about that. Volunteering such information one-sidedly is rude and insensitive, unless it is intended to be a comparison in your favor. It is particularly crass when the intention is the opposite. I would immediately stop dating a woman who compares me unfavorably to an ex.

 

Exactly. It’s not our place to judge people. If you don’t like a girl, don’t date her, period. There is absolutely no need to prove to her or to yourself that she is a villain.

 

Sure, you can mention that. I remember I once briefly dated a girl who was about to move out of her ex’s place. A couple of months later, she was still there and she lied about that. She wanted to date me exclusively, but I said, “Sorry, you’re hot and great in bed, but lying about still being together with an ex is kind of a deal breaker to me, so I can’t have a committed relationship with you at this point, in fact let’s just stop the whole thing”.

So if on a first date the girl drops the fact that she went on a date a few days ago whilst on vacation but they didn't hook up how would u respond? Cos it was weird that she just volunteered that to me.

I mean she had just asked before hand how many girls I was talking to and she said she was only talking to one guy. Then mentioned the date she had a few days ago but made sure that I knew they didn't hook up.

[fred123]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

From my perspective, it looks like both of you were acting immaturely, were obsessed with petty competition, had no chemistry and didn’t click.

Personally, I don’t understand why you’d be offended by her not sitting on your lap in the first place, and why you’d be jealous of some ex of hers on whose lap she did sit or whatever. Why do you care what she did with others? If she makes you feel good, date her. If she doesn’t, don’t date her.

You seem to seek validation from comparison. Conversely, that invites comparison not in your favor. Your insecurity is precisely what makes people like that girl boast about some guy with whom she instantly went on a 48 hour trip or some such.

Well I guess the reason why I would get offended is cos I would assume she doesn't like me, esp say for example she has no problem sitting on a lap of another guy she is into. What does that say about me then?

[Gebidozo]

45 minutes ago, fred123 said:

Well I guess the reason why I would get offended is cos I would assume she doesn't like me, esp say for example she has no problem sitting on a lap of another guy she is into. What does that say about me then?

It says that you’re insecure and seek validation from comparisons to others. You shouldn’t care at all what she did or didn’t do with other guys, it has nothing to do with you.

It’s strange that you use the word “offended” to describe your emotion. There is nothing to be offended by here. If that girl keeps talking about other guys and compares them favorably to you, just don’t date her. There is no reason to take it personally. She is not obliged to be into you. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, fred123 said:

Ok il give u an example. On a first date we were in the back of someone's car and there were 4 of us. So I suggested she sit on my lap so we could all fit in. She didn't really want to. I felt offended (afterwards she said it was cos she didn't want to be riding my d*** on the first date).  

You were offended because a woman you've just had a first date with didn't want to get in a situation which was so very clearly unsafe?   Overcrowded car, with people she barely knows, heading god knows where and sitting on your lap?   Have you no concept that a woman's personal safety is more important than your ego?

You sir, are the problem.  

 

Edited September 10 by basil67

[Leihla_B]

3 hours ago, fred123 said:

So when a girl talks about things/dates she has been on with other guys before isn't that a normal thing sometimes both parties talk about or?

No, it's just a setup for comparison. Think. It makes you feel lousy for good reason. It positions you to try to 'outperform' men from her past, and there's no other purpose for it.

Quote

Also is everyone saying that there is no need to call a girl out at the early stages? U just say hi thanx for the date but I'm not feeling we are romantically compatible?

No need to talk about or explain what things she has said or done to make u feel uneasy?

Yes, thank them for the date and walk away. You can't talk someone into suddenly possessing new values that she doesn't even comprehend. You can't transform a user into suddenly becoming ethical and less self-interested. Explanations just leave you open to being manipulated while she pretends to understand and agree, even while she has her eyes on your credit card. Skip that, move forward, and hold out for only dating women who are mature enough to have developed a decent set of values that they already live by. Head high, and respect yourself.

[Gaeta]

11 hours ago, fred123 said:

She said "if I vibe with the guy we then go on a road trip" 

I felt like rubbish when she said that, I guess it meant she didn't feel the vibe with me on the first date and then I started to compare myself with the other guys she felt vibes with.

If a man would tell me on a first date that he ups and go on road trips with strangers he meets on the Internet, I would not be jealous, I would be completely turned off. That would tell me he's up for fun in the moment and nothing else. He will use me and discard me. 

What are the qualities you are looking for in a woman? Do you know what a down to earth woman sounds like? Are you trying to date much younger women?

[fred123]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

You were offended because a woman you've just had a first date with didn't want to get in a situation which was so very clearly unsafe?   Overcrowded car, with people she barely knows, heading god knows where and sitting on your lap?   Have you no concept that a woman's personal safety is more important than your ego?

You sir, are the problem.  

 

I understand that. Yes it's my ego probably. I don't want to be that guy- sexond option etc when I know she treats guys she likes differently that's all

[fred123]

13 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

It says that you’re insecure and seek validation from comparisons to others. You shouldn’t care at all what she did or didn’t do with other guys, it has nothing to do with you.

It’s strange that you use the word “offended” to describe your emotion. There is nothing to be offended by here. If that girl keeps talking about other guys and compares them favorably to you, just don’t date her. There is no reason to take it personally. She is not obliged to be into you. 

Yes true I understand

[fred123]

14 hours ago, basil67 said:

If she was making a lot of contact, she probably was into you.  But even if she thinks you're amazing, if you don't like her behaviour you should not keep asking her out

Yes that's why I was confused. She seemd really into me spending hours on the phone talking and initiating and always called back when I called her.

 

[fred123]

11 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

No, it's just a setup for comparison. Think. It makes you feel lousy for good reason. It positions you to try to 'outperform' men from her past, and there's no other purpose for it.

Yes, thank them for the date and walk away. You can't talk someone into suddenly possessing new values that she doesn't even comprehend. You can't transform a user into suddenly becoming ethical and less self-interested. Explanations just leave you open to being manipulated while she pretends to understand and agree, even while she has her eyes on your credit card. Skip that, move forward, and hold out for only dating women who are mature enough to have developed a decent set of values that they already live by. Head high, and respect yourself.

The funny thing I noticed about dating and women is that they do treat men differently when they like them. The values do change. Iv been on both sides and seen it. A girl who is into a guy wouldn't say or talk like that. Even I'm sure she knows this too. She even said herself if she had a crush on a guy she would be happy to get her wallet out

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, fred123 said:

The funny thing I noticed about dating and women is that they do treat men differently when they like them. The values do change

Fred, values don't change. A woman changing her values depending on the man she meets - is a woman with NO values.

A good person does not play with people or take advantage of them even when they're not interested in them. It's called having integrity. When a good person comes across a man she does not feel strongly attracted to, or the attraction faded, she doesn't try to 'use' him. She is honest and forward and tell him she's not feeling it and she wishes him luck. 

[Leihla_B]

1 hour ago, fred123 said:

...A girl who is into a guy wouldn't say or talk like that. Even I'm sure she knows this too. She even said herself if she had a crush on a guy she would be happy to get her wallet out

She just showed you that she's not even dating material for you. So why bother questioning when you can just walk way and find better women to date?

You get too hung up on the WHY behind rudeness instead of rejecting people who are rude. That's like preventing yourself from reaching your destination by stopping in the street to ask every person who hustles you for money WHY they are doing that.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, fred123 said:

Yes that's why I was confused. She seemd really into me spending hours on the phone talking and initiating and always called back when I called her.

 

She WAS into you.  But by the end of a whole weekend together, she was no longer into you.     

We can like someone at a surface level, but the more we get to know them, we can start to recognise incompatibilities or annoyances.  This is completely normal in the 'getting to know you' process....and it's what we're trying to teach you about women.  Just because you are into them at first, it doesn't mean you have to stay when you find things about them which you don't like.

[FredEire]

On 9/8/2024 at 7:26 PM, Gebidozo said:

OP, this is not the first woman who has treated you this way. There are older topics of yours where you recount spending loads of money on some barely known girls, having been talked to disrespectfully, being humiliated, and so on.

Don’t you think that, rather than trying to figure out precise descriptions and motivations of those women’s actions, it would be a good time to start pondering why those things keep happening to you?

Yeah right, it's clear at this point it's some kind of cycle for OP. He keeps being attracted to and attracting women who like to toy around with unassertive men, they keep entertaining him for a while because they sense at the moment he's likely to give them what they want be it lavish holidays or running to buy a vape in the middle of the night.

[bpb2017]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:33 PM, fred123 said:

Before our first date we talked on the phone and texted frequently. 

She one day asked me for a favour and I said what's that's.

She said if I could send/buy a vape to her house.

She also asked me if I could drop her to the airport to her vacation at 3am. I genuinely think she was being serious.

Why would this girl have the audacity to ask me this?!

 

Wow I almost admire the audacity on that girl. 

Ubereats for a vape is testing the water, eventually it will be asking for your login so she can order chinese or pizza every other day when her friends are around.

You haven't even gone out on a date yet. Imagine what it would be like later.

Is she hot? Doesn't matter give it a pass.

[FredEire]

28 minutes ago, bpb2017 said:

Wow I almost admire the audacity on that girl. 

Ubereats for a vape is testing the water, eventually it will be asking for your login so she can order chinese or pizza every other day when her friends are around.

You haven't even gone out on a date yet. Imagine what it would be like later.

Is she hot? Doesn't matter give it a pass.

Yeah, I think when girls "joke" about sending you their IBAN so they can buy something or getting them food on an app it's not usually a joke, it's a test to see how gullible and willing to blow your money on them you are.

[balletomane]

19 hours ago, fred123 said:

The funny thing I noticed about dating and women is that they do treat men differently when they like them. The values do change. Iv been on both sides and seen it. A girl who is into a guy wouldn't say or talk like that. Even I'm sure she knows this too. She even said herself if she had a crush on a guy she would be happy to get her wallet out

A person who is happy to be manipulative and use other people for their own gain doesn't suddenly develop a completely new set of morals when they're attracted to somebody. Their character and values remain exactly the same. The only difference will be the techniques they use to get what they want. Sometimes they might try and manipulate others through being very charming, sometimes by being very critical, but it's still the same callous attitude at the root.

You said you balanced this woman's demands with the fact that she spoke on the phone with you a lot, and concluded that she must be into you. The question you need to ask yourself is this: why would you even WANT the interest of someone who was demanding vapes and treating you like a personal taxi service before you'd even met? This makes it seem like you have no standards at all and you'll date anyone who is vaguely willing. You need to respect yourself and be a whole lot more selective. Ask yourself what qualities you would value most in a partner, and go from there.