Gebidozo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 My fiancée’s best friend has been married for five years; they have a daughter. Her relationship with her husband seems to be deteriorating further and further. He frequently spends entire nights elsewhere, either drinking with friends all night or, according to him, going to a nearby hotel because he’s too drunk or tired to take a cab home. She says she is 100% certain he’s been cheating on her. They haven’t had sex in one year. She earns more money than him, works hard, and takes care of their daughter. But they live in a house his parents bought, and she says she doesn’t divorce him yet because she is afraid it would be too hard for her to support her daughter on her own. She tried talking to him several times, he refused to communicate, was grumpy and angry. I said that she’d better divorce him, he is a lousy husband who’s making her life miserable. My fiancée thinks that her friend should give her husband a chance and “wait till he becomes kinder and more mature”. I said, “what if that never happens?”, and she said, “Well, I just can’t advise my friend to divorce, if I do and they do divorce, I’ll feel like I’ve destroyed a family”. I said, “Would it be better to destroy your friend’s chance for happiness with a better man?”. She said, “I don’t know, but I can’t push her towards divorce”. Anyway, I’m not sure who is right here. Maybe I’m wrong. Would love to know your opinions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Whether you or your fiancee are correct in your personal debate really isn't part of the equation, but I think you're both wrong. The husband isn't going to change and divorcing would be wrong because the friend is in the wrong headspace for divorce right now. Your only role in this would be to offer a spare room for the friend and her daughter if she needs it. But the woman in question needs to make her own decision as to what is right for her at the time. And if hanging on a bit longer until her daughter is older is what she needs to do, then that's the right thing for her. She can always change her mind when she's ready. It's not at all uncommon for people to stay in a marriage because they feel tied by family commitments and/or financial reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 You & your lady should not express any opinion to her friend. A dear friend of mine is going through an awful divorce after 35 years of marriage. This is what I told her: " It's your marriage & your choice. I will always support you. Right now while you are getting divorced I will dutifully tell you he's an a$$ & you are making the best decision getting rid of him. If in the future you change your mind & decide to take him back, I will forget I ever said anything negative about him & will support your decision. You have to live with him (or not). I don't. I'm team you. Period." 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, d0nnivain said: You & your lady should not express any opinion to her friend. A dear friend of mine is going through an awful divorce after 35 years of marriage. This is what I told her: " It's your marriage & your choice. I will always support you. Right now while you are getting divorced I will dutifully tell you he's an a$$ & you are making the best decision getting rid of him. If in the future you change your mind & decide to take him back, I will forget I ever said anything negative about him & will support your decision. You have to live with him (or not). I don't. I'm team you. Period." Ah, to have a friend who simply supports ❤️ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 It's never a good idea to get in the crossfire of an arguing couple. Be supportive but don't give advice. Instead suggest marriage counseling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 8 hours ago, basil67 said: Whether you or your fiancee are correct in your personal debate really isn't part of the equation, but I think you're both wrong. The husband isn't going to change and divorcing would be wrong because the friend is in the wrong headspace for divorce right now. Your only role in this would be to offer a spare room for the friend and her daughter if she needs it. But the woman in question needs to make her own decision as to what is right for her at the time. And if hanging on a bit longer until her daughter is older is what she needs to do, then that's the right thing for her. She can always change her mind when she's ready. It's not at all uncommon for people to stay in a marriage because they feel tied by family commitments and/or financial reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. Why do you think the husband isn’t going to change? Also, I think that staying in an unhappy, loveless marriage purely for financial reason is wrong… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 5 hours ago, d0nnivain said: You & your lady should not express any opinion to her friend. A dear friend of mine is going through an awful divorce after 35 years of marriage. This is what I told her: " It's your marriage & your choice. I will always support you. Right now while you are getting divorced I will dutifully tell you he's an a$$ & you are making the best decision getting rid of him. If in the future you change your mind & decide to take him back, I will forget I ever said anything negative about him & will support your decision. You have to live with him (or not). I don't. I'm team you. Period." My lady is pretty much doing the same. She is just there for her friend. I do think she’s being a good friend, but I’m just awfully annoyed by that guy’s behavior and feel like smacking him in the face… I shouldn’t butt in, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 (edited) By the way, update: the wife cheated on her husband with her ex-boyfriend because she is desperate for some love and attention and, in plain words, sex… Also, it’s revenge cheating, quid pro quo, eye for an eye 😪 Edited March 26 by Gebidozo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 30 minutes ago, Gebidozo said: … I shouldn’t butt in, right? Correct. There is no safe space in that mess for you. Stay out of it. Think whatever you want; just don't say anything. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Please don't take sides. Once they make up everything you say can be used against you. Other than supportive "sorry this is happening", stay in your own lane. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 You don't butt in because your fiancee's friend is not going to be persuaded by the logic of an outsider. The friend is in shock and in denial right now. Totally makes sense. She is in that hard place of coming to terms with the failure of the relationship that she had the most hope in--her marriage. She's having to deal with thoughts of "did I misread him?" and "was the entire marriage a mistake" or "did I contribute to his behavior"? It takes time to work through those questions. Fiancee's friend has to on her own get to the point where she feels life with drinker-cheater is better than life with absent drinker-cheater. But doing so requires her to face the loss--the loss of her marriage dream, the loss of hope in her husband. BTW: the drinking is enough of a problem by itself before we even get to the likely cheating. Intellectually I agree with your thinking--strongly so--but it's beside the point. We don't get out of a marriage because of logical thinking. How we feel and how ready we are to say no to bad treatment matters far more. Fiancee's friend is a long way from being ready to leave. So yes, stay out of it. You'll only waste time and energy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 12 hours ago, Gebidozo said: Anyway, I’m not sure who is right here. Maybe I’m wrong. Would love to know your opinions. Since this is more nuisance, annoyance, and incompatibility (as opposed to abuse, violence, and danger) there isn't "right" or "wrong" here. There are choices and outcomes (including for your fiancee). The outcomes are inherently unforseeable for normal human beings. An effort by your wife to urge the woman to separate might result in them staying together,which might result in happiness or in additional misery. Similarly urging her to stay together might result in the couple separating all the more quickly, with similar unpredictable results in terms of happiness. (And the converse of both of these statements is naturally true as well). I think your fiancee's perspective is that if she avoids tinkering with the inherent chaos of the situation, she avoids lingering guilt over a potential negative outcome. Since it's her friend (not so much yours), I would respect her choice in the matter. Edited March 26 by mark clemson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 There's no right or wrong. The issue is their problems are becoming your problems if you and your GF are arguing about their relationship. It's better to focus on why this is mirror of your own relationship issues. "I’m not sure who is right here. Maybe I’m wrong." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShyViolet Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 It's honestly not your business and no good can come from you getting in the middle of it. As a general rule it's best to stay out of other people's relationships. This is not your problem to solve. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 6 hours ago, Gebidozo said: Why do you think the husband isn’t going to change? Also, I think that staying in an unhappy, loveless marriage purely for financial reason is wrong… OK, I will say "it's highly unlikely that he will change". And kindly, what you (or I) think of her decision to stay is of no consequence....especially as she's not the one posting for advice. I'm not joining you in your judgement from the sidelines 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) In your March 1 thread "MFM threesome", you and your GF were having significant problems of your own. These people seem to represent horses you two are betting on to see who's right. But try to focus more on the inner workings of your own relationship and whatever power struggles exist. Edited March 27 by Wiseman2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpacalia Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Yes. That happened with a family member and I had to make sure not to form an opinion of her husband and voice it to her. I did say that if I continue to see her in pain that I am going to voice a strong 2 cents. They chose to stay married. Try to keep your relationship out of it. You can consider yourself lucky enough not to be in their situation. You never know what you will tolerate until you live it. I can’t tell you how many people end up going back to people who are terrible to them because someone just told them to move on. There could be many layers to this, it really is not for any of us to say, but I think there is likely a middle ground here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 hours ago, Gebidozo said: I’m just awfully annoyed by that guy’s behavior and feel like smacking him in the face… I shouldn’t butt in, right? Nothing good can come from this. Do I think he is going to change? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Do I think she should wait around while he stays out all night and does whatever he is doing with the hope that one day he will mature, adjust his values, see her worth, and treat her with respect? No, I do not. But, I think she has to come to that realization herself. I would encourage her to seek individual counselling. I would continue to love and support her as a friend, but if/when it becomes too hard to watch - you may need to take some distance for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 hours ago, Gebidozo said: By the way, update: the wife cheated on her husband with her ex-boyfriend because she is desperate for some love and attention and, in plain words, sex… Also, it’s revenge cheating, quid pro quo, eye for an eye 😪 All the more reason to keep your distance, because this is a powder keg waiting to explode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gebidozo said: Why do you think the husband isn’t going to change? What incentive does he have to change? People can change but character generally doesn’t change. He has been dishonest, untrustworthy, disrespectful, unfaithful, the list goes on and on… In order to change, he would have to be motivated to change and “be a better person.” I haven’t heard anything that would indicate that he understands there is a problem, that he has any remorse, or that he is motivated to recommit/change his behavior. Add to that, she has had a revenge affair and the work to heal this relationship just got 10x harder. If I was a betting person, I would say that there is too much water under this bridge. If he is going to change, he is going to use this experience to be a different partner for a different person. Or, he will continue with these very dysfunctional and harmful relationship patterns… But, something healthy generally doesn’t grow out of a relationship that is this unhealthy - at least not without a lot of humility, vulnerability, work, therapy, and time. Edited March 27 by BaileyB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Sorry, the above was said with the assumption that he is actually cheating on his partner which I realized in retrospect is not confirmed. That said, I still think the situation is unlikely to change given that he seems to lack an understanding that his behavior is a problem, he does not appear to show remorse or a desire to change. And, when he learns of her infidelity, this is likely to push him even further away… It may even prompt him to end the relationship. Women are far more likely than men to want to salvage a marriage after infidelity - and he already has one foot out the door… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: In your March 1 thread "MFM threesome", you and your GF were having significant problems of your own. These people seem to represent horses you two are betting on to see who's right. But try to focus more on the inner workings of your own relationship and whatever power struggles exist. Definitely focusing on that, things are much better now. Concerning that other couple, my fiancée is quite cool about it, just being sympathetic to her friend, I’m the one who is, perhaps, too outraged for some reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, BaileyB said: Sorry, the above was said with the assumption that he is actually cheating on his partner which I realized in retrospect is not confirmed. That said, I still think the situation is unlikely to change given that he seems to lack an understanding that his behavior is a problem, he does not appear to show remorse or a desire to change. And, when he learns of her infidelity, this is likely to push him even further away… It may even prompt him to end the relationship. Women are far more likely than men to want to salvage a marriage after infidelity - and he already has one foot out the door… Well, I changed… I used to be a cheater when I was young. At first I was just holding the view that cheating isn’t wrong. Then, after I realized it was wrong, I began to think that it was a chronic disease or a curse. But gradually, over the course of years, I understood that cheating was my choice, a lousy, horrible choice, but one I can stop making. And I stopped. What if he really changes too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpacalia Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Gebidozo said: Well, I changed… I used to be a cheater when I was young. At first I was just holding the view that cheating isn’t wrong. Then, after I realized it was wrong, I began to think that it was a chronic disease or a curse. But gradually, over the course of years, I understood that cheating was my choice, a lousy, horrible choice, but one I can stop making. And I stopped. What if he really changes too? Maybe you're so wrapped up in your infidelity baggage for guilty conscience towards what you put your previous partner through. Awful thing to face when you have regrets. Just don't project this onto your friend's situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gebidozo Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Alpacalia said: Maybe you're so wrapped up in your infidelity baggage for guilty conscience towards what you put your previous partner through. Awful thing to face when you have regrets. Just don't project this onto your friend's situation. I definitely have regrets, that’s why I don’t want other, younger men to repeat my mistakes. That guy is only 27 years old or so. I wish I could just reach out to him, explain to him how awful cheating is, how he’s going to ruin relationships and lose people and soil his own soul and be tortured with remorse. But he isn’t my friend, we’ve never even met. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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