Perspective

[Gaeta]

It would help if you were honest with yourself. 

You have a list of like 10 requirements to feel strong attraction. Every time we suggested you dropped a few of those requirements you right away accused us of suggesting you date someone you don't find attractive so it's very important for you to have those 10 requirements present otherwise you feel nothing. 

You don't feel little attraction, you don't feel moderate attraction. You feel huge attraction or you feel nothing. 

My theory #1: You sound like someone who's been desensitized. Like someone who watches a lot of porn. At first the regular one-on-one porn is enough to get you going, then with time it's not enough anymore and you need more provocative porn. At the end you find nothing sexually exciting unless it's a gang bang with women with big lips, big butt, big boobs. Normal regular women don't do it for you anymore. 

My theory #2: You  have a very low testosterone level. At your age majority of hetero men would feel an attraction just coming across a woman with and hour glass shape. No matter if she's 5'3'' or 5'8'', no matter if she's 25 or 45, no matter if she's sweeping the floor at walmart or the manager at walmart. Your testosterone might be low if you don't feel attraction or if you need to have a barbie flashed before your eyes to feel some attraction. Regular men of your age feel sexual attraction through the day toward all types of women, it's encoded in men to guarantee our species survival. 

[FredEire]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yea I am thinking a one on one coffee is a better idea thought my friend says I should take her to the event. This coffee date has been long postponed.

Yeah it depends on the person. I had a friend who was a serial dater and would always bring girls to social events and usually slip off with her towards the end of the night. When I did this I would just get lost in conversation with other people and end up barely talking to my date. For most people one on one is much better.

[ZA Dater]

44 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yeah it depends on the person. I had a friend who was a serial dater and would always bring girls to social events and usually slip off with her towards the end of the night. When I did this I would just get lost in conversation with other people and end up barely talking to my date. For most people one on one is much better.

Yea I am going to take the advice, she seemingly want's to meet for coffee just need to actually make that date. I'll suggest sometime next week and be fairly assertive about days that may work. One thing I have learnt is it's better to be a bit decisive rather than too easy going. 

 

[FredEire]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yea I am going to take the advice, she seemingly want's to meet for coffee just need to actually make that date. I'll suggest sometime next week and be fairly assertive about days that may work. One thing I have learnt is it's better to be a bit decisive rather than too easy going. 

 

Yes I think you're taking the best approach with that.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

It would help if you were honest with yourself. 

You have a list of like 10 requirements to feel strong attraction. Every time we suggested you dropped a few of those requirements you right away accused us of suggesting you date someone you don't find attractive so it's very important for you to have those 10 requirements present otherwise you feel nothing. 

You don't feel little attraction, you don't feel moderate attraction. You feel huge attraction or you feel nothing. 

My theory #1: You sound like someone who's been desensitized. Like someone who watches a lot of porn. At first the regular one-on-one porn is enough to get you going, then with time it's not enough anymore and you need more provocative porn. At the end you find nothing sexually exciting unless it's a gang bang with women with big lips, big butt, big boobs. Normal regular women don't do it for you anymore. 

My theory #2: You  have a very low testosterone level. At your age majority of hetero men would feel an attraction just coming across a woman with and hour glass shape. No matter if she's 5'3'' or 5'8'', no matter if she's 25 or 45, no matter if she's sweeping the floor at walmart or the manager at walmart. Your testosterone might be low if you don't feel attraction or if you need to have a barbie flashed before your eyes to feel some attraction. Regular men of your age feel sexual attraction through the day toward all types of women, it's encoded in men to guarantee our species survival. 

Neither is true. I am just defeated basically years of never really getting anywhere don't help, went shopping, saw about 6 people I'd say are attractive but again I have sort of accepted none will be interested.

I don't like plastic ladies for what it's worth. Or people who absolutely cake their faces in makeup. 

For me I want someone to share life with and experience life with, the physical is tied in with that. I enjoy sharing and giving. 

 

[Gebidozo]

10 hours ago, Gaeta said:

My theory #2: You  have a very low testosterone level. At your age majority of hetero men would feel an attraction just coming across a woman with and hour glass shape. No matter if she's 5'3'' or 5'8'', no matter if she's 25 or 45, no matter if she's sweeping the floor at walmart or the manager at walmart. Your testosterone might be low if you don't feel attraction or if you need to have a barbie flashed before your eyes to feel some attraction. Regular men of your age feel sexual attraction through the day toward all types of women, it's encoded in men to guarantee our species survival.

Amen to that. Doesn’t need to be hourglass shape. And I’m pushing 50 here.

One of the reasons I’m repelled by the OP’s speeches is that he never gives a normal description of an attraction. It’s always some abstract talk about some cartoony slim models. If only he said something like, “Talked to a girl in a bar, so cute, just wanted to kiss her right there”, something that guys actually feel naturally…

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Neither is true. I am just defeated basically years of never really getting anywhere don't help, went shopping, saw about 6 people I'd say are attractive but again I have sort of accepted none will be interested.

I don't like plastic ladies for what it's worth. Or people who absolutely cake their faces in makeup. 

For me I want someone to share life with and experience life with, the physical is tied in with that. I enjoy sharing and giving. 

 

You don’t sound like you were actually attracted to those 6 people. And it’s ridiculous, to be attracted to 6 women in a shop just like that. You talked to 6 ladies at once in a shop and felt attraction to all of them? Sorry, I don’t believe that. It just doesn’t happen.

What you are describing is not attraction. Call it aesthetic evaluation, objective appreciation, anything, but it’s not normal attraction from a dude to a girl. Attraction happens like this: you meet 1 girl (not 6), you guys talk, and after a while you begin to feel that you want to kiss her on the lips. You don’t give a flying duck how tall she is or how many kids she has or whether she can understand your latest insight on the crisis in the Middle East. It just happens.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am just defeated basically years of never really getting anywhere don't help, went shopping, saw about 6 people I'd say are attractive but again I have sort of accepted none will be interested.

And why would they be interested?  You're objectifying six random strangers who don't know you from a bar of soap.   

[basil67]

15 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

My theory #2: You  have a very low testosterone level

I'm also thinking that asexuality is a possibility.  

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I'm also thinking that asexuality is a possibility.  

I think he is just so in his head - so very analytical and rigid in his thinking that he wouldn’t realize that he could actually be attracted to a woman because he’s so busy trying to attract the woman that he thinks he wants. And then, should he actually attract a woman - that same overthinking and analytical nature is what ultimately sabotages the possibility of a relationship… 

Edited April 4 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

48 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

You don’t sound like you were actually attracted to those 6 people. And it’s ridiculous, to be attracted to 6 women in a shop just like that. You talked to 6 ladies at once in a shop and felt attraction to all of them? Sorry, I don’t believe that. It just doesn’t happen.

What you are describing is not attraction. Call it aesthetic evaluation, objective appreciation, anything, but it’s not normal attraction from a dude to a girl. Attraction happens like this: you meet 1 girl (not 6), you guys talk, and after a while you begin to feel that you want to kiss her on the lips. You don’t give a flying duck how tall she is or how many kids she has or whether she can understand your latest insight on the crisis in the Middle East. It just happens.

Attraction might happen like that for you but it does not happen that way for me. My point with the 6 ladies is my criteria cannot so rigid if I can find that number of people relatively easily.

What you describe is lust not attraction in my opinion. 

Again everyone has a different experience here.

[ZA Dater]

20 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I think he is just so in his head - so very analytical and rigid in his thinking that he wouldn’t realize that he could actually be attracted to a woman because he’s so busy trying to attract the woman that he thinks he wants. And then, should he actually attract a woman - that same overthinking and analytical nature is what ultimately sabotages the possibility of a relationship… 

Not a case of thinking, I know what I like, you forget I have met people I found attractive overall and did want to sleep with. The problem is those who want to sleep with me are not attractive in that way. Not sure what Is so wrong with this to be honest?

You right I am not going to deviate too much from what I find attractive, why should I really? 

Interesting to me the basic underlying msg here seems to be, sleep around as much as possible.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

Amen to that. Doesn’t need to be hourglass shape. And I’m pushing 50 here.

One of the reasons I’m repelled by the OP’s speeches is that he never gives a normal description of an attraction. It’s always some abstract talk about some cartoony slim models. If only he said something like, “Talked to a girl in a bar, so cute, just wanted to kiss her right there”, something that guys actually feel naturally…

Firstly I don't go to bars and when I did, I didn't fit in very well. It also became very apparent the "attractive" people there were not interested in a non drinker non fun guy. Sure I could have wanted to kiss them but why think that when it's clear it's not possible.

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Interesting to me the basic underlying msg here seems to be, sleep around as much as possible.

How are you getting this exactly? Aside from the fact that you are attempting to digress into another point of discussion…

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't go to bars and when I did, I didn't fit in very well. It also became very apparent the "attractive" people there were not interested in a non drinker non fun guy.

Well sure, because you are in a BAR. 

That’s like saying that you went to a dog park to pick up women and nobody gave you any attention - when you did not have a dog!

As we have said countless times, you do not need to drink alcohol to find a date. But sure, let’s debate the same defunct talking point… My best friend is married to a man who does not drink alcohol. She loves a glass of wine. Another friend is not a drinker - her husband has a beer every now and again. Two marriages - one person is a drinker, the other never touches alcohol. They have happy marriages - it hasn’t impeded them in any way.

Perhaps the reason that you didn’t get any attention is not because you don’t drink, but because you are not fun (your words), you lack confidence, and probably some basic social skills (in a social setting of this type). 

Edited April 4 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

38 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Well sure, because you are in a BAR. 

That’s like saying that you went to a dog park to pick up women and nobody gave you any attention - when you did not have a dog!

As we have said countless times, you do not need to drink alcohol to find a date. But sure, let’s debate the same defunct talking point… My best friend is married to a man who does not drink alcohol. She loves a glass of wine. Another friend is not a drinker - her husband has a beer every now and again. Two marriages - one person is a drinker, the other never touches alcohol. They have happy marriages - it hasn’t impeded them in any way.

Perhaps the reason that you didn’t get any attention is not because you don’t drink, but because you are not fun (your words), you lack confidence, and probably some basic social skills (in a social setting of this type). 

You right I am not fun. I am glad there are two examples of non drinkers unfortunately my experience has been different, not drinking in a social setting is seen as unattractive some of the time.

But point taken its probably not much of an issue if I stay away from certain social settings.

 

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

How are you getting this exactly? Aside from the fact that you are attempting to digress into another point of discussion…

Well it seems to some just sleep with anyone who will sleep with me based on some inherent need to sleep with people I am not interested in that way. 

My friends sleep around, they are older than me and in most instances it's people significantly younger than them. I have seen that dynamic play out in social interactions. Again mutual attraction, it must be nice to be wanted in that way as a guy. Again something I haven't experienced and in reality am unlikely to. 

Its ok to feel sexually unattractive, for me it's better than believing some nonsense about how handsome I am and people would really value me, this is the rubbish I get told by those close to me, I suspect to try make me feel less hopeless.

I have just learnt the people I find attractive will give me attention based on how I can help them but it's always going to be another guy the sleep with, just how it is. Do I feel bad about it, sure but there is also nothing I can do about it either.

[BaileyB]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well it seems to some just sleep with anyone who will sleep with me based on some inherent need to sleep with people I am not interested in that way. 

Nobody has said that. 

Your friends have the right to have casual sex with whomever they choose. It’s not a reflection of their value or your lack of value - it’s just casual sex. It may not be for you and it’s not for me, but people have casual sex all the time and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. 

You can continue to seek the attention of the beautiful people by attempting to “be her friend” or “offering to help” as you may, but as we know from past experience it is not sustainable because true relationships are not transactional in this way and it does not bring any lasting happiness…

 

[basil67]

53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

for me it's better than believing some nonsense about how handsome I am and people would really value me, this is the rubbish I get told by those close to me, I suspect to try make me feel less hopeless.

There certainly are people out there who would really value you - but they are probably the same people who you don't value.   You actually value them so little that you don't even see them as human enough to be part of the equation.  

53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I have just learnt the people I find attractive will give me attention based on how I can help them but it's always going to be another guy the sleep with, just how it is. Do I feel bad about it, sure but there is also nothing I can do about it either.

For someone to be romantically and sexually attracted to you, they need to see you as both a romantic and as a sexual being.  But you don't see yourself this way, therefore you don't give out those vibes and they see you as a friend.  Thing is, other people see us in much the same way we see ourselves.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

There certainly are people out there who would really value you - but they are probably the same people who you don't value.   You actually value them so little that you don't even see them as human enough to be part of the equation.  

For someone to be romantically and sexually attracted to you, they need to see you as both a romantic and as a sexual being.  But you don't see yourself this way, therefore you don't give out those vibes and they see you as a friend.  Thing is, other people see us in much the same way we see ourselves.

This is probably the truth, probably a fundamental problem too. No response to me coffee meet up request, lets see how many days it takes to get a reply. 

[FredEire]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

There certainly are people out there who would really value you - but they are probably the same people who you don't value.   You actually value them so little that you don't even see them as human enough to be part of the equation.  

For someone to be romantically and sexually attracted to you, they need to see you as both a romantic and as a sexual being.  But you don't see yourself this way, therefore you don't give out those vibes and they see you as a friend.  Thing is, other people see us in much the same way we see ourselves.

That second paragraph is exactly the same as I feel about it.

OP, have you read American Psycho? It's about a man who outwardly is wealthy and has the perfect life but he's so hollow and has such a poor concept of himself as a human being that he is almost like a psychopathic robot, he can't even remember the names of those around him, and it drives him to the point of insanity.

It was an enlightening read for me, I'm sure you'd enjoy it too.

[ZA Dater]

46 minutes ago, FredEire said:

That second paragraph is exactly the same as I feel about it.

OP, have you read American Psycho? It's about a man who outwardly is wealthy and has the perfect life but he's so hollow and has such a poor concept of himself as a human being that he is almost like a psychopathic robot, he can't even remember the names of those around him, and it drives him to the point of insanity.

It was an enlightening read for me, I'm sure you'd enjoy it too.

I will give that a read, sounds like an interesting read. Maybe the trap I have walked into really is to let the opinions of others define me too much and landed up down the extremely lonely path as a result. Its a difficult question to solve really, there are some people, being around them I feel really good, I can drop all the shyness and heck even find some confidence and I often ask myself why that is and I keep coming back to their communication style and engagement and inevitably these people have warm personalities.

Might sound stupid but I tend to show people what I want to show them rather than the whole, again unless there is that particular engaging personality style. Truthfully, one of the most difficult things I face everyday with dating is believing "I can do this". 

[FredEire]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I will give that a read, sounds like an interesting read. Maybe the trap I have walked into really is to let the opinions of others define me too much and landed up down the extremely lonely path as a result. Its a difficult question to solve really, there are some people, being around them I feel really good, I can drop all the shyness and heck even find some confidence and I often ask myself why that is and I keep coming back to their communication style and engagement and inevitably these people have warm personalities.

Might sound stupid but I tend to show people what I want to show them rather than the whole, again unless there is that particular engaging personality style. Truthfully, one of the most difficult things I face everyday with dating is believing "I can do this". 

Yes, I think that thought is a lot more insightful and truthful than most of the others in this thread.

You have to act on the basis that you are going to do whatever you want to do (respecting others of course), and how people react to that and judge you for it really couldn't matter a damn.

For example if you ask a girl out and she ghosts or says no, whatever! You don't know her and she obviously doesn't care too much, so why should you? In life many many people come and go, save the anguish for any real heartbreaks that come along eg a messy divorce.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes, I think that thought is a lot more insightful and truthful than most of the others in this thread.

You have to act on the basis that you are going to do whatever you want to do (respecting others of course), and how people react to that and judge you for it really couldn't matter a damn.

For example if you ask a girl out and she ghosts or says no, whatever! You don't know her and she obviously doesn't care too much, so why should you? In life many many people come and go, save the anguish for any real heartbreaks that come along eg a messy divorce.

True, just feel like I have missed out on so much and that is quite difficult to process a lot of the time, I do try to give the best impression I can but I do think I am somewhat defeated in some respects and maybe people see that. Also because I find so few people attractive when I do find one it becomes a very high stakes game, I really have no room to mess up and then the inexperience I have does not help either as my judgement is off so I end up having to wing it as best I can.

There was a time where being single did not bother me but it does bother me now simply because I am missing out on sharing things. Good example, I'd like to go away for the weekend as a birthday gift to myself but spending weekend alone in a hotel never feels that good, have done it before. 

[FredEire]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

True, just feel like I have missed out on so much and that is quite difficult to process a lot of the time, I do try to give the best impression I can but I do think I am somewhat defeated in some respects and maybe people see that. Also because I find so few people attractive when I do find one it becomes a very high stakes game, I really have no room to mess up and then the inexperience I have does not help either as my judgement is off so I end up having to wing it as best I can.

There was a time where being single did not bother me but it does bother me now simply because I am missing out on sharing things. Good example, I'd like to go away for the weekend as a birthday gift to myself but spending weekend alone in a hotel never feels that good, have done it before. 

We all get older, unfortunately. But if you are 40 now all going well you still have half your life left, and when we're gone there's nothing you can do so you might as well make the best of the time you have.

I too find very few women attractive as in that "wow" factor but I don't have as many rigid requirements in terms of what the girl for me might look like. If there's an amazing chemistry that's the most important factor.

You need to welcome all possibilities into your life with open arms. Right now you have tunnel vision and have a very rigid view of how you want things to play out. But life doesn't give you what you want it gives you what you need, and sometimes that's a kick in the ass so you can learn a lesson.

If you are stuck though it's a clear sign that you are repeating the same old mistakes over and over again and not learning from them.