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ZA Dater
4 hours ago, OKtoday said:

Over time, did you start to find things attractive about your last girlfriend? Maybe you started to see her patience, kindness, thoughtfulness, wanting to be with you attractive???

That was so nice that she baked your first Birthday Cake to make you feel special.

As a friend yes, there was very minimal physical attraction I loved spending time with her though.

 

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basil67
11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well exactly 3 seconds this supports my view which has been roundly criticised that attraction mostly does not build over time.

Given that you're highly visual, I imagine it also takes you only 3 seconds to decide if you'll give someone a chance.  So surely it wouldn't be a surprise that many women do this too.  Also, I can't recall this theory being roundly discounted on your threads.  

I'm an outlier in that it takes me longer to know (I'd need about an hour of conversation), but I'm not caught up in what someone looks like - so I've been quite open to different possibilities

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ZA Dater
Just now, basil67 said:

Given that you're highly visual, I imagine it also takes you only 3 seconds to decide if you'll give someone a chance.  So surely it wouldn't be a surprise that many women do this too

Does not surprise me and supports my point of view which people do not agree with. Actually not as visual as you think I generally notice the way someone speaks first.

This entire thing is why OLD is much more affective for some than others, I still maintain without physical attraction dating cannot work. 

Still undecided about miss coffee meet up, everyone here seems to think it's a bad idea, I look at my other options and there are none really.

 

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basil67
6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Still undecided about miss coffee meet up, everyone here seems to think it's a bad idea, I look at my other options and there are none really.

 

You would be wise to make decisions without getting our feedback first.   Otherwise, you're just up for 7000 more messages and spinning your wheels

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ZA Dater
18 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You would be wise to make decisions without getting our feedback first.   Otherwise, you're just up for 7000 more messages and spinning your wheels

Am more likely to just leave it be. 

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Weezy1973
5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure with confidence this might be possible, assuming I can find any.

You don’t need confidence to ask someone out on a date. You just need to ask them on a date. 
 

 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

After reading all of the comments maybe I am just better off in the friendzone? Maybe I have more to offer there?

Why do you keep asking this question as if it’s some new idea you’ve had? You’ve only done the friendzone thing for, well your whole life I’m guessing, and it’s never ever worked. It’s never made you happy, or less lonely, or made you feel better about yourself. It’s always ended up making you feel worse about yourself. Do you honestly forget your own experiences? 
 

 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well exactly 3 seconds this supports my view which has been roundly criticised that attraction mostly does not build over time.

Again, this has been answered many, many times. Maybe write it down and stick it to your bathroom mirror so you remember it and don’t keep posting the same thing over and over. 
 

There has to be a certain baseline of physical attraction for it to grow. But it can be a rather neutral physical attraction to start that grows into intense attraction over time because of compatibility. 

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ZA Dater
32 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

 There has to be a certain baseline of physical attraction for it to grow. But it can be a rather neutral physical attraction to start that grows into intense attraction over time because of compatibility. 

If you say so, I do not really agree at all in the sense I do not believe someone suddenly becomes hugely attractive because you are simply compatible with them. To me its more likely someone like me gets a tiny bit of attention, enjoys it so much they try and force themselves to overlook a lack of physical attraction because they have no other options.

 

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6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not really agree at all in the sense I do not believe someone suddenly becomes hugely attractive because you are simply compatible with them

In your very long list of requirements, if a woman meets 2-3 requirements, let's say she is slim and very smart & articulate, then you start with that as your base and you build on that. As you spend time with her you discover she has a wicket sense of humor and you love it, then you discover she is kind & generous, then she may not have Taylor Swift baby face but her face becomes beautiful to you. That's how we grow huge attraction, we build it up from a few things we liked from the get go. 

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FredEire

Using an engineer's mindset to figure out dating is like trying to use a teapot made of chocolate to brew yourself a cup of tea. It quickly becomes a mess that makes absolutely no sense because the same rigid rules do not apply.

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Weezy1973
13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

If you say so, I do not really agree at all in the sense I do not believe someone suddenly becomes hugely attractive because you are simply compatible with them.

This happens literally all the time.  I’d say it’s actually pretty much the norm. Intense attraction right off the hop is fine, but most of the time crashes and burns. Attraction is attraction - doesn’t really matter if it’s right away or grows over time. In fact in a study done awhile back one of the biggest predictors of attraction was proximity. We tend to be attracted to people we’re around (and therefore know better) a lot.

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ZA Dater
8 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

In your very long list of requirements, if a woman meets 2-3 requirements, let's say she is slim and very smart & articulate, then you start with that as your base and you build on that. As you spend time with her you discover she has a wicket sense of humor and you love it, then you discover she is kind & generous, then she may not have Taylor Swift baby face but her face becomes beautiful to you. That's how we grow huge attraction, we build it up from a few things we liked from the get go. 

Agree with that but there does need to be some fundamental attraction to start with, cant be a case of very little attraction and hoping that will suddenly grow. What you describe above is how I'd like to think it actually works, my experience unfortunately has been very different to that. 

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ZA Dater
6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Using an engineer's mindset to figure out dating is like trying to use a teapot made of chocolate to brew yourself a cup of tea. It quickly becomes a mess that makes absolutely no sense because the same rigid rules do not apply.

Substitute engineer for finance.

Just about the only thing that does matter is some attraction of some sort, without that its largely pointless?

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ZA Dater
6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This happens literally all the time.  I’d say it’s actually pretty much the norm. Intense attraction right off the hop is fine, but most of the time crashes and burns. Attraction is attraction - doesn’t really matter if it’s right away or grows over time. In fact in a study done awhile back one of the biggest predictors of attraction was proximity. We tend to be attracted to people we’re around (and therefore know better) a lot.

I'd agree with that and it figures why people want to date in the workplace. I do find familiarity does help but of course there are so few people I am around often. The background with the latest interest is she has been around me for around 3 years (she was not single then) but again the professional/private life line is very blurred. When I first met here my first thought was "you are great, not single and I'd have no chance whatsoever even if you were" and this remained until a friend decided to put the crazy idea that maybe I could actually have a chance. I bought into that to some degree but the interaction since then has not really given me any indication of interest. 

Sure I asked her out to a breakfast with my social group (she knows these people well) and she did attend. 

There is probably some analysis paralysis going on here too.

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FredEire
3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Substitute engineer for finance.

Just about the only thing that does matter is some attraction of some sort, without that its largely pointless?

Yes, I agree. You need to be attracted for it to go anywhere.

Someone who is self-loathing, self-pitying, a chronic overthinker who isn't brave about asking women out and constantly assumes the worst isn't going to be very attractive, though.

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16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

cant be a case of very little attraction and hoping that will suddenly grow. 

Who said *very little attraction* I did  not say that. I spoke of *attraction* to 2-3 elements. 

Question: That huge attraction you're talking about, when do you need to feel it? At the moment you see her? after an hour conversation? When exactly do you need to experience that out-of-the-world attraction?

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ZA Dater
1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

Who said *very little attraction* I did  not say that. I spoke of *attraction* to 2-3 elements. 

Question: That huge attraction you're talking about, when do you need to feel it? At the moment you see her? after an hour conversation? When exactly do you need to experience that out-of-the-world attraction?

For me most of it is in conversation and communication, how engaging the free the conversation is. That for me is attractive because that sort of conversation is very comfortable and not forced. 

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Weezy1973
18 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

There is probably some analysis paralysis going on here too.

Ya think?

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2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

For me most of it is in conversation and communication, how engaging the free the conversation is. That for me is attractive because that sort of conversation is very comfortable and not forced. 

But, if she is not tall, slim & beautiful you will not engage in a conversation with her so, it's not true you find attraction through conversation.

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ZA Dater
5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

But, if she is not tall, slim & beautiful you will not engage in a conversation with her so, it's not true you find attraction through conversation.

Well I will I just would not want to date her so yes there does need to be physical attraction of some sort.

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Just now, ZA Dater said:

Well I will I just would not want to date her so yes there does need to be physical attraction of some sort.

No, again not true. You consider *some sort* as weak attraction and you will not be interested in a woman if it's only *some sort*. 

So, would you say you need to experience a huge attraction from the moment you lay eyes on her?

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ZA Dater
2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

No, again not true. You consider *some sort* as weak attraction and you will not be interested in a woman if it's only *some sort*. 

So, would you say you need to experience a huge attraction from the moment you lay eyes on her?

Not really.

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FredEire
6 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

No, again not true. You consider *some sort* as weak attraction and you will not be interested in a woman if it's only *some sort*. 

So, would you say you need to experience a huge attraction from the moment you lay eyes on her?

Yes some sort of attraction and good conversation would probably describe a lot of people, which goes against OPs rigidly specific requirements. He is full of contradictions.

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ZA Dater
14 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes some sort of attraction and good conversation would probably describe a lot of people, which goes against OPs rigidly specific requirements. He is full of contradictions.

Its very subjective there are no real set rules despite what you may think about me being rigid in what I am looking for. Finding is one thing, actually being able to do anything is another so basically this just becomes one giant hurdle. Still have not decided what I am going to do, there is a nice event I could invite her to next week, make it more overt she is coming as my plus 1 but not sure what this really accomplishes because its once again friend zone.

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FredEire
2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its very subjective there are no real set rules despite what you may think about me being rigid in what I am looking for. Finding is one thing, actually being able to do anything is another so basically this just becomes one giant hurdle. Still have not decided what I am going to do, there is a nice event I could invite her to next week, make it more overt she is coming as my plus 1 but not sure what this really accomplishes because its once again friend zone.

You are defeating yourself here. If you like a woman invite her for a coffee or a walk in the park, alone. Of course she is going to think it's friendly if it's a social event. Does being one on one with a woman give you anxiety?

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ZA Dater
6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

You are defeating yourself here. If you like a woman invite her for a coffee or a walk in the park, alone. Of course she is going to think it's friendly if it's a social event. Does being one on one with a woman give you anxiety?

Yea I am thinking a one on one coffee is a better idea thought my friend says I should take her to the event. This coffee date has been long postponed.

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