Why should husbands do to prevent late divorces?

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

One of the things I usually ask when people are telling the horror stories of their spouse is - why would you choose to marry someone like that in the first place?!??!? 
 

I doubt the majority of folks pull a complete 180 after marriage. If your spouse is a nightmare that ignores your needs, you chose to marry that nightmare! I see on social media tons of complaints but rarely to never a mea culpa: yeah there were lots of flags but I chose to ignore them hoping they’d change or; I was so hopped up on sexual attraction I didn’t really care if they’d make a good long term partner or parent etc. Baffling.

People do pull a complete 180 after marriage sometimes. Especially when they marry young. 

[Weezy1973]

44 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

People do pull a complete 180 after marriage sometimes. Especially when they marry young. 

Rarely. Way more likely people marry too quickly after meeting and don’t really know each other well enough before marrying. Also as was mentioned, we all naturally change over time. Perhaps some folks were more patient and understanding early in the marriage and then became less so as the marriage went on. 
 

But anecdotally the women I know who divorced their husbands later in life, excluding the three A’s if divorce (adultery, abuse and addiction) were:

 

1. A friend of mine got desperate towards her mid 30s and married a really good guy, but she wasn’t really attracted to him (she shared later). Got married to him and had a family, but then left him 15 years in. Kids were devastated and dad now is primary caregiver. 
 

2. My sister, who I’ve mentioned, who left her husband and broke up the family for reasons unknown. We’ve talked about it post divorce and she basically just didn’t want to be married to him anymore. He didn’t change, was the same solid husband and dad he’s always been. But she did. 
 

All other divorces I know about involves the three A’s. The lessen is no matter what you do, you can’t prevent a divorce if somebody wants to get a divorce. You also shouldn’t bend yourself into contortions, being someone you’re not just for the sake of the marriage. While compromise is absolutely necessary, acting like someone you’re not is no way to live. 

[mark clemson]

Continuing a relationship boils down to a choice. A relationship can withstand nearly anything (up to and including death, if the remaining partner chooses to not move on) so long as the choice is made to stay in it.

From that perspective, what these husbands could do would be to pay attention to their wives and take steps/do the correct things to ensure the wives don't want/choose to leave. That could encompass a wide variety of possible actions (probably including some non-actions) as each couple has an ultimately unique chemistry.

The flip side of this is that once one partner genuinely and firmly chooses to leave, there may be nothing one can do. People are moving targets and change over time, and the couple may grow in ways that make them genuinely incompatible. People "turn corners" and sometimes choose to take a particular path regardless of what the spouse may want. There may also sometimes be aspects to a partner's psychological makeup that make them "choose" to end a stable situation, as they are unconsciously uncomfortable with it and/or even turn their spouse into a victim of sorts as a resolution to trauma lingering from their family of origin situation.

So it's important to understand your partner, and act accordingly; however even this is not a true guarantee of success.

[MsJayne]

16 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

One of the things I usually ask when people are telling the horror stories of their spouse is - why would you choose to marry someone like that in the first place?!??!? 
 

I doubt the majority of folks pull a complete 180 after marriage. If your spouse is a nightmare that ignores your needs, you chose to marry that nightmare! I see on social media tons of complaints but rarely to never a mea culpa: yeah there were lots of flags but I chose to ignore them hoping they’d change or; I was so hopped up on sexual attraction I didn’t really care if they’d make a good long term partner or parent etc. Baffling.

Yes, it does make you wonder, but it's actually not that baffling. The brain acts in mysterious ways to support a person's distorted view of a potential mate, (extract below is from research findings), and that distortion is maintained throughout the honeymoon period, and by the time the brain's neurotransmitters and hormones return to normal activity it's too late, the person is already in a state of emotional involvement, and the need to avoid emotional distress, (loss of the perceived perfect mate), takes over. Next thing you know there's a debate raging between heart and head. The brain's saying "This person's an a*****e, don't listen to the heart, the heart's an idiot", but the heart's saying, "Nooo, nooo, don't listen to the brain, the brain's a downer who always sees the worst in everyone". The ego also sticks it's nose into the argument but I won't bore on about that. Those people who marry someone totally incompatible with them are usually ruled by their emotions and their egos, even if they're an intelligent person who's successful in other areas of their life. 

"There is also an increase in dopamine and noradrenaline. Dopamine stimulates the reward pathways and increases motivation and obsessive thoughts and behaviours to pursue the love interest. Noradrenaline causes the feelings of euphoria, and the physiological responses of a faster heart rate, butterflies in the stomach and increased energy. At the same time, other brain areas are deactivated. Reduced activity in the frontal cortex reduces negative emotions and judgements. This explains why initially people may be blind to faults in the person they are in love with." 

Edited March 21 by MsJayne

[Lotsgoingon]

OP, these guys were not paying attention to what their wives were saying, saying with words and with body language. 

Their wives may not have shouted and screamed out "I need some changes here or else I'm going to leave." Some women shut down when they feel ignored and unhappy rather than provoke a confrontation. They feel the confrontation has already occurred and the guy has decided not to back down---on whatever matter or decision at issue. And so many guys miss that their spouse has shut down and shut down because of how they believe they’ve been treated.

If a marriage is 50-50, the spouse should get their way on half of the questions the couple has different opinions on.  Like automatically get their way half the time. It's not 50-50 based on who is the better litigant or debater. It's 50-50. And a lot of guys are just louder and more insistent with their voices and they think their ideas are better than their wives' ideas and they think because their wives have gone silent on a matter means they agree with the husband. Not so!

I can recall a time when I dismissed my ex's words on a major matter.  When my ex and I were considering kids, she knew I wanted two. She said she wanted one kid. Repeatedly said this. Said this with with stress in her voice.  As I recall, she said something like, "Can we just have one kid?"

Back then those words of hers sounded to me like she's asking me a question and giving me some authority, right? Well no, she was stating her limit. We separated before having any kids, but looking back, it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS--like insanely obvious-- that my ex could not emotionally handle two kids. One kid would have been her limit (and probably mine as well).  What this means is that I was dismissing what was by far the smartest idea between the two of us. Embarrassing to say, but I was treating her opinion like her saying she wanted to dine at restaurant X as opposed to restaurant Y, my favorite. Oh come on, let's go to Y! 

A better reaction on my part would have been "tell me more!" Stop and listen and ask her to say more. A smart reaction would have been me saying to myself we aren't going to have two children if she only wants one.  But I was in that "my idea is better" mode, which is not the way you can have a happy marriage.

 I'm betting a lot those guys you report on ignored some key information, key reveals, key requests from their spouses, as I ignored my X's words. Do that repeatedly in a number of areas over years and years! 

So we can flip the matter here. Yes, many of us are shocked when a couple married 25 years seems to "suddenly" divorce. What we're ignoring is this: that 25 years of marriage is for more people than we like to admit 25 years of having your ideas and requests dismissed and rejected. 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

2 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

OP, these guys were not paying attention to what their wives were saying, saying with words and with body language. 

Their wives may not have shouted and screamed out "I need some changes here or else I'm going to leave." Some women shut down when they feel ignored and unhappy rather than provoke a confrontation. They feel the confrontation has already occurred and the guy has decided not to back down---on whatever matter or decision at issue. And so many guys miss that their spouse has shut down and shut down because of how they believe they’ve been treated.

If a marriage is 50-50, the spouse should get their way on half of the questions the couple has different opinions on.  Like automatically get their way half the time. It's not 50-50 based on who is the better litigant or debater. It's 50-50. And a lot of guys are just louder and more insistent with their voices and they think their ideas are better than their wives' ideas and they think because their wives have gone silent on a matter means they agree with the husband. Not so!

I can recall a time when I dismissed my ex's words on a major matter.  When my ex and I were considering kids, she knew I wanted two. She said she wanted one kid. Repeatedly said this. Said this with with stress in her voice.  As I recall, she said something like, "Can we just have one kid?"

Back then those words of hers sounded to me like she's asking me a question and giving me some authority, right? Well no, she was stating her limit. We separated before having any kids, but looking back, it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS--like insanely obvious-- that my ex could not emotionally handle two kids. One kid would have been her limit (and probably mine as well).  What this means is that I was dismissing what was by far the smartest idea between the two of us. Embarrassing to say, but I was treating her opinion like her saying she wanted to dine at restaurant X as opposed to restaurant Y, my favorite. Oh come on, let's go to Y! 

A better reaction on my part would have been "tell me more!" Stop and listen and ask her to say more. A smart reaction would have been me saying to myself we aren't going to have two children if she only wants one.  But I was in that "my idea is better" mode, which is not the way you can have a happy marriage.

 I'm betting a lot those guys you report on ignored some key information, key reveals, key requests from their spouses, as I ignored my X's words. Do that repeatedly in a number of areas over years and years! 

So we can flip the matter here. Yes, many of us are shocked when a couple married 25 years seems to "suddenly" divorce. What we're ignoring is this: that 25 years of marriage is for more people than we like to admit 25 years of having your ideas and requests dismissed and rejected. 

 

 

This is beautiful. Summed it up perfectly!

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

OP, these guys were not paying attention to what their wives were saying, saying with words and with body language. 

Their wives may not have shouted and screamed out "I need some changes here or else I'm going to leave." Some women shut down when they feel ignored and unhappy rather than provoke a confrontation. They feel the confrontation has already occurred and the guy has decided not to back down---on whatever matter or decision at issue. And so many guys miss that their spouse has shut down and shut down because of how they believe they’ve been treated.

If a marriage is 50-50, the spouse should get their way on half of the questions the couple has different opinions on.  Like automatically get their way half the time. It's not 50-50 based on who is the better litigant or debater. It's 50-50. And a lot of guys are just louder and more insistent with their voices and they think their ideas are better than their wives' ideas and they think because their wives have gone silent on a matter means they agree with the husband. Not so!

I can recall a time when I dismissed my ex's words on a major matter.  When my ex and I were considering kids, she knew I wanted two. She said she wanted one kid. Repeatedly said this. Said this with with stress in her voice.  As I recall, she said something like, "Can we just have one kid?"

Back then those words of hers sounded to me like she's asking me a question and giving me some authority, right? Well no, she was stating her limit. We separated before having any kids, but looking back, it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS--like insanely obvious-- that my ex could not emotionally handle two kids. One kid would have been her limit (and probably mine as well).  What this means is that I was dismissing what was by far the smartest idea between the two of us. Embarrassing to say, but I was treating her opinion like her saying she wanted to dine at restaurant X as opposed to restaurant Y, my favorite. Oh come on, let's go to Y! 

A better reaction on my part would have been "tell me more!" Stop and listen and ask her to say more. A smart reaction would have been me saying to myself we aren't going to have two children if she only wants one.  But I was in that "my idea is better" mode, which is not the way you can have a happy marriage.

 I'm betting a lot those guys you report on ignored some key information, key reveals, key requests from their spouses, as I ignored my X's words. Do that repeatedly in a number of areas over years and years! 

So we can flip the matter here. Yes, many of us are shocked when a couple married 25 years seems to "suddenly" divorce. What we're ignoring is this: that 25 years of marriage is for more people than we like to admit 25 years of having your ideas and requests dismissed and rejected. 

 

 

Well said, and it’s great that you’re able to critically evaluate your own past behavior and learn from your mistakes. 

None of my friends I mentioned in the initial post has expressed any such sentiments (at least not to me). I doubt whether they even understood that they may have done something wrong.

I do think that many men have the tendency of being too authoritative and dismissive of the spouse’s opinion, exactly as you and others have described in this thread. 

[Lotsgoingon]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I do think that many men have the tendency of being too authoritative and dismissive of the spouse’s opinion, exactly as you and others have described in this thread. 

Yeah so many guys (and yep I've been in this category too) really don't get that those "little" suggestions their wife is making are actually HUGELY important requests.  

Edited March 22 by Lotsgoingon

[Gaeta]

I think one of the common denominators is having married too young. I was 17 when I met my ex-husband, he was my first boyfriend, and we  married I was 20. I was nowhere equiped to pick myself a compatible companion. I fell in love with a handsome man in a uniform, it never crossed my mind we needed common interests & common core values. It was a very long 15 years of me feeling invisible. I gave him the map to save our marriage. Kiss me good bye in the morning, take me out on a date once in a while, let's find an activity or a sport we could enjoy together. He thought that was silly and we didn't need that. 

In those late divorces there is a lot of 'feeling invisible' to the man we married.

 

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I think one of the common denominators is having married too young. I was 17 when I met my ex-husband, he was my first boyfriend, and we  married I was 20. I was nowhere equiped to pick myself a compatible companion. I fell in love with a handsome man in a uniform, it never crossed my mind we needed common interests & common core values. It was a very long 15 years of me feeling invisible. I gave him the map to save our marriage. Kiss me good bye in the morning, take me out on a date once in a while, let's find an activity or a sport we could enjoy together. He thought that was silly and we didn't need that. 

In those late divorces there is a lot of 'feeling invisible' to the man we married.

 

Sorry you had to go through that.

What you’re saying fits with what I’ve observed, and also with what I have experienced myself.

[CollinW]

Preventing a divorce should be a shared responsibility. Women too often want change but want the man to do all the work. Examples are in this thread alone, women saying they told the husband they want to go on dates, but aren't actually saying they planned any dates they wanted their husband to go on. 

Which is why divorce is such an attractive option for women. It's a situation where they have no responsibility but get all of the benefits from the men courting them. 

And that mentality is prevalent in their marriages. I've seen it in every failed marriage in all generations. Women stop caring about their husband's needs or start making their lives a living hell, only to turn around and expect them to make their lives easier or wine and dine them when they're bored. If they don't then they try to outsource it by being single.

I have seen situations with women being married to useless men and I feel for them. But for the most part men are reciprocal. A competent man will go broke bending over backwards for a woman that makes him feel special. I don't see the same in reverse. 

[NuevoYorko]

I'm pretty sure that women have NOT "always" been the initiators of divorce.   

I'm older than many people here.  My father was a doctor.   My parents' friends in the community were doctors and other professionals. 

The wives tended to stay home once kids came along,  but before the kids, the wives worked their butts off to help their husbands establish their careers.  

I'm mostly familiar with the families of doctors.  

My mother, too, worked as a nurse and then did assisting and front office work when our dad established his practice.   

Their marriage lasted their lifetimes.   Many, many of the husbands in their social groups, however,  dumped their wife and started all over with a much younger person once their careers were on track.

I cannot think of a single instance in my childhood, which was full of kids with divorced parents, where the mom initiated the divorce.  Even if she'd wanted to, it would seem like a bad idea because for the most part they were taking care of several kids (most families seemed to have more kids back then - 3 - 5)  and did not have much work experience.

Also, these women generally got really badly shafted in the divorce settlements.  They did receive alimony and there was child support, but their standard of living would go down drastically.  So would that of the children from those marriages, because with zero exceptions (in my personal experience, which is very finite) was there split custody.  The fathers would get the kids a couple of weekends a month at most.  Again, these were almost all doctors and they were going to be "on call" or whatever, so ... 

Anyway - historically,  this phenomenon of women being the big initiators is fairly new.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, CollinW said:

Examples are in this thread alone, women saying they told the husband they want to go on dates, but aren't actually saying they planned any dates they wanted their husband to go on. 

Yes, I have complained that my ex-husband wouldn't go on dates...I didn't realise that some would think that I needed him to plan it all.  

I'm a do-er and I came up with loads of ideas but he didn't want to leave the house.  It's pretty s*** going to the movies on your own because your husband won't go with you.  Please seek clarifications rather than make negative assumptions

Edited April 13 by basil67

[Els]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:21 AM, basil67 said:

Yes, I have complained that my ex-husband wouldn't go on dates...I didn't realise that some would think that I needed him to plan it all.  

I'm a do-er and I came up with loads of ideas but he didn't want to leave the house.  It's pretty s*** going to the movies on your own because your husband won't go with you.  Please seek clarifications rather than make negative assumptions

Agreed, it's such a baffling assumption to make that it honestly says a lot about the person making it, IMO. It's kinda like assuming that a person who complained about their partner not wanting to have sex was just expecting the partner to initiate and didn't do any of it themselves, because they didn't specifically state in the same post that they initiated sex and were turned down. Or assuming that a person who complained about their partner not wanting to talk had not tried initiating a conversation because they didn't mention that in their post.

One would think that if someone felt there was important information missing, the sensible thing to do would be to ask for clarification. Unless, of course , the assumer was nursing a gigantic agenda...

[Gebidozo]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:02 AM, CollinW said:

Which is why divorce is such an attractive option for women. It's a situation where they have no responsibility but get all of the benefits from the men courting them. 

This is wrong on so many levels. Divorce is painful to anyone with a heart, regardless of gender. Divorce is like surgery without anesthesia. It’s just crazy to assume it could be an “attractive option” to any normal person. It’s usually the only remaining option, the desperate option, the lesser evil to choose. 

What’s the difference between the “no responsibility” situations for divorced men and women? If anything, women have more responsibility after divorce, as they are the ones who typically have to raise the kids. And if there were no kids, men have way more remaining years to produce them in the next marriage than women, and therefore less stress.

 

On 4/14/2024 at 3:02 AM, CollinW said:

A competent man will go broke bending over backwards for a woman that makes him feel special. I don't see the same in reverse. 

I see the reverse all the time. Women trying their best to make the marriage work, husbands ignoring their needs. It’s like a standard pattern that I notice everywhere.

[Oldenuff2know]

I left my husband after 32 years of marriage. He cheated twice (or more), but I stayed. There were two straws that broke the camel's back for me. After spending years going to marriage counseling (and him not participating fully) and working on myself, I said to him one day "I've done this, and this, and this, and this to improve myself and become a better mother, wife, person in general, what do you think you could do to improve yourself?" His answer was "Nothing. I am fine the way I am." I knew it was over then. However, I stayed. Then I went through breast cancer treatment and never felt so alone in my life. He was not there for me at all, and yet guilted me for staying home for my last week of radiation treatment instead of going out of town with him! 

And yes, I do think a woman gets to a certain age, looks back on her life and what she's put up with, and decides not to take any crap anymore from anyone.