How do you recover from child abuse?

[a4a]

So- A- what is your interest in this topic? Do you have something you'd like to share or are you just interested in the discussion?

 

Just wondering at the typical goings on of a relationship with one abused spouse and one "normal" spouse. Also starting to wonder if it is more common for an abused person to seek a "pampered" person. Just curious is all. Nothing all important for me to ponder on a personal level. Just a half assed observation that peaked my interest.

[blind_otter]

Curious to know if the posters on this thread informed your spouses about past abuse?

 

I have to since I have stuff like flashbacks while having sex, which would be weird if you didn't know what was going on. Or sometimes in certain positions something will trigger a memory/re-experience of trauma and I have a flashback right after sex, which is the MOST fun!

 

I don't chose one type of person. I just wrote out all the abuse histories of all my partners and realized that I almost always pick "damaged" men, which is a risky move, since they react just as much as I do, in different sometimes more violent or dangerous ways.

 

I've had problems with their style of conflict, but honestly most of them actually DID understand the extent of the damage I've had and allowed to be done to me, and they all knew how to give me space when I needed it.

 

My issue has always been an anxious/ambivalent attachment type where I cling and push away at the same time.

[Becoming]

My issue has always been an anxious/ambivalent attachment type where I cling and push away at the same time.

 

Ditto.

 

A part of me is like that little child who just wants someone to love and adore her (and is, of course, disappointed because no one can really do that to the degree she constantly wants).

 

Another part of me, the adaptive part, is strong and fiercely independent. "I can take care of myself, then. I don't need you." Which is not altogether true.

 

So when H doesn't give me that affection I crave, disappears emotionally whenever he's busy, I freak and wonder why I'm married if I keep getting hit with silence/non-presence and his crap lying all over the place to boot.

 

I need a lot of order and control over my time and environment that a relationship, especially with children, really messes with.

[Becoming]

Well, I wanted to and it felt good. I just couldn't "get there"

 

I hate this! It's like climbing a mountain, getting ready to hit the crest to see the incredible vista from the top, sprinting toward the zenith in anticipation, only to suddenly stop and pick some wildflowers, go back down the mountain to look at an interesting fungi on a tree, generally diddle around and never see what you came for. After awhile you wonder why you even bother mountain climbing!

 

In some ways it helped and didn't that H saw it as a challenge.

[a4a]

Becoming do you think regardless of your past abuse issues if you would still want and crave the attention that you are asking your husband for?

 

Is he making enough effort for even a "normal" person to find acceptable?

 

Does he attempt to adapt to your needs at all?

 

s***, I have to adapt to my H's needs all the time, understand his new found ability to communicate with me. "nobody ever talked to me the way you do and I am learning how to talk"....... you know it takes effort on both parts... you may lack or need in some areas.... and he lacks or needs in some areas.

 

Regardless if it is caused from your past, a medical disorder, or a entrenched need in your personality.... he also needs to adapt and attempt to fulfill your needs. I am so sick of the idea that we are screwed up and must fully change ourselves to be happy in our own skin. Partners need to learn to comprimise on both sides.....not just one.

[blind_otter]

I need a lot of order and control over my time and environment that a relationship, especially with children, really messes with.

 

Funny, my mom always says this. She stresses me having order, schedules, routines in my life and says that people like us need this. I suppose because, lacking that in childhood, you lack the ability to establish an internal sense of order so you make up for it by creating it outside of yourself.

 

The best, easiest times for me are after I meditate when I simply accept that I just am, rather than trying to constantly make myself work towards something. I constantly have to remind myself that the only thing that exists is right now. NOW. Ok, NOW. Wait....ok....NOW.

 

And sometimes now is not so fun, sometimes it's huge fun. I just wish it could be one way for a while. I dunno. Part of my healing is coming from learning how to surf the waves, rather than get jumbled about and crushed against the rocks.

[Becoming]

Becoming do you think regardless of your past abuse issues if you would still want and crave the attention that you are asking your husband for?

 

Is he making enough effort for even a "normal" person to find acceptable?

 

Does he attempt to adapt to your needs at all?

 

s***, I have to adapt to my H's needs all the time, understand his new found ability to communicate with me. "nobody ever talked to me the way you do and I am learning how to talk"....... you know it takes effort on both parts... you may lack or need in some areas.... and he lacks or needs in some areas.

 

Regardless if it is caused from your past, a medical disorder, or a entrenched need in your personality.... he also needs to adapt and attempt to fulfill your needs. I am so sick of the idea that we are screwed up and must fully change ourselves to be happy in our own skin. Partners need to learn to comprimise on both sides.....not just one.

 

Yup, agree wholeheartedly. You and I have similar H-types (however they got there), which is why I could feel for your VDay episode. They're good guys, but lousy at showing affection in ways we crave. Now that I know about your past, I understand better about why you reacted as you did--that part of you that didn't get that kind of affection is practically starving for it. That's why you got married. Otherwise, why bother? You can live well on your own, thank you very much. Have done it all your life.

 

But there's something in us that wants to be able to relax into love, to not be always wondering when the other shoe's gonna drop when things are good, to be able trust that there will be care there for us in the ways we need it.

 

I'm currently mad at my smart-cookie therapist. I talked about thinking about separating from H yesterday in therapy, an issue which has caused me no small amount of consternation because I do love the guy; I just can't take the way he treats me. And somehow she wants to convince me that it's all me and not being able to see past the beliefs I've constructed about the world and other people based on my past. It was like someone telling me this isn't really happening to me; it's just my screwed up perception.

 

Well, ok. My perceptions are screwed up. Enough for me to always wonder if it's not just me and then to not listen to what I know I need. But as Otter said in one of her thread titles, just because I'm crazy doesn't mean you're not crazy, too.

 

So if there is no reality, if it's all just perceptions, what the hell are we doing in therapy? Just changing MY perception? Which really isn't helpful to those of us whose parents or rapists kept trying to convince us that what was happening wasn't really happening--it was just our perception that was messed up. F that!

[a4a]

Yup, agree wholeheartedly. You and I have similar H-types (however they got there), which is why I could feel for your VDay episode. They're good guys, but lousy at showing affection in ways we crave. Now that I know about your past, I understand better about why you reacted as you did--that part of you that didn't get that kind of affection is practically starving for it. That's why you got married. Otherwise, why bother? You can live well on your own, thank you very much. Have done it all your life.

 

But there's something in us that wants to be able to relax into love, to not be always wondering when the other shoe's gonna drop when things are good, to be able trust that there will be care there for us in the ways we need it.

 

I'm currently mad at my smart-cookie therapist. I talked about thinking about separating from H yesterday in therapy, an issue which has caused me no small amount of consternation because I do love the guy; I just can't take the way he treats me. And somehow she wants to convince me that it's all me and not being able to see past the beliefs I've constructed about the world and other people based on my past. It was like someone telling me this isn't really happening to me; it's just my screwed up perception.

 

Well, ok. My perceptions are screwed up. Enough for me to always wonder if it's not just me and then to not listen to what I know I need. But as Otter said in one of her thread titles, just because I'm crazy doesn't mean you're not crazy, too.

 

So if there is no reality, if it's all just perceptions, what the hell are we doing in therapy? Just changing MY perception? Which really isn't helpful to those of us whose parents or rapists kept trying to convince us that what was happening wasn't really happening--it was just our perception that was messed up. F that!

 

:lmao: ( I am not laughing at you, but this hit me funny bone)

 

I did not marry my H for the attention.... hell if I wanted the gifts and attention I would have stayed with my X. I married him because of his great qualities and ability to use tools to build my farm Also great in the sack! I actually did marry him for legal reasons as well...... I was not about to shack up and throw my hard work down the drain if separation did happen down the road. It just made more sense to do that, even with the lease drawn up ect when we were shacked up. My money was going into his property, no doubt I will, and want to protect myself from his blood sucking sister that would attempt to scoop it all away if something were to happen to him. And of course I do love him...... so marriage was logical.

 

I expect to be treated a certain way..... this is not a sudden change in me. I expect and want a partner that meets my needs, I expect myself to try as hard as I can to meet their needs.

 

I don't give a s*** if Dr. Phil raised me or not. If the V-day thing happened to one of his kids.... hell yes they too would be bent out of shape Worked late, and no thought or care put into it....... come on. Those are not high or abnormal expectations stemming from abuse. I bet Dr. Phil took his wife out to dinner and probably bought her a nice gift That is just a spouse not putting effort into a relationship......not huge outrageous expectations.... really, lets get real about it. He f-ed up I got pissed and with good right to do so........ not a overwhelming need for attention from lack of attention as a child.

 

If I wanted to be ignored by him, I would live alone.

 

If I wanted to run a business alone I would do so, I certainly would not put up with a half assed business partner, nor be told that the business was going down the tubes because it's my fault because I expect my business partner to actually do some work and that is wrong to have those expectations..... please tell me where they hand out pay checks for not doing work? Marriage is not all that different than running a business.

[Mz. Pixie]

[quote=a4a

 

I expect to be treated a certain way..... this is not a sudden change in me. I expect and want a partner that meets my needs, I expect myself to try as hard as I can to meet their needs.

 

I don't give a s*** if Dr. Phil raised me or not. If the V-day thing happened to one of his kids.... hell yes they too would be bent out of shape Worked late, and no thought or care put into it....... come on. Those are not high or abnormal expectations stemming from abuse. I bet Dr. Phil took his wife out to dinner and probably bought her a nice gift That is just a spouse not putting effort into a relationship......not huge outrageous expectations.... really, lets get real about it. He f-ed up I got pissed and with good right to do so........ not a overwhelming need for attention from lack of attention as a child.

 

If I wanted to be ignored by him, I would live alone.

 

Marriage is not all that different than running a business.

 

Whew- exactly!!

 

That is how I felt about my first marriage. By golly, if I was going to have to take care of my kids all the time, I was going to do it by myself all the dang time- without his mess to clean up- and without him bothering me for sex I didn't want to have with him. Because we were emotionally disconnected.

 

I expect to be treated a certain way. I don't think that my expectations are too high at all. I fully think that anyone that loves me should be more than willing to meet those needs, of course unless they are drastically ill or incapacitated. Because I'm going to do everything I can to meet theirs and that's just the way it's suposed to work!

 

I don't particularly think I pick certain types- especially not to date. Maybe to marry though- because first H's family was squeeky clean as well. But my dating background ran a wide variety as far as childhoods.

 

I think my need for affection is just a need for affection. I'm also a Scorpio and we're highly sexual. My H is a Scorpio as well, as affection is one of his big needs as well.

[blind_otter]

Anyone who has no expectations is either lying to themselves, or have no prior experience in anything an dhave existed thusfar in a bubble. It's human nature, a tool by which we judge our environment and process information.

[a4a]

How dare any of us have expectations!

 

Your getting what you need but not what you want..... well poop on that too!

 

 

I am just so sick of people saying that you are out of line, or you are a mental case/ immature brat for having expectations from your SO/partner. I don't care if it is holding hands, sex, or helping out around the house.. you got to try to meet in the middle. Not like you are asking them to cut their damn head off for you and do a jig in the front yard holding it.

 

Buy me some diamond earrings you bastard... my abused inner child wants 'em! < this is a joke > but thinking that I could use this now to really get what I want from H (evil thought)

 

Your perception of what you want or need are not always out of line, and not caused by some experience of the past that has damaged you for life.

 

Becoming I am not picking on you at all. As a matter a fact I think you know exactly what I am saying. (just to be sure that you did not think my posts were directed to you).

[blind_otter]

Your perception of what you want or need are not always out of line, and not caused by some experience of the past that has damaged you for life.

 

I had a big long thing written out and realized I was being defensive even though I have nothing to defend and the only attack that would occur would happen because I assume from the get go that people are out to hurt me. I do this because my mother did this to me from the time I was at the breast. If you ever learn how to establish healthy interactions, you have to teach yourself and that's hard.

[a4a]

I had a big long thing written out and realized I was being defensive even though I have nothing to defend and the only attack that would occur would happen because I assume from the get go that people are out to hurt me. I do this because my mother did this to me from the time I was at the breast. If you ever learn how to establish healthy interactions, you have to teach yourself and that's hard.

 

Yes it is very hard. But it is much easier to not be so guarded. Not every person is going to harm you or is out to harm you. Easier said than done of course.

 

a4a- just ate some awesome chinese food......burppppp.

[Becoming]

Yeah, I got it, a4a. I know. Which is why I admire your approach.

 

In a sense it IS me thinking that if I have expectations that I'm just gonna be disappointed or hit, though this wasn't even conscious until fairly recently.

 

I was taught having any expectations is wrong if they don't match the "authorities'." Which automatically turned me anti-authoritarian, of course. Except that somewhere else down inside there's still this more primitive belief operating, too, which I'm still confronting.

 

And y'all are helping. Thanks.

 

I think I try to be too accommodating until I figure out after the fact that I've given away the store. And I need to stand up more to lots of folks instead of assuming beforehand that there's just no one interested in my needs so why bother?, only to have to yell for them later.

[blind_otter]

I am terrified to let down my guard. Moreso now than when I was f***ed up. I think the only reason I was able to get into relationships previously was because I was using.

[a4a]

Yeah, I got it, a4a. I know. Which is why I admire your approach.

 

In a sense it IS me thinking that if I have expectations that I'm just gonna be disappointed or hit, though this wasn't even conscious until fairly recently.

 

I was taught having any expectations is wrong if they don't match the "authorities'." Which automatically turned me anti-authoritarian, of course. Except that somewhere else down inside there's still this more primitive belief operating, too, which I'm still confronting.

 

And y'all are helping. Thanks.

 

I think I try to be too accommodating until I figure out after the fact that I've given away the store. And I need to stand up more to lots of folks instead of assuming beforehand that there's just no one interested in my needs so why bother?, only to have to yell for them later.

 

Hell yes when you are told ::

 

Your expectations are unreasonable.

You only have these needs because you are damaged goods.

You need to get over the fact that you want things that you cannot have.

You do not have the right to have what you want or need because of the above.

 

WTF? Sounds like wave 2 of abuse in a twisted ass way to me.

Be good and sit in the corner..... shut up and enjoy that corner, that is all you get and deserve.

 

As far as I know this is not a dress rehearsal.... life is it. I will not sit in the corner. Now don't make me bust out the Tater!

[Mz. Pixie]

Now don't make me bust out the Tater!

 

 

I think many times comments are based on the perception that we have to take what we can get.

 

Ummmm, sorry, honey, I'm not desperate- never have been is what I want to scream.

 

When I was divorcing I actually had someone say, "But why won't you give him another chance, since he's finally waking up"

 

Ummmm, I 've given him 15 or 20 chances- what is the likelihood that he's going to about face at this point??

[Becoming]

a4a--You always crack me up. :lmao:

 

No, no! Not . . . THE TATER! :eek:

 

And good for you, Otter, for seeing you . . .

realized I was being defensive even though I have nothing to defend and the only attack that would occur would happen because I assume from the get go that people are out to hurt me.

 

This is exactly what I do. I brace myself for what I assume will be a coming attack when it's not.

 

It is hard to learn another way. Some days I go through all this emotional gymnastics and I'm exhausted just from having to argue with myself! :rolleyes:

 

I do pretty well until H withdraws for days to weeks at a time for what are "good reasons" but which are intolerable for me. I can do 2 days no contact, but the 3rd there'd better be something for me or I start jumping up and down for attention. Is this reasonable? I'm getting the impression it's not. I should just go to my corner and enjoy it. Oh, puhlease. I told my H today at lunch that I could have been having an A for the past two years for two nights out of the week and he'd never have known. And he agreed. (When I start looking at apartments, he finally catches a clue he might want to take me to lunch on his day off. :laugh: ).

 

And, really, a4a, you in diamond earrings. :lmao:

[blind_otter]

I get exhausted arguing with myself as well. Sometimes I wonder if that's what kept me in bad relationships, and in this lingering blah de blah with recent ex. I can out think myself like a champ.

[a4a]

I should just go to my corner and enjoy it. Oh, puhlease. I told my H today at lunch that I could have been having an A for the past two years for two nights out of the week and he'd never have known. And he agreed. (When I start looking at apartments, he finally catches a clue he might want to take me to lunch on his day off. :laugh: ).

 

And, really, a4a, you in diamond earrings. :lmao:

 

Yeah man, I told the H the same thing..... said well, I guess when you come home and find a strange man in bed with me..... you will be fixin your own dinner that night

 

Just put Rent.com on your screen and let him see it

 

There comes a point in time when you realize that you are good enough to trust. You finally can trust yourself, then start trusting others.

 

And what you cannot picture the monkey in a couple of 1 carat diamond earrings.... I may be short and hairy but I got good taste!

[Becoming]

And what you cannot picture the monkey in a couple of 1 carat diamond earrings.... I may be short and hairy but I got good taste!

 

Maybe some danglies to go with the glasses. A little Harry (or is it hairy:rolleyes: ) Winston. Then monkey could be on the red carpet Oscar fashion re-cap shows.

 

There comes a point in time when you realize that you are good enough to trust. You finally can trust yourself, then start trusting others.

 

Seriously, this is good stuff. When/how did that start happening for you? Or are you like my sister; you've just always had that innate sense? I'm ready for it, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't mean a change in my marital status, my job, and my state of residence.

 

And just thinking about all that overwhelms me.

[a4a]

 

 

Seriously, this is good stuff. When/how did that start happening for you? Or are you like my sister; you've just always had that innate sense? I'm ready for it, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't mean a change in my marital status, my job, and my state of residence.

 

And just thinking about all that overwhelms me.

 

I think I figured that out in my late teens and early 20's. It took one bad abusive relationship for me to finalize the decision that I am ok. Also I think it helps if you have strength in a career or other pursuit also.

 

Maybe you need to stop thinking about it and start living a bit. (not trying to offend you at all) Start doing what you want with your life. You know what you want but are afraid of the unknown? What would happen if you just really said what was on your mind without putting blame on your H?

 

I would PM you but it seems that yours is not operational.

 

a4a- gotta get me butt to work.

[enki]

Is there some way to teach a spouse about abuse (short of abusing them)

You would think that they have such groups? MC are of no help? Or are some spouses thinking it is just a big excuse for your unwanted behavior?

 

Probably the best objective assistance regarding most problems facing child abuse survivors is J. Patrick Gannon's book, "Soul Survivors." (New York: Prentice Hall 1989)

 

He has specialised in treatment of abuse survivors for most of his life, so has a huge data base. The book is not only a comprehensive guide to most aspects of the subject. It also contains enough data for each survivor to be able to find where their own experiences fit into the spectrum of abuse.

 

Chapter 8 of that book contains thirty pages of sensible objective advice for partners and lovers of abuse victims.

 

Also starting to wonder if it is more common for an abused person to seek a "pampered" person.

 

I almost always pick "damaged" men, which is a risky

and

My issue has always been an anxious/ambivalent attachment type where I cling and push away at the same time.

 

Ditto.

 

One of the less reported problems in abuse cases is what the criminologists call"Parentizing," where the parent not only abuses the child but then expects that same child to behave as the parent's parent! Obviously it is a common cause of juvenile delinquency. Most of the people on this thread have averted to it indirectly, although you Otter made it quite explicit, and in your #46 Becoming, you mentioned that your mother's apology almost said, "Sorry, but forget it. I'm a good girl now, Becoming so you have to forgive me."

 

Perhaps recognition of our being forced into this wierd parental role may help us gain a clearer perspective of what else was wrong with our childhoods.

 

More important, it wakes us up to our habit of picking up "lame dogs," and it IS a habit, ingrained since childhood.

 

There are two phases to our abuse. First is the abuse itself, and its after-effects. Second is the trouble we get into as adults by trying to be 'saviours' for others. Inevitably these 'victims' learn to take advantage of us, until we un-learn our parents' inappropriate programming.

 

It was like someone telling me this isn't really happening to me; it's just my screwed up perception.

 

Becoming, would you please do me a favour? Next time you meet smart-cookie therapist, take in a chalk-board and scratch your fingernails down it. Then tell 'smart-cookie' that that's exactly the effect she has on me!

 

I know you have a love-hate relationship with her, but that quoted comment is about as smart as asking a rape victim what she did to invite the crime.

Everybody constructs belief systems based on their past. Is this chook trying to say that abused people have inaccurate perceptions? Hasn't she learned about hypervigilance? You do not survive unless you can perceive more acutely than your non-abused peers.

 

You have made two intriguing remarks, Becoming:

 

I'm ready for it,(trusting self) but I'm not sure that it wouldn't mean a change in my marital status, my job, and my state of residence.

 

With respect, you do not have to change your state of residence: only your state of mind. Your marital status might be rearranged but need not be ended. If you check out Matt.22:21 and substitute "H" for Caesar, you'll get the point!

 

I was taught having any expectations is wrong if they don't match the "authorities'." ... Except that somewhere else down inside there's still this more primitive belief operating, too, which I'm still confronting.

 

Please tell more about this primitive belief. It sounds very fascinating, and (potentially) very healing!

 

But for the absolute quote of the week which should be framed and shown to every single person who might ever want to understand an abuse victim:

 

I think my need for affection is just a need for affection.

 

Bravo Pixie! :bunny:

[Becoming]

Oh, trust me, I have a file I'm taking into therapy next week. And if I don't get adequate resolution, I'm looking for another therapist.

 

I am so sick of therapists who seem to be one-note Johnnys who can only see things through one set of lenses. People are various and require multiple approaches, working with the specifities of their lives and helping them see things from a broader perspective, not from whatever their narrow perspective it is that they keep trying to cram your life into to make it fit the theory they're most comfortable with.

 

Now, the only thing I think might have been happening is her pushing me to see how I'd react to being questioned so we could talk about it. I've certainly been thinking about my reaction a lot.

 

Of course, if that's not it and I say, "Sorry this isn't what I need right now, so I'm outta here, but thanks for all you have done" she'll tell me I'm just looking to do my normal cut and run routine.

 

Frankly, I think I stay too long and tolerate what's not good for me. This is true in my current position and with H's behavior t/w me in our marriage. It seems to me that it'd be much more productive to talk about that and what causes this behavior.

 

My primitive beliefs are all the ones I learned growing up: basically, I was not to be. I wasn't to have any emotion. I was to be seen (as the perfect daughter to show off to parents' friends they wanted to impress) but not heard. I wasn't to speak unlesss spoken to and then with the standard polite phrases ("very well, thank you.") I was to be obedient without question. ("When I tell you to jump, you are to jump. You don't ask how high, you don't ask when, you just jump."--a common raging rant.) I wasn't supposed to "bother" (actual word used) anyone for anything I needed. I was to eat all of whatever they put in front of me when they did, not when I was hungry and without regard for any of my preferences. There should be a support group for folks with brussel sprout trauma. I once was given corn flakes with spoiled milk on them that I refused to eat, so the bowl was brought back for me to eat for lunch and for dinner . . . . I received no food that wasn't this for the next two days. When I finally managed to eat it, I got other food. I had to adhere to a strict sleeping schedule, which was more than I needed (2-3 hr. naps, bedtime 8:30 p.m - 7:30 a.m. like German clockwork.) I wasn't allowed to play quietly, just lie in my bed. If I didn't, I was met with frightful anger and out-of-control spankings with a belt. (No wonder I have trouble sleeping.) I was never to complain. Instead, I was to be grateful that I received food, clothing, and shelter; that's all my parents "were required to provide." Their view of reality was the only one permitted. (Umm, yes, I see.) My perceptions were to be beaten out of me.

 

And if I was in any other way than expected, I was hit and verbally abused in ways that would make paint peel.

 

Basically, I was a POW without the torture. But with most of the mind games.

 

I find myself angry just looking back over this list. My anger, now, though, is that I keep believing out of this and rebelling against it when it may or may not be operative IRL. My anger is against myself for not believing me, not trusting what's happening to me, as a4a suggests.

 

The thing is, I'm not sure that I can trust me. I've been told and come to believe that my perceptions of reality are not reality for so long that it's really hard for me to know what's what. It's like I need other people to name my reality for me, which I guess means I'm still about 2 years old in this respect.

 

This has been helpful to compile. I'm not crazy. Just brainwashed. And my perceptions are just as valid as anyone else's. I'm open to theirs; I expect them to be open to mine as well. If not, why would I want to be in relationship with them? Haven't I had enough of that to last a lifetime?

 

So I guess I need deprogrammed. How do folks suffering from the Stockholm syndome recover? Or folks getting out of cults. That might be helpful to consider.

[Becoming]

The deeper belief beyond all this s***, though, is that all this stuff I was taught is just a load of crap. This is where I have to get to to operate out of on a consistent basis.

 

I'm angry at myself for not listening to me. I just keep acting as though if I can only be good enough . . . and I can't . . . by someone else's standards, only by mine. I've got to give this notion up.

 

I know all this. I've been jubilant before to discover that this is all just a load of someone else's crap. I just keep coming back to these bad beliefs like a dog returns to its own vomit. Like, what's with that? :o

 

Just a part of the recovery process working its way out?

 

Thank you, enki, for your attention to our posts and asking just the right questions at just the right time. Now if I could just get you on my insurance plan . . .