Living with mother and living together

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

She has already shown you that she has no intentions of making this happen.  You have two choices, you can accept this situation as it is or end the relationship.  Being pushy and controlling is not going to work, and frankly that is completely disrespectful and will backfire on you.  She is making no effort whatsoever to change this situation.  She is content the way it is.  Accepting this completely is the price of admission in this relationship.

It's very naive of you to think you can "prove" this to her.  It sounds like her mother is set in her ways and has made her decision about you.  You need to learn that you can't control other people.

She is actually making a lot of effort. It’s just that the speed at which the cohabitation was moving was too slow for me, and too fast for her. So now it’s sort of in the middle, and we’re both ok with that.

And it is she who said that her mother will eventually accept me once she sees that I’m good for her. She didn’t tell me to “prove” that, she just said it will have to happen eventually.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, MsJayne said:

Sounds like Mum is manipulative and controlling. If your fiancee's been living with this all of her life it's probably the reason her last relationship didn't work out, and it's also probably the reason she's attracted to pushy and controlling men. Your fiance is enabling both you and her mother, and both of you should stop making demands of her. With regard to Mum ringing late at night, this is just rude and selfish, (unless she has a serious illness or another very good reason), but the only person who can put a stop to it is your fiancee. Does your fiancee recognise that her mother's deliberately interfering in her life or that she's being manipulated into playing the role of parent? It's good that you acknowledge that you're controlling, but do you also acknowledge that controlling behaviour is a type of abuse? 

 

Yes, she recognizes that. She tells me that she feels like she is the mother, and her mother is the daughter. 

I acknowledge that I’m controlling, but I don’t think it’s a severe case. I’m much less controlling now than in the past, and working on bringing it as low as possible.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I don't doubt she would like her mother's blessing, but it also may be acting as a convenient excuse because your finacée doesn't isn't ready to move forward in your relationship and doesn't have the courage to be totally honest with you. 

 

 

I doubt she is using it as an excuse, because she actually did tell me honestly, “It’s moving too fast for me, don’t push me, I’m not ready yet to live together 7 nights a week”. She didn’t even mention her mother as a reason or an excuse.

That is a separate issue. I have no problem with being in a 4+3 days format for now. The problem is that her mother is unhappy even with that, and is putting pressure on her, calling her on “our” nights and summoning her back.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

What part of you thinks it's a good idea to be insistent about her spending more time with you?   Thing is, if spending more time with you at the expense of her mother was her preference, she'd already be doing it.    That said, you also don't want to wait forever.   All you can do is observe her behaviour and make a decision for yourself accordingly.

Also, you're not going to win points with mom by buying expensive gifts.   What mom needs to see in order to come around is that her daughter is happy and content

I realize I won’t be able to “bribe” her mother into liking me. And yes, that’s just my fiancée herself said, her mother will accept me once she knows her daughter is happy.

About “waiting forever” - that’s precisely the question. How long do I wait?

I don’t know if it’s relevant, but my previous relationship was living together with a woman for 7 years without getting married. She kept promising me she will marry me, but was delaying it year after year, and eventually broke up with me. My best friend told me I’m having trust issues and am projecting too much of my past onto my current relationship.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Since you don't live together, if her staying at your place annoys you, simply invite her over less. Keep in mind some women who aren't ready to leave abusive relationships have someone "check in", so they have an escape. For example it's interesting that the mother calls regularly while she's at your place and she doesn't silence the phone. 

No, her staying at my place doesn’t annoy me at all, on the contrary, I’d love her to stay every night.

Her mother (and father) call her regularly anyway, regardless of time and place. Her father calls her even more often, sometimes even later at night, because she sometimes forgets to tell him she is home safe (her parents don’t live together). I have no problem when this happens on “our” nights. I only have problem when her mother explicitly calls her back, and she rushes back.

 

[NuevoYorko]

6 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

No, I understand this. I don’t want to be pushy, I’m trying to find another solution

How she deals with her mother is her decision to make.  

How you respond to her decision is your choice.

It sounds like the mother has bad health? and depends on this daughter to take care of her.  Is that the case?  if it is, I don't think it will be getting any better, ever, until the mom dies, because your girlfriend is already in a caregiver role and the mother is aging.   Mother's needs will be increasing, not lessening.

It kind of sounds like a package deal.  Are you down for that?

[Gebidozo]

4 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

How she deals with her mother is her decision to make.  

How you respond to her decision is your choice.

It sounds like the mother has bad health? and depends on this daughter to take care of her.  Is that the case?  if it is, I don't think it will be getting any better, ever, until the mom dies, because your girlfriend is already in a caregiver role and the mother is aging.   Mother's needs will be increasing, not lessening.

It kind of sounds like a package deal.  Are you down for that?

According to my fiancée, her mother has “some mental issues”. She said it started during COVID lockdowns. She has sudden panic attacks, fears, which lead to heart palpitations and short breath. I don’t think she is physically ill. Also, according to my fiancée, her mother’s mental health is actually improving. 

What’s the definition of “package deal”?

I’m down for waiting more, but I don’t think this can go on permanently. I’d be completely ok with taking care of her mother myself, in a house where we all live together. It’s her mother that doesn’t want that (not yet, at least).

[Wiseman2]

Exactly. The mother is providing the escape loophole. It's not a coincidence that she doesn't want to stay with you, the mother doesn't like you and her people have heard about your abusive controlling attitude and behavior. 

. "I only have problem when her mother explicitly calls her back, and she rushes back."

[Gebidozo]

28 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly. The mother is providing the escape loophole. It's not a coincidence that she doesn't want to stay with you, the mother doesn't like you and her people have heard about your abusive controlling attitude and behavior. 

. "I only have problem when her mother explicitly calls her back, and she rushes back."

I don’t think expressing discomfort over the fact that her mother might call any time and ruin our night together constitutes “abusive controlling attitude and behavior”. My fiancée doesn’t need any “escape loophole”, she knows she is free to come and go as she pleases.

[d0nnivain]

10 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

She is 30.

 

9 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

They were in a serious, though on-and-off relationship, for 11 years. He wanted to marry her. 

Hmmmm

So your 30 year old GF had a relationship with somebody else for 11 years, making her 19 (or younger) when she met him.  In another thread you describe a domineering BF who got her (dubious) consent for certain sex acts.  

Was this guy who mom prefers, that guy?  Was the guy who mom prefers the one who "saved" her daughter from the dubious consent guy?  

You are painting a picture of a woman who doesn't stick up for herself much.  At 17 she had this dominant BF.  Then she spent 11 years not breaking free from the EX.  She monkey branched into you.  That means she has never been independent.  There has always been a man to provide.  On top of that she's still at mommy's beck & call.   This "ideal" woman doesn't even really seem to be a grown up.  

[IrinaM]

There's so much wrong with this situation. I can't imagine week after week spending four nights here and three nights there. This sounds exhausting. Does your girlfriend work?

Also--you know a lot about her mother and how she feels about you, how she feels about the ex, etc. But you also say you've never met her. If you've never met her, how do you know that she disapproves of you so strongly?

[Wiseman2]

Agree with IrinaM . The story keeps changing. You did preface it by saying "really need advice, I’m not trolling".  

Exactly are you hoping for advice on if the story keeps changing and doesn't add up?

For example you say you're "living together", but she's just spending a few nights there like a typical GF. 

Edited March 8 by Wiseman2

[Acacia98]

5 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

About “waiting forever” - that’s precisely the question. How long do I wait?

I don’t know if it’s relevant, but my previous relationship was living together with a woman for 7 years without getting married. She kept promising me she will marry me, but was delaying it year after year, and eventually broke up with me. My best friend told me I’m having trust issues and am projecting too much of my past onto my current relationship.

Assuming that what your girlfriend has described to you is exactly what's happening, I don't think the mother is ever going to accept you. I imagine you pose a threat to her. I think it's possible she didn't like the other guy until he was dumped either. It's easier to like someone when you no longer feel threatened by them. But here's the thing: the mother isn't really the issue. The issue is that you and your girlfriend are not a good match. Ideally, someone with your anxieties should be with a woman who is more assertive and has stronger boundaries and can actually commit fully to the relationship.

How long do you wait? If I were you, I'd have already started pulling back with the goal of ending the relationship. You've been together for two years. It doesn't get better than what you're experiencing right now. And you're already unhappy. So it seems like your choices are to accept a constant state of unhappiness or to end the relationship.

It's possible that you're repeating your previous relationship's patterns because deep down inside, you don't think you deserve happiness (to put it very simplistically). You should look into getting some counselling.

5 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

According to my fiancée, her mother has “some mental issues”. She said it started during COVID lockdowns. She has sudden panic attacks, fears, which lead to heart palpitations and short breath. I don’t think she is physically ill. Also, according to my fiancée, her mother’s mental health is actually improving. 

What’s the definition of “package deal”?

I’m down for waiting more, but I don’t think this can go on permanently. I’d be completely ok with taking care of her mother myself, in a house where we all live together. It’s her mother that doesn’t want that (not yet, at least).

You don't really know that you'd be okay living with her mum. How can you say you would be when you've never even met her? There is a heck of a difference between the idea of living with someone and the actual fact of living with that person.

Look, if this were a good relationship, you and your girlfriend would have a sense of what was actually possible. There would be a tentative timeline for your meeting the mum already. And your girlfriend and her family would already be trying to figure out a long-term solution to caring for her mum, whether that was additional mental health support or some kind of assisted living setting or having someone else move in with her or having her move in with you guys. The fact that you're still being given a nebulous answer about waiting for some day when heaven will come down and her mother will open her heart to you... It just doesn't sound realistic. Take it from someone who has plenty of experience trying to find a healthy balance between caregiving and being in a relationship.

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

 

Hmmmm

So your 30 year old GF had a relationship with somebody else for 11 years, making her 19 (or younger) when she met him.  In another thread you describe a domineering BF who got her (dubious) consent for certain sex acts.  

Was this guy who mom prefers, that guy?  Was the guy who mom prefers the one who "saved" her daughter from the dubious consent guy?  

You are painting a picture of a woman who doesn't stick up for herself much.  At 17 she had this dominant BF.  Then she spent 11 years not breaking free from the EX.  She monkey branched into you.  That means she has never been independent.  There has always been a man to provide.  On top of that she's still at mommy's beck & call.   This "ideal" woman doesn't even really seem to be a grown up.  

Hmmm, I don’t think it’s wise to construct such elaborate psychological profiles consisting of what appears to be a fantastic conjecture based on snippets of factual information.

Your description of my fiancée is so inaccurate that it made me laugh. For starters, nobody “saved” anyone from anyone. She was 17-18 when she was with that dominant guy. She was 19 when she got together with the long-term guy (and yes, obviously, that’s the guy her mother prefers). The two weren’t even in the same country, and there was a one-year gap between them. 

Then, I clearly wrote than she had an ON-AND-OFF 11-year relationship with that guy. There were 3 “off” years during which she and I met each other. She didn’t “monkey branch” from anyone into anyone, she basically had a choice whether to go back to that guy or start a new relationship with me, and she chose me.

The part about independence is the most laughable one. She’s currently providing for herself AND her mother! She never depended on anyone for income. She is a highly respected artist with a very successful career in a very large and culturally significant city.

 

 

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, IrinaM said:

There's so much wrong with this situation. I can't imagine week after week spending four nights here and three nights there. This sounds exhausting. Does your girlfriend work?

Also--you know a lot about her mother and how she feels about you, how she feels about the ex, etc. But you also say you've never met her. If you've never met her, how do you know that she disapproves of you so strongly?

If that’s exhausting for you, I understand, but people are different. I personally see nothing exhausting in this, and neither does my fiancée. In her country’s culture it’s completely normal even for a married woman to occasionally spend nights with her parents. That’s pretty much what she is doing now, albeit staying with her mother more than usual.

To answer your first question: yes, she works.

The answer to your second question is very obvious: I know all those things about her mother because my fiancée related them to me.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree with IrinaM . The story keeps changing. You did preface it by saying "really need advice, I’m not trolling".  

Exactly are you hoping for advice on if the story keeps changing and doesn't add up?

For example you say you're "living together", but she's just spending a few nights there like a typical GF. 

4 nights out of 7 aren’t “few nights”. A majority can hardly be called “few”. Majority is described with the word “most”. And that’s exactly how I described it.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Assuming that what your girlfriend has described to you is exactly what's happening, I don't think the mother is ever going to accept you. I imagine you pose a threat to her. I think it's possible she didn't like the other guy until he was dumped either. It's easier to like someone when you no longer feel threatened by them. But here's the thing: the mother isn't really the issue. The issue is that you and your girlfriend are not a good match. Ideally, someone with your anxieties should be with a woman who is more assertive and has stronger boundaries and can actually commit fully to the relationship.

How long do you wait? If I were you, I'd have already started pulling back with the goal of ending the relationship. You've been together for two years. It doesn't get better than what you're experiencing right now. And you're already unhappy. So it seems like your choices are to accept a constant state of unhappiness or to end the relationship.

It's possible that you're repeating your previous relationship's patterns because deep down inside, you don't think you deserve happiness (to put it very simplistically). You should look into getting some counselling.

You don't really know that you'd be okay living with her mum. How can you say you would be when you've never even met her? There is a heck of a difference between the idea of living with someone and the actual fact of living with that person.

Look, if this were a good relationship, you and your girlfriend would have a sense of what was actually possible. There would be a tentative timeline for your meeting the mum already. And your girlfriend and her family would already be trying to figure out a long-term solution to caring for her mum, whether that was additional mental health support or some kind of assisted living setting or having someone else move in with her or having her move in with you guys. The fact that you're still being given a nebulous answer about waiting for some day when heaven will come down and her mother will open her heart to you... It just doesn't sound realistic. Take it from someone who has plenty of experience trying to find a healthy balance between caregiving and being in a relationship.

Thank you for your response, Acacia.

In fact, according to my fiancée, her mother loved her ex like a son. So I don’t think it’s about feeling threatened or anything like that. She just wants her daughter to be with than man, not with me. 

I’m not at all unhappy. I’m concerned with some things, but there is no “state of constant unhappiness”, not even close. I’ve been in that state, so I can compare. This is, so far, the happiest relationship I’ve ever been in.

Also, one of the reasons why I’m hopeful is the steady progress. At first, we dated for several months without her ever staying overnight. Then she started staying one night per week, and so on. You’re probably similar to me in that you want things to move fast. But I guess she is different, and it’s already very fast for her. According to her, it took her a significantly longer time to finally fully move in with her ex.

 

[Alpacalia]

I sense that you care deeply for this woman and want to make things work for both of you. The fact that you're asking for advice is a great sign. You're self-aware and willing to take feedback. That's wonderful.

Try your best to smile and say "Yes" in front of her, even if you feel frustration. Tell her "Have a good night, honey. I'll see you soon" and give her a hug. I notice that you never mentioned hugging in your story. Make it a point to hug your fiancée while telling her goodnight. This pleasant behavior will help set the stage for a wider discussion later. Try to remain calm as you discuss this with her. If you do give into your anxiety and "try to have it your way", while you may win for a moment, you'll end up in this place again and again, thus digging the hole of resentment deeper and deeper between the two of you.

In the meantime, practice self soothing techniques in those four nights without her, while also being generous with yourself. Make a great dinner yourself, go out with friends, take yourself to a movie you'd like to see. Work on becoming "secure" in yourself without her, because when you rely on attachment (her), you'll get more anxious when she isn't around. I think once you start to relax when she's with you four with nights, you'll notice a hopeful difference when she does go back home to her mother for three nights. This can be a new vision–she's returning home to spend a bit of time with her mom, whom she also cares for. One day, she may spend less time with her mother and more with you–perhaps after marriage, perhaps sooner.

If you do believe the latter, then allow yourself to relax and take an observer role. Love and life is a never-ending conversation in dance. She'll be back with you soon.

The universe/heart doesn't like a void. If she feels you're "pulling" her away from her mother, she'll cling more fiercely to her. Please strongly consider to back off. Instead, when you appear slightly more relaxed, not having to have your way, and taking care of yourself (not just her), she will willingly move closer to your embrace.

Her mother doesn't seem to like you much–that's really too bad. Yes, she's competing with you...for her daughter's attention. However, this isn't about winning–this about bonding, most of all mutual respect. When your fiancee shares time with you, make it quality time. Share interests. Talk a little--but listen more. Empathize.

[IrinaM]

4 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

4 nights out of 7 aren’t “few nights”. A majority can hardly be called “few”. Majority is described with the word “most”. And that’s exactly how I described it.

Right but the problem is she doesn't actually stay 4 nights/week. She leaves and goes to be with her mom.

Does she have her name on your apartment lease (or house deed)?

[Gebidozo]

49 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I sense that you care deeply for this woman and want to make things work for both of you. The fact that you're asking for advice is a great sign. You're self-aware and willing to take feedback. That's wonderful.

Try your best to smile and say "Yes" in front of her, even if you feel frustration. Tell her "Have a good night, honey. I'll see you soon" and give her a hug. I notice that you never mentioned hugging in your story. Make it a point to hug your fiancée while telling her goodnight. This pleasant behavior will help set the stage for a wider discussion later. Try to remain calm as you discuss this with her. If you do give into your anxiety and "try to have it your way", while you may win for a moment, you'll end up in this place again and again, thus digging the hole of resentment deeper and deeper between the two of you.

In the meantime, practice self soothing techniques in those four nights without her, while also being generous with yourself. Make a great dinner yourself, go out with friends, take yourself to a movie you'd like to see. Work on becoming "secure" in yourself without her, because when you rely on attachment (her), you'll get more anxious when she isn't around. I think once you start to relax when she's with you four with nights, you'll notice a hopeful difference when she does go back home to her mother for three nights. This can be a new vision–she's returning home to spend a bit of time with her mom, whom she also cares for. One day, she may spend less time with her mother and more with you–perhaps after marriage, perhaps sooner.

If you do believe the latter, then allow yourself to relax and take an observer role. Love and life is a never-ending conversation in dance. She'll be back with you soon.

The universe/heart doesn't like a void. If she feels you're "pulling" her away from her mother, she'll cling more fiercely to her. Please strongly consider to back off. Instead, when you appear slightly more relaxed, not having to have your way, and taking care of yourself (not just her), she will willingly move closer to your embrace.

Her mother doesn't seem to like you much–that's really too bad. Yes, she's competing with you...for her daughter's attention. However, this isn't about winning–this about bonding, most of all mutual respect. When your fiancee shares time with you, make it quality time. Share interests. Talk a little--but listen more. Empathize.

Alpacalia, thank you so much! Your advices are always so kind, thoughtful, and insightful. I’ll do my very best to follow them! You really lifted my spirits with your heart-warming response🙏

[Gebidozo]

27 minutes ago, IrinaM said:

Right but the problem is she doesn't actually stay 4 nights/week. She leaves and goes to be with her mom.

Does she have her name on your apartment lease (or house deed)?

Oh, no, she mostly stays 4 nights a week. That Mom-rushing happens only when her mother calls her and tells her she feels bad and needs her there. That occurs maybe once every 2-3 months or so. 

Yes, she is on the lease and she has the second key to the apartment door.

[IrinaM]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh, no, she mostly stays 4 nights a week. That Mom-rushing happens only when her mother calls her and tells her she feels bad and needs her there. That occurs maybe once every 2-3 months or so. 

Okay. Let's just say we use your low-end estimate of once every two months. That means for seven weeks straight she adheres to this 4 on 3 off schedule, and then there is one week where she doesn't spend all four nights at your place, but then for the next couple of months everything is normal again and she spends the full four nights at your place like she agreed to. What's the problem? What would you like to see happen?

[Gebidozo]

13 minutes ago, IrinaM said:

Okay. Let's just say we use your low-end estimate of once every two months. That means for seven weeks straight she adheres to this 4 on 3 off schedule, and then there is one week where she doesn't spend all four nights at your place, but then for the next couple of months everything is normal again and she spends the full four nights at your place like she agreed to. What's the problem? What would you like to see happen?

It just stresses me out. Makes me panic.

My problem is not the occasional “night off”, but the way it happens. We are almost asleep, then the call comes. Her mother is panicking, out of breath. Several times my fiancée said she won’t go, because it’s “our” night. But I can see that she has guilt feelings about not tending to her mother, so naturally I tell her, “No, you should go, your Mom needs you, I’m going to be completely ok here”. Then she leaves. And I just feel sad and stressed out, though I try my best not to show her. 

[Wiseman2]

She lives with her mother, not you. You're just arguing, which is why people on your other thread gave up and assumed you were trolling. Her mother sounds elderly or sickly. You can take care of yourself. 

Edited March 8 by Wiseman2

[Gebidozo]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She lives with her mother, not you. Her mother sounds elderly or sickly. You can take care of yourself. 

Ooooookay… You are free to compose imaginary stories very loosely based on the lives of people you don’t know at all😊