Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 minutes ago, brokenbird said: Okay, I understand this one. But what should I do when I want to be understood but the other is not willing? Ill make up another example. A year ago I was reckless and fearless, I couldnt see any consequences. It has already changed much, but let's talk about a past case. I was out with some friends without my partner, he was planning to join later. A friend just said that there is a bar at the corner and she wants some beer but she doesnt want to go inside. So I offered to buy her beer. I went inside and a guy, very angrily came to me, grabbed my waist and he was not willing to let me go. I told him to let go and he didn't budge. I broke out of his arms. Later that night my boyfriend joined and I told him what happened to me. In my mind, I believed that he would get angry that a guy touched his girl so agressively. Instead of this, he got angry at me and told me that I was such a pretty girl, I was dressed in attractive clothes and I made a dumb choice by going into the bar alone. Here comes the point. I told him that he was fully right, I was stupid, reckless and now I know that I shouldnt have wondered alone, but I would feel better if he showed me some worry or anything. I told him what I needed - not him going after the guy and smashing his head which would result in my boyfriend being arrested, but rather telling me stuff like he is sooo mad someone touched me and he feels sorry for me. I communicated my needs and he just kept being rational and explaining to me that my decisions led to this. Obviously he cares about me if he explains these things with thought, but I feel like he cant feel worried if it was my mistake. I dont know how else I should communicate this. When something bad happens to me, he tells me the reasons so I could be safe next time which is great, but I need to feel like he cares about other guys Wait. Is this something that actually happened or is it hypothetical? If this exact scenario happened, I'd advise you to walk away from the relationship there and then. Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Acacia98 said: Wait. Is this something that actually happened or is it hypothetical? If this exact scenario happened, I'd advise you to walk away from the relationship there and then. This happened. I made a dumb choice by offering to go into a bar with drunk aholes, and my boyfriend told me that I should take care, I should not put myself into such dangerous situations 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, brokenbird said: This is reasonable, but what about people who are important ? What if it is a mother who blames you for something that she does in reality? Then you would probably benefit from therapy to help you figure out how to deal with your toxic mother. There's something called "gray rock." It's a strategy you can employ to deal with unreasonable people who go out of their way to cause conflict. Look it up on Google. It might help you. Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, brokenbird said: This happened. I made a dumb choice by offering to go into a bar with drunk aholes, and my boyfriend told me that I should take care, I should not put myself into such dangerous situations In the immediate aftermath of the incident, when you're still terrified, he should comfort you and be protective of you. Much much later, when you're felling better, you can have a discussion about how to avoid those kinds of dangerous situations. Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 4 minutes ago, Acacia98 said: In the immediate aftermath of the incident, when you're still terrified, he should comfort you and be protective of you. Much much later, when you're felling better, you can have a discussion about how to avoid those kinds of dangerous situations. I wasnt. I was already calm, just a bit baffled. Many stories like this happened in the past. Since then I learned my lesson, but these stories were familiar for him since the beginning of our relationship Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 14 minutes ago, Acacia98 said: Wait. Is this something that actually happened or is it hypothetical? If this exact scenario happened, I'd advise you to walk away from the relationship there and then. Do you say that because he didn't console me, because he tried to teach me or because he didn't go back to get the guy? Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 12 minutes ago, brokenbird said: I wasnt. I was already calm, just a bit baffled. Many stories like this happened in the past. Since then I learned my lesson, but these stories were familiar for him since the beginning of our relationship If this is who he consistently is and he has never changed over the course of your relationship, then it's not likely he's going to change. And honestly, not showing empathy isn't a little flaw. It's the sort of thing that becomes more problematic as the relationship progresses. So you will become more and more resentful over time. You are right to be concerned about this specific issue. Are you ready to consider the possibility (already mentioned by someone else) that you and your guy are incompatible? Edited January 18 by Acacia98 Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 minutes ago, brokenbird said: Do you say that because he didn't console me, because he tried to teach me or because he didn't go back to get the guy? Because he didn't console you and decided that he should lecture you about it instead. I wouldn't expect him to go back and confront the other guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Acacia98 said: If this is who he consistently is and he has never changed over the course of your relationship, then it's not likely he's going to change. And honestly, not showing empathy isn't a little flaw. It's the sort of thing that becomes more problematic as the relationship progresses. So you will become more and more resentful over time. You are right to be concerned about his specific issue. Are you ready to consider the possibility (already mentioned by someone else) that you and your guy are incompatible? I thought about this before. I couldnt say it is lack of empathy. He doesnt show empathy in the cases where I get myself in trouble. Just like when a parent looks a their child who spilled a can of paint, you did it to yourself. When I get hurt by people out of nowhere, when I am sick, when I feel sad because of my mental health, he says the sweetest things, buys me food, etc. I couldnt solidly say that he is not there for me, because he is. But when I do something stupid and I get into trouble, he acts like a parent Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, brokenbird said: I thought about this before. I couldnt say it is lack of empathy. He doesnt show empathy in the cases where I get myself in trouble. Just like when a parent looks a their child who spilled a can of paint, you did it to yourself. When I get hurt by people out of nowhere, when I am sick, when I feel sad because of my mental health, he says the sweetest things, buys me food, etc. I couldnt solidly say that he is not there for me, because he is. But when I do something stupid and I get into trouble, he acts like a parent And do you do the same to him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Acacia98 said: And do you do the same to him? Good question. I think in the past, I was not the best. But now I am really empatetic towards him Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 43 minutes ago, brokenbird said: The reason I dont move on is that I know another guy will have a different flaw. Everyone has them Of course everyone in this world has flaws. I'm talking about compatibility, which you don't have with your bf. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Acacia98 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 22 minutes ago, brokenbird said: Good question. I think in the past, I was not the best. But now I am really empatetic towards him You could try carrying on as you are. But I suspect that you would grow resentful because you were being more empathetic towards him than he was being towards you. And the thing is, you would never have started this discussion in the first place if you felt you could live with this. Also, for what it's worth, I think his "parental disapproval" would be an understandable reaction in a situation like the one where you were arguing with his friends. But it is out of place in the situation where the guy in the bar manhandled you. You do realize that you're basically saying that if someone had hurt you physically, your guy wouldn't have shown you any empathy because you could have avoided the situation, right? That sounds messed up. I have to wonder how safe you would feel coming to him if you were hurt badly in that kind of situation. And I wonder what it would do to your self-esteem if instead of comforting you, he blamed you for what you had suffered. There are already indications that you are hungry for affirmation in those incidents where you argue with his friends to the point of bursting into tears. So it is clear that you are not getting the kind of affirmation you value from the people who matter to you, and you feel unseen. This is where compatibility comes in. Are you compatible with your boyfriend? Were you compatible with his friends? Edited January 18 by Acacia98 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Reading between the lines here, I get the sense that people have gaslighted you in the past & you now feel compelled to correct the record on all accounts. That can get tiresome. In the example where somebody was criticizing you for not taking out the trash when you had already taken the trash out, yes you can say something. The best thing to say would be along the lines of "You're right today is trash day. I took the trash out at [time]". Don't engage on the accusations of laziness. Don't fight back. Just state the fact. With respect to the time, just verify the time. If there's a dis Where you may get in trouble is fighting back & escalating. Some people are not empathetic. It can be taught to some extent but it doesn't come naturally to some people. You seem to be a nurturer but not everybody is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Acacia98 said: I have to wonder how safe you would feel coming to him if you were hurt badly in that kind of situation. And I wonder what it would do to your self-esteem if instead of comforting you, he blamed you for what you had suffered. There was a case at my work place where the guy was constantly getting more and more touchy. To the point where he finally put his hand between my thighs. My boyfriend was apalled and told me that he would come to my workplace but that would mean I dont have a job anymore. He stayed on the phone with me the whole day. So Im not exactly sure anymore what the deal is. I just asked him about the bar occasion that I talked about before. I asked him what went through his mind. First thing he said is that he was mad at everyone for letting me go inside alone. Then he said he felt sorry for me, but when he feels angry, that is what he shows. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, d0nnivain said: Some people are not empathetic. It can be taught to some extent but it doesn't come naturally to some people. You seem to be a nurturer but not everybody is. Might be that my boyfriend was raised by his grandparents, and they were never gentle people. They taught him that when he does something that is not approved, he should just lie. We had a long road with this, until he understood that I am not his enemy and he can tell the truth. I feel like love is such an important thing. Many people have healthy relationships but they end so fast. Or they end up alone their whole life. We never left each other, even in the toughest times, and I hold on to that. Id much rather have a few nasty years with someone who loves me wholeheartedly and grow together in a healthy way than to have short relationships or try with other people Edited January 18 by brokenbird Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 4 hours ago, stillafool said: Of course everyone in this world has flaws. I'm talking about compatibility, which you don't have with your bf. I saw many and much more compatible people break up. Thats why I believe in growing together and slowly accepting things, even if it takes years Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Quote But then how do people learn if they stay silent? One of the guys literally said that he learned he has to word his problems sooner because of me. How do people teach life lessons to each other if they act like sheep. I dont know. If someone says something about me that is not true, I feel the need to correct them. For example, they told me that they have to make plans according to my schedule. Which is not true, because they are the ones with a fixated work schedule and I can move my days around as I want. So if they say 20th october, then it is fine by me. It was always me who pops up the "which day works for you guys " question, so I can write my schedule according to them. I was never able to just say "fine, they think I am the one who makes the plans, let them think that way" There seems to be a running theme where people in different parts of your life say things about you which are allegedly untrue. Perhaps you are saying things which are perceived differently to what you mean? In this case, it doesn't make an iota of sense that someone would say that they have to make plans according to your schedule unless they believe it to be true. You are doing something (possibly quite accidentally) which makes them perceive things this way. When the person said this to you, what was the context of the conversation? In particular, what had you said just before they replied with this?" Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 11 hours ago, brokenbird said: when I do something stupid and I get into trouble, he acts like a parent Even though you're only 23, you're still responsible for yourself and your actions. Your BF is not there to fight your battles for you or coddle you. He seems to try to understand you but you seem to want a lot more than that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 14 hours ago, brokenbird said: But then how do people learn if they stay silent? One of the guys literally said that he learned he has to word his problems sooner because of me. How do people teach life lessons to each other if they act like sheep. You learn by listening and paying attention to others when you stay silent. It's not necessarily your job to teach other people much of anything. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but you seem to be quite controlling and high maintenance with your boyfriend, at work and also with your friends. Can you back off and just go with the flow at all? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 8 hours ago, basil67 said: There seems to be a running theme where people in different parts of your life say things about you which are allegedly untrue. Perhaps you are saying things which are perceived differently to what you mean? In this case, it doesn't make an iota of sense that someone would say that they have to make plans according to your schedule unless they believe it to be true. You are doing something (possibly quite accidentally) which makes them perceive things this way. When the person said this to you, what was the context of the conversation? In particular, what had you said just before they replied with this?" So I took a day off for a party, because everyone was free on that particular day and I was the one assimilating to them. They came up with the idea that they wont just have that one party,but another one a week before that one, too. Just for guys. I remembered that I needed my boyfriend for a date but I wasnt so strict with the day, so I told them to have their justboys party if they want that one more than the other one, and we will have our date on the day of the OG party. These are not the exact words, hence the language difference, but this was the point - have fun with the boys, Im okay with a delayed date. This is where I got the text, that they have to assimilate to me all the time , and there is life on this planet without me, too. Out of nowhere. So I was hurt, and my bf felt like he didn't need to step in. If I am honest, there wouldnt have been a difference even if he did,they teamed up on me behind my back, I found out later. 4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said: You learn by listening and paying attention to others when you stay silent. It's not necessarily your job to teach other people much of anything. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but you seem to be quite controlling and high maintenance with your boyfriend, at work and also with your friends. Can you back off and just go with the flow at all? I can surely do with work and people, but I am not sure if I can with my boyfriend. I tend to get scared if my partner loves me at all - partner as in the role, not specifically him. This is an insecurity I have that I already work on with therapy. Also, I was the one who posted a thread about himying about using porn in the first few years, so it is even harder. I am a very logical person, I want to understand everything and my boyfriend also makes me question things. I cant even describe him. You can see the pure love in his eyes when he does things for me, even if he is really bad with words (I dont blame him, its because of his past). He would never let me down by not helping me with literally anything. If I have an idea, he makes sure I am happy, for example, just building a showman with me. He runs my @ss whenever and wherever I need to go somewhere by car. I know he finds comfort sleeping on my lap when I watch a movie. He makes the most special, creative little gadgets for me for Christmas. He worked (and me too, I am proud of us!) so hard to learn respect, treat others with nicer wording, and to realize when his voice is raising, and if it does, he apologises immediately. The lying about porn stuff improved,too. Im not sure if he lied or not in the past year, but I see progress and both mentally and physically which I am happy for. I know him lying to me was not about love, he had a really bad habit and he felt no empathy towards me, because in his mind, he did nothing wrong. Now he sees it differently. I love him to pieces and I want to be good for me and him, but sometimes I think if he handles these cases I talked about this way, can he even love me? The reason I can do better with other people because there is only one friend I care about and we have no conflicts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Even though you're only 23, you're still responsible for yourself and your actions. Your BF is not there to fight your battles for you or coddle you. He seems to try to understand you but you seem to want a lot more than that. He does try to understand me. Which I dont need. I just need to feel like it bothers him and not because I was dumb Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 57 minutes ago, brokenbird said: So I took a day off for a party, because everyone was free on that particular day and I was the one assimilating to them. They came up with the idea that they wont just have that one party,but another one a week before that one, too. Just for guys. I remembered that I needed my boyfriend for a date but I wasnt so strict with the day, so I told them to have their justboys party if they want that one more than the other one, and we will have our date on the day of the OG party. These are not the exact words, hence the language difference, but this was the point - have fun with the boys, Im okay with a delayed date. Oh yeah, I see where they are coming from. I know you didn't intend it to come out this way, but it does sound like a backhanded way to tell them that you are organising your life around their dates. Thing is, these guys are your bf's friends. If the dates aren't working for the both of you, leave him to deal with it. If you don't like his decisions, take it up with him. Do not involve his friends 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author brokenbird Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, basil67 said: Oh yeah, I see where they are coming from. I know you didn't intend it to come out this way, but it does sound like a backhanded way to tell them that you are organising your life around their dates. Thing is, these guys are your bf's friends. If the dates aren't working for the both of you, leave him to deal with it. If you don't like his decisions, take it up with him. Do not involve his friends And I agree with you completely! Now I see that. My main problem was the arguement that followed this case - my boyfriend didn't feel like saying a word or two, even though I begged him because I felt like a whole group of people of his was attacking me. I think it comes down to the earlier cases where I was touched by men and I felt like he didn't care for the right reasons. If I separate this case from him, I didn't even need anyone to step in. It is rooted in the earlier ones. I know he cares for my safety. I see how he steps between me and a group of drunken men. How he steps in front of me when a dog comes near us. Obviously he cares, so I dont know why the way his reaction is when I tell him a story Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 55 minutes ago, brokenbird said: And I agree with you completely! Now I see that. My main problem was the arguement that followed this case - my boyfriend didn't feel like saying a word or two, even though I begged him because I felt like a whole group of people of his was attacking me. I think it comes down to the earlier cases where I was touched by men and I felt like he didn't care for the right reasons. If I separate this case from him, I didn't even need anyone to step in. It is rooted in the earlier ones. I know he cares for my safety. I see how he steps between me and a group of drunken men. How he steps in front of me when a dog comes near us. Obviously he cares, so I dont know why the way his reaction is when I tell him a story The background to this needs to be worked out in therapy - not with your boyfriend. With regards to the bar thing, it was not cool to victim blame you. But equally, it was a (by the sounds of it) drunken hug. Not a hand inside your underwear. Did you really expect him to get upset where you weren't sexually assaulted and he can't do anything about it anyway? Meanwhile, the rule to dating is "complications with his friends are his problem". You stay out of it. If you don't overstep your place, he won't need to defend you. It's not his place to dig you out of your own hole Edited January 19 by basil67 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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