The woman I love and who loves me is not leaving her boyfriend

[Tagasok]

One year and half ago, a A new colleague (31F let’s call her “K”) arrives at my (M32) job (I am working in a different country than the one I am from). I was the one opening the door and I strongly believe we had a "love at first sight" moment, very intense, from both sides. However, I was in a serious 4-year relationship, and I felt relieved when I saw she was wearing an engagement ring.

After 1 month of slight interactions, all initiated from her side (she was a bit in the physical contact and told me that she really hoped that I would stay working in the project, she complimented my perfume regularly), she proposed to go for a beer after job (it was just the 2 of us). The atmosphere was really tense in a romantic way, but she mentioned she had a fiancee (lets call him “C” 44M), and I mentioned my GF too. She weirdly dropped at one point that she was not interested having affairs while we were actually discussing an other topic. We stayed together from 5pm to 1am when she went home. Then, we had 6 other similar drinks within 2 months, without kissing but still with tension (a lot of eyesights, sometimes touching hands, compliments). During these drinks, it was like the world doesn't exist, we were really connected. She sent me a message for my birthday (at the exact time I told her I am born) even if I was on holidays for 2 weeks. She offered me a keychain of something I like when I came back. We were either taking our lunch together or a coffee break every day and texting also a bit every day. We almost never mentioned our respective SOs.

In addition of all of that, she has a very “GF attitude” with me, asking me personal questions, remembering all I say (more than myself sometimes), commenting clothes and appearance, asking stuff like “do you always do this like that”, teasing, etc.

At that point (August), I fully realized that I was emotionally cheating and that I was the one proposing many out-of-the-job interactions. I came “clean” with my GF and broke up the relationship, which was a very painful event as, despite the other issues we were facing, it is still at this time the best love story of my life. The next drink, I went straight to “K”, explaining that there were feelings involved from my side and that it was one of the reasons I broke up with my GF. She reacted very emotionally, refusing to discuss the topic, which I understood as it can be shocking. She said that for her we are friends. I went to the bar to order another drink and when I cam back, she put the topic back on the table, stating that, from her side, there was feelings, chemistry and physical attraction too… I asked her therefore where she stood and she told me that she thinks “C” is “a good guy for her”. To be honest, I was really puzzled by this answer. She knew that the next day I was flying to my country of origin to assist a wedding and that I had a job offer on the table there (very well paid but not something I was interested in). She told me that she hoped I would take the offer and not come back and that in any case, she would pull away at the office at my return.

I thought that was it, but she texted me the next day, right before my plane took off that she hoped I would have a nice time in my home country and come back quickly and in good mood…She texted me again when I was there with a lame excuse… I answered and we chatted (weak…) and she proposed me to go to a concert with her and some friends at my return.

When I came back, the flirt continued like nothing happened. One Friday, I proposed her to go for a drink and she accepted, saying she had to go at 9PM because of additional work projects she was working on. When we arrived, she brought one of her friend, and we chatted the 3 of us quite normally (even if this friend was mentioning a bit out of the blue that “she is in love”). When her friend left at 9PM I thought that was it but “K” proposed to go to another bar. And then another. We finished in a third one, dancing together until 3AM… When we went out, we got close to kiss and she told me that she was thinking all the time about what I said but then, some friends of her arrived and broke the moment. Anyway, we continued the party one more hour and went back separately in our places. I went again in my country and my friends told me to put some distance when coming back. I declined the concert and did put a bit of distance, being friendly but not flirty and she reacted badly, asking why I was behaving so “official”. I said that I didn’t know what she was talking about.

Well, we had this habit of spending time after the job together before and soon after, she made sure I would stay at the job until she came from some field trip. We watched something and she asked me again I would continue to behave “official”. Same answer from my side and she was very enthusiastic to go for a drink after (when “C” called, I heard her telling him she could not go home now and was busy…). At the drink, after some casual chatting, she asked me a 3rd time if I would continue to behave “official” or “normal” (= flirting). At this moment, I spat my piece that I wanted more with her, I wanted a relationship and spend time with her, I reiterated that I had feelings and so on. She then said that she had also feelings but “just not enough to drop her “C”… I was a bit gutted, and I asked her to just tell me that she was in love with him and we could stop the conversation. She didn’t want to and just said that “she kind of said it before”. She said at the end that “she thought she took her decision” and to “not waste my time”.

This was kind of November last year, and then until March, we were going to drinks every second week, without escalation until I met a girl (28F - say M) in March. But this was kind of a long distance-relationship and I was clear there was something going on on my side, so were more just enjoying the moment when I could travel to her city. I don't know if it relaxed me a bit or if K has a crazy intuition, but we had our first kiss mid-march. Then things escalated drinks after drinks, with kissing and foreplay but no actual sexual act because she told me she wanted to wait for us to be together for that. Since then, we kiss every night out and spend the nights together (until 4AM when she takes a cab back home). Between April and June, my brother and plenty of friends came to visit me and she wanted to meet all of them, and we spent plenty of nights out all together (even with some of her friends) VERY close. She asked them plenty of personal questions about me.

At this point, it is sure C was fully aware of the situation and it looked to me that she wanted him to break up. In June she told me she would soon have a conversation to end things with him. However, she pulled back and that became too much to me, and I accepted a job back in my country of origin. She was absolutely devastated when I told her, during my farewell party at the job she was physically weak, and was the only one sitting the whole time. The later evening, we kissed the whole night (possibly seen by all colleagues) and were behaving as a couple. I decided to end things totally with M.

Since I moved back in my country of origin, mid-September, we exchange 50/60 messages a day. She acknowledges that she is love with me and that we will be together one day. I came to visit her twice since and we kissed in front of all colleagues and behave as a couple, spending the nights together. She admitted to our common friends that her relationship is in crisis and a total mess. She told me that she is unhappy with C. The last time, she told me that she is very sick (she mentioned heart issues before and possible hormonal problems that could lead to infertility). She is telling me now to be patient (but not waiting for her so it's puzzling) while she deals with her health issues. She says that she knows that she is denial about us, and that the situation can't last like this. Also, that this situation (me coming from time to time) is not making her happy neither.

This week I finally reached my breaking point and I told her that I just don't get it, that we are in love and she should just break up and let's be together and deal with all the situation together. She stalled a bit and I told her that we should have a break in our communications, which she agreed but told me we should discuss the next time I come in her city.

If she breaks up with him, I am totally ready to go back there and support her with her health and rest. Here, I have to mention that this decision to break up is not easy for her, as she lives at his place and I will make her fired from her job (she got through him) and the side jobs she has as freelancer (she got them through him too). I know he is fully aware of the situation between K and me, which makes things even stranger to me. I know they are not in an open relationship.

My friends in my country tell me to stop this but our common friends in her country tell me to keep pushing as it's obvious that we are crazy in love.

I know it's bad to pursue a taken woman, but I am totally convinced that she is the love of my life and that she is in love with me too. I don't have the feeling she is playing games, more that she is afraid of making the jump... I see from the experience with M or even the dates I have in parallel of this story that I am not interested anymore in other women.

Does any one has similar experience, or heard something similar, or has any advice ? I am feeling so close but so far at the same time...

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
shorten title

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

I broke up with my GF. She reacted very emotionally, refusing to discuss the topic,  She said that for her we are friends. she lives at his place and I will make her fired from her job she got through him

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately she is simply cheating and unwilling to leave her BF. Please move forward in your new location. You're wasting time on a very confusing situation and questionable woman. 

[d0nnivain]

Give up.   If this mutual flirtation was going on for a few weeks maybe keep pushing.  But once you ended your relationship & she didn't, that was your cue to leave.  She's picking him.  He deserves better but try to remember if she did this with you, she will do it to you.  

[BaileyB]

If she ever was to break up with him, this is not a woman that I would ever trust or with whom I would ever chose to be in a relationship. 

Dating someone in the open like this (at work) while still in another relationship is a really terrible thing to do. I know, you think she is justified - because she loves you more and she’s demonstrating that by showing her affection in public, somehow making it “official” - but to me, it shows really poor judgment and character. I wouldn’t ever chose this person for myself… 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

31 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

My friends in my country tell me to stop this 

Listen to your friends. She lives with her BF.  Unfortunately you're wasting your time. 

[glows]

Hold on a second here. Are you saying that by leaving her fiancé she will be jobless and depending on you? You say he’s influential or got her her current job and other freelance work and give the impression here that it sounds like all of that can be taken away. It sounds like she can’t support herself without her partner C. Please clarify this as it would weigh heavily on a person’s decision to leave. It means also what she should have been doing was creating more opportunities for herself professionally instead of sticking her head in the sand and living in denial as she said to you. Wasting her time getting involved with an emotional affair with another man.

After this first question^ , a second q, does she have any children?

From what I’m hearing this isn’t a simple decision of moving from one relationship to another. Her identity and professional life seems so fragile and dependent on the man she is with and now you are expecting her or wanting her to give all that up and her existing comforts to be with you just so she can stay at home unemployed and start all over again?

[Tagasok]

Yes, she will lose her job and opportunities as freelance. However, I have and common friends have other opportunities so she would find something else but of course she would be a period of transition. Where I could support her as I have a very comfortable income. Her BF doesn't understand her willingness to work and is telling her that she doesn't need to do it. I know she doesn't particularly love her job, but more the atmosphere there (= our common friends). However, I am not on the same line than her BF, I think she is not the kind of person happy without a job, but she has creative talents, that I encourage her to explore. Why not part-time her hobbies (edit: when I say hobbies, it is activities that could lead to a steady income with the right development), part-time in our industry, everything is possible. Long story short, he has a power of nuisance on her professionally but it is manageable and I told her that I would have her back. What is puzzling to me is that she says that she is an independent woman but I guess she is in denial for that too.

They don't have kids. They are together for 7 years, engaged for 5 but not married ("she does not believe in it", unclear why she got engaged then). It's unclear to me if why they don't have kids, if they are not really trying or if there are fertility problems involved.

Regarding the other messages, I fully understand that my chances are not high. But I have this crazy idea to keep playing the small chance that she is confused and lost...

  

Edited November 6, 2023 by Tagasok

[stillafool]

20 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

They are together for 7 years, engaged for 5 but not married ("she does not believe in it", unclear why she got engaged then).

It isn't going to be easy to pull her away from a 7 year relationship.  If she's engaged he's asked her to marry him and she accepted.  She just wants something extra on the side (you).

Edited November 6, 2023 by stillafool

[Tagasok]

I understand but technically after 5 years of engagement she doesn't show any intention to actually marry him.

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, Tagasok said:

I understand but technically after 5 years of engagement she doesn't show any intention to actually marry him.

Maybe it's him that won't marry her.  If she's cheating with you, that's a wise decision on his part.

Edited November 6, 2023 by stillafool

[Acacia98]

37 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

I understand but technically after 5 years of engagement she doesn't show any intention to actually marry him.

It's kind of consistent with the way she's treating you, though, isn't it? She does just enough to keep the other person interested and emotionally attached but doesn't actually take the plunge. She's done it to him, and now she's doing it to you.

You've made the mistake of thinking this guy is your competition. He's not. He's actually an illustration of the best role you can hope to play in this woman's life: a fiance whom she won't marry and whom she is cheating on.

In everything you've written here, you haven't clarified what exactly you're looking for. What sort of relationship do you want? Marriage? Kids? Does this woman actually want the same things as you?

[NuevoYorko]

I'm sorry but that all sounds very sordid.  Good luck building anything solid and true on such an unstable base. 

 

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

I understand but technically after 5 years of engagement she doesn't show any intention to actually marry him.

That's ok. They still live together long term. Although you didn't imagine the flirtation, that she is going to forsake everything and everyone for you is unrealistic. That you ended things with your GF was your decision and you had your reasons. However this is not her situation. 

[Tagasok]

48 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I'm sorry but that all sounds very sordid.  Good luck building anything solid and true on such an unstable base. 

 

It is obviously not a situation I was rooting for, especially as I was in a stable relationship and never had any drama relationship or infidelity story before meeting her. On the other hand, I never felt such connection in my 4 previous LTRs.

[Tagasok]

49 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok. They still live together long term. Although you didn't imagine the flirtation, that she is going to forsake everything and everyone for you is unrealistic. That you ended things with your GF was your decision and you had your reasons. However this is not her situation. 

I reluctantly stopped my relationship because I could not stand me having an emotional affair for 2 months and cheating on the person I believed at that time would be my life partner.

it is indeed difficult for me to imagine her having a happy relationship while this stuff escalated during 1 more year but I suppose I am very naive...

She told me she is unhappy in her relationship since she met me. Indeed, she might be lying but I still believe her. If she is lying to me and has no intention to leave him since day 1, then the other contributor is right saying that the situation is sordid and I would have frankly some difficulties understanding why a human being would inflict that to someone who declare his feelings in the most honest way possible.

[Tagasok]

2 hours ago, glows said:

Hold on a second here. Are you saying that by leaving her fiancé she will be jobless and depending on you? You say he’s influential or got her her current job and other freelance work and give the impression here that it sounds like all of that can be taken away. It sounds like she can’t support herself without her partner C. Please clarify this as it would weigh heavily on a person’s decision to leave. It means also what she should have been doing was creating more opportunities for herself professionally instead of sticking her head in the sand and living in denial as she said to you. Wasting her time getting involved with an emotional affair with another man.

After this first question^ , a second q, does she have any children?

From what I’m hearing this isn’t a simple decision of moving from one relationship to another. Her identity and professional life seems so fragile and dependent on the man she is with and now you are expecting her or wanting her to give all that up and her existing comforts to be with you just so she can stay at home unemployed and start all over again?

Yes, she will lose her job and opportunities as freelance. However, I have and common friends have other opportunities so she would find something else but of course she would be a period of transition. Where I could support her as I have a very comfortable income. Her BF doesn't understand her willingness to work and is telling her that she doesn't need to do it. I know she doesn't particularly love her job, but more the atmosphere there (= our common friends). However, I am not on the same line than her BF, I think she is not the kind of person happy without a job, but she has creative talents, that I encourage her to explore. Why not part-time her hobbies (edit: when I say hobbies, it is activities that could lead to a steady income with the right development), part-time in our industry, everything is possible. Long story short, he has a power of nuisance on her professionally but it is manageable and I told her that I would have her back. What is puzzling to me is that she says that she is an independent woman but I guess she is in denial for that too.

They don't have kids. They are together for 7 years, engaged for 5 but not married ("she does not believe in it", unclear why she got engaged then). It's unclear to me if why they don't have kids, if they are not really trying or if there are fertility problems involved.

Regarding the other messages, I fully understand that my chances are not high. But I have this crazy idea to keep playing the small chance that she is confused and lost...

[NuevoYorko]

39 minutes ago, Tagasok said:

Regarding the other messages, I fully understand that my chances are not high. But I have this crazy idea to keep playing the small chance that she is confused and lost...

In what reality does pursuing a relationship with hopes for a long term future with someone "confused and lost" seem like a positive?

I think your wish is already granted; she is obviously a mess.   Maybe it will pay out for you; who knows, she might dump the boyfriend (or he might dump her, since according to you he knows she's having drunken makeout sessions with a co-worker)  and you can be there to pick up the "confused and lost" shards.  

How do you build on that?

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Tagasok said:

They are together for 7 years, engaged for 5 but not married ("she does not believe in it", unclear why she got engaged then). It's unclear to me if why they don't have kids, if they are not really trying or if there are fertility problems involved.

To say there are red flags here is an understatement. What do you want for your life - do you want to get married and have a family? Or do you really want a relationship with a dependent partner who doesn’t believe in marriage and possibly can’t have children? I ask because most people would say these things are important. Don’t fool yourself - they may not be married but they are in a committed relationship. And, how she shows up in this relationship is EXACTLY how she will show up for you. 

You seem to be ignoring some pretty big red flags here because your feelings are seriously clouding your judgment. If you continue to pursue this woman/wait for her to untangle from her relationship, you risk wasting a lot of time, money, and disappointment/pain. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Tagasok said:

I could not stand me having an emotional affair for 2 months and cheating on the person I believed at that time would be my life partner.

What does it tell you about this woman that she hasn't done the same? 

Trying to have a relationship with someone like her who lacks a moral compass is a fool's errand, dude. She is living in Fantasy Land where she has little care or consideration for anyone but herself. 

It is naive of you to believe this will become a great relationship - or a relationship at all. 

[mark clemson]

She explored what she sees as a potentially better option, but in the end has chosen the "status quo" of her current life.

She chose practical considerations over feelings (this is something that happens all the time). Believe it's time for you to do the same. Despite how you may feel right now, there are other suitable partners out there and hopefully these won't come "burdened" with fiancees they don't seem to want to stay loyal to but end up choosing in the end...

If she is financially beholden to this fiancee of hers, I suspect one of these days she is going to end up in QUITE the bad situation, at least if she keeps up with this behavior. I don't see that as "karma" but more naivete/stupidity. And by then she will no longer be your concern anymore anyhow...

GL.

Edited November 6, 2023 by mark clemson

[MsJayne]

I smell a toxic person. She's using her partner for financial reasons, and she's using you to feed her enormous ego. You've broken up two relationships in the hope that she'll reciprocate, you've been very honest in stating your intentions, and you've been pandering to her indecision, (selfishness), for over a year. She's not confused or lost, she's just bad news. 

[glows]

10 hours ago, Tagasok said:

Yes, she will lose her job and opportunities as freelance. However, I have and common friends have other opportunities so she would find something else but of course she would be a period of transition. Where I could support her as I have a very comfortable income. Her BF doesn't understand her willingness to work and is telling her that she doesn't need to do it. I know she doesn't particularly love her job, but more the atmosphere there (= our common friends). However, I am not on the same line than her BF, I think she is not the kind of person happy without a job, but she has creative talents, that I encourage her to explore. Why not part-time her hobbies (edit: when I say hobbies, it is activities that could lead to a steady income with the right development), part-time in our industry, everything is possible. Long story short, he has a power of nuisance on her professionally but it is manageable and I told her that I would have her back. What is puzzling to me is that she says that she is an independent woman but I guess she is in denial for that too.

They don't have kids. They are together for 7 years, engaged for 5 but not married ("she does not believe in it", unclear why she got engaged then). It's unclear to me if why they don't have kids, if they are not really trying or if there are fertility problems involved.

Regarding the other messages, I fully understand that my chances are not high. But I have this crazy idea to keep playing the small chance that she is confused and lost...

  

All of this is just very sad and I have overwhelming sadness reading about her. She’s 31 now, her relationship has been for 7 years meaning she was in her early/mid 20s when she got with her fiancé. She looked to him for support and depends on his contacts to support herself and likely didn’t have the time to develop herself independently or professionally before this relationship and things all reached a “crisis” point now. I don’t know when she moved in with her bf but wonder if she had any experience living on her own before or whether she moved in with him straight from her parents house. I think about when I was in my early/mid 20s and that’s just a kid. Even at 31 to have depended this long on a man is crippling especially when the relationship is on the rocks. AND according to her she is having severe health issues. I don’t know how much of that is to garner extra sympathy and keep you wrapped around her finger to feel sorry for her and how much is the truth. She is on the brink of a complete and total breakdown if not already and this isn’t a person who needs YET ANOTHER GUY to bother her about a relationship. 

The way I read this is this woman desperately needs good friends in her corner and a new start in life. Not a boyfriend. And certainly not a guy she’s refused several times - you. She’s not interested in dating you. She probably knows she has nothing to offer and is way too broken to start a new relationship. It sounds like she does feel remorse and does feel guilty but she’s so buried deep in this hole she’s looking for distractions to take away the horrors of her life.

Have you looked at “white knight syndrome” - look it up. With you you had someone healthy and a relationship with trust until you broke it cheating for two months. You left it all behind for someone who needs “fixing” and help. I don’t know why that is or why you’re doing this. It may be something to start with if you’re looking to do some soul searching and figuring out whether you’re wasting your life away and your time.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Tagasok said:

  If she is lying to me and has no intention to leave him 

Unfortunately, this is most likely the situation.  If they live together 7 years, etc, she's not going to throw it all away for a fling.

It's understandable you were smitten but perhaps with time, when you recover from your own breakup, things will settle down and become clearer. 

[Tagasok]

Thank you very much for your answers that I really take into consideration, even if of course it's not what I wanted to hear ahah.

As for my previous relationship, we had some struggles before K appeared, mostly logistics (paperwork and so on) and end of honeymoon phase. So maybe it would have finished anyway. Somehow we faced the same situation with K (my relationship was 4 years old and hers 6 and more unbalanced I would say but still). It looks like we are making different choices about it... 

What is  worries me is that it's not like I stayed passive and just kept pursuing her during all this time. We had multiple episodes where I pulled back for some time but at the end we always get back in touch. The thing that worries me the most is that I can not get interested by other women, and especially this kind of second relationship with a very beautiful and attractive girl, I could not find the strength to establish the connection and let go K. The paradox is that it did not boost my confidence at all but quite the opposite. At the end, this period with someone was not way more fulfilling that the ones where I was trying to give up, single.

It's difficult to just ignore the opinion of our common friends to keep pushing or her "we will be together one day but for now I need space/a bit of time" messages...

Thank you for all the answers !

[Tagasok]

PS: I am totally aware that I am acting immaturely but it's tough to fight these feelings, it's the first time this is so strong for me