Navigating Family and Real Estate

[Alpacalia]

I am going to be purchasing a real estate investment property with my father in the area that I live in. His girlfriend, whom I have had a good relationship with, is a realtor. They both live out of state. Well, I was going to use my own realtor as I am friends with one in my area and now my father's girlfriend is interjecting and saying she will handle getting a realtor for us in my area. I feel uncomfortable with this idea because I feel like his girlfriend is trying to insert herself into our business. Of course, I look at it as she has good intentions, but I am not sure I want her to be this involved.

Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about my father's girlfriend trying to help with this process? She is already looking up places and said she will send them to me.

Even though the property will be jointly owned (between myself and my father), my father said he intends to leave it to me when he passes away. I'm not exactly sure how that works and that's not my concern, I just don't know if I am being unreasonable with regard to my father's girlfriend's participation.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Alpacalia

[ShyViolet]

Does your father live with his girlfriend?  How long have they been together?

Have you expressed any of these concerns to your father and if so, what does he say?

[Alpacalia]

2 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Does your father live with his girlfriend?  How long have they been together?

Have you expressed any of these concerns to your father and if so, what does he say?

Yes, he lives with her. They have been together a little over a decade now.

I did express initial concern to my father, I said that I understand she is just trying to be helpful but that I didn't understand her involvement but that it's between them. He just said "I know....". I'm not sure what "I know" means.

[stillafool]

No you're not being unreasonable.  I wouldn't want her involved either.  Tell her immediately that you prefer your own realtor but thanks for the offer.   So what if she lives with him.  It's none of her business.

[Lotsgoingon]

No, you are not wrong. Trust your instinct. You're quite right.

You're putting up your own money. Then insist on  your own realtor. If dad says he will only do the deal with his gf as the realtor, then pause and think about it. But do not let her boss you around. It's absurd that gf wants to insert herself into finding a realtor out of town. That's crazy. Realty is highly local from what can I tell. Even a chain with a good reputation in city X may not know what's happening in city Y. 

BTW: let's be blunt here. I don't mean to insult you or your family, but you're asking a question about family. You are doing a deal with a parent, so time for you to grow up and be a full adult. Dad has been irresponsible and lazy to allow his gf to insert herself like this without first talking to you. I don't mean to insult your dad. Love and romance can distort people's thinking. But you want to go into this deal as a real adult, then you need to see dad's weak spot/blind spot the way a real adult unrelated to him would see that weak spot.

So really, the problem here is dad. He should have called you and made his position clear. A clear position might be, "Hey Mary (my fake gf name) thinks she knows some good realtors in the area. She wants to recommend one"--which means Dad is not saying you should take her recommendation. Or he needed to make clear that he wants Mary inserted in this. Did Dad do any of these things? Any chance dad is cognitively incapacitated somewhat, and he's with a younger gf who can exploit him? All these issues should be front and center in your mind. It's really hard for kids to admit when parents start to cognitively struggle, but it's the most loving thing we can do, because we can then think about how to protect them against scammers and manipulators of all kinds.

And frankly, you should have talked to dad to clarify all this. But talking honestly to parents about their love partners is really hard and awkward, no matter how old we are. When your dad say "I know," why didn't you ask him to clarify wtf that means?! This is an adult deal. Step up! Or else don't work with dad on a financial deal if you're not going to be an adult. 

Now the easier path is just for you to talk to gf and not dad and say, "I have found a realtor I am comfortable with. I am going to proceed with that person."

And then keep your eyes open for whether gf is controlling or manipulating dad. This is a definite red flag. 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Wiseman2]

31 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I am going to be purchasing a real estate investment property with my father  His girlfriend is a realtor. 

Unfortunately if he's an investor and his GF is his realtor, you may have to go along with him or bow out if you don't want to do business with her.

She's not "interjecting", your father picked her to do this. Please speak candidly with your father about your objections to his GF handling it or bow out of the deal.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Wiseman2

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

No, you are not wrong. Trust your instinct. You're quite right.

You're putting up your own money. Then insist on  your own realtor. If dad says he will only do the deal with his gf as the realtor, then pause and think about it. But do not let her boss you around. It's absurd that gf wants to insert herself into finding a realtor out of town. That's crazy. Realty is highly local from what can I tell. Even a chain with a good reputation in city X may not know what's happening in city Y. 

BTW: let's be blunt here. I don't mean to insult you or your family, but you're asking a question about family. You are doing a deal with a parent, so time for you to grow up and be a full adult. Dad has been irresponsible and lazy to allow his gf to insert herself like this without first talking to you. I don't mean to insult your dad. Love and romance can distort people's thinking. But you want to go into this deal as a real adult, then you need to see dad's weak spot/blind spot the way a real adult unrelated to him would see that weak spot.

So really, the problem here is dad. He should have called you and made his position clear. A clear position might be, "Hey Mary (my fake gf name) thinks she knows some good realtors in the area. She wants to recommend one"--which means Dad is not saying you should take her recommendation. Or he needed to make clear that he wants Mary inserted in this. Did Dad do any of these things? Any chance dad is cognitively incapacitated somewhat, and he's with a younger gf who can exploit him? All these issues should be front and center in your mind. It's really hard for kids to admit when parents start to cognitively struggle, but it's the most loving thing we can do, because we can then think about how to protect them against scammers and manipulators of all kinds.

And frankly, you should have talked to dad to clarify all this. But talking honestly to parents about their love partners is really hard and awkward, no matter how old we are. When your dad say "I know," why didn't you ask him to clarify wtf that means?! This is an adult deal. Step up! Or else don't work with dad on a financial deal if you're not going to be an adult. 

Now the easier path is just for you to talk to gf and not dad and say, "I have found a realtor I am comfortable with. I am going to proceed with that person."

And then keep your eyes open for whether gf is controlling or manipulating dad. This is a definite red flag. 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Yes, I agree I need to have a more thorough conversation with my father about this. I didn't clarify further when he said "I know" because I could hear his girlfriend in the background and I rather have a conversation with my father one on one. But you're right, I have to ask him some tough questions because I definitely don't feel comfortable with this at all.

[Alpacalia]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately if he's an investor and his GF is his realtor, you may have to go along with him or bow out if you don't want to do business with her.

She's not "interjecting, your father picked her to do this. Please speak candidly with your father about your objections to his GF handling it or bow out of the deal.

Thank you.

She won't be the realtor handling this transaction. She currently resides out of state with my father and has committed to locating a local real estate agent for us in the area where we intend to buy the property. It's important to note that the area in which my father and I plan to purchase the property is not where she practices real estate.

[Weezy1973]

If your father’s girlfriend refers you to a realtor and the sale goes through she likely gets part of the commission. That’s at least how it works here where I live. 
 

If you have a local realtor who you already trust, just stick with them. As far as leaving you the property, where I live if you’re joint on the title (and mortgage if there is one) then regular rights of survivorship apply and the property just transfers to the survivor. 
 

I’d be careful as the girlfriend might be trying to get part of your dad’s estate. If they’re common law married (again this depends on the jurisdiction) it can get messy.

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

If your father’s girlfriend refers you to a realtor and the sale goes through she likely gets part of the commission. That’s at least how it works here where I live. 
 

If you have a local realtor who you already trust, just stick with them. As far as leaving you the property, where I live if you’re joint on the title (and mortgage if there is one) then regular rights of survivorship apply and the property just transfers to the survivor. 
 

I’d be careful as the girlfriend might be trying to get part of your dad’s estate. If they’re common law married (again this depends on the jurisdiction) it can get messy.

Yeah, I initially thought she'd get a piece of the commission, which I'm totally cool with.

But it started feeling like she was getting more involved than I expected. My father and I were working with a lender, and then she jumped in saying she and my dad would find a lender.

Then she mentioned the real estate agent and sending me listings.

That's when I was like, "Wait a minute, I'm in this process too."

It's my father and my money going into this so of course I want a say too in who I choose to work with and what areas to look for.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

And don't be afraid of some tension around gf. I can tell just by your hesitancy that you are a kind person. So you are in no danger of being insanely rude. So don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and definitely keep an eye on gf.

There are so many stories of kids in your position who don't act while gf steps in and gets elderly dad to sign over properties and accounts and change the will and stops key medications and all of that. And in these cases, the victims were passive like your dad. Even if dad gets a little pissed, know that you are doing your job in keeping an eye on his wellbeing.

Good luck!  

p.s.

Definitely poke around dad's finances. Definitely keep an eye open and don't be afraid to look at his bank account, even behind his back to see what's going on. Make sure this woman isn't having funds diverted to her.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[S2B]

25 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Thank you.

She won't be the realtor handling this transaction. She currently resides out of state with my father and has committed to locating a local real estate agent for us in the area where we intend to buy the property. It's important to note that the area in which my father and I plan to purchase the property is not where she practices real estate.

I wouldn’t have her secure your agent! Find one on your own.

seems like she is looking for any way to get a cut from the sale.

also, IF that agent she suggests doesn’t go well - you may blame her - none of it would be good. 

[d0nnivain]

I'm not sure why you are uncomfortable.  She's dad's long term GF.  She may simply be trying to help by referring you to a realtor she knows.   Be nice & meet the realtor she recommends.  It will keep the peace.  You don't have to use that person but you should meet them.  It's polite.  If the friend shows you a property you will end up owing them a commission but don't have to agree to have that realtor as your exclusive agent.  You can use your friend too.  Just makes sure everybody knows you have two realtors.  

If your issue is you don't want GF knowing your business, then you can't do this deal with dad.  She's Dad's GF & he's gonna tell her no matter what.  

If your issue is you think dad is going to leave his half of the property to GF, make sure when you and dad invest, the deed says that you are joint tenants with a right of survivorship, which means you automatically get the property on the other one's death and this transfer passes outside of the will.  There is nothing about this property for dad to leave to GF if you structure the deal this way.  Talk to a lawyer about this because I have a tendency to mix up tenants in common and joint tenancy.   

[mark clemson]

I'd be careful with joint ownership of property. Every time your dad's GF has a "great idea" that you don't actually like, it's going to be a nuisance to negotiate through. If you're set on going through with this, just be prepared for some (possibly significant) frustrations.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

I'm not sure why you are uncomfortable.  She's dad's long term GF.  She may simply be trying to help by referring you to a realtor she knows.   Be nice & meet the realtor she recommends.  It will keep the peace.  You don't have to use that person but you should meet them.  It's polite.  If the friend shows you a property you will end up owing them a commission but don't have to agree to have that realtor as your exclusive agent.  You can use your friend too.  Just makes sure everybody knows you have two realtors.  

If your issue is you don't want GF knowing your business, then you can't do this deal with dad.  She's Dad's GF & he's gonna tell her no matter what.  

If your issue is you think dad is going to leave his half of the property to GF, make sure when you and dad invest, the deed says that you are joint tenants with a right of survivorship, which means you automatically get the property on the other one's death and this transfer passes outside of the will.  There is nothing about this property for dad to leave to GF if you structure the deal this way.  Talk to a lawyer about this because I have a tendency to mix up tenants in common and joint tenancy.   

Because she has no involvement in the matter; it pertains to my father's and my own finances. That's the reason.

Just for context, back when they first began dating, and I hadn't even met her yet, she obtained my phone number from my father and left me an impassioned voicemail, yelling at me, all because she believed I had shared a photo featuring my father, myself, and my mother on social media. However, it's important to emphasize that even if I had done so (which I hadn't—instead, it was my cousin who posted it and was just sharing an old family photo), why should it matter? 

She extended her apology, and she has been wonderful and caring in many aspects towards me. Since that incident, she and I developed almost like a mother/daughter relationship. She sent me a beautiful hand painted plaque for my birthday, she hand furnished an apartment for me when I moved. She's done many wonderful things. I am not concerned if he leaves her part of the property, she has tons of her own investment properties and she more than likely wont need it.

My Dad does do tons of labor on her investment properties almost overworking himself. My siblings and I initially had concerns about that. But he said he loves doing the labor. He's always been a handy guy, so in a way he is allowing her to put his skills to use. Of course we will never be entirely sure if there is more to the relationship than what meets the eye, but that is ultimately his business.  

So, maybe she is just trying to be helpful with finding us a real estate agent and lender. I also have no issues with her getting a referral fee of any kind. She works very hard and I would love to help her out that way IF the agent that she recommends works out for us and gets us a good deal. 

I just didn't care for how it felt like I was being phased out from the process when I am putting forth the money with my father and he is doing this to ensure his children's financial stability after he is gone. Had she said, would you mind if I referred you to a realtor that I know and trust instead of if you are buying a property you should use this realtor, I would have been more receptive. I mean, this is a financial transaction and I just don't want to go into it blindly.

But maybe you have given me something to think about. And, maybe I am just overthinking things.

Thanks for your input (and thank you everyone too!).

Edited September 13, 2023 by Alpacalia

[basil67]

I wonder if a bit of good old fashioned passive aggressiveness may be helpful here.  "Thanks for that.  Let me look into it"  and then do nothing.

This could be a cultural thing, but I'm a bit confused about booking a realtor.  As a buyer, what is the exclusivity to the agent all about?   Could you do your own searching online and arrange inspections with whoever is selling that property?   It would immediately remove all the discussions with your fathers gf. 

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

..and arrange inspections with whoever is selling...

*the agent who is selling the property

Edited September 14, 2023 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

 I am putting forth the money with my father and he is doing this to ensure his children's financial stability after he is gone. 

Are your siblings in on this deal? Do you want a rental property to manage? Who will take care of that? Renting, maintenance and all of that? 

[d0nnivain]

@Alpacalia

I think this woman left a bad taste in your mouth from the beginning & although the relationship has been mostly repaired you would still prefer to keep the details of your finances from her.  I agree with you that it's none of her business but as dad's long term partner you have to assume dad will disclose the details because she is after all his GF & on paper looks like a subject matter expert.  

 

I would meet her realtor even if you hated how that person came to be.  I would not meet with her lender / mortgage / money person.  That's too much.  But since you are OK with her getting a commission or whatever on the deal unless the person is incompetent give her realtor a shot.  

 

Again, it's going to come down to how the property is titled on the deed that will control how it gets distributed if you or your father pass away. You are smart to want to keep it out of her hands.  But @mark clemsonmakes an excellent point, no matter the ownership you are going to have deal with her opinions & suggestions as long as she's in dad's life.   

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

@Alpacalia

I think this woman left a bad taste in your mouth from the beginning & although the relationship has been mostly repaired you would still prefer to keep the details of your finances from her.  I agree with you that it's none of her business but as dad's long term partner you have to assume dad will disclose the details because she is after all his GF & on paper looks like a subject matter expert.  

 

I would meet her realtor even if you hated how that person came to be.  I would not meet with her lender / mortgage / money person.  That's too much.  But since you are OK with her getting a commission or whatever on the deal unless the person is incompetent give her realtor a shot.  

 

Again, it's going to come down to how the property is titled on the deed that will control how it gets distributed if you or your father pass away. You are smart to want to keep it out of her hands.  But @mark clemsonmakes an excellent point, no matter the ownership you are going to have deal with her opinions & suggestions as long as she's in dad's life.   

Yes, that makes sense. 

It's reasonable to expect that my Dad will share details with his girlfriend, especially considering her expertise in this area. Regardless of their relationship, I'll need to take her opinions and suggestions into account as long as she's involved in my Dad's life. And maybe you're right. Maybe given the initial incident with her leaving that nasty voicemail message when they first started dating might have left a bad taste in my mouth. She also accidentally lost two of my father's vehicles - one when she was traveling out of country with it and they impounded it and never gave it back (in Mexico) and another time she was using his vehicle for work and someone hit her and destroyed the vehicle so my Dad has not had any transportation for quite a while now.

At the same time, it sounds like they are getting along pretty well and have been together for some time now. He's not yet at a stage in his life where he is cognitively capacitated. He's actually pretty fit physically speaking. At the end of the day, I think it's important to be respectful of my Dad and his decisions, regardless of what I may think. He's an adult and is capable of making his own decisions.

I can voice my opinion, but ultimately, the decisions he makes are up to him.

Thanks d0nnivain.

[Alpacalia]

After speaking with my father a bit more the reason for her wanting to find us a real estate agent is because she wants a co-commission. She feels that because my father lives with her and he isn't exactly computer savvy, she is going to be the one helping with all the paperwork, and so she wants to get some sort of compensation for all of her hard work. Which makes sense, at the same time, my Dad has flipped so many real estate properties for her because he knows how to build and fix up a house to sell it for a good return.

I guess my response is that I'm open to her being involved, as long as my Dad is comfortable with it. I will still do some research of my own, perform interviews, and speak to multiple potential real estate agents so that we can make an informed decision that works best for my dad. But ultimately, I can take my Dad's decisions into account and value her contribution and the help she wants to provide, so long as it's not a conflict of interests.

I feel a bit funky now because I have to tell the other realtor I have been working with that we will be going with a different company. All of that aside, I think I understand the situation now and I think it is important to make sure my father is happy and taken care of.

On the semantics of the deed and mortgage, I am going to have my sister look at the paperwork before it's finalized as she is an attorney and will be able to make sure it's all correct and valid.

@basil67I really liked your suggestion!

@Wiseman2I'll handle all the maintenance and cleaning in the property, though if there's a major issue, my Dad will likely lend a hand. I also own another out-of-state property independently, which I've been renting out for several years, so I have some experience managing. One of my siblings will be joining us in the real estate deal, but the other one won't. Although I've been keeping the second sibling informed, they haven't provided much input.

I appreciate everyone's help in helping me consider this from various perspectives.

[FMW]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

After speaking with my father a bit more the reason for her wanting to find us a real estate agent is because she wants a co-commission. She feels that because my father lives with her and he isn't exactly computer savvy, she is going to be the one helping with all the paperwork, and so she wants to get some sort of compensation for all of her hard work. Which makes sense, at the same time, my Dad has flipped so many real estate properties for her because he knows how to build and fix up a house to sell it for a good return.

Couples, whether married or not, do things for each other - without monetary compensation.  It sounds like she's certainly benefited from his unpaid contributions to her investments.

My guess is she probably is used to him allowing her to be involved in all his decision-making, a possessive -maybe even controlling - thing.  Unfortunately for you that means she may exert more influence over things that you share with your dad than you, or anyone, would like.

 I wish you clarity in deciding how to move forward.  

 

 

[d0nnivain]

I suspect the GF doesn't care who pays her the commission.  Ask your realtor what it will take for him to share.  If he gets help from the GF / she earns it & not just on your father's side, that person may want to share rather than get cut out.  

[introverted1]

16 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I'd be careful with joint ownership of property. Every time your dad's GF has a "great idea" that you don't actually like, it's going to be a nuisance to negotiate through. If you're set on going through with this, just be prepared for some (possibly significant) frustrations.

To add to this...  I'd make sure the deed is set up in such a way that if one of you dies, the other automatically inherits the property.  In the US, this is "Joint Tenancy with Right of Survivorship."  This way, the house avoids going through probate (your dad's gf won't have the ability to contest ownership if your dad passes), nor can your dad leave his share to her.  I know he has said that this is not what he plans, but it's best to be protected. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

 I also own another out-of-state property independently, which I've been renting out for several years, so I have some experience managing. 

That's a good thing. Then you must have attorneys you use and trust to draw up all the details with your father since you don't seem to trust his GF.