31 year old virgin

[SurfCity]

4 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

The key is learning to love life now as you are--much like Gaeta described.  Also a lot of time when people set these impossible standards, they BELIEVE they will achieve happiness and success when they reach the goal but that isn't what happens. Let's' say you continue to isolate yourself and lose weight in an unhealthy manner for the next 6 months that it might take. Then you come out of your cocoon ready to try out your new body in the world but if it doesn't go as you suspect it will you might be devastated--because of a lot of things but also what you tied the goal to and how you imagined things going once you reached that. What if not having a girlfriend or social circle, wasn't as tied to your weight as you think it is? All that time would have passed without working on the other stuff, experimenting with all the things that can bring you what you want. On top of that, lots of people who manage their goals this way, slip right back into the previous unhealthy behavior--which we don't want that to happen for you. 

Very very true. 

OP, you actually don't know why you've never dated and are still a virgin at 31, sure you have theories, but you could be wrong.

Smartest thing to do is to work on all aspects of your life that need improvement so that you don't end up with one or two parts of your life that are great and the rest still preventing you from dating. So, that would be a healthy lifestyle (not crash dieting), improving your social skills, making friends and maintaining a social life, and if you're like most guys who've never dated, eliminating or severely reducing the amount of time that you spend on video games and porn. 

[throwaway7865432]

4 minutes ago, SurfCity said:

Very very true. 

OP, you actually don't know why you've never dated and are still a virgin at 31, sure you have theories, but you could be wrong.

Smartest thing to do is to work on all aspects of your life that need improvement so that you don't end up with one or two parts of your life that are great and the rest still preventing you from dating. So, that would be a healthy lifestyle (not crash dieting), improving your social skills, making friends and maintaining a social life, and if you're like most guys who've never dated, eliminating or severely reducing the amount of time that you spend on video games and porn. 

Yea it's mostly theories. I have had opportunities to date and lose my virginity that I have turned down namely due to not being able to attract the sort of partner I want. I'm convinced it's because of my weight but I could be wrong.

And agree, I want to be a well rounded person. Don't spend too much time on video games or porn. I'm more into sports and reading.

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, throwaway7865432 said:

I also don't want to develop an eating disorder but it's so hard to estimate calories. Like I have no idea how many calories I ate today. I had one slice of lemon pound cake (300?), 2 scrambled eggs cooked in vegetable oil (200?) and some roast pork (no skin, only took 2 bites of the rice and beans so maybe 1300?). no idea.

I also obviously want an active social circle. if I ever get married obviously want people at the wedding.

Yeah that's why you need to track at least for a few weeks or a month so you get used to estimating what the calories for what you eat are. AND importantly the QUALITY of your calories...ie lemon pound cake is gonna hit different that scrambled eggs. You might want to try a basic app like myfitnesspal which you can put the calories or items in and it will calculate stuff for you. It's still some work obviously and will change your lifestyle--but that's all the point, including educating yourself. No one would expect you to be able to do this if you don't have or obtain the knowledge. Knowledge is power.  

Here's another tip...try to keep some things simple. What I would say based on what you've said you ate so far today is unless it's once a week (maybe twice), you want to drop the pound cake from your diet. If that's a "breakfast" item for you, keep it simple by changing just your breakfast for a week or two with something that you can be sure is healthy, fuels you, and that you are aware of the calories for.  You can also try in this first week or two, to really structure how you eat without too much concern for what you eat during that time (two schools of thoughts about that but I think it's a good place to start when you have had perhaps a lifetime of bad habits). So the two schools are some people believe in 3 meals a day or some believe in 3 meals and 2 snacks (i won't even get started on Intermittent Fasting--which would confine your eating to a set 4, 6, 8 hour window--to me, based on what you said, it'd set you up for problems in the future in that it's sort of an all or nothing mentality/obsessive etc). I think if you deal with being hungry a lot. Start with 3 meals, 2 snacks and set times for those and don't vary from the times. What you want to do is create a ROUTINE that is part of your new life. 

Another thing with regard to the pound cake or other sweets like that being problematic is that it spikes you blood sugar.There's lots out there now where a calorie isn't totally considered equal when sugar is involved. It starts the whole insulin thing which can lead people to pack on the pounds. If we believe a lot of what top researchers are saying now, they are blaming carbs/sugar carbs/processed food for the obesity and diabetes epidemic. (i would agree that it is stuff to do with that and general inactivity--the body is meant to move).  My best suggestion if you drink soda--of any kind, like regular Coke or even diet coke, drop it immediately. Sometimes people (especially guys) can make that one change and lose a lot.  With other sugary items like pound cake, figure out how to get it down to like 1-2 max a week. Like one treat/one cheat meal. Some people don't like that saying if a person has disordered eating but yeah one indulgent meal a week/two max and still keep it in perspective. If you have sugar cravings from cutting out sugar, they usually go away in 4 days or so. You want to replace with healthier sugars such as from fruit bc that has fiber with it which is good compared to processed stuff.  I think also that you will notice that people who start out breakfast with a sweet like that a lot of time have a big crash and/or are hungry right away again. (that's some of the stuff they are talking about with the insulin reaction). Eggs is a good way to go--mix in vegetables to your scramble. hmmm vegetable oil...I probably wouldn't use that--you can use olive oil spray--it takes the same and is better for you.  See how eating healthy is sort of like a habit makeover? there are so many parts to put in place. Don't be hard on yourself--just think of it like a good challenge. Make over your breakfast, cut out soda if you drink it, and structure your meals is a good place to start for first few weeks. Your weight loss may slow but I'm gonna guess it was going to anyway. 7 pounds a week is a lot--the body pretty much won't keep that up. I'd guess it would slow this week no matter what. So think of it as a kickstart and just go from where you are today.

I think anyone with an "all or nothing" mentality has to work on that part simultaneously, such as let go of the past (ie don't be mad at yourself for how you handled things before or where you are physically right now) and do the work in the present; don't get too freaked out about the future. You have to re-teach yourself to be set up for the future and that is what you are doing.  

oops the structure eating is so you become more conscious of how/when you eat, plan what you are going to eat, stop mindless eating/snacking.  And create a structure which then you can fine tune with what you eat during those meals.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Versacehottie

[SurfCity]

3 hours ago, throwaway7865432 said:

And agree, I want to be a well rounded person. Don't spend too much time on video games or porn. I'm more into sports and reading.

If you like reading, it might be a good idea to join a book club. Try one that meets in person. Most of the members will probably women who are much older than you, but it'll be good practice for you to talk to people that you don't know that well and get rid of that initial shyness that you have when you first meet someone. 

When you do eventually meet someone who you'd like to date, you'll have more to talk about if she asks you what your hobbies are and what you do for fun and maybe you might have a funny story to tell about something that happened in one of the book club meetings. 

And maybe if you're lucky, one of the members might have a cute daughter to set you up with or a son for you to hang out with, so I would start there if I were you. Once you've lost some weight you can join a sports league for adults and keep developing your social life. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by SurfCity

[throwaway7865432]

3 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Yeah that's why you need to track at least for a few weeks or a month so you get used to estimating what the calories for what you eat are. AND importantly the QUALITY of your calories...ie lemon pound cake is gonna hit different that scrambled eggs. You might want to try a basic app like myfitnesspal which you can put the calories or items in and it will calculate stuff for you. It's still some work obviously and will change your lifestyle--but that's all the point, including educating yourself. No one would expect you to be able to do this if you don't have or obtain the knowledge. Knowledge is power.  

Here's another tip...try to keep some things simple. What I would say based on what you've said you ate so far today is unless it's once a week (maybe twice), you want to drop the pound cake from your diet. If that's a "breakfast" item for you, keep it simple by changing just your breakfast for a week or two with something that you can be sure is healthy, fuels you, and that you are aware of the calories for.  You can also try in this first week or two, to really structure how you eat without too much concern for what you eat during that time (two schools of thoughts about that but I think it's a good place to start when you have had perhaps a lifetime of bad habits). So the two schools are some people believe in 3 meals a day or some believe in 3 meals and 2 snacks (i won't even get started on Intermittent Fasting--which would confine your eating to a set 4, 6, 8 hour window--to me, based on what you said, it'd set you up for problems in the future in that it's sort of an all or nothing mentality/obsessive etc). I think if you deal with being hungry a lot. Start with 3 meals, 2 snacks and set times for those and don't vary from the times. What you want to do is create a ROUTINE that is part of your new life. 

Another thing with regard to the pound cake or other sweets like that being problematic is that it spikes you blood sugar.There's lots out there now where a calorie isn't totally considered equal when sugar is involved. It starts the whole insulin thing which can lead people to pack on the pounds. If we believe a lot of what top researchers are saying now, they are blaming carbs/sugar carbs/processed food for the obesity and diabetes epidemic. (i would agree that it is stuff to do with that and general inactivity--the body is meant to move).  My best suggestion if you drink soda--of any kind, like regular Coke or even diet coke, drop it immediately. Sometimes people (especially guys) can make that one change and lose a lot.  With other sugary items like pound cake, figure out how to get it down to like 1-2 max a week. Like one treat/one cheat meal. Some people don't like that saying if a person has disordered eating but yeah one indulgent meal a week/two max and still keep it in perspective. If you have sugar cravings from cutting out sugar, they usually go away in 4 days or so. You want to replace with healthier sugars such as from fruit bc that has fiber with it which is good compared to processed stuff.  I think also that you will notice that people who start out breakfast with a sweet like that a lot of time have a big crash and/or are hungry right away again. (that's some of the stuff they are talking about with the insulin reaction). Eggs is a good way to go--mix in vegetables to your scramble. hmmm vegetable oil...I probably wouldn't use that--you can use olive oil spray--it takes the same and is better for you.  See how eating healthy is sort of like a habit makeover? there are so many parts to put in place. Don't be hard on yourself--just think of it like a good challenge. Make over your breakfast, cut out soda if you drink it, and structure your meals is a good place to start for first few weeks. Your weight loss may slow but I'm gonna guess it was going to anyway. 7 pounds a week is a lot--the body pretty much won't keep that up. I'd guess it would slow this week no matter what. So think of it as a kickstart and just go from where you are today.

I think anyone with an "all or nothing" mentality has to work on that part simultaneously, such as let go of the past (ie don't be mad at yourself for how you handled things before or where you are physically right now) and do the work in the present; don't get too freaked out about the future. You have to re-teach yourself to be set up for the future and that is what you are doing.  

oops the structure eating is so you become more conscious of how/when you eat, plan what you are going to eat, stop mindless eating/snacking.  And create a structure which then you can fine tune with what you eat during those meals.

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense. I downloaded the loseit app to count calories. also joined  the loseit discord group to talk about fitness and diet with other people. Yea the pound cake is once a week thing. I dropped all the soda and juice from my diet as well. And you are right it slowed down this week. Only last .5 lb the past three days. I decided to eat a more normal amount of calories (1500-1800) and go to the gym more often to get over the hump.

[Versacehottie]

32 minutes ago, throwaway7865432 said:

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense. I downloaded the loseit app to count calories. also joined  the loseit discord group to talk about fitness and diet with other people. Yea the pound cake is once a week thing. I dropped all the soda and juice from my diet as well. And you are right it slowed down this week. Only last .5 lb the past three days. I decided to eat a more normal amount of calories (1500-1800) and go to the gym more often to get over the hump.

great! I still think your calories are too low but I think joining the group and getting the benefit of lots of other people's research and experience will be a great thing for you. I'm sure the loseit app probably has a calorie calculator as well. I just keep telling you to take that part seriously because you definitely don't want to slow your metabolism. You will then have to keep an extremely low calorie count to lose anymore weight, maintain and often in spite of all that you will gain. You basically want to control the period in which you are in caloric deficient (like you are now) and then go into caloric maintenance for a while and then you can go back into deficit. Also research reverse dieting. If I get a chance I will try to give you a good link or two about potentially messing up your metabolism by eating too little. On the positive side if you lose weight slower, you are much more likely to keep it off. If you lose it quickly it's more likely to come back and then some. Apart from the body chemistry of that phenomena, I think it's important to consider that you are creating a new LIFESTYLE so it's ok that it takes a while and there are so many other benefits that will come out of it. I just don't think you can rush it.

about the insulin stuff, that is why Ozempic etc is working and people who have weight loss goals but aren't diabetic are using it off label. Idk though if I would ever recommend that for a lot of reasons---I think they will find/are finding out that there are lots of health consequences of utilizing it that way. The point being is that a quick fix (of any kind) is usually going to have a lot of cons--some of which are devastating. Ok good luck!

[Els]

11 hours ago, throwaway7865432 said:

I also don't want to develop an eating disorder but it's so hard to estimate calories. Like I have no idea how many calories I ate today. I had one slice of lemon pound cake (300?), 2 scrambled eggs cooked in vegetable oil (200?) and some roast pork (no skin, only took 2 bites of the rice and beans so maybe 1300?). no idea.

Don't you feel hungry all the time with this diet? I'm a 5'1" woman and I'd be absolutely ravenous if I tried to eat only this all day, lol. The cake especially would lead to a massive sugar crash 1 hr later, for me anyway. Different people obviously have different responses to blood sugar, but I don't think it's a good idea to ever eat just cake for one meal. I mean, your total calories consumed are low, but I can't help but think you're not getting enough nutrition with what you eat, and that you could also trigger "starvation mode" with the hormones that get released with all the blood sugar crashes (basically, that means that your body is going to try to cling on to fat for dear life and not let go).

One of the biggest breakthrough realizations that I made in terms of weight maintenance is that not all calories are equal. If I focus more on eating foods that have a low GI index (the sugar in them is metabolized slowly), and a lot of filling protein and unsaturated fats, it's naturally easier to not overeat. So that's stuff like whole grains, salmon, avo, nuts, etc.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Els

[JTSW]

Honestly your doing great, even if you don't think you are.

You have a goal, a target weight and that's a good thing to focus on.

If you keep waiting for the 'the one' to take your virginity, the woman that you want to spend your life with then the wait will be a long one.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having occasional flings and gaining some experience.

It will help you learn more about women and their needs, and learn more about yourself and what you like.

I'm not saying go out there and have a bunch of one night stands, more like short term flings or FWB's.

You are actually still young with so much promise ahead of you.

Edited September 11, 2023 by JTSW

[JTSW]

12 hours ago, throwaway7865432 said:

I have had opportunities to date and lose my virginity that I have turned down namely due to not being able to attract the sort of partner I want.

This is clearly not working for you so maybe be less picky.

[d0nnivain]

On 9/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, throwaway7865432 said:

 My coworkers are probably laughing at me for being [lonely and fat] behind my back.

They probably aren't.  It's actually worse.  They don't think about you at all. 

I don't know what you look like.  Some of that can be improved. Get a hair cut.  Start working out.  Wear more stylish clothes.  

None of that is the real issue.   If the real life you is anything like this post, there is a black cloud of despair & insecurity hanging over you.  You give off this negative vibe that turns people off.  People are attracted to happy upbeat people & repelled by morose ones.   You need to work on your self esteem.  Get into therapy if you are not there already.  Learn about The Secret and the law of attraction.  Read some books about the power of positive thinking. They should be able to turn your negative & unattractive perspective around.  You need to learn to manifest more good things into your life.  

If you are struggling to count calories, download a fitness app that tracks it for you.  I use My Fitness Pal.  Fitbit has one.  Weight Watchers has one. I'm sure there dozens more.  Find one you like with a community where you feel supported.  Unless you previously had an eating disorder you probably won't develop one by counting calories.  You do have to be careful.  I was anorexic growing up & on my weight loss journey it triggered some old bad habits.  On the diet the system designed for me at my size & weight I was supposed to consume 1,200 calories a day, which is a bare minimum.  I was getting down to 600-900 a day which was dangerous.  

Edited September 12, 2023 by d0nnivain

[Alpacalia]

I really like D's advice and she is absolutely correct in that being mopey all the time and/or negative is a turn off.

Having said that, I am going to be negative here with one thing (haha....):

I am not a huge fan of the concept of positive thinking on the surface.

The concept is akin to telling people "be happy!" Really? Are you going to tell someone that has just lost their job, that they SHOULD JUST BE HAPPY and the sun will shine? No. Albeit, the advice is helpful to transition into a better mental state if applied the right way.

I think the fallacy with the power of positive thinking is that it implies that anything is achievable if you believe hard enough in it which is ultimately false.

It's like saying, oh I just need to will this into existence, when in reality it requires a lot of hard work and dedication. Focus on realistic goal-setting, self-reflection, and a change in behaviour. I would also opt for incorporating more gratitude or mindfulness based approaches that focus on being present in the moment because lets face it, life isn't about trying to always 'make things happen' but really developing the capacity to be with what is.

Where this is challenging is say, people that are stuck in poverty or have suffered a traumatic experience. Because that usually require a much more comprehensive approach that gets beyond the typical ‘positive attitude’ mindset. People in poverty for instance, need to be provided with opportunities to increase their chances of success without simply stating they need to “think positive”.

It is not about burying your head in the sand and pretending that everything is alright, or that small changes alone will lead to bigger changes. Use the setbacks to become stronger and wiser. This may involve reshaping your long-term goals, developing better problem-solving skills and learning to prioritize better.

There is always hope for you.

Being 31 is still young, and it's never too late to get the life experiences that you may have missed out on. Unfortunately, we live in a society that is often judgmental, but don't let that discourage you from getting out there and connecting with others.

Often, taking control of your health is a great way to feel empowered. You're already on the way to getting to a healthier weight; keep focused on that goal and enjoy the journey. There is also the local YMCA, they have great resources and personal dieticians and nutritionists and mentors. Look into making friends and connections with people who really understand you and share similar interests. If possible, try to switch up your environment from time to time and form new relationships.  

Ultimately, finding people who accept you for who you are is key, and you'll be better off in the end.

Be well my friend!

[Els]

I forgot to mention this, but if you have a high disposable income (and at 150k/yr as a single guy with no kids, you probably do), there are a lot of things you can pay for to make your weight loss journey easier. Think of it as investing in your health, perhaps. Sure, people CAN lose weight for cheap, but money makes lots of things easier, and health is no exception.

Off the top of my head, some of the things I can think of are:

• Consult a dietitian who will work with you to create a meal plan that works for you. Currently you are operating off of guesswork and limited knowledge. You COULD spend 40 hours researching and getting a solid plan up for yourself... or a dietitian can do it for you in 30 minutes.
• Buy a meal kit subscription that adheres to that plan. Some of them will deliver fresh food to you on a daily basis and you'll cook them yourself with their recipes, some will deliver ready-made meals. Again, you COULD look up recipes and go grocery shopping regularly, but this makes it a lot more convenient.
• Hire a personal trainer to meet up with you a few times a week. They'll work with you to tailor a workout plan that fits you, they'll give you motivation, and most importantly they'll hold you accountable.
• Buy some healthy desserts, or at least high-quality ones! Yes, I'm still harping on the fact that you ate pound cake for a whole meal. Go to an upmarket grocer and get some exotic fruits that you'd feel excited about trying. Get some good cheese and make a cheese board. Get some high-quality dark chocolate. Or at least go to a patisserie and get eclairs and macarons or something - they're decadent, sure, but they're also a lot smaller in portion than pound cake and you'd feel satisfied with a lot less. Dessert is a splurge, but generally speaking, the higher the quality, the less you'd need to eat to satisfy your cravings, and the more bang you get for your buck (or rather, for the calories gained).

[d0nnivain]

The power of positive thinking is not solely about magical thinking.  You are not a wizard from Harry Potter who can just conjure up something.  

It's more like telling the person who just lost their job that this may be a blessing in disguise because it's the impetus for something new.  For example, after I got fired I was finally brave enough to start my own company partly because I didn't have anything else to lose and there was a program through my state's unemployment system that they gave me money, training & advisors to help launch my new venture.  Years later I ended up as one of the instructors for that program.  

You can't just sit in a room by yourself & wish.  It's about having the confidence to move forward & take the steps necessary to improve. Hard work and effort are a big part of it, which can be particularly difficult when all of your energy is zapped when you are depressed & just want to hide.  

If you only see the bad, that is all you will ever see but if you are looking for the good, you are more likely to find it.  For example, I have been dreaming of writing a professional paper for a few weeks now.  Today I picked up an industry publication & found an ad for a free class on how to do just that.  I have been frustrated about something for some months; yesterday I found a group that is working to fix the thing that is making me frustrated.  I told a colleague about the program this morning because I was having doubts about my qualifications; she was so enthusiastic & thought I'd be perfect for the position.    Those beneficial things happened or were manifest in part because I was subconsciously looking for them.  

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, Els said:

I forgot to mention this, but if you have a high disposable income (and at 150k/yr as a single guy with no kids, you probably do), there are a lot of things you can pay for to make your weight loss journey easier. Think of it as investing in your health, perhaps. Sure, people CAN lose weight for cheap, but money makes lots of things easier, and health is no exception.

Off the top of my head, some of the things I can think of are:

• Consult a dietitian who will work with you to create a meal plan that works for you. Currently you are operating off of guesswork and limited knowledge. You COULD spend 40 hours researching and getting a solid plan up for yourself... or a dietitian can do it for you in 30 minutes.
• Buy a meal kit subscription that adheres to that plan. Some of them will deliver fresh food to you on a daily basis and you'll cook them yourself with their recipes, some will deliver ready-made meals. Again, you COULD look up recipes and go grocery shopping regularly, but this makes it a lot more convenient.
• Hire a personal trainer to meet up with you a few times a week. They'll work with you to tailor a workout plan that fits you, they'll give you motivation, and most importantly they'll hold you accountable.
• Buy some healthy desserts, or at least high-quality ones! Yes, I'm still harping on the fact that you ate pound cake for a whole meal. Go to an upmarket grocer and get some exotic fruits that you'd feel excited about trying. Get some good cheese and make a cheese board. Get some high-quality dark chocolate. Or at least go to a patisserie and get eclairs and macarons or something - they're decadent, sure, but they're also a lot smaller in portion than pound cake and you'd feel satisfied with a lot less. Dessert is a splurge, but generally speaking, the higher the quality, the less you'd need to eat to satisfy your cravings, and the more bang you get for your buck (or rather, for the calories gained).

Excellent post!!! Factor is a meal delivery service that a lot of people seem to be liking. I think in Els great plan above if you did a dietician and meal delivery service that really helps jumpstart everything in a very healthy way.

I agree that with the disposable income you likely have, you should add in a personal trainer as well. It will help with your body composition, muscle gains, and metabolism. 

Another idea as well for dessert is a protein shake. Those taste sweet and you are getting protein you likely need anyway. You can mix in fruit, vegetables, greek yogurt and the protein powder. Not all protein powders are considered equal (in terms of their actual ingredients and how free of metals/additives etc they are) so choose that with some research or ask your dietician beforehand.

[Herkamer63]

First off, there's nothing wrong with being a virgin. I don't know why people think it's so important to go and sleep with other people as soon as they become of age. it doesn't make them better people at all. All it's ever been: bragging rights, and it's not a good one to have when you're sleeping with many different people. Want to know the number people look for when looking for that special someone? The answer: ZERO!!! While certain people are looking for that, they themselves rack up a rather big body count. It's not just women, but also men. Hookup culture's a plague, so don't give in to this idea that you have to go sleeping around with others. You're far more valuable than you realize, so don't think that, somehow, you'll become something more if you do. It actually devalues you in a big way, and if you're looking for a woman, she needs to know if you are truly disciplined enough to not do that.

Which leads me into helping to have women attracted to you. Quick summary of myself, I was well overweight and didn't get many women attracted to me because of that, low confidence, didn't do much, and I was timid. Now, lost all that weight, my confidence has skyrocketed, I took up new hobbies, I'm much more outgoing,  I look better (body and apparel wise), and I feel better. I have goals I want to try and achieve, and it's attracting women. Right now, I'm currently talking and seeing one (kind of), another one who seems like she has taken interest even though she knows that I'm interested in the other, and one other woman had liked me for the past 2 years. There's more women I've been meeting and seem have taken a real liking to me as well, all because I made adjustments in my life.

So how this can help you: inspiration, but not because of me. Rather what I followed is what mattered. What will help is you is the first step, wanting to make the change and executing a plan on how to achieve and maintain it. Next should be hitting the gym and dieting. Once you meet your goal weight, find clothing that not only fits but is also stylish. To help you out, little to almost no plaid flannels, but if you do get any, get good colors, no boring patterns nor coloring. And no skinny jeans, they don't look good period. Slim is fine, so long as they're anything but skinny and that they actually fit your waist size at the belly button, not below. Improve your work habits and really push increasing your personal income. This will establish you're able to do more and can show you're taking care of yourself. Living situation should be irrelevant so long as you're working, paying your bills, and working towards a long term home. And be proud of the work you're in. Not everyone's gonna be a doctor but not everyone with a PHD have interesting stories either. This gives you insight as to what you're in and makes you want to work harder and more efficiently. Find PHYSICAL hobbies to do, like running, swimming, hiking, dancing, kayaking, etc. Playing video games, although nothing wrong with it, doesn't help attracting women (doesn't hurt your chances but nor does it improve it either). You need to actually meet people face to face and be social. Women like it when guys have their own friends to hang out with because they see that you have a life that doesn't revolve around one person. And feel free to take some initiative in planning group outings. Women will see that and like you even more for it because you're being a leader and making decisions with plans attached to them. I couldn't tell you how much the woman I like appreciates it when I'm making the plans because it takes pressure off of her and she likes seeing me take charge. Since doing these things, she has invited me to a few outings that involved her family. Now that I had met them, it feels as if I'm now at the next step. So start taking the lead and let others follow you for a change.

Once women start talking with you more, my piece of advice: DON'T SIMP! There's nothing wrong with giving compliments, but they have to be real and not often when you first start out. They need to like you for you first before ever giving them the "good morning beautiful" spiel. Honestly, I wouldn't even message them every day. I don't because there's no need to. If you're not together and she isn't showing her hand yet, that can wait. YOUR time is valuable, and you can take your business elsewhere if she isn't wanting to talk nor do things with you. If there's someone you're interested in and they're doing things with you, then you can start messaging a little more often. Just don't go overboard. She needs to give back too because she needs to let you know that she's interested in and likes you, not pinning it all on you to do that. She needs to know that you have self respect. That's why it's important to maintain your lower weight, keeping up with better wardrobe, keeping up with your family and friends, your hobbies, your work, YOU are important and YOU are working to become higher value than what you are now. Not only for her and everyone else, but most importantly, for YOU and YOU should be enjoying yourself getting better and helping others around you in the same boat you're in now. Going around and sleeping with whatever moves only devalues you. It's not an opinion, but rather a fact. It creates more chaos when you do. Good women will pick up on when a man shows restraint because it shows discipline and respect.

So don't sell yourself short. I can tell you're a much better person than what you're giving yourself credit for. The fact you're a virgin and not married actually is a good thing because you're saving yourself for that special someone. Don't let your life revolve around bedroom fun because life's much more than that and you just need to put yourself out there and be bold about it. Take it from someone who's been there and understands what you're going through. it's not so much having that experience but rather being with someone that cares about you for you. I get it, but give it time and I hope you take some of what I said to heart because I like to see good people get ahead. Good luck, brother!

[smackie9]

First off change your attitude. That in itself will help you push forward. Secondly, no one is thinking anything about you. I know low self esteem/being anxious, makes us think that people are thinking bad things about us. That's not true...people have their own issues, etc taking up their head space. Lastly, give yourself a break. Don't be so hard on yourself. You know what you need to do, but remember, it's ok to fail along the way, because you and everyone else fails at things...it's just part of being human. 

[Herkamer63]

One other thing I forgot to mention, and this is very unpopular amongst certain men who may follow MGTOW: if you want a woman to be with you, be her friend. Hear me out on this because I'm going to get a lot of heat over this. But let me get this out of the way so that way we're clear because it's important to avoid making the mistakes that so many men are making and to understand that there should balances.

So that we're clear, since you are a man, you should have many male friends. One of which will more than likely be your best friend. We're talking about the guy that's there for you as brother and when you need help in the most dire of situations. Overall, you should have a bunch of male friends. It keeps you being and acting like a guy. Women, despite what some may say, love it when a man is being a masculine man, and when that one sees you with other men, she sees that you aren't out trying to pick up women. Instead she sees you as a man amongst other men being manly. It's simplistic and silly sounding, but trust me, opposites attract. You may like football and she may like arts and crafts, but when two people see things that the other's doing, it peaks their interest. So keep hanging out with other guys as much as possible.

With that said, when getting to know a woman you're interested in, you MUST become friends with her. The reason why so many married couples divorce and why so many couples in general break up is because they were never friends to begin with. Instead they were so fixated on social status and fame or simply to add another head to their body count that they forgot why they were together with that person to begin with. The people doing it just for bedroom fun are some of the main culprits, and, unfortunately, some of them are a part of MGTOW because they don't see women as human beings. They literally see women as sex objects and nothing more. Where, yeah, there are women that are very difficult to trust, that doesn't mean they're ALL untrustworthy. What makes some of these men curious as to why they think this is they also have many good points. Thing is people can have good points with horrible solutions. With every person, there should be a level of not putting all your eggs in one basket. However, if two people like each other and have done things for one and other, trust should begin to develop. It's how friendship goes.

An example, the woman I'm interested in, when I first started to like her was the night we both decided to get friends together. I've known this woman for 2 years but never went after her (thought I was WAY out of my league). When we planned a get together with our group, I wasn't in the dumps but was a little down because another woman I liked and anytime we tried to do something together, things never turn out the way we wanted it. And I had suspicions she may had been talking to another guy. Anyway, this night came and the woman that helped organize our get together arrived a little later because she was at a funeral earlier. We talked for awhile because it had been awhile since we saw each other in person, then we did some karaoke, danced together bought dinks for each one of us to try, then when the night was drawing to a close, our group wanted to move the party somewhere else and she invited me to tag along so I did. Blew the other woman out of the water and I almost forgot all about that one. After that night, my interest in this woman skyrocketed. The next month, we did another group outing and I got her number. Eventually, she invited me to a pub crawl and I took her and her sister to a haunted house. Then I took this woman out for her birthday and she took me out on mine. And we did a few other things in between. We did stuff for each other without even asking and to this day we continue to do so. I met the rest of her family, we're planning on doing more, and, at this moment, we're looking at days to go on our first official date. We've been friends for over 2 years, but since last year, our friendship had grown, we're closer than what we were before, and we have more respect for one and other than what we did before. We're at the point we're saying that we love one and other after we depart.

My point is DEVELOP A FRIENDSHIP FIRST! No bedroom fun is needed nor is moving in with one and other. Do stuff in groups, get to know siblings that are close to her, family members, friends, you should be liking HER FOR HER and NOT THE IDEA of her. At the same time, don't make her the first priority. If she's truly your friend and knows that like her, she'll understand in case if there's thing you need to get done first before you can be with her. Of course, you also need to be patient with her because, believe it or not, she is a human being and has a schedule just like our fellow men. No need to rush anything. The best relationships happen when two people take their time with each other. People want to rush things, men especially, because they're afraid they will lose whatever it is that they want to hold onto. When it comes to finding women, guys try to secure a relationship day one when they meet the women they like. Some force themselves to try and hold hands, hold the women in their hands, sweet talk them, you name it. But most of the time, those women, even though they may think those men are nice enough, have no interest in them. It actually turns them off because those men come off as desperate and needy. If you go in with woman and a small group you have, and a guy who you never met before tries to barge in because he likes the woman you like (typically because of how she looks), doesn't speak to ANY other members of your group (including if he came in with a buddy of his), that's a red flag in which he's not a very good person. That's not only happened to me but many other guys. So don't be like those men who want to be party crashers.

Now, this isn't me bashing on one gender or the other, but, as a guy myself, the state of men as a whole today is not good. When many of them are willing to go as far as simping, derail potential relationships, rush, and simply lie, all in attempts to get women, it gives off a false impression to women that almost all men are like that. Good men and women get the short end of the stick because they usually go into hiding and when they think they found someone, they turn out to be horrible human beings. All of this is more the reason why it's important to have a friendship first. Yes, there's a risk of being friend-zoned, but if that person isn't seeing anyone and has shown signs of interest, even while you two are friends, that person is going to want to do more with you. I'm getting ready to walk in a 5k soon, and the woman I like invited me, and this was without me even mentioning it to her. She wanted me to come. I invited her to a zombie paintball event in October. She wants to go and is doing with me next month. When you're willing to do fun stuff together and not make it purely about romance, the love will grow, and having a good friendship helps greatly.

I know I went on longer than what I did with this, and I apologize, but speaking from experience, I would like for good men to be happy while being to avoid any unnecessary troubles and heartbreaks with no fault of your own. I've been down that road and it stunk, and it pains me to see so many men go through what I had. So I'm really hoping this is helps you out. Before I go, I do want to say this: don't seek out a relationship after you take the steps necessary to improve your life on a physical, mental, and (dare I say) spiritual front. Instead, it'll come to you at time where it's the most unexpected of circumstances. It feels more natural that way and chemistry flows much more smoothly. As I mentioned before, the woman I like, as beautiful as she is, I never went after her until recently. I always thought I was way out of my league. When I first met her and got learn a little bit about her, I thought she was a cool person but never wanted her to feel uncomfortable with me. So we stayed friends and little by little our friendship grew, then that night I mentioned took place. Never expected anything but just to hang out with friends, but, wow, my interest in her jump significantly that night, and since then, we started to become good friends and had moments where it was just us two, having our more intimate moments where we really opened up about each other. She kissed me at one point and told me a bunch of times she loved me. Lets say I helped her celebrate a birthday she never got in nearly 10 years with friends and I put the whole thing on for her. Since then, she's been doing things for me as well. I never would have thought that I would be with a woman like this, but here we are and I'm being invited to her more private family events. So keep your chin up, dude, because once you start turning thigs around, good things will happen!

Edited September 13, 2023 by Herkamer63

[throwaway7865432]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:54 AM, Herkamer63 said:

One other thing I forgot to mention, and this is very unpopular amongst certain men who may follow MGTOW: if you want a woman to be with you, be her friend. Hear me out on this because I'm going to get a lot of heat over this. But let me get this out of the way so that way we're clear because it's important to avoid making the mistakes that so many men are making and to understand that there should balances.

So that we're clear, since you are a man, you should have many male friends. One of which will more than likely be your best friend. We're talking about the guy that's there for you as brother and when you need help in the most dire of situations. Overall, you should have a bunch of male friends. It keeps you being and acting like a guy. Women, despite what some may say, love it when a man is being a masculine man, and when that one sees you with other men, she sees that you aren't out trying to pick up women. Instead she sees you as a man amongst other men being manly. It's simplistic and silly sounding, but trust me, opposites attract. You may like football and she may like arts and crafts, but when two people see things that the other's doing, it peaks their interest. So keep hanging out with other guys as much as possible.

With that said, when getting to know a woman you're interested in, you MUST become friends with her. The reason why so many married couples divorce and why so many couples in general break up is because they were never friends to begin with. Instead they were so fixated on social status and fame or simply to add another head to their body count that they forgot why they were together with that person to begin with. The people doing it just for bedroom fun are some of the main culprits, and, unfortunately, some of them are a part of MGTOW because they don't see women as human beings. They literally see women as sex objects and nothing more. Where, yeah, there are women that are very difficult to trust, that doesn't mean they're ALL untrustworthy. What makes some of these men curious as to why they think this is they also have many good points. Thing is people can have good points with horrible solutions. With every person, there should be a level of not putting all your eggs in one basket. However, if two people like each other and have done things for one and other, trust should begin to develop. It's how friendship goes.

An example, the woman I'm interested in, when I first started to like her was the night we both decided to get friends together. I've known this woman for 2 years but never went after her (thought I was WAY out of my league). When we planned a get together with our group, I wasn't in the dumps but was a little down because another woman I liked and anytime we tried to do something together, things never turn out the way we wanted it. And I had suspicions she may had been talking to another guy. Anyway, this night came and the woman that helped organize our get together arrived a little later because she was at a funeral earlier. We talked for awhile because it had been awhile since we saw each other in person, then we did some karaoke, danced together bought dinks for each one of us to try, then when the night was drawing to a close, our group wanted to move the party somewhere else and she invited me to tag along so I did. Blew the other woman out of the water and I almost forgot all about that one. After that night, my interest in this woman skyrocketed. The next month, we did another group outing and I got her number. Eventually, she invited me to a pub crawl and I took her and her sister to a haunted house. Then I took this woman out for her birthday and she took me out on mine. And we did a few other things in between. We did stuff for each other without even asking and to this day we continue to do so. I met the rest of her family, we're planning on doing more, and, at this moment, we're looking at days to go on our first official date. We've been friends for over 2 years, but since last year, our friendship had grown, we're closer than what we were before, and we have more respect for one and other than what we did before. We're at the point we're saying that we love one and other after we depart.

My point is DEVELOP A FRIENDSHIP FIRST! No bedroom fun is needed nor is moving in with one and other. Do stuff in groups, get to know siblings that are close to her, family members, friends, you should be liking HER FOR HER and NOT THE IDEA of her. At the same time, don't make her the first priority. If she's truly your friend and knows that like her, she'll understand in case if there's thing you need to get done first before you can be with her. Of course, you also need to be patient with her because, believe it or not, she is a human being and has a schedule just like our fellow men. No need to rush anything. The best relationships happen when two people take their time with each other. People want to rush things, men especially, because they're afraid they will lose whatever it is that they want to hold onto. When it comes to finding women, guys try to secure a relationship day one when they meet the women they like. Some force themselves to try and hold hands, hold the women in their hands, sweet talk them, you name it. But most of the time, those women, even though they may think those men are nice enough, have no interest in them. It actually turns them off because those men come off as desperate and needy. If you go in with woman and a small group you have, and a guy who you never met before tries to barge in because he likes the woman you like (typically because of how she looks), doesn't speak to ANY other members of your group (including if he came in with a buddy of his), that's a red flag in which he's not a very good person. That's not only happened to me but many other guys. So don't be like those men who want to be party crashers.

Now, this isn't me bashing on one gender or the other, but, as a guy myself, the state of men as a whole today is not good. When many of them are willing to go as far as simping, derail potential relationships, rush, and simply lie, all in attempts to get women, it gives off a false impression to women that almost all men are like that. Good men and women get the short end of the stick because they usually go into hiding and when they think they found someone, they turn out to be horrible human beings. All of this is more the reason why it's important to have a friendship first. Yes, there's a risk of being friend-zoned, but if that person isn't seeing anyone and has shown signs of interest, even while you two are friends, that person is going to want to do more with you. I'm getting ready to walk in a 5k soon, and the woman I like invited me, and this was without me even mentioning it to her. She wanted me to come. I invited her to a zombie paintball event in October. She wants to go and is doing with me next month. When you're willing to do fun stuff together and not make it purely about romance, the love will grow, and having a good friendship helps greatly.

I know I went on longer than what I did with this, and I apologize, but speaking from experience, I would like for good men to be happy while being to avoid any unnecessary troubles and heartbreaks with no fault of your own. I've been down that road and it stunk, and it pains me to see so many men go through what I had. So I'm really hoping this is helps you out. Before I go, I do want to say this: don't seek out a relationship after you take the steps necessary to improve your life on a physical, mental, and (dare I say) spiritual front. Instead, it'll come to you at time where it's the most unexpected of circumstances. It feels more natural that way and chemistry flows much more smoothly. As I mentioned before, the woman I like, as beautiful as she is, I never went after her until recently. I always thought I was way out of my league. When I first met her and got learn a little bit about her, I thought she was a cool person but never wanted her to feel uncomfortable with me. So we stayed friends and little by little our friendship grew, then that night I mentioned took place. Never expected anything but just to hang out with friends, but, wow, my interest in her jump significantly that night, and since then, we started to become good friends and had moments where it was just us two, having our more intimate moments where we really opened up about each other. She kissed me at one point and told me a bunch of times she loved me. Lets say I helped her celebrate a birthday she never got in nearly 10 years with friends and I put the whole thing on for her. Since then, she's been doing things for me as well. I never would have thought that I would be with a woman like this, but here we are and I'm being invited to her more private family events. So keep your chin up, dude, because once you start turning thigs around, good things will happen!

I have more questions about this advice. Is there a private message function on this website where I can ask you something?

[d0nnivain]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:51 AM, throwaway7865432 said:

I have more questions about this advice. Is there a private message function on this website where I can ask you something?

You have to be a member for some time with a certain post count to PM.  The details are in an FAQ somewhere.  

Otherwise you can pay to be a premium member & get PM capabilities.  

[Wiseman2]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:51 AM, throwaway7865432 said:

I have more questions about this.

Definitely stay away from manoshere sites including incels, PUA and MGTOW. These are hate groups that prey on lonely men who sometimes feel like outcasts. They recruit people with rhetoric and further anyone's despair.

Trust your friends and family and try quality dating apps in addition to real life ways of talking to and meeting women. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Wiseman2

[throwaway7865432]

12 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Definitely stay away from manoshere sites including incels, PUA and MGTOW. These are hate groups that prey on lonely men who sometimes feel like outcasts. They recruit people with rhetoric and further anyone's despair.

Trust your friends and family and try quality dating apps in addition to real life ways of talking to and meeting women. 

I will. I got burned badly by a woman who claimed to be my friend today but I understand that there are plenty of good women in the world and not all are as bad as this one.

[SurfCity]

1 hour ago, throwaway7865432 said:

I will. I got burned badly by a woman who claimed to be my friend today but I understand that there are plenty of good women in the world and not all are as bad as this one.

Why don't you tell us about it? Maybe you're overreacting? Maybe you made some missteps? This forum is anonymous so why not get impartial opinions on what happened? 

Edited September 19, 2023 by SurfCity

[Versacehottie]

8 hours ago, SurfCity said:

Why don't you tell us about it? Maybe you're overreacting? Maybe you made some missteps? This forum is anonymous so why not get impartial opinions on what happened? 

Totally agree^^^^

OP, here's the thing, getting "burned" by someone today can have valuable lessons regardless, like all experiences. Also I think that sometimes people who have sat on the sidelines for whatever reason, tend to catastrophize things, which puts them in a state where they become even more risk-averse.  So how you characterize events has very important meaning because what your internal thoughts and beliefs are will direct the actions you take, are willing to take or willing avoid in life. So IMO it's important to get realistic outside feedback about this event with her. 

*Also just a reality check--if you are trying to change significantly from who you are today, you will be up against probably many more experiences where you might tend to feel deflated or whatever negative emotion. I think it's important that you learn how to manage those things coming into your life and deal with some rejection or things not going your way.  It's almost a fantasy to believe that the best looking, most fit, successful guys don't deal with some disappointment as well.  Their "bounce back" is better, ie their resilience, and that is why they can keep going and keep believing in themselves to do what must be done to achieve what they are trying to achieve. That is why it's important to analyze some setback you've had to learn how to correctly process disappointments.