I'm a total neat freak. Boyfriend is very messy. Are we incompatible?

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, sadkoala said:

He does have positives that have kept me in the relationship for this long. He treats me very well. He's honest, loyal, affectionate, passionate, funny, and smart. 

What about maturity and respect? You don't have that now, you won't have it if you choose to move in with him.

He’s not “a bit of a slob.” He’s very, very messy, and at present he’s more interested in finding ways to describe his internal relationship to mess/distraction than he is in changing his habits, seeking support, or reevaluating his coping strategies.

Regarding your part, you seem quite concerned about being perceived as a "mother," and are inadvertently limiting your impact on the relationship by pre-emptively guaranteeing him that you won't expect many changes from him.

On the flip side, maturity and respect are built on trust and mutual respect — which I’d hazard are sorely lacking in this situation. Respect is a two-way street, and it doesn’t come naturally or magically. Notwithstanding his protestations, it’s not mature or respectful — it’s suboptimal (at best). Cleaning one’s teeth (for example) is a perfectly ordinary and reasonable task — and yet it’s not happening here.

Being concerned that if you move in with him, his mess will overwhelm you is perfectly justified. It appears unlikely that he will suddenly change his ways concerning not cleaning up after himself, leaving you with two options - clean up for him, nag or beg him to do it - or hire a cleaner.

Take this seriously, and reassess your plans to live together in a few months, given that he has yet to show a willingness to address a problem that is causing you obvious distress.

I don’t envy your position here, and the best thing I can say to you is that the answer to “Should we move in together” is a definitive “no” — at least if you are asking for advice on this particular dilemma. This relationship needs time (and likely specialist intervention) to mature — and for your intrinsic dignity to be respected.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Alpacalia

[sadkoala]

42 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

What about maturity and respect?

Thanks for commenting. I agree there's a lack of maturity and respect in the relationship... I have a lot of sympathy towards my boyfriend (due to his crappy parents/upbringing, compared to my very fortunate upbringing), and I think this sympathy has made me become too much of a pushover in the relationship

[ShyViolet]

2 hours ago, sadkoala said:

Maybe that's why I stay in a relationship that is objectively not good for me

So what do you plan on doing about this?  

[ShyViolet]

59 minutes ago, sadkoala said:

I have a lot of sympathy towards my boyfriend (due to his crappy parents/upbringing, compared to my very fortunate upbringing), 

You really need to stop making excuses for him.

[sadkoala]

2 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

So what do you plan on doing about this?  

Well I told my boyfriend I wasn't ready to move in yet, and he initiated a break (he was really upset that I wasn't ready). We're limiting communication for the time being. I'm also going to start seeing a therapist this week to discuss all these issues...

[sadkoala]

2 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You really need to stop making excuses for him.

I'm finding this very difficult. His upbringing was truly awful (absent father, mother with addiction issues). I feel like he was set up to fail in life, and I can't help feeling so bad for him. I on the other hand was raised by two loving parents who supported me every step of the way. I think I just feel so guilty that I was blessed and he wasn't, and this makes it hard for me to not make excuses for his bad behaviour... If you have suggestions on how I can stop thinking this way, I'm all ears  

[basil67]

You stop thinking this way because he now knows what's acceptable to you (and to the rest of society) and CHOOSES to not change.  

If your parents didn't teach you about deodorant, and a kind friend told you that you needed it, I bet you'd listen to them.  There is absolutely no reason that he cannot do the same.

[ShyViolet]

59 minutes ago, sadkoala said:

I'm finding this very difficult. His upbringing was truly awful (absent father, mother with addiction issues). I feel like he was set up to fail in life, and I can't help feeling so bad for him. I on the other hand was raised by two loving parents who supported me every step of the way. I think I just feel so guilty that I was blessed and he wasn't, and this makes it hard for me to not make excuses for his bad behaviour... If you have suggestions on how I can stop thinking this way, I'm all ears  

His past and his bad childhood is not your issue and not your problem to solve.  You don't stay in a relationship with a person out of "feeling bad" for them.  That's completely dysfunctional.  A self-respecting person has a set of requirements that they look for in a partner... basic things like, let's say, practices good personal hygiene, is financially responsible and has a stable job, is intelligent, is respectful, etc. etc.  It's YOUR business to make sure that any person you choose to date is a quality person who you can be proud of and who is up to basic standards.  It's NOT your job or your business to play therapist for some guy who has major issues.

Having had bad parents is no excuse for a lot of this stuff, I'm sorry.  I had really awful parents, and so have a lot of people.  But at a certain point in my 20s I took responsibility for myself and my growth as a person.  

He did you a huge favor by initiating a "break" (although I generally think "breaks" are BS.  Either you are officially broken up or not).  You should take this opportunity to distance yourself from the relationship so you can work on yourself and not let yourself get caught up in a situation like this again.  And it's really good that you are going to therapy.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, sadkoala said:

. I on the other hand was raised by two loving parents who supported me every step of the way.  

Please talk to trusted friends and family about this. Be honest about the manipulation, poverty, filth, and living with his mother. There's no reason to allow this manipulation and parasitism. Pity is not a basis for a relationship.  

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, sadkoala said:

His upbringing was truly awful (absent father, mother with addiction issues). I feel like he was set up to fail in life, and I can't help feeling so bad for him

This is not a good reason to stay with someone who cannot function as an adult. 

Many people have terrible upbringings, but at some point, they take responsibility for themselves and rise above their raising. This guy isn't even capable of the very basics, such a personal hygiene.That isn't about bad parenting for a man who's nearly 30. That's a problem with him. 

It's a good thing you two are spending time apart. It might help you to see this sitation more clearly, and eventually extricate yourself from it. 

[Alpacalia]

11 hours ago, sadkoala said:

I have a lot of sympathy towards my boyfriend (due to his crappy parents/upbringing, compared to my very fortunate upbringing), and I think this sympathy has made me become too much of a pushover in the relationship

Understandable. Empathizing with him is understandable, but empathizing with him does not provide him with license to act in a way that is detrimental to you (or himself).

You need to differentiate between compassion and codependency.

I think it is good that the situation has been nipped in the bud now and that you are already looking into the deeper issues that have been brought to the fore. You deserve a boyfriend that is able to take responsibility for his own feelings and behavior.

It's perfectly fine to empathize with him, it is not alright to become enmeshed in his suffering or ignore your own needs in order to simply appease him.

[sadkoala]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the comments and am taking them to heart. Hopefully therapy will help me fully let go of this situation

[mtnbiker3000]

18 hours ago, sadkoala said:

 I'm also going to start seeing a therapist this week to discuss all these issues...

Perfect. This is exactly what should be done for your emotional health and growth.

And this "I've always been overly afraid of hurting people's feelings in general" needs to be addressed in a major way. My guess is the reasons behind this probably are a cause of the cleanliness obsession too. I don't think you have to become a KAREN overnight, but you 100% need to put yourself at the top of the list and stay there!

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, sadkoala said:

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the comments and am taking them to heart. Hopefully therapy will help me fully let go of this situation

That's great. Just remember you don't have to let anyone move in with you. It's also perfectly normal to expect appropriate hygiene and decent living quarters and financial self sufficiency.

If you are inclined to be charitable, that's ok in the outside world. But it's not ok when if comes at your expense such as parasitic manipulative people trying to exploit that.

What you could do is volunteer. This may refocus things appropriately. For example an animal shelter, an environmental project or anything else close to your heart. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Wiseman2

[basil67]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:28 AM, sadkoala said:

Well I told my boyfriend I wasn't ready to move in yet, and he initiated a break (he was really upset that I wasn't ready). We're limiting communication for the time being. I'm also going to start seeing a therapist this week to discuss all these issues...

Were you honest about the reason why you weren't willing to move in with him?  

[sadkoala]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Were you honest about the reason why you weren't willing to move in with him?  

Yes and no. I told him I was worried we may be incompatible and that we may argue a lot about household chores once we live together... but I didn't get into detail about his lack of cleanliness (to spare his feelings).  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, sadkoala said:

Yes and no. I told him I was worried we may be incompatible and that we may argue a lot about household chores once we live together... but I didn't get into detail about his lack of cleanliness (to spare his feelings).  

I like your tact.  But honesty is what will help him in the future

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, sadkoala said:

but I didn't get into detail about his lack of cleanliness (to spare his feelings)

This is where I believe you need a voice. 

You don't need to be unkind to him, but I don't think it's helpful to pretend that this isn't a problem. You've tiptoed around him for too long. It's okay to let him know you are deeply concerned about his personal hygiene and that cleanliness is a basic expectation not only in relationships, but life in general. 

[MsMamma]

Hi OP! 

My past has seen me want to be a 'fixer' for people with problems too. 

Something that has helped me change the way I think of this in terms of making sure I don't shoulder the guilt from not helping is this: 

 

-No matter what life throws at us, we have a choice. Be a victim, or be victorious. Our bad experiences in life can hold us back, or be the fuel that makes us determined to succeed despite our shitty experiences. That is up to the individual to fight for their own life. 

 

-You cannot help someone who won't help themselves. If someone wants change in their life, the only way to succeed with change is to do the work themselves. Those who rely on others to change their life fall down again and again, and they end up disappointing the person who it trying to help. 

-Your lovely upbringing... makes your fortunate. But it doesn't make you responsible for taking on other people's issues.

- there's a massive difference between empathy and sympathy

- it's not your job to replace somebody's parent

 

- you have needs in a relationship too and you deserve the best... 

[sadkoala]

7 hours ago, MsMamma said:

Hi OP! 

My past has seen me want to be a 'fixer' for people with problems too. 

Something that has helped me change the way I think of this in terms of making sure I don't shoulder the guilt from not helping is this: 

 

-No matter what life throws at us, we have a choice. Be a victim, or be victorious. Our bad experiences in life can hold us back, or be the fuel that makes us determined to succeed despite our shitty experiences. That is up to the individual to fight for their own life. 

 

-You cannot help someone who won't help themselves. If someone wants change in their life, the only way to succeed with change is to do the work themselves. Those who rely on others to change their life fall down again and again, and they end up disappointing the person who it trying to help. 

-Your lovely upbringing... makes your fortunate. But it doesn't make you responsible for taking on other people's issues.

- there's a massive difference between empathy and sympathy

- it's not your job to replace somebody's parent

 

- you have needs in a relationship too and you deserve the best... 

Thank you, MsMamma. Your thoughts are very helpful :')

[sadkoala]

UPDATE: The "break" is now an official breakup. Boyfriend ended the relationship because he said he couldn't keep anxiously waiting for me to invite him to live with me. He also said that if I loved him as much as he loved me, I would've invited him a long time ago. I kept telling him that me not feeling ready doesn't mean I don't love him, but he didn't believe me... I think he truly believes I don't love him anymore (which isn't true at all)

[ShyViolet]

14 hours ago, sadkoala said:

. but I didn't get into detail about his lack of cleanliness (to spare his feelings).  

You are not going to be able to have a healthy relationship in the future until you get over your fear of communicating with a partner.  You basically stayed in a bad situation "to spare his feelings" and kept all your misgivings about it to yourself.  That is not how a healthy relationship functions.  Sometimes we need to have difficult conversations.  

He did you a huge favor by ending this.  What if he had been the opposite, what if he didn't want to break up?  Then you would still be in a relationship with him?  Would you know how to get out of this yourself?

[sadkoala]

1 hour ago, ShyViolet said:

You are not going to be able to have a healthy relationship in the future until you get over your fear of communicating with a partner.  

He did you a huge favor by ending this.  What if he had been the opposite, what if he didn't want to break up?  Then you would still be in a relationship with him?  Would you know how to get out of this yourself?

I agree that strong communication is absolutely necessary in relationships. I hate to admit it, but I think being with him made my fear worse. Early on in our relationship, he warned me that he turns into an "a**h*** that's not fun to be around" in arguments and that I should therefore pick my fights wisely i.e. "don't start an argument unless it's really important". I've seen this "a**h***" side of him before and it's dreadful. He's not physically abusive by any means, but he becomes a total jerk (starts yelling, swearing, rolling his eyes, scoffing, etc.)... I definitely kept more things to myself throughout the relationship because I didn't want to see this awful side of him anymore.

I think you're right that he did me a favour... It's definitely easier for me to have been dumped than to dump someone else.  I wish I had more of a spine..

[mtnbiker3000]

1 hour ago, sadkoala said:

He's not physically abusive by any means, but he becomes a total jerk (starts yelling, swearing, rolling his eyes, scoffing, etc.)... I definitely kept more things to myself throughout the relationship because I didn't want to see this awful side of him anymore.

 

Sounds like a real Prince...

[basil67]

2 hours ago, sadkoala said:

I agree that strong communication is absolutely necessary in relationships. I hate to admit it, but I think being with him made my fear worse. Early on in our relationship, he warned me that he turns into an "a**h*** that's not fun to be around" in arguments and that I should therefore pick my fights wisely i.e. "don't start an argument unless it's really important". I've seen this "a**h***" side of him before and it's dreadful. He's not physically abusive by any means, but he becomes a total jerk (starts yelling, swearing, rolling his eyes, scoffing, etc.)... I definitely kept more things to myself throughout the relationship because I didn't want to see this awful side of him anymore.

I think you're right that he did me a favour... It's definitely easier for me to have been dumped than to dump someone else.  I wish I had more of a spine..

Oh my goodness.  His warning to you should have been a dealbreaker.  Him being such a rude jerk should have been a deal breaker.  And of course you should have been frank about his cleanliness and if he didn't change, that should have been a dealbreaker too.

Please please address this in therapy.  Life can be so much better than this